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Alcoholic fiance left me after everything for another, richer guy



Alcoholic fiance left me after everything for another, richer guy

Old 10-17-2017, 12:35 PM
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GoodGuy.....I believe you to be grieving, and, of course, rumination is one of the things that are a part of it....I would expect you to be grieving for the next several months, at various levels and intensity......all normal and expected....

I do hope that you are letting yourself to have access to your emotional self....as much as your intellectual self. Being male and an intellectualizer, at baseline, I hope that you don't keep your emotion on too tight of a hold.

Therefore, I am going to share , with you, the exercise that I call the "wailing wall". It gives relief...at least, in the immediate sense, and I have used it, myself. It works for those who actually do it....

One must first find a place of the privacy...such as the seashore, the edge of the forest, an isolated parking lot, the top of a hill or mountain...etc.
Then one pretends...visualizes...that the person/persons in question are seated a few feet in front of you.....
Then, one begins to say whatever they want to communicate to the person, straight from the gut. Totally uncensored, and no holds barred!
It is o.k. to scream and cry....let all the anger and questions just come forth. Let the hurting and vulnerable underbelly speak out!....
Scream until your throat is hoarse, and until the snot runs down your face.....
Totally good to sound "Krazy" . Curse the Universe or God if that is what you feel....
One must do this until exhaustion....or, that the intense emotion just runs out.....

There were times, when I was where you are, now, that this was the only thing that helped...
It allows the emotion to bypass the frontal lobes.....and you get to "reboot" yourself.....

Try it. It might be a little scary for you to think about doing this....being that you use your frontal lobes so much to protect yourself.....but, I encourage you, even more to do it, because you need it even more......
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Old 10-17-2017, 12:40 PM
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I think the scenario you should prepare yourself for is, if/when she does happened to return. Then what? If you are not on healthy ground with your thinking then you will buy into what she’s going to sell you. Most often they come back because…………………………….

The new person tossed them out, ended the relationship.

They are out of money.

They are out of enablers and need one again.

They have no place to live.

They have no car/car insurance.

They are running from the law.

And most importantly…………THEY ARE STILL USING/DRINKING no matter what they try and sell you!!!!

The sales pitch goes something like this, I miss you, I love you, I will do anything for you/us, I will go to rehab, long term, meetings, and counseling – whatever it takes I Promise, I swear, I really want it this time and I NEED you, I WANT you to help me.

The next chapter goes something like this, plausibly excuses on why they can’t go to rehab or a long-term rehab or even out-patient. They need money so they put working at the top of list because after all booze/drugs cost money.

You think they are trying and all of your wishes seem to becoming true.

Reality and truth is, if they really wanted to get clean/sober they would just do it. They wouldn’t need your/our help, they just all on their own find a way and they make it work if that is what they truly want. They don’t need the drama of a big return with a scripted speech and acting out the role of who they think you want them to be.

Just ask many of the member here how many times they participated in the addicts play.

The Devil doesn’t come dressed in a red cape and pointed horns. He comes as everything you’ve ever wished for!!! So be careful for what you wish for and what you are not prepared for.
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Old 10-17-2017, 01:38 PM
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Thank you again for the replies. Each one points out something new and very relevant.

The threat of leaving her was only in the last month or two, and when she refused to stop, I used this as a way to convey severity. I never could actually bring myself to do it, but I did end up having her leave the house. The future between us was not off the table by any means at this point.

Dandylion, I do let me emotions flow, but this exercise may be exactly what I need, because sometimes I do hold back. atalose, you are exactly right, and I think I need to prepare for this eventuality as real. It may not be soon, but I should start to think about how I would handle it. Whatever conditions would bring her to think of me, she will see that I was an unconditional loving person towards her. It could go two ways...One where she is genuine, and has already began to pursue recovery...or the other which is the devil in sheeps clothing (aka still drinking).

It is evident from the people I have talked to that she is under the impression she is being judged. The reality is that no one was judging her for any of this, we all supported her in recovery and wanted nothing less than for her to pursue success in life. This is where there is clear distortion (among many other things). This distortion allows her to make choices that she believes are good, and she wont be judged for. These are words of her friends. This likely means that the guy she is with doesn't judge her for drinking, and making these choices (since he clearly made them with her). Whereas, no one in her support group was judging, but now are questioning her choices/don't support the drinking...she probably can't confront this that who she thought would all support her do not and hence run from it all. It makes it easier to forget everyone and move on. In fact, I am told, she isn't thinking much of me, or mentioning me. This lends to the idea of mentally blocking it out so that you can go on unjudged with a new person (however untrue it may be).

