Mental Health and the Crazies that need help.
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 667
Mental Health and the Crazies that need help.
This is going to be a post more about mental illness as this person was never a drinker in the time I knew her. However some of the actions remind me off an addled mind when the alcoholic drinks.
A little background. I commute back and forth to Dallas for work. I had been working for 2 months on a meeting with state legislatures and various governing bodies that are reviewing our operations. It took months to align all the stars and the meeting was set for Oct. 26.
I was at my home in another state when this happened.
I got divorced 10 years ago. In the state of Fla. I no longer live there.
At the time I offered my ex about 70% of our marital assets in exchange for no alimony. To which she agreed to and wanted an attorney to "look it over". Which turned into a 3 year brawl that resulted in her getting nothing. She was found to be lying about her income, the events that revolved around the divorce etc. Basically she pissed off the courts bad enough that they whacked her hard. So that's the history of the last time I saw her. To say she was upset at the outcome is a very understated way of saying she was majorly pissed off at me. But that was the last I ever saw her was the day she left the courtroom.
About 2 years ago I started getting phone calls from "someone". The first one was simply to confirm I was me. They hung up. About 2 weeks later I get a second call saying they knew I was harassing my ex wife. I simply chalked it up to someone drunk and mistakenly calling a wrong number, and hung up. By the 3rd call, I called the local PD that the calls were originating from. Sorry nothing we can do, it isn't a threat of violence. They began to come with more frequency and more threats that were not threats of violence. I simply hung up and just blocked the number. Then they'd come from another number. And so it went. I simply hung up and never gave it another thought. None of them were my ex-wifes voice.
So 6:30AM on October 9th I get a doorbell ring. *Never a good sign*
It is a county sheriff serving me with an Injunction Order from my ex wife and some other person I have never heard of in my life. I accept the service, the sheriff has nothing but a job to do.
In the sworn complaint it states I have threatened to kill them both and a laundry list of other things, such as wiretapping, following her, and basic harassment claims.
Now mind you I didn't know where my ex lived, other than it was nowhere near me. So this is all a complete fabricated story being told.
Court date of the 27th of Oct!!!
I initially considered not going and simply letting her get the RO as I knew I was never going to be around her and would never break the restrictions being called out. Until I learn that by doing nothing, a few things would happen. I'd be charged $750 in court cost, forfeit my 2nd Amendment Rights and likely get my security clearance revoked as it shows up on Federal Databases. So I call some attorneys in that jurisdiction and ask them my legal options. I listened to not 1 but 3 attorneys tell me that it wold be multiple thousands of $$ PER RO. I had 2 against me. I declined the kind offers of a rate reduction to $4K to handle the matter, and no matter what, I had to show up anyway.
This is 2 states away from where I live!
So I schedule time off for me. My boss was more than a little ticked off as we had been working towards this meeting for several weeks. Then explaining I had to go to court REALLY made him start to ask some tough questions.
I had witnesses that would testify to my whereabouts on the dates being claimed, to schedule their time off. I place them in lodging at my expense.
I gather all the records I could to show the courts that I have not been there on the times claimed. Including 2 years worth of phone records to show these odd calls coming from the same location that the RO was now filed from.
And I go to court on the 27th.
She shows up, sees me there and I could tell immediately started getting a panicked look about her. The second person on the 2nd RO is nowhere to be seen.
Mine was the 3rd case heard that day. I got an idea of how these go by then. The judge does most of the work and asked questions as needed. My plan was to say nothing at all as the Petitioner has the burden of proof in these. The judge basically shut her down in 30 seconds of testimony. Dismissed the matter and held me there in the seat and asked that they be escorted out. She put up a fuss saying it was a public courtroom and she intended on hearing the next one against me. The judge actually had to have the Bailiff physically escort her out with not force but physical persuasion. When he was sure the Bailiffs had gotten her clear, he motioned me to approach the bench. He turned off the mic as I approached.
*Thinking I was somehow in trouble.*
*Mic off at the bench in the courtroom*
Judge: Do you own a firearm?
Me: Yes your honor I turned it in as a condition of this order and I have the paperwork to prove it.
Judge: You need to get an RO against her the woman appears to be crazy.
