What to do when the A runs out of options, and may contact you
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
One might say, you allow these ideas to affect you, but I guess I am that person. I do have empathy for the suffering she is self-inflicting, and look upon it with saddened eyes.
i get the feeling ya think people here havent been affected the same way.
hope im wrong,but it feels that way
i get the feeling ya think people here havent been affected the same way.
hope im wrong,but it feels that way
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 109
SparkleKitty,
I understand that, considering she was a very bright girl. She may not have the formal education, but was brilliant in ways I could never imagine. Yet, she still fell prey to the vice of addiction.
I'll mention one other thing that came up often in my previous thread just to be clear. I may be getting a doctorate, but that by no means I am smart. The one thing I have learned in all of this education is to be aware of how little one truly knows. I never flaunt my degrees, hell I filed away my diplomas, and have always tried to be humble in everything regarding that. I get asked lots about it and am happy to discuss it (I am guessing it is just interesting to other people), but I don't just go out of my way to say "I am becoming a Dr. of Biophysics!!!" I am guessing we talked about it sometimes in the thread because I do apply logic and reasoning in life, but I am human, and definitely have an emotional side that is a large part of who I am. I am not foolish enough to think I can outright fix a person this deep in addiction, but I am asking more from the emotional side to others what they have experienced by reaching out, or not reaching out, or taking that call.
I didn't know what angle to take your last comment sparkle, but I wanted to address this in case anyone is thinking I am cocky. Now, back to the question at hand...Thanks everyone for continued support.
I understand that, considering she was a very bright girl. She may not have the formal education, but was brilliant in ways I could never imagine. Yet, she still fell prey to the vice of addiction.
I'll mention one other thing that came up often in my previous thread just to be clear. I may be getting a doctorate, but that by no means I am smart. The one thing I have learned in all of this education is to be aware of how little one truly knows. I never flaunt my degrees, hell I filed away my diplomas, and have always tried to be humble in everything regarding that. I get asked lots about it and am happy to discuss it (I am guessing it is just interesting to other people), but I don't just go out of my way to say "I am becoming a Dr. of Biophysics!!!" I am guessing we talked about it sometimes in the thread because I do apply logic and reasoning in life, but I am human, and definitely have an emotional side that is a large part of who I am. I am not foolish enough to think I can outright fix a person this deep in addiction, but I am asking more from the emotional side to others what they have experienced by reaching out, or not reaching out, or taking that call.
I didn't know what angle to take your last comment sparkle, but I wanted to address this in case anyone is thinking I am cocky. Now, back to the question at hand...Thanks everyone for continued support.
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 109
tomsteve
No! I do assume people have been affected similarly, and that is why I return here often, looking for their knowledge and support! This type of thing was so out of my wheelhouse that I am happy to find a place where people can relate and share. In fact, if anyone wants to share their experience, please do so here or in private if that works best for you...honestly anything that you think will help, I would appreciate!
I am not naive, I know this isn't the first person to suffer this way. Addiction has existed since there have been humans, and it is just a nice thing to have the internet to be able to communicate this common thread. So please do not think I am thinking I am overtly unique. I just meant that I know each situation/relationship is different...but the underlying factor of addiction in these situations has many similarities among all of us. So please do not hesitate to share thoughts!
No! I do assume people have been affected similarly, and that is why I return here often, looking for their knowledge and support! This type of thing was so out of my wheelhouse that I am happy to find a place where people can relate and share. In fact, if anyone wants to share their experience, please do so here or in private if that works best for you...honestly anything that you think will help, I would appreciate!
I am not naive, I know this isn't the first person to suffer this way. Addiction has existed since there have been humans, and it is just a nice thing to have the internet to be able to communicate this common thread. So please do not think I am thinking I am overtly unique. I just meant that I know each situation/relationship is different...but the underlying factor of addiction in these situations has many similarities among all of us. So please do not hesitate to share thoughts!