Her poor mother is dealing with the fact that she may never see her daughter again, and only wants to know she is alive. She feels used, and is trying to only support her now from a distance. In fact, she doesn't approve or like what she has become. I told her mother of this site the other day, and that she should get on here ASAP.

Again, here I am though, speaking of everyone but me...I can't help it at this point. Its not the "gossip tidbits" that I am enjoying in some sick way...Instead it is just the search for answers about the others behaviors. It is pretty clear that she is doing something with regard to her addiction (drinking, or maybe new drugs), but the extent is unknown. I recall it only took max about a month before she was worse than the last time. If this is the case, then maybe she is already down that rabbit hole...but as many of you said, if not immediately, well it will eventually come back, and likely worse than before. I do pray for her, and love her, and most of all want her to find her peace. But this does not seem to be the route to peace, it seems like self destruction.

Last edited by GoodguyJoel; 10-17-2017 at 01:42 PM. Reason: corrected sentence
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Old 10-17-2017, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GoodguyJoel View Post
Tomsteve:

She did display things that could be characterized as narcissism. In fact, she used to claim that she is a manipulator. That she "only used it for good" but that she knew she had this skill. Being pretty, and outgoing, it was easy for her to get what she wanted. My brothers wife told me a story of one time where she, my ex, and my mother were all talking about someone they knew having a great success in their job, and how wonderful it was. Then my ex jumped in the conversation and said "I just did XYZ!" My brothers wife was taken aback by this saying that it was kind of unnecessary and totally out of place since the conversation wasn't about her. Unfortunately, this was common place. Since I was doing my doctorate, and she was for a long time not doing anything with herself, there were many times where she seeked attention, and spoke very highly of her skills, almost trying to prove to me that she was of equal import. I never once looked down on her or anyone for that matter for not having equal education, as I believe educations such as mine are only useful if you really know what you want to do. That being said, I think this left her feeling inadequate. When reality was, I was just a poor graduate student, with a hopeful future. Likewise, with her real estate endeavors, she imagined she would be selling million dollar houses within only a few months of developing her own company. When this failed, it was too much for her to handle and really dove into drinking.

The grandiosity of this type of thinking then, and her current situation (now, with saying she is going to move to Miami and do real estate) is very evident to me now. It is not like you would go to one of the largest real estate locations on the planet, and have instant success. She always figured she could do it on her own, and was too good to work under a boss. A realistic approach would be to join a team, and work for years developing skills and connections, then venturing off on your own. But her claims are not grounded in a realistic view of how the world, and business works.

The reason I am explaining this is not to just tear her down, it is because in addition to her sober behavior, which lots of it was "all about her," the elements of narcissism were exacerbated through alcohol. This leads me then to how she discarded me, and moved on immediately. The idea of narcissistic supply is very relevant here, where a person who doesn't get what they want (immediate gratification), can easily discard that source (me/her family) to find someone who will give her that positive view of herself that is unrealistic. It isn't that myself/her family weren't positive, we would try to help her stay in reality saying that hard work is required for the things we want. And often times, this was too much, and hence turned to drinking. The coping skills aren't there...and this is where I find myself saying I was let go because she was not only not feeling positive about herself after multiple bouts of huge insobriety, but also that she would have to face the damage she had done. This makes sense that a person with these characteristics would flee instead of confront their issues. This also makes me wonder of her inadequacy feelings...like if she just gets with a guy who is of equal education, but is more successful than me, then she "wins." Such is the case with the person she ran off with (at least his current monetary situation).

I know I only give a few examples here, but could obviously list more. And as time went on, I saw how this behavior, mixed with depression, alcohol, and lack of self worth can lead a person to be very unstable. Finding this guy and leaving with him feels to me like she is looking for a clean start, but geographical changes don't fix who you are, you follows you. As for their relationship...well I can't speak to that currently, and that's why I ask about if anyone knows much about rehab romances...their success rates/failure rates, and what I should expect of such a change.

Let me know if any of you have more focused thoughts on that issue in particular. Thank you.
Most people I have met in recovery have described the same kind of behaviour and thinking while in active alcoholism. Sad to say I was the same.

Noone can talk about their relationship. We don't know either of them. It's unlikely to be happy in the long term, but while it enables both of them to drink and use as they obviously have chosen to do (from day one out of the rehab facility) then it will probably 'do'. Active alcoholics aren't emotionally available. They'll just be bumbling along, with notions of grand romance no doubt. Who knows how it'll end? Not us. Not you. Not them. I suggest that you make the choice to alter the directions of your thoughts when this comes to your head. It will seem impossible and strange at first. But it is possible. Going over and over these kind of unanswerable questions is just going to extend your misery, and all these 'what ifs' are like little seeds for resentment that you're planting. Keeping it 'in the day' is spoken of a lot in recovery, and for good reason. As one of my AA grandaddies told me.. "BB if you spend your time with one foot in the past and one foot in the future, one thing's for sure, and that's that you're going to p*** all over today."

