tomsteve

an alcohol abuser has problems when drinking, notices problem occur when drinking, stops drinking, problems stop, and never drinks again.

an alcoholic with untreated alcoholism can go weeks, even months without alcohol then picks up and its off to the rodeo. alcoholics have an obsession that someday some how they can control their drinking.
as alcoholism progresses, it gets worse,never better.

either way it doesnt matter.
__________________________________________________ ________________________
"I've never looked at our relationship being abusive.

We don't really ever argue unless he's had a drink. "

at one time my fiance told me,"tom, when you sober, youre the most loving man i know. but when you drink you can be evil."
as alcoholism progressed it was,"tom, when youre sober youre the most loving man i know. but when ya drink youre nothing but evil."
which progressed to,'tom youre nothing but evil when youre drunk and its happening quite often when your sober,too.."

in those evil times, i went on rampages. NEVER hitting her. all i did was say some very evil things and smash things.

does that part there read like rationalizing abuse? imo, its extreme rationalization because abuse isnt only physical contact.
verbal abuse is still abuse and causes damage.

ya know, what anvillhead posted above- THAT was me- an abusive practicing alcoholic.
THE BEST move my fiance madefor both of us was to toss me to the curb.
toss me to the curb AND stick to it- she was, in her words,"done with your ********!" very good move on her part- i was only going to drag her down as far as she would let me.
THAT was the action necessary for me to get help getting sober FOR ME.
If she would have taken me back AGAIN, it would have been the same insanity and i have no idea how long that would have went on for.
i am 100% positive without a doubt certain that If she didnt toss my ass to the curb, EVERYTHING was going to get worse.
and there was a whole lot worse to go.

PLEASE do whats right for you and the chitlin.
ya'll dont deserve it and ya sure as hellfire aint powerful enough to save him and make him change.
no matter how much ya want that to happen.

Kaz1915

Wow, that right there was powerful.

Im presuming that you did not reconcile with your fiancé.

I've stuck to it for over two weeks. I am in contact with him. He seems to be trying and he's in AA and counselling. I understand that it will not be an overnight fix.

I suppose what I'm scared of is completely tossing in the towel and he gets better. Or will our relationship always take him back because I've forgiven him so many times before? Will his behaviour never change because of how I've allowed him to treat me?

He knows just like you he's been a Dick with me and he doesn't deny that fact. I just wonder whether he's saying these things to try and fix our marriage.

SparkleKitty

I think what you do is separate from whether or not he decides to fully embrace andd stick with recovery this time, and trying to twine the two together in your heart and your head gives a misleading illusion of control you don't actually have. Whether his behavior changes is completely on him. You can only worry about taking care of yourself and your kids.

NYCDoglvr

I want to loose 10 pounds. But am I willing to do the hard work of loosing it? No. Again, he doesn't seem like he is willing to do the work.

Kaz1915

No and I fully accept he needs to help himself.

I'm going to go my nearest Alanon group on Tuesday which I found a few miles away but this is outside of working hours. I think it's gonna take some balls to get me in that building BUT I know I need to do it.

It must take an alcoholic a lot of balls to go through the door of an AA group and say I'm an alcoholic, I need help.

His counselling sessions are upsetting for him. He's had a lot of stressors in his early years. His parents lived across from a local pub and he spent his weekends in there. Christmas lunches in there etc. As a rule we don't take our children to the pub unless there's a Sunday lunch involved with family.

His sister is also a big drinker. She's a very good functioning alcoholic. Drinks daily. And she's only 6st at age 39. Claims she can't eat as she's lost all of her teeth so she has false ones. She works in a solicitors and she's doing very well. That's not how I'd expect an alcoholic to be! And they don't get on. They've had fights, she's wished him dead etc. I'm not excusing his actions I'm just trying to give u a little more on my husbands past.

He's also told me that he was raped as a 9 year old child. Before he moved to our area. He actually only went to the police at 22 years old and the gentleman that raped him had passed away.

There's a lot happened in his life. For me all of the above would make me want to be the opposite of an alcoholic but as I've read that sadly there's a patten.

It's not helping the fact that my mother in law is poorly. She's got severe COPD and before Christmas last year she was in hospital and it looked very bleak. She turned it around and came home but she's poorly again. I'm trying to keep my distance so I don't get sucked into I need you but again being me I'm a very loving person that hates seeing people upset!