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
At this point in time, my addicted stepson does not contact me. I occasionally send him a text message to let him know that I am thinking about him, praying for him, and that I love him.
Yes, it breaks my heart into a million tiny pieces to know that there is nothing I can do to help him. That he may never recover. That his late father and I had to be told he had a 50/50 shot of living through just the first of 3 hospital detox stints. That he wrecked his car, threatened to kill family members, was tazered by his dealer. That I have set money aside to pay for his funeral expenses if needed.
I really am so very sorry for your pain, Joel, but it is not unique. Believe me...we understand.
Yes, it breaks my heart into a million tiny pieces to know that there is nothing I can do to help him. That he may never recover. That his late father and I had to be told he had a 50/50 shot of living through just the first of 3 hospital detox stints. That he wrecked his car, threatened to kill family members, was tazered by his dealer. That I have set money aside to pay for his funeral expenses if needed.
I really am so very sorry for your pain, Joel, but it is not unique. Believe me...we understand.
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: USA
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You went through a lot of traumatic drama with this women. It was to the extent you had to stop seeing her & talking to her - hence no contact mode (same as me)
From what I read above, nothing positive has changed to cause you to go into contact mode. There is absolutely no logical reason to break no contact.
Your relationship & suffering with this woman will be over or not based on what you determine not her. Its the same for me. Some crazy bunch of BS can happen (really at anytime) which could cause her to contact me. Whether I allow myself to be dragged back into to the chaotic mess or not is totally up to me. Same for you.
Thanks
From what I read above, nothing positive has changed to cause you to go into contact mode. There is absolutely no logical reason to break no contact.
Your relationship & suffering with this woman will be over or not based on what you determine not her. Its the same for me. Some crazy bunch of BS can happen (really at anytime) which could cause her to contact me. Whether I allow myself to be dragged back into to the chaotic mess or not is totally up to me. Same for you.
Thanks
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
No contact or contact? Do I answer, not answer? Do I reach out to her? etc...
No contact would = you are moving away from this relationship with knowledge you never had before to prepare you for something greater.
No contact would = you beginning a new healthy life that is not surrounded and consumed by alcoholism.
Contact would = more hurt and pain.
Contact would = your unmet expectations, ones that she will never live up to.
Contact would = her manipulating you, using you, lying to you and more hurt and pain.
Contact would = losing more of yourself to her addiction.
Contact would = did I say more HURT AND PAIN.
There comes a time in life when you realize that nothing will ever be the same. And you realize that from now on, time will be divided in two parts: before this and after this.
Seems to me you have your own inner battle going on of what used to be vs what is. And I can tell you from experience that what was- will NEVER become that again.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
I am not naive, I know this isn't the first person to suffer this way
excellent!!
ya know, a better thread or question would be
" what happened when you didnt listen to your gut or the advise and answered the phone."
excellent!!
ya know, a better thread or question would be
" what happened when you didnt listen to your gut or the advise and answered the phone."
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I will reiterate that I am not perfect and full of flaws.
I do reread each of your comments multiple times, and try to absorb them. But please don't hold it against me for still loving this person, for wanting to love with her again. I don't just write people off, even the ones doing terrible things. I think the murderer analogy is a bit detached from what we are talking about here, but yes, it doesn't change what she has done. A next question would be, could I get over that...
I'm not there yet to be able to answer it. To follow this, I think the comment on her showing improvement to warrant contact...No she has not. Simply based on the fact that she is still acting out addiction to the fullest extent. In this light, I am trying to protect myself, and just trying to work through all the crazy emotions and thoughts I have here. Please forgive me if this isn't the right place to do so, as I thought it was.
I do reread each of your comments multiple times, and try to absorb them. But please don't hold it against me for still loving this person, for wanting to love with her again. I don't just write people off, even the ones doing terrible things. I think the murderer analogy is a bit detached from what we are talking about here, but yes, it doesn't change what she has done. A next question would be, could I get over that...