As your counsellor suggested. You don't need to shut the door, but also don't tand there watching out of it. While you're asking all these questions and hoping one of us can / will feed that hope or give an idea of what you can change / do to make it more likely, what you are doing is standing at that door gazing after her. So. You've left the door open. She knows where it is. Perhaps at some point you'll change your mind and shut it. Who knows. You don't need to decide anything right now.

So - what are you doing today that might include a bit of fun, or fulfillment for you?

BB
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Old 10-18-2017, 12:51 AM
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Hey Joel,

Hi, how you doing? I just wanted to tell you that I was married for 26 years. All of a sudden it was like I felt like my ex husband hated me. I'm not saying there weren't flags before then, there were. I tried so hard to understand all of that. I read books, I talked to people, I tried to turn myself into something that I wasn't so that he would love me.

I have a scientific, mathematical mind. I needed to know why. I questioned everything till I was making myself nuts. I'm pretty sure my ex has a Borderline Personality Disorder, but I really don't care anymore. I could not make sense out of non sense. I think sometimes, we need to focus more on ourselves then to try to figure out someone else. We need to think about what we want in life, instead of how you might be able to survive a life with someone else.

It's a hard thing to let go of trying to get an answer, or validation, but sometimes we just need to do that, for our own sanity.

((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))
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Old 10-18-2017, 07:56 AM
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I think you are overthinking it trying to find so many reasons WHY. I usto do that as well.

My friend, the why is because she is a selfish addict. Nothing else. Please put this energy you are putting on HER back to YOU, and get some help for yourself. Like atalose said above, be working to prepare what will happen so you are strong enough to avoid that mess for when she comes running back. Not out of love for you, but because she has used up everyone else.

Hugs. I say this gently because I know you are hurting.
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Old 10-18-2017, 02:23 PM
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Thank you again for your responses. They truly do help put things in perspective. Please bear in mind this only happened a month ago now...and today we would be celebrating a monthaversary together so it’s tough. We would have been engaged for one year a month from now, and I haven’t heard from her in just about two weeks. I don’t expect to either, or at least would be surprised to. But I’m not currently chasing, nor in contact.

It’s interesting though...today, ironically, two of her best girlfriends, her sister, and her mother all reached out to me today. One of her friends just letting me know she hasn’t talked to her, and simply can’t press send to text her. She also asked how I was doing. The other friend wants to catch up since we last talked about two weeks ago, and has similar sentiments. The sister wants to chat, and the mother and I talked for a bit on the phone. All these poor folks are heart broken, confused, and hurt by her actions. But many, including the mom, have decided to just keep their distance. It is a sad reality to realize how good of friends and family she has when they care so much but are helpless, just as I am. Ironically, these people all think the world of me, and care enough to wonder how I am, for which I am grateful. In some small way, this makes me feel good.

The mom doesn’t approve of what she’s doing, but there is nothing she can say to change it. I asked her if she ever had her doubts of me, and she said no, that we were all very proud, but that I****(her) has something deep in her eating away at her long before me. Although when getting my doctorate, I**** and I had long conversations about it, and she agreed it was the right thing to do, supported me, was so proud, but in the end the mom thinks she wasn’t overly approving (funny fact-the mom wrote me a letter of recommendation to get into grad school!). So, although this is speculation, we have to consider that maybe the things she deflected upon such as some minute things like “me not putting a soap dispenser away” and some maybe questionably bigger things like “finishing my doctorate” we’re just ways of saying she wasn’t happy with herself, and the mom agreed.

The grandiosity of thinking there is a perfect love out there as one member wrote of is probably part of the alcohol, but the deeper issues seem to be haunting her...and maybe she thinks in her hazy way that running away will solve that. However selfish it is. I know nothing she will experience will be as organic, or loving as our relationship was when it was very good (until she wasn't sober regularly). This is what I hope she comes to find.

I read quotes a lot lately, that are uplifting to me, but also think some apply to her way of thinking in a distorted way...this being one: “if you don’t like who I am or what I’m doing with my life, that’s alright. I’m not living for you, I am living for myself”. While I can see the positivity in this, and how it should apply to all people, I look at how she would take this...and essentially think this is exactly what she’s doing. But a normal person would say “sure I should live for myself, but not destroy everyone else along the way, or hurt or leave my loved ones.”

I say currently that I am living my life for me, not for her, and especially not for the decisions of a raving alcoholic. I mean no offense to you out there struggling with this still, but for a person who does not share this problem, and sees the selfishness of addiction, I can’t help but say “damn it, I didn’t deserve this!”

