XSILofA

My ex-brother-in-law has convinced my sister that they don't need to go back to court for the 6 month review (standard in Minnesota).

He is not in treatment, never has been. Doesn't think he has a problem.

He has not complied with any of the terms of the decree. Anger management counseling and substance abuse counseling - never did. Was supposed to use soberlink 3 times a day while kids in custody - rarely did. 2nd grade niece told mom he drinks sometimes. (He's great at hiding it, so I'm sure it's more than sometimes.)

He's your typical A, emotionally and verbally abuse, narcissistic extremely manipulative, delusional. Very delusional - to the point where last Sunday, he showed up at her house, kids let him in, he went into her bathroom while she was showering and when she told him to leave, he said, "What? It's not like I haven't seen you naked before!" (Police were called, it scared him for about 3 days, now he's back to the same old same old.)

I worry for my nieces safety sometimes, but I worry for their emotional well being often. They've seen thing a 4 and 7 year old should never see. Including their dad picking a fight with a stranger and getting beat up and breaking his leg, right in front of them.

Does anyone have any advice for my sister? She doesn't want to go back to court because she believes it will make things worse.

Any advice and/or lessons learned from people in similiar situations would be so helpful. She's usually reasonable, but she talked to him last night after he received the papers for the court hearing and he convinced her they could solve it on their own, or get their own mediator.

I'm amazed at how someone as smart as she is (ICU critical care nurse) is so easily convinced by him.

SparkleKitty

I'm sure your sister is just exhausted from dealing with an irrational human being, worrying for her kids, and the unpredictability of having an addict in her life.

Of course I am going to recommend that your sister continue the legal fight to protect her kids from this reckless addict, but I will also caution you that you don't have any more control over your sister than she has over the addict.

BAW81

I am currently going through a contentious divorce with my STBXAH and my advice is that she needs to use the courts to protect her children. If he is unreasonable and not doing the things he's legally mandated to do, she should be filing motions to get it all on record.

OF COURSE he wants to work it out with her....it's manipulation plain and simple.

I am so sorry your sister is going through this. I am so sorry your nieces are too. Please know that I think you're a great sister for coming here and looking for advice on how to help your sister. She needs major support right now so that she can find the strength to keep going and do whats best for those kids.

Allowing her ex to convince her through bullying and manipulation to avoid the courts, is purely selfish on his part and it is not a good thing for your sister or the children.

Sending hugs and prayers.

atalose

As long as your sister continues to allow the A to rule the roost he will and she will continue to suffer at his hands, words and actions as will the children.

Is having to go to court a task any of us wants to do, NO but we have to do what we have to do in order to take care of ourselves and our children, like it or not.

She wants to hit that “easy” button today so that she doesn’t have to deal with his emotional abuse but really all that does is delay it, postpone it because we all know it’s going to happen again and again until she finally takes a stand.

She needs you to help her find the strength to do the right thing TODAY so that her tomorrow’s are better. Is she in any kind of therapy or counseling? If not then maybe try and get her to seek some help for herself so that she can be better prepared to make healthy decisions for herself and her children.

He’s proven he’s done nothing that he was supposed to do and he knows it so he manipulates her into not holding him accountable for his lack of action.


The sad reality is, just like she couldn't get the A to stop drinking, you can't get her to stop making unhealthy choices that directly impact her children. It's sad for everyone when giving in seems like the only solution while reality shows it is not.

Ariesagain

She needs a restraining order, not to be going outside of the system. Courts take a dim view of people who waste their time and all she's doing is makng it harder to get help next time.

XSILofA

Just wanted to say thank you so much for the replies so far. I really appreciate the help. To answer a few questions from above and clarify the intent of my post, here's a little more info:

Yes, she is in weekly counseling and my 7 year old niece is too. Thank you for asking - I do appreciate the concern.
They are already divorced. This 6 month review hearing is a standard process in Minnesota. Not mandatory, but easily available - they even include the paperwork for it with every decree.
She is so used to his behavior that it is normal to her and she doesn't worry about the safety of the kids. This is what scares me most.

The advice I seek is for my sister, from others who know what she's going through. I understand a lot because I've been involved with a lot of this, but I'll never have the first hand experience. Advice from others that have As in their lives is much better than anything I can offer.

hopeful4

It is alarming to me that she does not worry about the safety of the kids. Very alarming. My children have been put in harms way due to their father's drinking. I have it in my divorce decree he may not drink around them, or have any alcohol around them, or have them anywhere that serves alcohol.

That being said, even though she is very young, I would arm 7 year old with her own phone (does not have to be fancy) so she knows to call if anything happens when she is with dad. I would have her call YOU if needed, you could always send the police to do a well check on them. My youngest DD was 8 when I was divorced and I immediately got her a phone, and it has been used several times for this type of situation.

Big hugs, the kids are lucky to have you in their lives.

Sasha1972

When you say "the decree", do you mean a court order? Is there a document which is court-enforceable which says he must use SoberLink when he has the kids, or was this an informal agreement between the parents? If the former, my advice to Mom would be to document when he doesn't comply with the order. The longer she "lets" him get away with not complying with the order, the easier it will be for him to say "well, it's obviously not such a big deal because Mom didn't mind that I wasn't using SoberLink/was drinking when I had the kids/etc". This is not really fair, because I understand the kind of hostage mentality that can take over when you're living with/dealing with an actively manipulative alcoholic and you start accepting their version of the world because the alternative is more conflict, but I'm concerned your sister could slip into being a passive enabler of her ex.

