CapnToast

All,

New at this. Hope this is the right forum. Married 30 years. Had a hard weekend when I could no longer ignore that voice in my head that there were real problems. Came home from an overnight camping trip to wife passed out at 3:30 pm and obviously drunk. Did the typical private detective thing to see what I'm up against. A liter of Vodka, 3 - 500ml wine boxes and 3 mini-wine bottles. Receipts to prove this was from Friday afternoon to Saturday afternoon. Also found an empty prescription opioid "for migraine" that should have lasted until May of next year (average consumption would have been about 2/day).

What I figured was a little dalliance here and there (we are an avowed non-drinking/drugs family) looks like a real problem to me. Lots of lies and denial as expected. Commitment to just stop. Tears. All the while, we had two pre-teens at home wondering what is going on with mom. I have found her passed out before - bought the story about migraines. Going on at least 3 years. Probably more...no way to really know.

Having the expected trust issues. But more importantly, broken hearted feeling like the future I had in mind for us is bound to be very different. Beyond the obvious longer-term health issues, scared that she might die. That is a ton of alcohol for anyone much less a 5' woman.

Looking into Al-Anon and other resources. No idea what normal feels like in this situation. Feeling more than a little unhinged at the moment. Wish I could keep pretending all is okay - but I can't.

Some background - I work and she is a stay-at-home mom. Comfortable financial life. Not a lot of hard limits / don't know what it would take to "hit bottom" as my whole lifestyle is essentially enabling her to get high and sleep until the kids come home. Behavior wth the kids over the last few years has become more volatile. With me, she's usually quite pleasant, loving and supportive. The house looks pretty rough as she's been boycotting all but cooking for longer than I can remember. All that and I love her. Completely. She owns my heart. Want nothing more than for her to get better and really participate in her life.

So what comes next?
What should I be doing?
What boundaries should I be setting that are reasonable and will keep my kids safe?

dandylion

Capn toast....that amount of alcohol on top of an opoid.....that is likely to result in more than her just being passed out....many people die with that amount of mixing of the two.....
This is a really bad situation to keep the teenagers in....

I suggest alanon and a counselor for yourself, right away.
I would ask her to go to detox and then rehab right away....
If it were m e...and, this is just me....I would tell her that she needs to be in detox/rehab right away....or that you are filing for divorce right away...like, tomorrow.
She probably can't stop on her own, at this point...and, you don't want her going into dts or having withdrawl seizures there, at home.....

I almost never say anything this strong to a new poster...but, I believe that this situation is drastic for al lconcerned......

CapnToast

Luckily she is out of the opioid and can't renew until next May (barring any doctor shopping).

dandylion

Capn Toast....in today's world, a person can easily get opoids anywhere, quite easily.....
If you think she cant...that would be very nieve to think so....
In addition, falls are very common for someone this intoxicated...with resultant strokes and hemorrhage, as well as broken bones, etc.
It would not be a bad idea to have advance directives done as well as making plans for any final arrangements, should that become necessary....
I don't say these things to upset you, but, I have seen so many others faced just these kinds of situations....At least, discuss her wishes with her....

CapnToast

Thanks dandelion. Your candor, though terrifying, is sinking in.

dandylion

Capn Toast...I do realize that what I am saying is scary. And, I actually hate to have to do it. You will notice that I have made over eleven thousand posts, here...and, if you were to read through them, you will see that I have a pretty gently touch, as a rule.
I am a medical professional, and have worked with alcoholics, a lot....so, I am familiar with all the stuff that commonly happens. I have witnessed what the loved ones go through, also. And, yes, it can be pretty grim.
Your situation concerns me because there are teenagers in the home...and these kinds of things are what they carry in their memories for the rest of their lives. They will be damaged much more than you, who are already an adult...
It would be good if you took them to alateen, while you go to alanon...and individual counseling can help them, also.....
Also, the thought of her being in that condition, alone, with children in the house, and, you gone, is a very chilling thing to think about...
Drastic situations call for drastic action.....
But, please get professional help...you need a lawyer, a counselor and alanon meetings...for starters.

I am giving you a link to our library of excellent articles on alcoholism and the effects on the loved ones.....see below....