Today is a day of some clarity and not overly heavy emotions(at least not yet). It is days like today that I can see clearer the bigger picture, and the good people that still care about me that she left behind.

It doesn’t mean I’m not wondering what she’s doing, or that my love for her has diminished. It just means I don’t have a choice with what she does. It means I have a choice with what I do. And I have connected with some really great people lately that have some very positive attributes and thinking. If she could have only cleaned up, she would be part of this new happiness(or at least a wink of happiness in all this darkness). But that’s not my loss, it’s hers. I’m becoming a better person, and she is losing out. Hell she is still drinking and making outrageous plans with a person she knows nothing about other than that they are addicts like her! I know we can’t predict the future, but good luck finding someone as patient as me! I don’t want to toot my own horn, but although I wasn’t perfect, who is? I was pretty damn awesome to her. I accept this reality of imperfection, I accepted it for me, for her, her addiction and financial woes, and other things. It’s just part of life. The hope is that maybe she will appreciate this some day. I know her mom said that when she talked to her a bit ago, she (not mom) was concerned about the new guy going through some tough things...well, she should have seen this coming, you’re both addicts with problems! After this weekend where I have a trip with my brothers and dad to Austin, TX, I will start writing down what I want, what I think of her, how I feel, and start to think about what I would say to her when/if she calls me. I think this is a very real possibility, or at least 50/50 chance. So I better think this through. Likewise, I am going to try the wailing wall, I think tomorrow morning before I leave so I can get it all out there.

Today I am strong, and today is all I can take care of. I’m sure I’ll be back on here sobbing or searching eventually, but today I am strong. Today, I don’t have a problem with someone else’s issues. Thank you everyone. Sorry for the long post, but I had to say this! Please keep the responses coming, it helps to know I’m not alone, and I really appreciate the recovering individuals for pointing out their similar traits when using, it helps to know that she isn’t unique in her actions/words....that this is par for the course(in some weird terrible way for her). I don’t feel alone thanks to all of you, and that counts for so much in my eyes.

Keep the comments, ideas, thoughts coming! Please!
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Old 10-18-2017, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GoodguyJoel View Post
I understand there is a very real prospect that she may recover with this person.
There's not. People who truly loved her set up and paid for the rehab where she chose not to rehab. Instead of participating in recovery she's chucked it all and run off with another addict to do "real estate" while drunk. She's already tried to do drunken real estate before and crashed and burned. I doubt this time will be any different.

She's shown you what she wants and who she is. That's her truth. She most likely cheated on you. Her new "love" will be a much better fit for her as he is also an addict and therefore they can enable each other all day, every day. Much easier for her than having to apologise to you, her mother and all the other people she has cheated.

IF she decides to crawl back to you it won't be because she's had a revelation or anything like that. It will be because she's crashed and burned again and needs YOU to enable her.

You've actually been given a lucky break. Being married to an active alcoholic is not romantic, it's not a happy life at all. It's misery. She's shown you who she is in spectacular fashion and now it's time to believe her.
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:06 AM
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GGJ, I'd like to direct you to this thread: https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ths-later.html (6 months later)

Do you know how to find other threads/posts by a certain member? I think you might find a good deal of help in reading HeartbrokenGuy's story from the start.
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Old 10-23-2017, 10:02 AM
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Hi everyone,

Just thought I would add an update. Again, I appreciate all your thoughts and comments. Went out for a weekend away from home in Austin, TX for the USGP with my dad and brothers. It was a much needed break, however intensely I am engulfed with my studies. My mind was so wound up in the details of everything happening that I truly see the damage her decisions have had. I managed to take my mind off of this and enjoy my family and get engulfed in a very exciting and lively setting. I must say, what an experience.

Ironically, while I was there, she called me twice, and texted me “call me back” “please”. I didn’t answer and instantly was thrown back into wondering, and it took some time to get back into the excitement. The sad thing to me this time was that she knew I had this trip coming, and I doubt she knows or cares. Let alone knowing the effect she would have on calling me. Just when I think things are starting to look up, she creeps back, even if it is just a call or two and texts. I don’t know what she wants as she left no message and only those texts...but I think it is safe to say it isn’t anything pertaining to us. I’m guessing there is something she wants or to tell me something that won’t make anything better. Last I heard from her friend was she seems to have no regrets, and mentions no one from back home, including me. That she is moving forward with her plan for Miami.

