GoodguyJoel

Hello everyone,

Since my last thread was closed, again, lots has happened. This time (or for the last week or so), I have somewhat stood back and tried to take control of what I can in my own life. Unfortunately, my Aex has not gotten any better, but only worse. I have been hearing out the step-father because he feels isolated, and him and the mother do not know what to do.

Since my last post on "alcoholic fiance left me for another, richer guy" her family, for whom she has been staying with since back, has now realized that she has been drinking every day. They have found many hidden bottles of wine, a few bags (from boxes) of wine under the bed, and have tried to get her moving towards some sort of program/detox/rehab. These attempts have been met with hostility and overt denial.

The last I talked to him was yesterday when he called me to tell me the mother came home to find bottles everywhere, and her passed out and unresponsive. The mother called the ambulance, and they took her to the ER (from what I know). They were going to try to get her into detox, and this all seemed like it was really going to happen. The step father told me she was drinking mouthwash, bitters, and anything containing alcohol by this point, and that even after their attempts to remove everything from the home, including money, she somehow still went and got alcohol. This is so incredibly serious at this point, and I felt I needed to hear the step father out.

So, as of last night, I thought this was what was going on...she was going to go to detox...etc. This morning, her best girlfriend (the one I describe in my thread before) texted me that she is asking for places to stay (that she is "not ok anymore"), and has asked a few other girlfriends. The best girlfriend replied "you know I love you but I wont have you drinking in my house and especially not around my kids. When you are serious about getting sober I'm here." I told her that it was said with love, and that I support her in saying this. She was warning me to NOT TAKE HER IN. Which I agree with. The only thing is, if she does call...what should I say? I still love this person, I don't love the addiction, and it is very clear to me that there are two separate people inside battling it out (metaphorically of course, or maybe not!)

I am wondering if any of you have pointers on how to handle such contact with a person. This is my ex-fiance of only a month and 3 weeks. It appears she hasn't reached out because she doesn't want me to know it is getting so bad...her family is giving her the boot, and her best girlfriends wont take her in. She hasn't ran away back to michigan because I found out the other guy got dragged back into his own addiction again, and probably can't do this with her again. If she could, she probably already would have run back...but she hasn't which in my eyes means that bridge is burned (even if she wont admit it yet, plus what kind of future does she expect to have if day one out of rehab they both went right back to it? Hid this from everyone, and is a totally inorganic way to meet someone, just my opinion...good luck with a holiday dinner of "heres my girlfriend from rehab who the minute we were together we got back into drugs/alcohol, oh btw both familys resent us now for doing this!". This grandiose thinking goes hand in hand with the severity of the abuse of alcohol. This is why I think she may eventually reach back out to me when desperate enough...

So, how would any one recommend I handle this? I could not answer, and just leave it be...or I could answer and say some strong/meaningful things about how "look at your life a year ago, and look at it today...is this where you want to be?" Say this with love and seriousness, and promote getting serious help.

Any ideas, I fear this moment is drawing nearer. Thanks everyone in advanced.

hopeful4

Look. Anyone in the throes of addiction this badly is not going to hear you anyways. If she calls it will be b/c she is looking for an enabler. I suggest that you do not answer, and that you advise Stepdad and mom to seek out a counselor and Alanon. You really are not in a place to be their support system.

I say this gently b/c I know you are still hurting, and I am only saying this b/c you are seeking it out.

Big hugs.

SparkleKitty

IF she calls, and asks you for a place to stay, give her your honest answer. What the girlfriend said was a pretty good response.

Please do not build this up as an opportunity to Say the Perfect Thing to Get Her to Change. She knows her life is falling apart, she is not choosing to do anything meaningful about it at this time.

GGJ, there are no magic words. Please continue to take care of yourself so that if and when she contacts you, you will know the right thing to do for YOU.

BAW81

"She was warning me to NOT TAKE HER IN. Which I agree with. The only thing is, if she does call...what should I say?"