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...c-reading.html (Classic Reading)

Westexy

I'm sorry for what brings you here Capn, but I'm glad that you found this place. If it were me, I think I would see a counselor and an attorney immediately. I know you love your wife, but you have to protect yourself and your children as soon as possible. You don't have to get divorced but you do have to arrange things. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. There's no telling what her reaction will be. You will probably start feeling better when you start taking steps to address the problem. You have friends here. Hoping for peace for you and your family.

CapnToast

I've had some very candid conversations with her today based on some of the advice and other resources on this site and others. Surprisingly compliant and thoughtful (though I'm an actions not words guy). I've gotten the courage to set some boundaries.

If she follows through on 12 step program and is candid with her doctor I'll at least have some hope.

Thanks all

honeypig

Capn, it's a good thing you're an "actions and not words guy." That is the only thing that matters, as I would imagine you know. So many of us here hung on way too long b/c we listened to the words instead of watching the actions.

And along those lines, I'd second what dandy said, about taking action immediately. I wish you strength and clarity, and I hope you continue to read and post here. SR is a great resource for inspiration and education.

CapnToast

I have to ask - multiple recommendations to see an attorney. I'm quite sure you guys have something in mind beyond shooting the breeze at some hourly rate. What is to be done at this stage if you are committed to marriage with boundaries? I will protect my kids and financial security if needed up to and including divorce. Just don't think I've played out the options at this point.

maia1234

Welcome capn, and I'm sorry you are here. We all have walked in your shoes, so we do get it. My axh chose alcohol over a 34 year relationship. It's truly sad watching your loved ones choose addiction over people who love them.

I agree with the other posters, rehab or you are leaving. She will become concerned that she really messed up this time and she better be on her best behavior till things calm down. Sobriety is about growing up, sobering up and working a program. That is what you want and need her to embrace. White knuckling it is not healthy for her and she can have some serious consequences from it.

Read all over the forum and realize what you are up against, it is stronger then all of us. Do what you need to do for the safety of your kids. Don't threaten anything if you don't plan on following through. I hope for her sake she will seek a rehab, but chances are she won't,. Stick around there is a lot of support from some very good people that understand. Hugs

maia1234

Boundaries is a whole can of worms.... boundaries are for us, not the addict, for example....

If I tell the addict I will no longer be around you when you are drunk, you don't tell them what you will do, you just execute your plan. This doesn't mean that you can "stop" the addict from drinking, it means that you leave if you see the addict drunk. You leave the home and go to a friends for the night or a family members home. It is protecting you, that you don't need to witness them a mess.

When you say something to the addict, you follow through and mean it. If she passes out on the floor, leave her there. Don't give her a pillow or blanket, or help her to bed. Leave her. It is not your job to cushion her consequences.

If she throws up or brakes something at night when she is drunk, don't pick it up or clean it up. It is not your job to follow and pick up the mess that our addicts create while drunk. If she is hung over, do not call into work or make excuses for her.

We protect our selves by not enabling a comfortable situation for our addicts to drink, they feel great and we are going crazy. Reach out to an attorney, find out what you are going to be responsible for. If she drives drunk and gets a dui, accident or kills someone this will truly affect your life. Divorce takes a long time, especially when the are spouses are not in a clear state of mind. Education is the most powerful tool you have against addiction. Hugs

FeelingGreat

Capn, she is probably very sincere at this point about seeing the doctor, 12 step etc. but alcoholism can also be a very powerful force. What you call 'boundaries' sound like rules you've given her to follow, or else....

As a recovered A, and comfortable in my recovery, I can tell you it didn't come easily, and not one second before I was ready, years after I realised I had a problem and should stop. Tried many times.

My roundabout point is not to expect miracles because she's trying. Unless she's 100% convinced she needs to do this for herself her chances of succeeding are reduced. This can show up as hiding bottles and sneaking drinks.

If she could get some initial treatment like rehab, then followed by a program she'll at least have some tools in her toolbox.

Something else struck me....I wondered why she's not working apart from in the home? I know it's probably comfortable for everyone to have mum taking care of stuff but it's not a very fulfilling or challenging life once the children are older.

dandylion

Capn Toast....there is a website which I will give you the link to...it is created for women going through divorce....and, I know that you are a m an....but, I am sure th at lots of the information can apply to both sexes....
It is educational in nature, and it is arranged by state. It is not meant to replace a lawyer, but, it can be a place to help organize your thoughts and know what questions to ask a lawyer.. It covers most every area of concern in a divorce.
It, also, gives you links as to where to find lawyers, etc...and, how to select a lawyer....

www.womansdivorce.com

I am not saying you have to divorce...that is your choice...but, it pays to know all of your rights and her rights...
As maia points out, divorce can take a long time...and it can be put on hold at any time in the process, so it provides a lot of time before final decisions are made.....

