People Don't Change

Old 11-01-2017, 02:02 PM
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People Don't Change

Last time I posted I had moved out of the house and took the our kids with me. Well that lasted a week! We had an anniversary vacation planned and AH really wanted us to still go on it and work on "us". Well we went to New Orleons and he drank and got drunk every day. When we got back I stayed at our home and it's been a month. He has cut back his drinking meaning he has only drank two of the three nights he was off. 🙄 Well last week he drank all three nights. I knew it was only a matter of time. Also he took off Hallowenn and after we were all in bed he got drunk, but threw/ hid away all his cans. I wonder if hiding it will become a new norm? He has never done that, but I never put rules in place either. Besides that he has become controlling. Watching our bank account and questioning every cent I spend. I'm not sure what that's about. Can't help but feel like it's a jab at me. People don't change, and I know this and will always be the first to preach it. I just wonder what's wrong with me that I put up with it?
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Old 11-01-2017, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Chevfb7 View Post
People don't change, and I know this and will always be the first to preach it. I just wonder what's wrong with me that I put up with it?
SOME people dont change.
i had absolutely no reason to change when i had an enabling codependant allowing my sick,insane behavior to continue.

what could be wrong is ya havent decided that ya dont want to allow the behavior around you or the kids any more.
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Old 11-01-2017, 02:14 PM
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Chev - I am really sorry to hear about your situation. When I was reading your post, I was reminded of another thread, posted by KeepingTheFaith, that hits on exactly what you're asking. I found it to be a very helpful so I've copied and pasted it below. Sending you good thoughts and prayers that you find your way because it sounds like you know what you need to do!

Family Recovery Solutions

When Is It Time To Throw In the Towel?

Deciding to walk away from a relationship is usually a difficult decision. In a "conventional" scenario it can be tough enough, but add in the element of substance abuse, and there can be added stress.

With an addiction landscape, there may come a time when you feel that you have exhausted all your avenues in trying to live with your mate's substance abuse issues and your own personal well being is now in danger. You have run out of gas and the only healthy option is to throw in the towel and make a dramatic, earth-shaking move.

Like the alcoholic/addict who may hit "bottom" before realizing that it's time to change the course of his or her life or die, the family member or friend can hit bottom as well. With months or even years of weighing this gut-wrenching decision, it can finally culminate from anger to frustration to sheer exhaustion. Either way, you have probably shed buckets of tears, and can't believe that your life has come to this fork in the road.

I know that when I decided to leave my husband because of his out-of-control addictive behavior, I spent what seemed to be a decade of sleepless nights pondering my decision. After all, regardless of his disposition, I did love the man, we had a family and after 20 years had built a life together, but deep down I knew I had to bail. I didn't know who I was anymore, and, like someone drowning, I was desperate to grab on to any piece of wood that might allow me reclaim my life.

Despite the excruciating pain I knew would accompany my decision I had to believe it would be better in the long run for myself and my family. I kept in mind that the big picture of making a new life had to outweigh the almost impossibility that maybe tomorrow would be different if I stayed. I had been down that disappointing road so many times before that I found it helpful to burn those memories in my head as I knew I would call upon them in the future when I felt shaky about my decision.

With all this said, here are a few reasons why one stays in a relationship with the alcoholic/addict possibly longer than they should:

1) Gripped with fear as to what life might be.

2) Feeling that children are better off with two parents rather than one, regardless of the discomfort and tension in the household.

3) The alcoholic/addict is the chief money maker and you would be left financially compromised.

4) Fear of retribution.

5) Fear of being alone.

6) Hanging on to the few shreds of normal behavior that the alcoholic/addict randomly shows (and continuing to hope that one day it might stick).

7) Social, family (extended or otherwise), and peer pressure that you should keep trying to stick it out.

8) Believing that if you "do this" or "do that" things will change.

9) Failure is not an option.

10) Embarrassed and ashamed.

11) What will people say: gossip.

12) Made a commitment -- religious constraints.

13) Poor reflection on self and self-esteem.



And, here are some reasons that might propel you to make a difficult, but life-saving decision:

1) You are mentally and physically exhausted in dealing with the alcoholic/addict's out of control behavior.

2) You can no longer trust what the alcoholic/addict says or does.