Me: Your honor I have been getting calls for years that I suspect is connected and now the courts have provided her with my home address. I wasn't worried about the calls but now that the courts have helped her find me......
Judge: Interrupting me....The courts did no such thing, when she swore out the statement she knew your address to have you served at, it wasn't the courts. This is why I'm talking to you.
Me: Your honor can't you charge her with perjury and sentence her to jail to get her some mental health help?
Judge: If I did that she'd get an attorney and have it overturned or make the courts pay to have her evaluated.
Me: So you're now telling me that I have a crazy ex wife that knows where I live?
Judge: I asked you if you had a firearm, it may require you protect yourself.
Me: As long as I don't go to jail for it.
Judge: Take out an RO for additional protection. If she shows up it would be hard to convict you.
So I went to a local attorney on my way out of town. Showed him what just happened.
Attorney: *Clicking on his keyboard as we talk* She has no money, is facing eviction and he (the attorney) thinks she is simply trying to get free housing from the Domestic Abuse Resource Center that offers free housing to the victims of Domestic Abuse. They coach them on how to fill out a complaint with the key words needed that sets off the protective housing. She didn't plan on my actually showing up that day. Assuming she'd get the RO granted by default and get free housing for the duration of that RO which likely would have been 18 months.
He didn't think she was medically crazy he just felt she was working the free housing angle.
Me: So what do I do?
Attorney: Well if you thought she was mad at you for 10 years before, if you have now taken away her hoped for free housing, she is REALLY going to be mad when she is faced with living on the streets.
Me: But what about the fact that she is probably mentally crazy?
Attorney: The only resources most states have is the prison systems. They (the crazy person) need help, often seek it out, only to learn that the only way they can get it if they don't have money, is to go to jail. So she may intentionally be trying to get incarcerated now that the housing plan fell through.
So her next move would be to try and step it up to get arrested.
Me: Oh joy.
Attorney: Or sometimes they put themselves in physical harms way by drugs, drinking etc to end their lives or at least try to end the misery somehow. They jump off bridges, jump in front of buses etc.
Me: Interrupting him....or get shot by trespassing on an ex husbands home that she is angry with.
Attorney: Yes there's that also........
So here's my options thus far:
1. If I sue her in small claims, for the amount I had to spend to come to this, it has to be in the jurisdiction that damages occurred in.
1a. If she has no money then the point of winning is mute.
2. The statutes where I reside for stalking may provide an argument for Stalking in the 2nd degree. MAY. Its iffey by the wording of it.
The four criminal stalking laws are:
Stalking in the First Degree – Intentionally and repeatedly following or harassing another person, and making an expressed or implied threat to put that person in reasonable fear of death or serious physical harm.
Can't make that one.
Stalking in the Second Degree - Intentionally and repeatedly following, harassing, or verbally or electronically communicating with another person or that person's family or friends with an improper purpose, causing mental or emotional harm to the victim or putting him or her in reasonable fear that his or her career is threatened, and the defendant was previously told to stop
Might be able to make this one stick. The AND part is the problem.
Aggravated Stalking in the First Degree – Stalking in the first degree which is also a violation of any court order or injunction, such as a protection order
NOPE
Aggravated Stalking in the Second Degree – Stalking in the second degree which also constitutes a court order or injunction violation.
And NOPE
3. I could sue her civilly for making false statements (slander) as she did say things to 3rd parties that damaged me. But again, collecting from a deadbeat is pointless.
4. Where I live has a strong Castle Doctrine and pretty straightforward trespassing laws. So far my easiest possibility is to swear out a no Trespass Order against her, and then if she shows up, I have every reason to believe I am in fear for my life and the Castle Doctrine would be in effect.
I showed HUGE restraint during the divorce. She had the shield of counsel throughout all of it. Now that we are not attached legally I can take the gloves off. She has willfully tracked me down to my residence. She is willfully causing me trouble with no provocation on my part. She has, with malice, made false claims against me. Not only in court but to outside 3rd parties.
5. I could file for RO here, even if on shaky ground. (No threats of violence have taken place), and make her and the other party that filed, go across 2 states to answer for it. If they don't show, I win by default and they get popped for legal expenses of about $900 each, plus have the RO on them.