It sounds like you know exactly what is going on and if you truly agree with her friend then DO NOT ANSWER. Block her number. Lock your door.

Protect yourself.

Also, you should think about how you will handle it if she never does reach out to you. I imagine from your previous posts that in the event she never reaches out, that would cause you a lot of hurt.

I hope you're still seeing your therapist and exercising and doing things for you because that is the most important thing.

CentralOhioDad

Hey Joel,

You're still quite enmeshed with her, through her family and friends, and I think it's holding you back, still. That being said, I say just block her number, ad tell almost-father-in-law that you need to move on with your life, that you feel for what they are going through, but that you need your on space and time. Same things to her friends.

I think that anything you might say that to YOU is meaningful/strong is going to fall on deaf ears. She needs/wants an enabler, a caretaker, someone who will not put up resistance. She's alienated rehab boyfriend, her family has had enough of her, and her friends are pretty much done with her. Nothing you do or say is going to mean squat to her at this point, unless you tell her you will 'help' her - and I think you know well enough by now that you can't do that, especially if she's sinking even lower.

Probably not what you wanted to hear, but you asked for thoughts.

COD

CentralOhioDad

I thought my response would be the first, and everyone else jumped in while I was typing mine, and pretty much gave you all the same answer!

FireSprite

Without a very clear sense of personal boundaries already established, I would honestly block her number/email/etc until I was strong enough in my conviction to handle it, one way or another.... then continue on in my own recovery. And again, I'd stop all contact with her family & friends. THEY are keeping you enmeshed & YOU are signing up for it.

This is a perfect example of how we Codies DO sometimes have the ability to control things from our side of the street simply by Opting Out of the Drama. What can you possibly expect to contribute for her when you are lost yourself? How can you save her in ways her other family & friends are not? IMO, she needs people to stop jumping in front of her consequences & softening her fall if she ever has a chance of saving herself. Give her the dignity of finding her own bottom.

tomsteve

So, how would any one recommend I handle this? I could not answer, and just leave it be...or I could answer and say some strong/meaningful things about how "look at your life a year ago, and look at it today

welp, if you go back and read your own replies in your last thread, you will see you already thought you would have strong/meaningful words that would make her change.
and look where she is now.
so, you do say it and she does want help. then what?

i was sinking pretty deep into alcoholism. my sons' mother stopped by to have a talk with me about how the alcohol was effecting my relationship with my son and he was seeing it.
first civilized conversation we had. i heard her out and agreed. she got done talkin and i said,"im heading up tot he store for a 12 pack. need anything?"


how i recommend handling it is how probably everyone else is going to recommend- dont answer the call.

FireSprite

As an aside - this is something we struggle with tremendously on this side of the forum..... the idea that our Qualifiers have EVERY RIGHT to drink themselves to death if that is their desire.

Not a terribly popular thought. Not an easy concept to wrap your mind around, especially in the earliest days of codie-recovery, but that doesn't stop it from being Absolute Truth.

This thread is GOLD:

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ght-drink.html (Your alcoholic has the right to drink.)

Seren

Hello Joel,

I am sorry to hear that things have become so much worse for your former fiancee. What her girlfriend said to her is pretty spot on. Also, "No" is a complete sentence, as I have learned.

And believe me when I say that I would love it if heartfelt and meaningful words had the power to change the trajectory of my stepson's life. It has never worked for me through letters, phone calls, and face-to-face conversations. Unless and until every option has been closed off for her to continue to drink and deny the problem, she will continue to drink and deny the problem.

Please take good care.

AnvilheadII

i love the old saying: Save your breath to cool your soup.