3) The alcoholic/addict continues to bully, ridicule, disrespect and blames you for their short comings and failures.

4) You are weary of the constant merry-go-round of rehabilitation attempts that don't seem to stick for long.

5) Realizing that you deserve better.

6) You are no longer fearful of being alone, since you realize that you are already alone, as the alcoholic/addict is living a life apart from you with his or her drug of choice.

7) Everyone's world is revolving around the alcoholic/addict and consequently other family members may be suffering.

8) You are fearful of any communication and find yourself walking on eggshells in an effort as to not engage the alcoholic/addict's anger.

9) No matter how hard you try, the alcoholic/addict keeps raising the bar for you to "do your part" in the relationship; satisfaction is never reached.

10) The thought of spending one more minute of your life like this is beginning to make you physically ill.

11) You no longer care how it looks to others, what anyone says, or what the ramifications may be of your decision; you have the exit gate in your sights.

Carol Bennett
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Old 11-01-2017, 02:19 PM
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All I can say is...I changed.

But really, only after I accepted that no one else was going to change to make me happy. If I wanted happiness, it was going to be an inside job.

It was not easy to change, and it didn't happen as fast as I wanted it to, but it did happen and my life is better. I am happier, and it didn't depend on anyone else being anything but exactly who they were. I think the same could be true for you, but if you always do what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got.
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Old 11-01-2017, 02:30 PM
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I changed myself which I found changed the world around me.

I stopped tolerating bad behaviours. I behaved nicely myself and which I expected of others and if it wasn't forthcoming, I walked away.

My biggest help was realising I didn't have to respond to people if they were being obnoxious or rude. I would just look blankly at them. A tip I got in Al-anon.

People especially drinkers do things to get a reaction. A blank look stops it. Initially I thought I would have to tell them to stop behaving rudely but that in itself is giving them a reaction. Then they have hooked you in.

A blank look and walking away squashes any nonsense away, in my experience.
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Old 11-01-2017, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sylvie83 View Post
Sorry to hear that

My ex was strange about money too.
Made some odd comments through the relationship.

Found out later on he was in big debt from coke as well as alcohol. God he hid stuff well.

I genuinely think at some level the need is so strong in our qualifiers that they have an eye on making sure they can get their fix at all times. That includes money...because without that what can they do!?

It's an expensive habit!! And it's progressive. They're usually having more than we know about and my god it eats away at their money. Not sure what his situation is work wise but he could be pretty stuffed...Definitely protect yourself financially.

From reading the comments of those trying to stop I've read all sorts about organising their day....plans...location...
situation....timing etc etc...
to make sure they could have what they needed.

Even things like adapting the time they start drinking and the amount they buy so that they have just enough to black out and then get up on time for work in the morning etc.

I'm not sure how much is conscious but...it happens.

I've also heard of lots of paranoia...insecurity...

Could be all sorts of things but I guess the main thing is he's drinking and not stopping and i'm so sorry because I know that gut wrenching feeling..

What's your plan? Any ideas? Do you have support in place?
I don't have a plan. Which is crazy because I'm a planner all the way. I have plenty of support and even a place to go. He recently got weird about money. We live a comfortable life, and I feel like it's his way of controlling me since he thinks I'm trying to control his drinking. He hasn't ever been controlling about money until I gave him rules. Nnot sure why I won't leave. I'm unhappy, exhausted, and fed up.
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Old 11-01-2017, 05:25 PM
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Chev,
What rules did you give him?
Is he following your rules?
Do you trust him that he is following "your" rules.
How long do you think he will follow your rules?

Hon, he is an alcoholic and "rules" don't apply to alcoholics. They do what they want when ever they want with out any consideration of loved ones in their life.

If you are calling these "boundaries" I think you are confused. Boundaries are for us, not rules for them. Boundaries are ... I will not call him in sick if he is hung over. I will leave him drunk on the floor if he passes out and not put him in bed. I will not engage with him when he is drunk and will leave the home. He is a drunk and drunks need to drink. By you threatening him with your rules is not going to make a bit of difference. He will sneak around and lie to you, that's what they do best.