I'm not there yet to be able to answer it. To follow this, I think the comment on her showing improvement to warrant contact...No she has not. Simply based on the fact that she is still acting out addiction to the fullest extent. In this light, I am trying to protect myself, and just trying to work through all the crazy emotions and thoughts I have here. Please forgive me if this isn't the right place to do so, as I thought it was.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
she hasn't contacted you.
you want/hope she does. you even tried with the puppy pic remember?
her life, according to third parties, is a mess.
her life, the parts you have shared with us, was a mess BEFORE all the latest went down.
she hasn't really changed as much as she has let the mask she wears slip.
she hasn't contacted you.
she may if desperate enough. is that what you want? some one who has screwed you over, dumped you flat, ran off, exploded the vestiges of her life, got deposited by the fling back to ma and pa, has been arrested or hospitalized, has been refusing further treatment, is now skulking about looking for a handout. is THAT what you want slithering back to you.???
a lot of this is about EGO. i mean how dare she right? here you are mr awesome, ring in hand, perfect life mapped and she LEAVES??
yes.she.did. it's safe to say she wasn't ever really on board with the whole plan. she just rode it as far as she could, and then busted out the side door for some new shiny toy. some other plan. some other enabler. hardly sounds worth your precious time.........
you want/hope she does. you even tried with the puppy pic remember?
her life, according to third parties, is a mess.
her life, the parts you have shared with us, was a mess BEFORE all the latest went down.
she hasn't really changed as much as she has let the mask she wears slip.
she hasn't contacted you.
she may if desperate enough. is that what you want? some one who has screwed you over, dumped you flat, ran off, exploded the vestiges of her life, got deposited by the fling back to ma and pa, has been arrested or hospitalized, has been refusing further treatment, is now skulking about looking for a handout. is THAT what you want slithering back to you.???
a lot of this is about EGO. i mean how dare she right? here you are mr awesome, ring in hand, perfect life mapped and she LEAVES??
yes.she.did. it's safe to say she wasn't ever really on board with the whole plan. she just rode it as far as she could, and then busted out the side door for some new shiny toy. some other plan. some other enabler. hardly sounds worth your precious time.........
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Joel,
I don't think we are questioning your commitments to people, or your current level of feelings for this person. And.... this is definitely the place to share and to vent - I've done it many times here, believe me.
You aren't just sharing in your posts, you are outright asking for guidance, direction, members' experience. And we are, for the most part, ready to respond. Why? Because we've all been where you are, on one side of the fence or the other. I think I said this in another thread - as a compassionate human being we have a duty to stop someone from falling into the hole in the sidewalk.
The 'sidewalk' being all this thoughts/feelings/frustrations that we go through, have gone through, and continue to go through. You're not saying anything that many on this forum have not heard before. It took me MONTHS to realize that my situation with AW was not unique, that I was not unique. You've been here less than 2 months.
I notice a common theme in your posts, and it goes something like: I just want to put logic and reason to her actions, I want her back, I want her to 'wake up and get it'. And how can I make that happen?
And then we give a response, and it goes against your hopes and dreams, and you come back with, "But....."
We like you, Joel, and we feel for you. We want what's best for you, that's all. There is a collective millenia or more of experience on this board, and you'll get where you need to be, in time.
Keep posting, keep reading, keep the focus on YOU, not her, let go of the rent-free space she is taking in your head.
COD
I don't think we are questioning your commitments to people, or your current level of feelings for this person. And.... this is definitely the place to share and to vent - I've done it many times here, believe me.
You aren't just sharing in your posts, you are outright asking for guidance, direction, members' experience. And we are, for the most part, ready to respond. Why? Because we've all been where you are, on one side of the fence or the other. I think I said this in another thread - as a compassionate human being we have a duty to stop someone from falling into the hole in the sidewalk.
The 'sidewalk' being all this thoughts/feelings/frustrations that we go through, have gone through, and continue to go through. You're not saying anything that many on this forum have not heard before. It took me MONTHS to realize that my situation with AW was not unique, that I was not unique. You've been here less than 2 months.