GoodguyJoel

Everyone,

Thank you for the responses thus far. It appears as though some of you have encountered this in a variety of different ways. Thank you firespirit for providing the link regarding the right to drink. This idea was previously presented to me and I didn't truly understand it before, but I do take it seriously now. I get that people have every right to destroy their lives and hurt everyone involved along that path (once described to me a s hurricane of the advanced addict). It doesn't mean the pain gets any less though, or the thought of seeing her being buried doesn't completely make me fall apart. One might say, you allow these ideas to affect you, but I guess I am that person. I do have empathy for the suffering she is self-inflicting, and look upon it with saddened eyes. When I read a previous poster's thread about losing his fiance due to a bender of 10 days, I never thought at that point that this may become part of my life. I don't know how severe it is, but the duration of heavy drinking, and now/again she is resorting to things that just contain alcohol, but never were intended to be drank. Alcohol is poison already, but the mixtures of say...mouthwash...has to be taking an extreme toll on the body. This scares me.

I know it is her choice, and anyone who has confronted or tried to elude to getting real help is met with hostility of the pre-contemplative stage of change. She seems to be stuck there now for some time...I expected much differently out of a person I knew as smart. I just never expected it to get this far, especially after seeing her brother-in-law die due to heroin overdose. But if that can't wake a person up... then why should I expect love, or tough love, or any words to do it.

It is just so dam frightening, and I would find it hard to live with myself if I didn't do something. This is why I presented the question of what to do. I did step back for a while and not talk with friends or family, but I did take the call and received the texts recently because even though we are separated (ex and I), we were all in this together before, and I know my recovery may depend on true no contact, but its hard to leave these people I care for and love alone, or isolated. I wont be forgetting that the step-father mentioned to the mother that they are now seeing what I was dealing with for over a year straight...and it is by far NOT A JOKE. I think I will likely reach out to the step father this evening and tell him that him and his wife need to attend Al-Anon, and maybe guide them to this site as well. I did mention it to the mother once before, but I have no idea if she took it upon herself to visit. I understand though that when the heat is on the pan, it is hard to do anything else when the meat is burning, and you are just trying to put it out (odd but true analogy). I think this is where they are with her.

As for what I will do, she hasn't reached out yet...and as one response said, she may not. I think it is extremely likely that she doesn't want me to know she sunk even lower. I know from many people I have talked with since that have gone through detox or rehab, that many times they are angry with loved ones or friends after it, and that feels like the treatment I'm getting. Even her actions after rehab or during seem like some meager attempt at revenge...to the only one who would have stood by and promoted finding serenity in her life. I didn't force her into these detox/rehabs, I simply said you need real help, help I can't provide.

She still negates this real help, and negates or denies the problem within herself. I know she is quickly running out of options. I am still just working to keep my life going, and actually make it more the way I want it. But that love for this other person deep inside her (the non-alcoholic one) keeps me hoping and wanting a good life for her. This also means I am questioning my involvement, to be or not to be. So far, when I detached entirely for a period, life was no better, and when attached, life was no better. I know it may be too soon to see any real progress, but with the situation the way it is, I still think I should prepare one way or the other, or even both, and take it at a gut level when or if it happens. I know she probably thinks the bridge between us is burned, but I just can't shake the feeling that we aren't done. Call it a premonition or etherial connection or whatever, I just don't...and in actuality maybe I'm just a fool. Regardless, please keep posting so I can explore all options. Thank you all again.

atalose

I say this gentle………..or maybe she hasn’t reached out to you because you are her ex, and not part of her life anymore. Maybe you are not renting the space in her head like she is in yours.

CentralOhioDad

There is one thing on which I would like to comment, and maybe it's because I'm cynical and suspicious, I feel this way:

I don't think (the non-alcoholic one) exists anymore. In my thinking she is, and always will be - an alcoholic. Maybe a bad analogy, but that's like saying you want the non-murderer back in a person who killed someone, that person is gone.

Not saying that people can't reform and turn from evil/bad choices, but that new definition is what they are going forward. From what I've read here on this Forum, she will be fighting the battle and learning a new way of living FOREVER. That is, if she decides to take that path, which by the looks of things, she's not currently on that path.