I cannot agree strongly enough, that just white knuckling is not a good thing...
sometimes, the alcoholic can put down the bottle for a while...but, invariably, relapse will happen...And, an occasional AA meeting is not enough.
She may try to "bargain" with you...offer a symbol of attempt, without whole heartedly entering a program...
Or, offer to go to a "counselor" or want to get into couples therapy....I don't suggest that you bite on any of those...for one thing, most marriage counselors won't see a couple, together, until the alcohol/addiction issues are dealt with....they want to see couples who are sober and clean.
***an individual counselor is gine...as long as it is combined with a program for sobriety.
She is going to need to be detoxed....and, the first step is to talk to her doctor about how to do this. Some rehab programs have detox as the first step in their treatment....
Another option might be to detox in a medical facility, like a hospital...and, then, transfer to a rehab facility...
There is such a thing as an in home detox, but, that can be very tricky, and should have a doctor to supervise it....a person should have someone with them at all times, if this is done....

I know that you say that you love your wife...and, I don't doubt that...But, I think it is good to remember that love is not enough, when dealing with an addict (to anything). Making strong boundaries does not mean that you don't love your spouse. Sometimes, love means that you HAVE to make strong boundaries. Love, alone, won't save her life or the marriage....
to my way of thinking....saving her life, and providing a healthy home for your children should be the first priority.....along with your own welfare, of course....

Hawkeye13

Hi Capn--I am reposting something I just wrote on another thread as
it is a snapshot from both points of view--I've been the drinker and the enabler.

"I've been on both sides of this Alan, and quite honestly, as long as my husband
was willing to "help" me I kept drinking.

I also "managed" and suffered from dealing with my mother's drinking for most of my life, just as you're doing
for your wife, and she never stopped.

In my case, I was given what tomsteve is calling "the gift of desperation"
when my spouse told me he was done with managing my drinking and my marriage
was at risk to end for good.

That's when I finally, finally chose to get serious and deal with my problem.
I detoxed at home (dangerous, but it worked) essentially on my own
as he was quite angry at this point due to my actions drinking.

Then I made a recovery plan of what to do with my time besides drink
and started doing it. For me, that included taking walks in Nature,
joining a gym, eating well, starting to read novels again.
I also began keeping a journal and working with recovery materials to identify the core issues,
took a short run of cognitive therapy, and worked to begin feeling my feelings instead of stuffing them,
It was a self-actualized homestudy in learning how to live life sober, warts and all.

I didn't have the time or money for a rehab, but I did have the fundamental
willingness to stop putting my addiction before my marriage and myself
and deal with it. If your wife doesn't have that--choose that--no rehab
or hospital will ever work for any length of time. Truly.

Your point about her being deep into drunkeness and not being "able" to choose rationally
goes only so far. At some point free will is part of this--I chose to drink
and continue drinking, and quite frankly, it was my right to do so but not
my right to expect my spouse to "manage" me at the expense of his own life and happiness.

I regret this deeply now, and our marriage has healed and recovered
because I am in charge of me, and he is in change of himself, and not me anymore.

No "support" my husband could offer when I drank was ever enough.
It just gave me room to keep destroying myself, though I know
it was given with love. Frankly, I took advantage of that in my addiction.

You and she both have a role in this toxic dance.
I did exactly what my husband did for me for my mother--enabled her to drink
in the name of protecting her from herself and her "bad" choices.
I did not respect her as an adult who can choose her own life, or death
if it comes to it.

Hard as it seems, moving out of the situation and stopping the rescue
may be the thing that galvanizes her into action to deal with her own addiction.
If it doesn't come from her, it won't work.

She also may choose to keep drinking, and that is also her choice as an adult.
Trying to control her to manage your guilt in case that happens is a no-win for both of you.

I understand why and that you just want to help her--to give her a chance.
It's a terrible place to be. Some counseling with an alcohol specialist might shed
light here or attending some Alanon meetings is another option.