I really appreciate all of your posts. They're very helpful and keep my mind focussed on the main issue, his alcohol and MY and MY KIDS future xx

Soberandhealthy

the two times i had really tried to get help and be sober its because my husband left me.

Nothing and i mean nothing has wake me up and i had horrible things happen to me because of alcohol.

addicts are like mr jekill and mr hide, its a difficult desiase a mental illness a behavior if i were you i would leave and don't look back. you deserve better

please know i as an alcoholic know first hand what you are in for it will take a while for him to get better and a live long commitment to stay sober

I wish you all the best

Kaz1915

And the 10lb comment made me smile 😄

AnvilheadII

the general rule of thumb is to take the "wait and see" approach for a YEAR before making any decisions about the relationship. the road to recovery is tough sledding. and early recovery is often chaotic and troublesome - when one has been dependent on drugs and alcohol for a long time, having those things removed permanently throws the entire body/mind/spirit out of balance.

it isn't JUST the alcohol. or the coke. or the whatever else. there lies something inside him that craves getting drunk, getting high, losing control. that anger and hostility and jealousy ARE there, the alcohol simply opens the gate and let's it out. therefore unless he digs in deep and begins to deal with his "other" self, it will either build up til he can't take it anymore and drinks, or he will begin to be an angry not-drinking person.

in that year you would have time to see if he can STAY sober, and if he does the work necessary. if he can stay committed to a program of recovery. and if he can not pressure you to come back, try again, forgive him. if he is willing to give YOU the time you need without any pressure.

you've never seen the SOBER him. i'm not talking about the few months here and there, in between binges. but a truly sober person, who has put drugs and alcohol behind him. he can NEVER drink again safely. EVER. he can't do a couple lines here and there. it must be full stop.

Kaz1915

Anvil everything you said there is true. This is what I believe. I don't believe that our human selves cannot stop something if we want to do it.

Thank you for your advice.

PuzzledHeart

As opposed to not tossing in the towel and he doesn't get better at all?

You have kids. Right now they think your relationship dynamic is normal because they don't know any better. You have a daughter who thinks love means getting abused and a son who thinks that men can get drunk and steal money from their wives.

I came from a household where physical abuse was the norm. Our parents didn't beat us up but our nanny did. She didn't slap us around but she used needles to poke us, she would rip up our dolls and stuffed animals, so she wouldn't leave evidence and get caught (just as your husband abuses objects so he doesn't leave any marks on you). My sister was also sexually abused by my cousin who was also living with us (later he proceeded to abuse his younger siblings to the point that they got sent to foster care - he also beat up the mother of his child so badly she got sent to the hospital). Much of my childhood was spent asking questions, like "Why am I living here in this family?" "Why doesn't anybody say anything about my cousin?" "Why is everybody pretending this is absolutely normal?" "Why don't the teachers notice anything?" "The neighbors can hear what's going on - why isn't anybody doing anything?"

My parents were clueless. My mom and dad were busy working, and by the time they got home we were so relieved that they were there we didn't want to talk about what was happening.

I was lucky. I had my books and my education. When I got older, I spent hours riding my bike just to get the hell out that house. I packed my schedule with after-school activities so I wouldn't be home. I didn't get along with my extended family anyway, so I had no hesitation in calling out my cousin's (and his parents') crap. It was very easy for me to get out. My sister was not so lucky. She was younger and desperately wanted to be liked by everyone. She was stuck with my sociopathic cousin and our nanny.

When I blew the whistle on my nanny years later, my sister told me that we were brats and we had deserved what we got. She invited my cousin to stay with her, despite all the crap he did to her, when he got kicked out his parents' house. Her then husband had to kick him out instead. She turned to pot and alcohol and sex because the only way she knew how to escape this madness was to pretend it wasn't happening at all.

I write all of this to underscore that first and foremost, you need to think about your kids. You need to think about your own safety. If your husband was in recovery, he would recognize the considerable damage he's done. He's going to realize that it's going to take him YEARS, not weeks, not months, to make it up for you and even then it's not guaranteed that you'll have him back.