If she is broke as they say she is, then it would be a big expense for her to get here. And I am using exactly her sworn testimony as means to get the conviction. Hence no false statements on my part. I have phone records for all the calls made to me from their location to prove she(they whoever this other person is), is harassing me. Also in those records it shows exactly when I called the local PD to complain about these calls. There will be no false statements made by me at all in any of it.
If they show up to court, it may not get granted, but they got to spend some $$ to answer for it.....and she was popped already for legal expenses on her end so that may de-motivate her enough.
Kind of sad really. I mean I have no love lost at all for her at all, but if she is truly mentally incompetent, its sad that the options faced are so dire. She looked like hell I will say that, but she talked as if she was lucid, aware and certainly listened and responded to the judge when questioned. So she can certainly appear to be NOT crazy.
I don't want to find out one way or the other if she is crazy, but nobody bothers with how others may be affected by these type things. I have just spent a chunk of $$ on this stupidity, had to reschedule a meeting that took weeks to set up, have to answer to my boss as to whether I'm the right guy for this position (he is majorly pissed, rightfully so, that I had to be the reason that our company couldn't make the meeting we set up in the first place).
And then you don't know what the next crazy act to come might be or if it will come at all. I certainly didn't expect to ever hear from her after 10 years.
10 years later and she has still manages to cost me. *sigh*
A little background. I commute back and forth to Dallas for work. I had been working for 2 months on a meeting with state legislatures and various governing bodies that are reviewing our operations. It took months to align all the stars and the meeting was set for Oct. 26.
I was at my home in another state when this happened.
I got divorced 10 years ago. In the state of Fla. I no longer live there.
At the time I offered my ex about 70% of our marital assets in exchange for no alimony. To which she agreed to and wanted an attorney to "look it over". Which turned into a 3 year brawl that resulted in her getting nothing. She was found to be lying about her income, the events that revolved around the divorce etc. Basically she pissed off the courts bad enough that they whacked her hard. So that's the history of the last time I saw her. To say she was upset at the outcome is a very understated way of saying she was majorly pissed off at me. But that was the last I ever saw her was the day she left the courtroom.
About 2 years ago I started getting phone calls from "someone". The first one was simply to confirm I was me. They hung up. About 2 weeks later I get a second call saying they knew I was harassing my ex wife. I simply chalked it up to someone drunk and mistakenly calling a wrong number, and hung up. By the 3rd call, I called the local PD that the calls were originating from. Sorry nothing we can do, it isn't a threat of violence. They began to come with more frequency and more threats that were not threats of violence. I simply hung up and just blocked the number. Then they'd come from another number. And so it went. I simply hung up and never gave it another thought. None of them were my ex-wifes voice.
So 6:30AM on October 9th I get a doorbell ring. *Never a good sign*
It is a county sheriff serving me with an Injunction Order from my ex wife and some other person I have never heard of in my life. I accept the service, the sheriff has nothing but a job to do.
In the sworn complaint it states I have threatened to kill them both and a laundry list of other things, such as wiretapping, following her, and basic harassment claims.
Now mind you I didn't know where my ex lived, other than it was nowhere near me. So this is all a complete fabricated story being told.
Court date of the 27th of Oct!!!
I initially considered not going and simply letting her get the RO as I knew I was never going to be around her and would never break the restrictions being called out. Until I learn that by doing nothing, a few things would happen. I'd be charged $750 in court cost, forfeit my 2nd Amendment Rights and likely get my security clearance revoked as it shows up on Federal Databases. So I call some attorneys in that jurisdiction and ask them my legal options. I listened to not 1 but 3 attorneys tell me that it wold be multiple thousands of $$ PER RO. I had 2 against me. I declined the kind offers of a rate reduction to $4K to handle the matter, and no matter what, I had to show up anyway.
This is 2 states away from where I live!
So I schedule time off for me. My boss was more than a little ticked off as we had been working towards this meeting for several weeks. Then explaining I had to go to court REALLY made him start to ask some tough questions.
I had witnesses that would testify to my whereabouts on the dates being claimed, to schedule their time off. I place them in lodging at my expense.