I’m glad I didn’t take the call, but of course my mind still wonders. I wonder if she feels guilt or shame, or even remorse or misses me. But only time will tell because she would likely just say it if she did. Hence the probability that she is just calling because she wants the dog or something else. I woke up today traveling home having a sick feeling of heading home to the place where all this bad is still present. It’s almodt like I wish I could permanently escape, but I know it’s not healthy to grieve and feel what I need to feel. I am seeing how badly I have been treated, and everyone else. Just wish things turned out differently. It’s funny how I would have done anything to keep this together, and she replaces me immediately in the hopes of grand romance and grandiose plans. I see how my head is on straight about building a career and making a life that is worth living. Honesty, charity, caring, sharing, depth, emotion, trust, and love. Just some of the things I have taken as important.

I can’t help but wonder how badly she is drinking, and hope she finds peace and also sees in time how things really were between us. How rare it truly was. That I am very worthy.

The talk of the honey moon phase wearing off also has me wondering still. Much of the relationship reading I have done says if you go from one relationship to another that you will often end up where you were previously, in this case I mean that she will end up in her bad spot with drinking. Especially with an enabling addict. I’m still not angry...just have a sick feeling that maybe the “miss you” or “I made a mistake” may happen. But as you all said, she is in no place to address her emotions, or the emotions of others.

Back home in a few hours from now...and I have to get back to my work full force. I have to get our puppy, and have to face that strong emotion again, as well as the empty house haunted with the ghost of her. I do have an empty sick feeling...and I don’t know what to do with myself lots of the time. But I do get to come back with some great stories and great memories, so I think I will share those with friends and take it day by day again.
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Old 10-23-2017, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by GoodguyJoel View Post
Much of the relationship reading I have done says if you go from one relationship to another that you will often end up where you were previously, in this case I mean that she will end up in her bad spot with drinking.
"Wherever you go, you take Yourself with you." (Neil Gaiman)

No matter how she changes her life situation, her geography, the people & places she associates with - she's still the same person in every situation. She may hold it together for a while, hiding her dysfunction among the "newness" of everything, but underneath it all she's fundamentally the same. Nothing changes until something changes, right?
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Old 10-23-2017, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by GoodguyJoel View Post
Hi everyone,

Just thought I would add an update. Again, I appreciate all your thoughts and comments. Went out for a weekend away from home in Austin, TX for the USGP with my dad and brothers. It was a much needed break, however intensely I am engulfed with my studies. My mind was so wound up in the details of everything happening that I truly see the damage her decisions have had. I managed to take my mind off of this and enjoy my family and get engulfed in a very exciting and lively setting. I must say, what an experience.

Ironically, while I was there, she called me twice, and texted me “call me back” “please”. I didn’t answer and instantly was thrown back into wondering, and it took some time to get back into the excitement. The sad thing to me this time was that she knew I had this trip coming, and I doubt she knows or cares. Let alone knowing the effect she would have on calling me. Just when I think things are starting to look up, she creeps back, even if it is just a call or two and texts. I don’t know what she wants as she left no message and only those texts...but I think it is safe to say it isn’t anything pertaining to us. I’m guessing there is something she wants or to tell me something that won’t make anything better. Last I heard from her friend was she seems to have no regrets, and mentions no one from back home, including me. That she is moving forward with her plan for Miami.

I’m glad I didn’t take the call, but of course my mind still wonders. I wonder if she feels guilt or shame, or even remorse or misses me. But only time will tell because she would likely just say it if she did. Hence the probability that she is just calling because she wants the dog or something else. I woke up today traveling home having a sick feeling of heading home to the place where all this bad is still present. It’s almodt like I wish I could permanently escape, but I know it’s not healthy to grieve and feel what I need to feel. I am seeing how badly I have been treated, and everyone else. Just wish things turned out differently. It’s funny how I would have done anything to keep this together, and she replaces me immediately in the hopes of grand romance and grandiose plans. I see how my head is on straight about building a career and making a life that is worth living. Honesty, charity, caring, sharing, depth, emotion, trust, and love. Just some of the things I have taken as important.

I can’t help but wonder how badly she is drinking, and hope she finds peace and also sees in time how things really were between us. How rare it truly was. That I am very worthy.

The talk of the honey moon phase wearing off also has me wondering still. Much of the relationship reading I have done says if you go from one relationship to another that you will often end up where you were previously, in this case I mean that she will end up in her bad spot with drinking. Especially with an enabling addict. I’m still not angry...just have a sick feeling that maybe the “miss you” or “I made a mistake” may happen. But as you all said, she is in no place to address her emotions, or the emotions of others.

Back home in a few hours from now...and I have to get back to my work full force. I have to get our puppy, and have to face that strong emotion again, as well as the empty house haunted with the ghost of her. I do have an empty sick feeling...and I don’t know what to do with myself lots of the time. But I do get to come back with some great stories and great memories, so I think I will share those with friends and take it day by day again.