I notice a common theme in your posts, and it goes something like: I just want to put logic and reason to her actions, I want her back, I want her to 'wake up and get it'. And how can I make that happen?
And then we give a response, and it goes against your hopes and dreams, and you come back with, "But....."
We like you, Joel, and we feel for you. We want what's best for you, that's all. There is a collective millenia or more of experience on this board, and you'll get where you need to be, in time.
Keep posting, keep reading, keep the focus on YOU, not her, let go of the rent-free space she is taking in your head.
COD
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Originally Posted by GoodguyJoel 
She seems to be stuck there now for some time...I expected much differently out of a person I knew as smart.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 141
Joel,
A couple of years ago I received some very good -
The Best - Advice from our fellow F&F members.
I followed it and to this day I am eternally grateful for the advice. ((((Hugs F&F))))
I am also so grateful that my HP gave me the strength to follow the advice I was given.
I could not have done it on my own....
The advice was NOT to allow my A Sister to move in with me. (It's a long story.) I listened and did what was suggested!!!
This was so painful and difficult for me to do! But I did it.
(You can read my threads/posts).
(By the way, she found a place to go to temporarily, and eventually, her own place.)
Our relationship has suffered greatly due the boundaries I have had to set, because of her alcoholism and depression, and her refusal to get help. (She is still an angry, active A.)
But at least now I am not suffering daily with an active, crazy-making alcoholic (living) with me. (((Sigh....)))
My suggestion/advice:
Whatever method you use:
Do NOT allow her back in your life, nor your home....
And you are probably right that - sooner or later - she will probably try to come back to ya'. Avoid her or just say no! (I think you are wise to have a plan in place.)
As others have said: You can't save her. You can't!!!!
She is very sick; she sounds unmotivated/uninterested in recovery. Chances are very high that recovery for her is a long ways off - if ever.....
IMHO -
You will be wasting your time, energy, $$$$ and life if you ALLOW/TAKE her back. (In any way...)
Good luck. Hang in there!
A couple of years ago I received some very good -
The Best - Advice from our fellow F&F members.
I followed it and to this day I am eternally grateful for the advice. ((((Hugs F&F))))
I am also so grateful that my HP gave me the strength to follow the advice I was given.
I could not have done it on my own....
The advice was NOT to allow my A Sister to move in with me. (It's a long story.) I listened and did what was suggested!!!
This was so painful and difficult for me to do! But I did it.
(You can read my threads/posts).
(By the way, she found a place to go to temporarily, and eventually, her own place.)
Our relationship has suffered greatly due the boundaries I have had to set, because of her alcoholism and depression, and her refusal to get help. (She is still an angry, active A.)
But at least now I am not suffering daily with an active, crazy-making alcoholic (living) with me. (((Sigh....)))
My suggestion/advice:
Whatever method you use:
Do NOT allow her back in your life, nor your home....
And you are probably right that - sooner or later - she will probably try to come back to ya'. Avoid her or just say no! (I think you are wise to have a plan in place.)
As others have said: You can't save her. You can't!!!!
She is very sick; she sounds unmotivated/uninterested in recovery. Chances are very high that recovery for her is a long ways off - if ever.....
IMHO -
You will be wasting your time, energy, $$$$ and life if you ALLOW/TAKE her back. (In any way...)
Good luck. Hang in there!
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 980
After walking away from my addict in beginning of June & simultaneously posting my story on SR F&F substance abusers. I was given a ton of quality advice from most of the same fine people who are currently giving you advice.
I was warned to go no contact. Well guess what I took the call mid July. 3 calls in one week. By Friday of that same week I was about ready to hang myself. Then went no contact & remained there to this day.
I am highly educated & what I consider to be very successful in business. She is an active addict & suffers from multiple addictions - one of which is alcohol.