I gather all the records I could to show the courts that I have not been there on the times claimed. Including 2 years worth of phone records to show these odd calls coming from the same location that the RO was now filed from.
And I go to court on the 27th.
She shows up, sees me there and I could tell immediately started getting a panicked look about her. The second person on the 2nd RO is nowhere to be seen.
Mine was the 3rd case heard that day. I got an idea of how these go by then. The judge does most of the work and asked questions as needed. My plan was to say nothing at all as the Petitioner has the burden of proof in these. The judge basically shut her down in 30 seconds of testimony. Dismissed the matter and held me there in the seat and asked that they be escorted out. She put up a fuss saying it was a public courtroom and she intended on hearing the next one against me. The judge actually had to have the Bailiff physically escort her out with not force but physical persuasion. When he was sure the Bailiffs had gotten her clear, he motioned me to approach the bench. He turned off the mic as I approached.
*Thinking I was somehow in trouble.*
*Mic off at the bench in the courtroom*
Judge: Do you own a firearm?
Me: Yes your honor I turned it in as a condition of this order and I have the paperwork to prove it.
Judge: You need to get an RO against her the woman appears to be crazy.
Me: Your honor I have been getting calls for years that I suspect is connected and now the courts have provided her with my home address. I wasn't worried about the calls but now that the courts have helped her find me......
Judge: Interrupting me....The courts did no such thing, when she swore out the statement she knew your address to have you served at, it wasn't the courts. This is why I'm talking to you.
Me: Your honor can't you charge her with perjury and sentence her to jail to get her some mental health help?
Judge: If I did that she'd get an attorney and have it overturned or make the courts pay to have her evaluated.
Me: So you're now telling me that I have a crazy ex wife that knows where I live?
Judge: I asked you if you had a firearm, it may require you protect yourself.
Me: As long as I don't go to jail for it.
Judge: Take out an RO for additional protection. If she shows up it would be hard to convict you.
So I went to a local attorney on my way out of town. Showed him what just happened.
Attorney: *Clicking on his keyboard as we talk* She has no money, is facing eviction and he (the attorney) thinks she is simply trying to get free housing from the Domestic Abuse Resource Center that offers free housing to the victims of Domestic Abuse. They coach them on how to fill out a complaint with the key words needed that sets off the protective housing. She didn't plan on my actually showing up that day. Assuming she'd get the RO granted by default and get free housing for the duration of that RO which likely would have been 18 months.
He didn't think she was medically crazy he just felt she was working the free housing angle.
Me: So what do I do?
Attorney: Well if you thought she was mad at you for 10 years before, if you have now taken away her hoped for free housing, she is REALLY going to be mad when she is faced with living on the streets.
Me: But what about the fact that she is probably mentally crazy?
Attorney: The only resources most states have is the prison systems. They (the crazy person) need help, often seek it out, only to learn that the only way they can get it if they don't have money, is to go to jail. So she may intentionally be trying to get incarcerated now that the housing plan fell through.
So her next move would be to try and step it up to get arrested.
Me: Oh joy.
Attorney: Or sometimes they put themselves in physical harms way by drugs, drinking etc to end their lives or at least try to end the misery somehow. They jump off bridges, jump in front of buses etc.
Me: Interrupting him....or get shot by trespassing on an ex husbands home that she is angry with.
Attorney: Yes there's that also........
So here's my options thus far:
1. If I sue her in small claims, for the amount I had to spend to come to this, it has to be in the jurisdiction that damages occurred in.
1a. If she has no money then the point of winning is mute.
2. The statutes where I reside for stalking may provide an argument for Stalking in the 2nd degree. MAY. Its iffey by the wording of it.
The four criminal stalking laws are:
Stalking in the First Degree – Intentionally and repeatedly following or harassing another person, and making an expressed or implied threat to put that person in reasonable fear of death or serious physical harm.
Can't make that one.
Stalking in the Second Degree - Intentionally and repeatedly following, harassing, or verbally or electronically communicating with another person or that person's family or friends with an improper purpose, causing mental or emotional harm to the victim or putting him or her in reasonable fear that his or her career is threatened, and the defendant was previously told to stop
Might be able to make this one stick. The AND part is the problem.