I meant that it is not healthy to run from emotion and that I should grieve and face the emotion. Sorry, was writing this in a busy airport.
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Old 10-23-2017, 11:32 PM
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Hey Goodguy.....did you ever get in the "wailing wall"? I am glad that you got some good experiences in with your peeps.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:36 AM
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Dandylion-

I tried it for a short period of time before I left on my trip. Man did I let loose. However, I was interrupted because I couldn't not take a call related to work. I gathered myself and called them back.

My plan is to do this properly by ensuring I will have no interruptions. It is not an easy thing to do, but I can see why it would be very beneficial. As I stated in my last reply, it is not so much anger as it is sadness and confusion. The self blame is hard to move past, and is always on my mind as of now.

Even if I do this, and it helps to straighten my thoughts, I am still wondering what the future holds. And I still feel very alone. I am wondering why she called...what could she possibly want? I get the feeling it isn't anything regarding positive emotion towards me. This is why I didn't answer. However, I still am wondering if she feels anything at all towards me, or if this send off was all just an alcoholic doing what alcoholics do...run, blame, replace.

It has now been one month and 10 days, and I am not really in a better place, but the questions you have all had me ponder have definitely helped to stand back and reanalyze what is/was really going on. It seems like many people who deal with similar situations end up looking back and saying "thank god," but I still wish she would have been reasonable and tried to work through guilt, any hardship in the relationship she may have felt, and worked on recovery with me as her number one supporter.

Being home made me break down today, and realize just how traumatic someone doing such a thing truly is. I did have a great trip, but that is just a bandaid. Reality is still so unclear, yet I am a clear headed person, which makes me think about how difficult being an addict truly is. The constant internal fight, the choices that seem right in the moment, but may not be in the long term, or even choices that only benefit them, and leave zero empathy for others in their wake (no offense to other active alcoholics). It truly is a disease of the highest caliber, like cancer, and when mixed with other personality issues, it just is a freight train to disaster. I hate thinking that she may be happier with someone else, but I do know that it isn't as pure and genuine as we were. They met out of tragedy, and lied and ruined lives to bring themselves together. Any rational person would likely question if this is a good idea, just as all her family and friends have done, including me. The thorn in the side is that the mother of her is truly turning against me, telling her daughter she is making the best choice for her. Paying for things for her, when she outright said she is using her mother. If I were the parent, I would be incredibly skeptical of anything she says or does after what happened. It seems as though the "blood is thicker than water" idea runs true, even if the person despises you, or treats you terribly and lies about you. I feel bad for the mother because shes in a predicament...don't help and lose your daughter, help her, and she doesn't learn any responsibility or self love and you may still lose her. I have no hard feelings towards the family, but I don't like knowing that the mom can say to the A-ex that she had to make changes, and particularly with regard to me. That getting rid of me might be the best choice. When I talked to her last, I confronted her on this (kindly), and she told me it simply isnt up to her (the mom). But what I hear from others is her patting the daughter on the back saying your doing good. How can she do this with the disrespect for all involved? How can she financially support her when it is still enabling? I guess I wont know until this all plays out.

I never did wrong to these people, and I only did my best always for the daughter. I get that I may not have been able to put as much time into the relationship during tough times in the PhD program, but hell, I didn't even get to put time into me! This was an acknowledged fact. And all a rational person would have said is "this is tough, and we need to work through some things." I would have made the time, space, and effort...but at this point, the alcohol was dominating.

So here I am again, questioning...knowing I may never get answers. I may never get the "I miss you, love you, and made a mistake." But as you all point out, she isn't emotionally available to do these things. And furthermore, there is minimal self love (other than the narcissistic behavior), but not true self love...because if you don't love yourself, then it shows up in how you treat others.

I still miss her. I wonder what she is doing. And wonder if she thinks of me and our dog, and what our future was to be. But it is more likely she can't even look into these things. Especially with another person to grasp onto.

Just some thoughts of mine... Any thoughts from all of you, or comments, as usual would always be appreciated. Thank you.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:46 AM
  # 55 (permalink)  
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They can still enable her because she is their child. And unless you have any children you just cannot understand how hard it is for a parent to accept addiction and accept that there is nothing they can do to help their own child.

It's not you personally. Their involvement is with her, not you.

I know it's hard, and you can question away, but your logical mind is never ever (hopefully anyways, don't become an addict) going to be able to follow her addicted mind, and how her own issues work in her mind. She is #1 for herself and you just don't work in the same way.

In all, it's been a very short duration. I know it may seem like a long time, but in reality, it's been a short time to allow yourself to grieve. And to stay in contact with her AND/OR her family only makes things worse for you, I promise.