Guess who got the better of who? I had no clue how to deal with her. Even today with all that I know now - I could not deal with her. She would chew me up & spit me out - no contest.
I have taken that power away from her. She can no longer chew me up. I wont allow her the opportunity. I took back my power.
And Joel yes I love her with all my heart - always will love her.
You can read my ugly mess on SR. Its something like 18 pages long with 10K some views & tons of comments
I was warned to go no contact. Well guess what I took the call mid July. 3 calls in one week. By Friday of that same week I was about ready to hang myself. Then went no contact & remained there to this day.
I am highly educated & what I consider to be very successful in business. She is an active addict & suffers from multiple addictions - one of which is alcohol.
Guess who got the better of who? I had no clue how to deal with her. Even today with all that I know now - I could not deal with her. She would chew me up & spit me out - no contest.
I have taken that power away from her. She can no longer chew me up. I wont allow her the opportunity. I took back my power.
And Joel yes I love her with all my heart - always will love her.
You can read my ugly mess on SR. Its something like 18 pages long with 10K some views & tons of comments
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,414
Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
This is what my comment was in response to, GGJ. My point merely being that no amount of "smarts" is armor against addiction. My XABF was practically a genius, but he's still drinking himself to death nonetheless.
In fact, quite a bit of my drinking was done en route to the above stack of paper.
Interestingly, I drank quite a bit to deal with the stress of "rescuing"
and caregiving my alcoholic mother for decades.
Despite all the training in logic, reflection, and analytical thinking
I just wasn't smart enough to figure out:
1) My "help" was just allowing her to destroy herself more slowly without accountability.
2)It was not my right to try to "influence" her in the direction I felt her life should go.
My compassion, my altruism, my love were not enough, and they never were.
Her life was her own to spend as she chose.
Meanwhile, I managed to nearly destroy my own life, marriage
and the career I had studied so hard and long to build due
to my not minding my own life but trying to help her find her way back.
In the end, I pulled back and finally gave her the dignity of choosing her own fate.
By doing this--I was able to save my life, career, and marriage
by stopping drinking myself and accepting that my enabling was
as big an addiction as the drinking.
I was born and bred to please others, excel, and fix things.
Sound familiar?
Your an academic--the validity and reliability of the anecdotal
qualitative case studies we're sharing here is pretty high.
No need to replicate for yourself unless you want to hurt far more compared to how you feel now.
No contact, no question.
"O you must wear your rue with difference".
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,146
The logic of addiction is backwards. Addiction is a compulsion that makes the person feel good temporarily while ultimately destroying the person. Without the drug, they are in agony. With the drug, they are killing themselves. Biologically, addiction is useless. Psychologically it makes a lot of sense.
Once a person is an addict they have already gone from just "drink too much" or "drugging too much" and being slightly irresponsible once or twice, to falling down a rabbit hole out of which they will always be trying to climb. If you don't like the "murderer" analogy then do you like Heraclitus (you said you were in academia)? "No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." Your ex will never be what she was. You can't rewind time. The situation is different now. She is also different now.
I, and every single person here responding to your thread, have experienced addiction either personally or by proximity. We have cried. We have not eaten. We have not slept. Our friendships and families and children and lovers have been torn apart by it. We have gone grey and broke because of it. This, despite the fact that, we are dealing with intelligent people who have degrees, sometimes two or three, who have had (or still have) great jobs, whose addicts were also wonderful people -- scientists, CEOs, athletes, artists, novelists, bankers, architects, psychologists, doctors, models, very awesome-sauce people (mine was an academic, and yes, a "successful" one), and yet... the addiction takes that away.
Underneath our egos we are all naked as the day we were born. You can't pretend otherwise -- everyone can see it. I took a long hard look at my nudity and went no contact. I'm speaking in metaphors here, but I hope you get the idea.
She has not tried to contact you. Do not contact her.
If she does contact you... say "NO" and make no deals because you will be disappointed. Save yourself and get help for yourself or you are going to end up without the career and life you have spent a long time trying to build.