We all hope, pray, fantasize, beg for our A's to get healthy. None of these will do it for them, only they can reach that state, on their own. I know that you are still holding on, wishing, hoping, etc., but are you moving forward toward a better life for yourself in the meantime? That's what concerns me.

Maybe I'm just bitter and cynical.

COD

GoodguyJoel

atalose and COD,

I agree with you both. Particularly with atalose, I have pondered this a long time. I would just find it hard to believe she can just wipe me away that easily, but I am only human and can be wrong. I mean it has only been almost two months...even with non-alcoholics it is less than likely that people would just separate without thinking about the other. This coming from many professionals about break ups, where when you spend every day, sleeping, eating, spending almost all free time, sex, smiles etc with a loved one, it isn't easy when that is just gone for anyone. Men and women handle the loss differently, and women are more intuitive to handle the emotion by moving on. But again, this situation is mine, and I can't go through every detail, and even if I did, I am sure I wouldn't represent it to a point where all would agree. It just is a night and day difference.

You may be right though, and I may just have a really hard time admitting it (I still cant as I type this). But this may lead to CODs point, that she is just a different person. That is what I mean when I mentioned this before...It seems the alcoholic has taken over. I would venture to say a 85%-98% that she is the alcoholic, and maybe that small other portion is the original her. This being said from her family and friends as well, not just me.

But lets please stay on the contact issue, its not that I don't want to discuss the other factors, I just dont want it to stray too far, and the thread gets closed down like last time. If you have comments you want to make to me directly, I am happy to receive and respond via private message/email. And trust me, I do appreciate the other comments, I just was wondering about what to do in this particular case...

No contact or contact? Do I answer, not answer? Do I reach out to her? etc...

Sasha1972

If the ex-GF reaches out to you and asks you to take her in ... I suggest remembering that "No" is a complete sentence in itself. This was a really important revelation for me. You don't have to prepare a speech or work out what are the right words that might make her think differently or justify your position or remind her of your past together and your concern for her. You have the option to just say ...

"No, I'm afraid I can't do that".
"No, that's not possible".
"No, I can't help you with that".
"No, that's not going to happen".
"No, I'm not willing to do that".
"No, that's not acceptable to me".

...and keep repeating those over and over until she realizes that you really do mean it.

From what you have said, it sounds like she is never going to be the person who stopped drinking because she heard some hard truths or loving concern from you. You are probably completely irrelevant to her future as an addict, as unpleasant as it is to contemplate this.

Sasha1972

(Statements like this:

I know she probably thinks the bridge between us is burned, but I just can't shake the feeling that we aren't done. Call it a premonition or etherial connection or whatever,

make me worry a bit about how much time you are spending thinking her thoughts for her. You may miss her terribly [the former non-alcoholic version of her], and that may be giving rise to thoughts of etherial connections. It sounds like grief is being channeled into wishful thinking, which is completely understandable, but probably not very realistic).

CentralOhioDad

No contact, no answer, definitely do not initiate contact.

My 2 pennies' worth.

COD

hopeful4

I think you see some dream that you can rescue her and she will be the person she was before. That is sad b/c she will never be that same person again. You cannot rescue a person who does not rescued. If she does reach out, it will be b/c she is looking for an enabler. Eventually the Stepdad will have enough, and the Mom will have enough, and they will kick her out. She will be looking for a soft landing, and that is when the phone will ring.

I am sorry to be so blunt, but that is how addiction works. It's a very selfish and hurtful disease.

FireSprite

If you want it broken down to the most basic level?

No - do NOT contact her.
No - do NOT answer her calls.

DO contact the rest of the friends & family members & say something to the effect that, "I know you're all very concerned for her well being but I need you to understand that continuing to be involved in any conversation about her struggles is incredibly TOXIC FOR ME & I need to draw some boundaries & ask you to stop coming to me with this information. I want to be able to preserve our relationship if possible but if you can't respect my wishes on this, I'll have to limit my contact with you as well - for MY OWN GOOD, until I get to a healthier place, emotionally."