Imo, You need to start taking care of you and not making up rules for a grown man. He is an adult and can legally drink himself to death. I am sorry, it sucks, but they do have that right.
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Old 11-01-2017, 05:31 PM
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Well, I wouldn't paint everybody with such a wide brush.
After all I changed 4 1/2 years ago and haven't had a drink since then. Alcoholics can't"moderate". He needs to stop completely or not at all.
I'll bet he was drinking heavy even when it seemed like one or two.
I know, I became a closet drinker to look like I was under control for a while.
I hope yoru hubby can get it under control.
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Old 11-01-2017, 05:50 PM
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Alcoholism is a family disease... it doesn't discriminate. It'll take us down, just as it will the ones who are drinking.

First step... awareness. It sounds like you're gaining this.

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-involved.html (Alcoholism can and does cause insanity, for all involved)

One day at a time. Step away from judging yourself. (((Hugs)))
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Old 11-01-2017, 06:04 PM
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No, active alcoholics don't change except they get worse as the disease progresses. What I learned in Alanon is that I had to change. To remove myself from the situation and start bringing healthy people into my life. Fear of change kept me stuck but eventually my life got a whole lot better without the alcoholic.
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:26 AM
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I agree that people don't change! a few ones DO change, like examples in this forum but those are the rare ones who have introspection, willpower, etc.

Our actions and decisions are 80-90% subconscious, I suggest looking for a therapist that works on the subconscious part of our minds.... often we hold beliefs there that guide our lives and as soon as those are challenged, questioned, removed, replaced.. things get clearer for us


Also the question is not about other people but about our own life and what we can do about it... that's the only thing we can control! others are who they are.

Hugs
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Old 11-02-2017, 12:06 PM
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People don't change, and I know this and will always be the first to preach it.
Last time I posted I had moved out of the house and took the our kids with me. Well that lasted a week! We had an anniversary vacation planned and AH really wanted us to still go on it and work on "us". Well we went to New Orleons and he drank and got drunk every day. When we got back I stayed at our home and it's been a month.
Look how hard it is for you to change, you left but went right back, now imagine how hard it is for him to change his drinking.

It takes dedication and commitment to change, a real desire then lots of actions to insure that happens.

I wonder if hiding it will become a new norm? He has never done that, but I never put rules in place either.
Rules or boundaries? Do you think he would actually follow a “rule” of no hiding cans/bottles? Or do you think you would actually set a boundary that you would x, y or z if you find hidden empties?
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Old 11-04-2017, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by atalose View Post
Look how hard it is for you to change, you left but went right back, now imagine how hard it is for him to change his drinking.

It takes dedication and commitment to change, a real desire then lots of actions to insure that happens.



Rules or boundaries? Do you think he would actually follow a “rule” of no hiding cans/bottles? Or do you think you would actually set a boundary that you would x, y or z if you find hidden empties?
What's the difference in boundaries and rules?
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Old 11-04-2017, 09:59 AM
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Rules are something you try to impose on others.
"You may not drink in my presence", is a rule.

Boundaries are "rules" you set for yourself.
"If he drinks I will remove myself from the situation", is a boundary.

You can't control someone else's behavior. You CAN control your own behavior and how you REACT to someone else's.
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Old 11-04-2017, 10:14 AM
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Chev's question: What's the difference in boundaries and rules?

The answers can be found in the stickies at the top of the page. Here is today's reading assignment (well, it doesn't all have to be done today, but as soon as you can get to it):

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...oundaries.html (So what ARE Boundaries?)

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...oundaries.html (Setting Boundaries)

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...oundaries.html (Tips For Setting Boundaries)

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...oundaries.html (Signs of Ignored Boundaries.)

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...tionships.html (Hooks which keep you boundary-less in relationships)

There WILL be a test afterwards!

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Old 11-05-2017, 03:03 PM
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Late husband was odd about money, too. It turned out he was taking money out of his IRA to supplement his unemployment insurance to fund his drinking. His investment person (who also did our taxes) let me know because of course, withdrawing the money created a tax burden. Once I knew, I told AH I wasn't going to be liable for his penalties. "I" statements worked really well for me. "I'm having an adequate amount withheld from my pay. I'm not paying for the penalties for money withdrawn from your retirement account. Anything over John's fee for doing our taxes is not my issue." That day, it stopped.
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