I love my addict (soon to be ex) husband and I always will love him. I might move on but I will always love him (in some way). I still fantasize about being Michael J. Fox and going back 5 or 6 years to when things were peachy. Doesn't mean it will happen. Doesn't mean I should contact my ex.
Once a person is an addict they have already gone from just "drink too much" or "drugging too much" and being slightly irresponsible once or twice, to falling down a rabbit hole out of which they will always be trying to climb. If you don't like the "murderer" analogy then do you like Heraclitus (you said you were in academia)? "No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." Your ex will never be what she was. You can't rewind time. The situation is different now. She is also different now.
I, and every single person here responding to your thread, have experienced addiction either personally or by proximity. We have cried. We have not eaten. We have not slept. Our friendships and families and children and lovers have been torn apart by it. We have gone grey and broke because of it. This, despite the fact that, we are dealing with intelligent people who have degrees, sometimes two or three, who have had (or still have) great jobs, whose addicts were also wonderful people -- scientists, CEOs, athletes, artists, novelists, bankers, architects, psychologists, doctors, models, very awesome-sauce people (mine was an academic, and yes, a "successful" one), and yet... the addiction takes that away.
Underneath our egos we are all naked as the day we were born. You can't pretend otherwise -- everyone can see it. I took a long hard look at my nudity and went no contact. I'm speaking in metaphors here, but I hope you get the idea.
She has not tried to contact you. Do not contact her.
If she does contact you... say "NO" and make no deals because you will be disappointed. Save yourself and get help for yourself or you are going to end up without the career and life you have spent a long time trying to build.
I love my addict (soon to be ex) husband and I always will love him. I might move on but I will always love him (in some way). I still fantasize about being Michael J. Fox and going back 5 or 6 years to when things were peachy. Doesn't mean it will happen. Doesn't mean I should contact my ex.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Add me to the list of people with a pile of letters after our names who were for a very long time completely unable to comprehend the destructive power of alcoholism. (For example, I used to look down on people who were "codependent", thinking that you had to be a bit dumb to put all that effort into such a screwed-up person, until I realized "$!#@! I am doing exactly the same thing!". That was a lesson in humility).
My ex also has a bunch of letters after his name, yet engages in "magical thinking" that a six-year-old could see through, in the service of maintaining his addiction (search my posts for the word "mouthwash" for a recent example). So yes, intelligence has nothing to do with addiction (I also think intelligence has very little to do with getting a string of letters after your name, judging by the behavior of some of my esteemed colleagues, but that's totally off topic).
My ex also has a bunch of letters after his name, yet engages in "magical thinking" that a six-year-old could see through, in the service of maintaining his addiction (search my posts for the word "mouthwash" for a recent example). So yes, intelligence has nothing to do with addiction (I also think intelligence has very little to do with getting a string of letters after your name, judging by the behavior of some of my esteemed colleagues, but that's totally off topic).
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 109
Please all, do not dwell on the intelligence aspect. I understand that it is unrelated to addiction. Likewise, it is unrelated to how we the non-addicts respond. Previously I had mentioned it to portray what my situation was, and still is and what I was going through when this all happened. I think my post earlier today should answer any questions regarding my thoughts on higher education...it is irrelavant to the issue, and I am proud of what I am, but certainly not mentioning it for praise purposes. I do appreciate you all showing that you may be on a similar path, or are well into your careers with all sorts of intelligence, but this isn’t a proverbial “pissing contest” so let’s not aim the conversation that way. It was purely a response to something I was unclear about.
Now, I will try to respond momentarily to the rest of the comments and questions. I’m not angry, I just wanted to rectify that this wasn’t the major focus of this thread. I am nobody special, just another person looking for support, and in a tough spot.
Now, I will try to respond momentarily to the rest of the comments and questions. I’m not angry, I just wanted to rectify that this wasn’t the major focus of this thread. I am nobody special, just another person looking for support, and in a tough spot.
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