Aggravated Stalking in the First Degree – Stalking in the first degree which is also a violation of any court order or injunction, such as a protection order
NOPE
Aggravated Stalking in the Second Degree – Stalking in the second degree which also constitutes a court order or injunction violation.
And NOPE
3. I could sue her civilly for making false statements (slander) as she did say things to 3rd parties that damaged me. But again, collecting from a deadbeat is pointless.
4. Where I live has a strong Castle Doctrine and pretty straightforward trespassing laws. So far my easiest possibility is to swear out a no Trespass Order against her, and then if she shows up, I have every reason to believe I am in fear for my life and the Castle Doctrine would be in effect.
I showed HUGE restraint during the divorce. She had the shield of counsel throughout all of it. Now that we are not attached legally I can take the gloves off. She has willfully tracked me down to my residence. She is willfully causing me trouble with no provocation on my part. She has, with malice, made false claims against me. Not only in court but to outside 3rd parties.
5. I could file for RO here, even if on shaky ground. (No threats of violence have taken place), and make her and the other party that filed, go across 2 states to answer for it. If they don't show, I win by default and they get popped for legal expenses of about $900 each, plus have the RO on them.
If she is broke as they say she is, then it would be a big expense for her to get here. And I am using exactly her sworn testimony as means to get the conviction. Hence no false statements on my part. I have phone records for all the calls made to me from their location to prove she(they whoever this other person is), is harassing me. Also in those records it shows exactly when I called the local PD to complain about these calls. There will be no false statements made by me at all in any of it.
If they show up to court, it may not get granted, but they got to spend some $$ to answer for it.....and she was popped already for legal expenses on her end so that may de-motivate her enough.
Kind of sad really. I mean I have no love lost at all for her at all, but if she is truly mentally incompetent, its sad that the options faced are so dire. She looked like hell I will say that, but she talked as if she was lucid, aware and certainly listened and responded to the judge when questioned. So she can certainly appear to be NOT crazy.
I don't want to find out one way or the other if she is crazy, but nobody bothers with how others may be affected by these type things. I have just spent a chunk of $$ on this stupidity, had to reschedule a meeting that took weeks to set up, have to answer to my boss as to whether I'm the right guy for this position (he is majorly pissed, rightfully so, that I had to be the reason that our company couldn't make the meeting we set up in the first place).
And then you don't know what the next crazy act to come might be or if it will come at all. I certainly didn't expect to ever hear from her after 10 years.
10 years later and she has still manages to cost me. *sigh*
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,427
costing her cash aside, for your own protection, I would get the RO just for peace of mind
chances are she won't show up anyway, and you've got documentation and the right to protect yourself if she ever does do anything threatening
so sorry you had to go through that and are still dealing with crazy 10 years on
chances are she won't show up anyway, and you've got documentation and the right to protect yourself if she ever does do anything threatening
so sorry you had to go through that and are still dealing with crazy 10 years on
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 9,003
Wow . . . .just wow.
I am so so sorry you are going through this. I wonder how often people have to deal with situations like this. I so, so wish the US had some effective way of dealing with the mentally ill. What a waste.
I hope your boss can understand the situation.
I am so so sorry you are going through this. I wonder how often people have to deal with situations like this. I so, so wish the US had some effective way of dealing with the mentally ill. What a waste.
I hope your boss can understand the situation.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13 
costing her cash aside, for your own protection, I would get the RO just for peace of mind
chances are she won't show up anyway, and you've got documentation and the right to protect yourself if she ever does do anything threatening
so sorry you had to go through that and are still dealing with crazy 10 years on
chances are she won't show up anyway, and you've got documentation and the right to protect yourself if she ever does do anything threatening
so sorry you had to go through that and are still dealing with crazy 10 years on
And I have found out that it won't meet the 2nd degree stalking charge either.
So what I have in place is a Do Not Trespass filed with my local PD. If she shows up they will take her to jail without listening to why she is here. She will be jailed based on this and held til trial whereby she can explain the the judge why she came here.
Its the best I can do based on what has taken place thus far. I was told that if she now makes contact with me, even through third parties, that it would now be considered Stalking and they would issue a warrant to that affect.
Time to get back to a normal life again..........hopefully for good.
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