I say this all gently because I know you are hurting.
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Old 10-24-2017, 10:24 AM
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GoodGuy.....I think that all of these thoughts, questions, and feelings, are normal for where you are, right now.....
When I was going through this...the only clinical term that I can think of to summarize it, is, that, I was a hot blubbering "mess"....
I had a very demanding job, and kids still in the home. I was considered to be a responsible person. OMG--while at work, I had to have a smiling face, and appear to have it all together. I was taking care of other people....
I know that many times, I had people in my office, that I was helping...and, I think that I was worse off than them. If they only knew!
Looking back--I was really bad off for about 6 months....before the tide began to turn in a major way.....By one year later, my life was totally different....
It was about that time that I met, totally unexpectedly, the man that would become my future wonderful husband.....

At your stage,,,I felt like I was an emotional kalidescope(sp?). It felt confusing, painful, and exhausting.
That was when I discovered the wailing wall, for myself. That gave me periods of relief. It helped to externalize the excess negative emotion that I was feeling, inside....
The idea actually came from other religions and cultures who incorporated that technique into the rituals for the grieving.
I had a couple of songs that I used, over and over, that helped me to connect and feel the emotions on an emotional level...outside of the exhausting intellectualizing. I felt like they were a conduit for connecting with my emotions, and, let them flow...to get them out....
(I only listened to them when I knew I was in a "safe" and private place...not when I was expected to have it all together)......

I will give you the links to them...but, don't listen to them unless you are in your own "safe" place......

https://www.bing.com/search?q=youtub...269b8cea050b79

https://www.bing.com/search?q=youtub...e1addce6e0af24
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Old 10-24-2017, 10:28 AM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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Hi Joel

Just want to say keep up the progress.

Its still very early but you are doing well to pick up the advice.

Although my own breakup was very hard on me - if forced me to have the space I really needed. The space to grow me. The space to heal me. The space to listen to myself because i ignored it all the time. I lived only for my addict never for myself and giving a choice would've happily done so to my last breath. I didn't know any better to be fair to myself. The situation was the best I had at the time.

I have grown tremendously emotionally and with life. I now live an independent life and I worked on my own issues that I kept hidden far far away because my addict was my bandaid to my feelings and failures. I believed in the dream that wasn't really there. I was in a fog of denial. And nobody on this earth could've convinced otherwise to leave the addict. Nobody, not even my own misery. I was loyal and stubborn to a fault. It took a breakup and heartache.

So perhaps after time has passed you will feel similar. That she gave you a gift of space. Perhaps there was too much emotions involved, too much focus on the addict and also denial. Like it was with me.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:54 PM
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Joel, I've come to this thread way late, but wanted to give a few words of encouragement.

When you come across situations like this it's like a call to go deeper; dig deep. Of course this makes no sense....addiction is tenacious, cunning, baffling. That guy may have more money or appear to have more money....but it's not all it's cracked up to be....it could just be he doesn't do anything to make her really look at her addiction honestly and she can go on in her addiction and feel somewhat "supported" by him....either financially or otherwise or both. You've indicated that he is an addict too.

But, think about this: Is he really "richer"? I put richer in quotes for a reason. Why? Because some of the "richest" things don't cost a dime....REALLY....they just don't. Think about values and God-given talent....and love....those thing don't cost a penny....not even....so when you say "rich"....it's not all it's cracked up to be. Take heart, friend.
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Old 10-25-2017, 06:44 AM
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Her mother is probably saying what she thinks will keep her daughter engaged with her - that's all. Enabling her allows her to better know where her daughter is and how she's doing.

So sorry you're going through this.
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:03 AM
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teatree- I agree with what you stated and understand the idea of "true wealth" having nothing to do with money. I know that is the title of this thread, but the more I go on with this, the more I can't help but think of the connection they probably made in rehab. It's almost unfair in my eyes, because we shared these connections outside of rehab under normal circumstances...but ideas change over time, and while I was changing my attitude about certain topics, she was drinking and never got to know that we may have shared things in common much more than she envisions.

Aside from the blunt hurt of being thrown away, I still feel guilt for ever being angry or mean during her heavy bouts of drinking. I can admit openly that at times, I may have lost my cool (certainly on quite a few occasions by the end). It isn't easy to deal with a person who becomes so unreasonable when the addiction is so strong. I never said she was crazy, I just would remind her that she has an addiction, and that she was drunk, and that I didn't like it.

After rehab, she proclaimed I was "gas lighting" her. Which leads me to believe that the conversations in therapy about me turned towards the idea of narcissism. Since this all, I have been reading deeply on narcissism, and that there are healthy and unhealthy forms of it. We all lie somewhere on the spectrum, and healthy forms of it just means you have a positive self image and seek a positive healthy relationship for oneself. On this note, I have gone down the checklist of narcissistic traits (although they aren't 100% concrete), and I hardly find myself identifying with any of them. This is where I get confused and hurt again...When she told me I was gaslighting her, I said I was not, and that if anyone was, it was me by her. Now, I am not one to partake in victimhood, and quite frankly cringe at the idea, but here I am in a situation where a full 180 was done to me, and the hostility and objection to me seems nothing short of distortion on her part.