I'm so sorry. This must be overwhelming right now. But there can be an end to this.

Kaz1915

Thank you for your reply.

It really saddens me to read your history. My son doesn't really understand any of it. He's only just turned 4. My daughter on the other hand has asked him why he drinks. She's told him she doesn't like him drunk.

It really upsets me to read that. I love my children. I spend every minute with them. Theuve never told me that they're unhappy. They're spoilt rotten, I constantly tell them I love them and they tell me back.

But he also does that with them.

They love him and he has a lot of time for them. He rides bikes with them, gets involved in school homework, parents evenings, trips to the park, dog walks etc. He spends time with them.

I am overwhelmed to be honest but I'm so glad I came here to read posts and hear different stories.

AnvilheadII

They're spoilt rotten, I constantly tell them I love them and they tell me back.

your kids are not "spoilt rotten" - they live under the pall of addiction and it has detrimental effects on them. it is good that they hear I Love You, but even that if said too much, too often and perhaps as an attempt to mitigate the reality of the situation, begins to lose it's affect. your children should not have to parrot back that they love you too - they should not have to constantly repeat their love and devotion.

it's not a competition....who loves the kids more, and who the kids love more. that makes their little lives a battleground. trying to please and appease. children sense discord, they hear the arguments, the bad words, the threats. but they also instinctively know that they are 100% dependent upon the parents and will do anything to assure that the parents continue to care, notice and love them. even if the parents behave badly. they have no choice.

dandylion

^^^^^^^Anvilhead...I couldn't agree with this, more!!

Kaz1915

I disagree with a lot of that.

Me telling my kids I love them is not under any false pretence and I'm sure they don't feel that they 'have to' say it back.

Me, my sister, my mum, my grandparents never end a phone call or leave without saying I love you. They're not dysfunctional.

They don't see constant arguments either. I'm not saying they haven't seen us argue ever but this isn't a daily occurrence. Not a weekly occurrence.

I hear my next door neighbours argue. The whole street hears them argue.

Yes I know that it isn't healthy for any child to see parents argue, full stop but I think to judge me for telling my kids I love them as often as I can is seen as false or as a cover up to 'make things better' is quite a cruel gesture.

I am prepared to take the rough, but, I tell my children I love them because every day is a new day and should begin and end with I love you. I do not tell them I love them in guilt.

hearthealth

I tell my children every day that I love them. I want them to know a) it's ok to say the words and b) if I die today I love them.

I can see that abusive people may have alter motives for saying these words.

LLLisa

Yes it is hard to explain because it's unrealistic. You also have no need to explain. Trying to explain his behavior is codependent behavior.
Jekyll and Hyde are the same person.
Keep reading here and you'll understand. Good luck!

Kaz1915

Yes I'm pretty sure they do.

But I'm in no competition with my husband and I love my children to pieces.

I want them to be able to express their emotions and my 10 year old surely does that. She isn't shy at saying how she feels. She's in the top classes at school and teachers and family speak highly of her. She's a little super star.

Kaz1915

I'm also reading about codependency. I tick a lot of them boxes, sadly

dandylion

Kaz...I'm sorry...I didn't mean to insult you....and, I have no doubt that you love your children!
My point is that children see much more than we adults think that they do...I think that all of us parents tend to underestimate how much they know and are aware of....
They are like little sponges that take in everything in their environment....
There is nothing wrong for kids to hear the words, in a natural way, that they are "loved"......but, they, also, do not forget the things that they observe. They carry these memories into their adulthood...lol..they remember it All...the good, along with the bad.....

I think what Anvilhead is trying to say....is that the words that kids hear and the actions that kids observe need to match up...
(lol...I din't mean to speak for Anvilhead,of course...as she is good at speaking for herself).....

LLLisa

Kaz when I was in the throes of codependency I truly believed that my mothering of the children was enough to overcome the abuse they witnessed almost daily. Verbal and emotional abuse can be worse than physical abuse. Living with an alcoholic who makes excuses for his drinking and subsequent bad, bad behavior and watching their mother "clean up" the alcoholic's messes (figuratively and literally) cannot be overcome by your parenting. The kids KNOW and feel the wrongness of the situation. They may not know what codependency is but they are fast becoming experts because it's what they are learning at home every single day.