Would your sister be willing to seek legal means to restrict her ex's access to the kids? If so, I think the first step would be to speak to a lawyer who has experience with addictions. If she has documentation of all the conditions of the order which are not being followed, a lawyer can help her decide where to go from there.

I am dealing with an emotionally manipulative alcoholic ex who thinks that rules and honesty are for other people - but bit by bit, his ability to screw up my daughter is being reduced, through constant plugging away through the legal system. It's an exhausting marathon, not a sprint, so your sister will probably need a lot of support as she moves forward.

If she doesn't move forward - I don't think there is anything you can do to persuade her or change her mind. People arrive at realizations about the addicts in their lives at their own pace. Keep an eye on the kids though - the more time you can spend with them, modelling healthy adult behavior and giving them that relationship with you that they can count on if things go badly, the better off they will be.

XSILofA

When you say "the decree", do you mean a court order? Is there a document which is court-enforceable which says he must use SoberLink when he has the kids, or was this an informal agreement between the parents?

It's a true divorce decree - court order signed by judge. The Soberlink requirements are clearly defined. "Husband must abstain from alcohol during parenting time." It clearly defines when he's required to blow. Right off the bat, he started with the lies: he forgot, they went to park and it over-heated in sun, etc. She was exhausted and gave up trying to enforce.

Would your sister be willing to seek legal means to restrict her ex's access to the kids?

No

She does have a great attorney but doesn't want to follow her attorney's recommendations. Not because she thinks she knows everything - it's 100% her trying to do what is best for the girls.

You nailed it - "you start accepting their version of the world because the alternative is more conflict" I naively assumed this would stop when they got divorced. It is the same.

(ps - I sincerely admire your ability to keep fighting for what's right for you and your daughter. It's terribly difficult, especially with compounded by emotional abuse. Keep up the good work!)

atalose

And that’s the hard part, getting her to see and understand that his behavior is NOT normal and it’s NOT normal for her to accept it.

How is your sisters attitude when you express your concern for her and her child? Does she get defensive? Does she get angry at you? Any chance you could ask her if you could attend a therapy session with them or her? Maybe tell your sister that you want to know how best to help the both of them and that maybe the therapist could guide you.

I know for me when I was married to my extremely controlling ex husband that I really did need to hear from other people that how he was and how he spoke to me was not normal. OF course I used all the excuses I could muster to defend him and how he spoke to me, his job is stress full, he’s under a lot of pressure, his dad is sick, you name it I came up with it. However, what I learned was that I was really defending my own behavior of accepting bad behavior. I was embarrassed that he spoke to me that way and it made me feel weak so I got defensive instead and shied away from those people and got angry thinking what do they know……………….and apparently they knew a lot more than I did!!! It was those people who had the most profound impact on my life and I am great full.

Ariesagain

What's best for her girls is not to let them grow up thinking that being bullied by a man is okay if he's family. I grew up with a controlling, rageaholic father and I'm still feeling the aftermath in my sixth decade.

I'm sure she's exhausted. But him walking into her bathroom is NOT OKAY. She has the right to feel safe in her own home.

Restraining order. Since she called the police and good for her, it should be on the record and that should help.

Sasha1972

I totally get the exhaustion of having to deal with the excuses, denials and lies - I have felt it myself.

Your sister will have to come to the realization that she is not doing what is right for the kids by allowing their father to have access to them when he is not complying with rules. She has the best intentions, but she is seeing the picture in a distorted way because she's still borrowing his glasses. I hope that she figures this out before one of the kids is hurt. It might take a major crisis before she acts (for me, it was having the police called to my daughter's school because her drunk father was trying to drive away with her). I think the best you can do is be there for her kids in whatever ways you can. And if you know they are in danger at a particular moment, you might have to be the person who calls the cops.

SaveHer

I think what might be helpful for you to understand is that, in a lot of ways, a person in a long-term relationship with an alcoholic is just a much of an addict with many of the same patterns of behavior, denial being a big one. If your sister is in denial, there isn't much you can do.

I agree with everyone else that a) she should be doing absolutely everything she can to protect her children and b) all you can do is be there for the kids when she is unable (or unwilling). She is lucky to have a sister who cares as much as you do, who is willing to seek help on her behalf when she doesn't even know she needs it.

And if you want to read some horror stories about co-parenting, check out my previous threads and Sasha's.

LLLisa

Not going to give any legal type advice. My X husband sounds similar to your sister's. Denies he has a problem and blames me, five plus years on, for his drinking. Still.

Despite agreeing we would co-parent the kids he did not and does not. He pays no child support. Took a redundancy from work and drank the money away. He's no on welfare and homeless. In my experience X alcoholic husbands are not very good at doing any parenting. They weren't when we were still married to them so why would being divorced change anything?

Mine can't be bothered to attend any of the kids sporting or school stuff like graduations. awards etc. Makes up excuses and lies as to why he can't possibly attend. In my experience they eventually lose all interest in the kids. It's sad for the kids but it shows them who he really is and they seem to appreciate that bit of his behavior.