We have discussed here that this trait is par for the course, but I can't help but question if she is truly a narcissist personality disorder. We also covered that we cannot give her a clinical diagnosis (completely agree), so we are only speculating. But, knowing that she was sober for a month, and coming to a conclusion about me as a bad or toxic person in her life just really hurts and is so utterly confusing. I know there was likely a form of codependency on my part, but I still hold that I was taking no pleasure in being a "hand holding helper" in her substance abuse. Once I truly recognized it, I tried to set more and more strict boundaries of no alcohol in the house (always was broken), to be honest when she was drinking (always broken), that I would discard any alcohol I find (I did, many times in front of her), that I would never purchase wine for her again (and I didn't starting about 7-8 months ago). I even made her sleep on the couch one night because I was so upset that she wasn't taking me seriously. I am in tears thinking about how I hated having to do that to a person I loved, and that same feeling exists for when I had to force her to leave the house and stay with her sister.

The sadness not only comes from feeling like I abandoned her, but also that she may look back and see this as me not handling her problem correctly. Like I was being controlling, babysitting, or even giving up on her. I never once did, I just had to hold to my claims from when we did an intervention (but as I said, I never would have left her in a critical recovery time, I just wanted to let her know I couldn't live this way forever, or have kids, and a family, etc).

This is where I come back to the idea of narcissism. She seemed to go from one extreme to the next...when together it was lots of talk of her talents and abilities, and always feeling as though she did so much for so many people. Now she certainly did help me throughout many years, supporting me in school, and helping with household activities when I couldnt, etc. But I always did my end of the bargain too, which is that I would do whatever I could, whenever I could to help maintain the house, take care of the dog, and do whatever I could to help her and support her endeavors. I drove her everywhere (including showings for real estate) for 3 months at a pop when she had seizures and couldn't drive. I paid bills when she couldn't due to losing jobs. I loaned her $10000 to start her own business even! And these are just more recent things. I think of all the love and compassion, and kind loving reminders I would give her each day. Notes of staying strong and doing the best she can each day. That I loved her every time I left, or every night before bed (with a kiss as well).

I can't comprehend how she can twist this into a sick form of unhealthy love. The only thing I can think of is that she may not have felt the same...but participated in all of it. Or that she did genuinely feel the same...and when in rehab, saw an out. This is the narcissistic point with the added confusion of sobriety after only a few weeks.

She finds someone to replace me because it is so easy to discard as opposed to come home, and deal with the mess she has made. But in the discarding is where I hurt the most. I never believed this would happen. I never saw it coming. I thought she was grateful for all the love I showed her, and all the efforts I made to help her seek recovery. It just hurts to think that she is finding happiness in another person, that may have something I couldn't give her. But she wont ever know me the way I am now because instead of coming home to see who I am when she is sober, she runs off with a new fun toy (the guy)!

So many things seem to come into play here:
1. addiction comes in many ways, and that may mean the addiction to new relationships
2. the narcissistic traits I noticed in the past were small at the time, but looking back it was clear they were present. After rehab, it seems they went into full charge when she discarded everyone in her life to make a new one...new supply
3. she is making her plans to move to miami still. She is showing no remorse. But why the heck did she call me last weekend? what would that help? Her only I can assume. Either to ask for something of me, or to check on the dog to see if she can get him, or maybe just still see if the door is open with me.
4. No empathy...it is a terrible thing to think about the fact that I show empathy for her even after this debacle, but she seems to show none. Heart breaking.

I know we say this over and over, but I can't be sure of her level of drinking at this point. You all seem to say that she is not emotionally available as an active addict. I assume you mean this that even if she isn't drinking all the time, that it doesn't change their mid set, or that they can feel feelings like a "normal" person would? Has anyone dealt with narcissism and alcohol abuse? It feels like it makes the situation 1000x worse.

I know this is all so terrible, and from the outside it still seems like I should run. But this is my love...and I can't just drop that. I also can't help but feel shattered that she is actually going through with all of this. We all hold our loved ones on a pedestal in some way shape or form, and there are healthy ways to do so. I still hold her in high regard, but this has shattered my image of who she is.

I don't think she will be coming back to me...at least not any time soon. And I don't know what to make of this. Do we have to just stand by and let it all happen? Since she called me, I have ignored her. Do you all think it is worth trying to speak to her? Let me know what you think. Today is a rough day...and could use some of your wisdom(s).

Thanks everyone.
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