Wishing both of you peace and healing "


Capn, this whole cycle started for me growing up with an alcoholic parent.
Please think about how this kind of behavior is impacting your children.
As someone else said, you are an adult but this kind of thing can really
have a lifetime effect on children / teens--it sure did me.

hopeful4

Hello, you have gotten some feedback here, so I am just going to welcome you. I am sorry for what brings you here, but glad you are here.

My input is going to be to watch your children VERY closely, don't let her drive them at all, and get them into counseling so they have someone other than yourself to navigate this with. The affect addiction has on children is absolutely awful. They deserve a healthy and happy life. I would say a counselor for you would be a good thing as well. Alone, without your wife. With someone who is very familiar with addiction and what it does to families.

viola71

You asked about seeing a lawyer and what they can actually do. In my state we do not have legal separation so I had to file for divorce but the process can move forward or stand still whatever I want no time limitations. The lawyer will get in writing an agreement that you and your children have the rights to stay in the home and that your spouse does not, meaning you can enforce this order when you feel like it. They can also separate finances via an order so at least you and your children will have something if your spouse spirals out of control. I also took out an umbrella insurance policy to cover our personal "wealth" from being attached to a lawsuit I did this in case my AH killed someone while driving. I had my first meeting with my lawyer on my 21st wedding anniversary I know how difficult it can be. A person in true recovery will understand the means you go to to protect your children. Please do not hesitate. Good luck lots of prayers coming your way.

honeypig

This is exactly why you need to see a lawyer. What if you lost all your savings to legal expenses after a DUI where someone was injured or killed? What if she doesn't titrate her alcohol/narcotic combo exactly right one night and ends up in a coma--will you sell your home and raid your kids' college fund to pay the medical costs? There is no guarantee that our alcoholics/addicts will follow a consistent and predictable trajectory as they spiral down. She might stay as she is for years, and then again, she might have that car accident or overdose tonight; there is no way to know.

My impression, from reading your posts, is that you've gradually become accustomed to this awful situation and see it as not so far removed from "normal", really....but it IS far removed from normal, very far removed, and even farther from healthy. That's not so unusual, and I know I can relate to it myself--I think of all the times I questioned whether it was unreasonable for me to want my husband to not lie to me constantly and to not spend money from our savings w/o my knowledge or consent. Sounds stupid to me now--really, who would settle for that kind of treatment? Well, me, that's who, for years and years.

But just b/c I came to accept that as my "normal" sure didn't mean that it WAS normal, and certainly not healthy, not in the least.

hopeful4

My advise legally is to document every single thing so that if this does go to court you can do whatever you need to protect your children. Document, document, document.

tomsteve

glad yer here,Capn. im one who's been on both sides of the fence- the practicing alcoholic and the one in a relationship with a practicing alcoholic( and wouldnt ya know it, THAT relationship happened after i got sober- i sure got a whole crapton of what i gave when i was drinkin!).

what dandylion says here- its like she knew me.
but more than likely its that the actions of an alcoholic arent unique to just me.
rationalize, compromise, apologize. ALWAYS when the heat was on. i would "im sorry" and "i promise" and " im going to.." every time the heat was on.
when the heat got turned down, the sneaking started. at one time i had a little 12' by 12' shed/woodshop. i had a shopvac i used to clean up when i was workin. i was living in a mobile home community( thats high class tailer park talk. ) and we had some dumpsters at the front of the community for our garbage. the shop vac needed to be emptied every day. some days i actually just let it run to make it sound like i was cleaning up.
soooo, id put it in the bed fo my truck, run it up and dump it, then off to the store for a 12 pack and bag of ice, which fit inside a shop vac nicely.
and my fiance couldnt see the 12 pack comin into the shop, where id just happen to have a "project" i was workin late on.
the heat would get turned off and id casually mention havin a beer. shed say,"well, go get a 6 pack then."
which some times id buy a half pint AND a six pack, drink some out of the half pint and push it under my truck seat before i got back.
eventually back to the full blown insanity.

trust isnt something to give because someone says "i promise" or "im going to_________".
trust isnt something to give because someone has had some actions for a week.
trust is earned over T.I.M.E.
and sometimes never happens.

for me, nothing changed because nothing changed over putting down the bottle. i was a dry drunk.
and returned back to drinking in short order, dragging everyone and anyone who was around me down with me.