update....I tried to talk with her yesterday. It didn't get heated or turn into an argument, but she said extremely hurtful things, and I'm in a bad place right now. I just don't know what to do.

I've ruined her social life, I trap her, now I want to take drinking from her, she new our relationship was bad from the start, etc, etc, etc.

This coming from the lady of my dreams. She used to love to tell people that she finally met the man of her dreams, nobody has ever
treated her so good. etc. :(

aliciagr, I never recognized there was a serious problem and I partially blame myself for not seeing it. She's my best friend and I want to help her soooo bad. My vision of an alcoholic was my father and i guess i was in the dark with it.

I enjoy a drink, but i can take it or leave it anytime. I've gone years without having a drink. It's not a necessity for me.

I'm just lost, i don't want to give up on her. I don't think i could honestly. But something has to happen.

Agoodman.....it sounds like a pretty standard reaction for when an alcoholic is confronted about their drinking...even if it is done with kid gloves. Angry, defensive, blaming and attacking.
Anyone who tries to come between the alcoholic and their drinking is viewed as the enemy....(either overtly or covertly)....
It is important that you understand this, so that you don't personalize it and go guilt tripping on yourself.
You wanted to get it off your chest...so, at least you did that. Good for you.
I sure hope that you are reading the articles that I gave you a link to, in Classic Readings.
The learning curve with this is steep...very steep....
And, the book that is recommended, here (Co-dependency No More) will help give you some better perspective.....

In response to your statement..."I don't know what to do"....
the gold star suggestion that is given to everyone in your position is...
!. Educate yourself 2. Get some face to face support group (alanon or similar group) 3. Get a personal counselor for yourself 4. lol....keep posting on this forum.....

Hi, AGM. I think each of us initially has our own idea of what an alcoholic is, and it rarely matches how we see our loved ones, and that picture is rarely how we see our loved ones initially. Generally, our initial concepts tend to be of the ones where addiction has already taken or hidden most of the good things from the person. However, those pictures don't show what leads up to that point.

I'm sorry that your talk didn't go as well as you wanted, but glad that it didn't go as bad as you feared it would.

So she has shown you two things.

#1. She is not willing to change for you. That she is not there or ready to stop drinking and embrace recovery.

#2. That when pushed she will blame you for all the issues she seems to be having in her life, which is pretty standard for an alcoholic to do.

So, now that you know these things, I hope you put the focus on you. Get thyself to a meeting or to a counselor (hopefully both) who can help you sort out to be strong enough to handle things regardless of what happens.

Gentle hugs to you.

Just re-read what I posted and sorry for the double "it's rarely.." section. I guess it was important to me. :)

From experience, stop talking to her about HER drinking, stop trying to change her. If the situation is not tolerable for you then it’s time to take a break, time to reevaluate the relationship and what moving forward with an alcoholic will mean.

That may be because she could drink as she pleased, nobody was trying to stop her. She continued to feed her addiction as it grew.

Now that you had “the talk” and it did not go well, what are your thoughts on the “something has to happen”? In addition, does that “something” have to be with her changing in order for you to feel secure and happy?

Just wanted to add to the chorus.

I know those talks well and they never ended good. It took a while to not take the hateful words or attacks personally. Consider it's just that alcohol is her first love, and you are trying to take that away or talk badly about that love, and she's defending it. That's really all it boils down to. Unfortunately it is tough to hear and it hurts when the anger flows like that, but when you realize it's all because it's the alcohol fighting back at you for trying to take it away, it makes a lot more sense. Not any easier, just makes sense.

I would concur with everyone who says that right now there are a few things at play -- Your girlfriend isn't willing to give up drinking despite the fact you've expressed the issues it is causing to your relationship with her, so right now, the ranking is #1 alcohol, and you, either #2, or further down her list.

At this point you try and disengage. Find a quiet corner of your home to go and read, or out of the house, any time she is drunk or drinking. Don't engage in any conversations with her at all when alcohol is involved. I found this tough at first but it helped with sanity and also helps you calm down a bit. Basically, you just remove yourself from her life when she is with her #1. As much as you possibly can. Spend that time however you want, even if it is here talking about the situation, just try and not engage with her at all when she is drinking. It's also a good trial or stepping stone for seeing what a potential life without the drama of her drinking would be like for you.

Sorry that your interaction with her was bad but it really is standard stuff and has happened to pretty much all of us here when we have tried to talk our SO's out of drinking.

thank you everyone.

I wanted to give you a little more info on what I'm dealing with.

She feels it's ok to go "have a drink" whenever she wants, while me
and/or her kids are sitting at home.

She knows that I grew up in an abusive household with an alcoholic father that would beat my mother. I would sit up with her as a child while she waited for him to come home. I've told her that her doing that brings back such anxiety and bad memories back and I've asked her to please understand what that does to me, and to the kids I'm sure. The kids had to deal with her DUI's and jail time before I came in to the picture.

Maybe not everyone feels like I do. But I don't think sitting at a bar drinking is a place for someone who has a family sitting at home. I guess my childhood has put those beliefs in me.

Of course it doesn't seem to matter to her.

When she mentioned I've ruined her social life, I even said, well, then let's do something about it. Let's do more with the kids, let's vacation, let's get healthy together, exercise, go to church together. Have friends and family over.(which we rarely do, she says it causes her stress). A lot of family has been a little alienated.

Sorry to ramble, my brain is scrambled

There is nothing wrong with you wanting a mate who shares your interests, prioritizes the same things you do, and respects your how her actions make you feel, but it doesn't sound like she is capable of being that mate for you right now. It's possible she never will be. Only you can decide how long you want to keep trying "get through to her."

Personally, I learned the long and hard way there were no magic words to get people to change to suit how I wanted them to be. I got on much better when I learned to accept people exactly as they were, and to not allow my comfort or happiness to depend on other people changing.

Hi AGM,

Welcome to the forum.

I too found myself feeling as you do. Including the feeling of my brain being scrambled.

For me it ultimately boiled down to this, I was trying to solve a problem that wasn't mine to solve.

I feel like I'm a fairly intelligent man. Good career where I use my brain daily to solve problems and generate ideas to fix things.

Only when I resigned myself to the fact I would never understand and I could never fix this, did I begin to find some semblance of peace.

I started doing things on my own and with the kids. I wasn't perfect in my detachment. I found myself begging, pleading, and cajoling. I can't tell you how many times I would say "if only"

The reality is my situation did not have a happy ending and we didn't live happily ever after. She never committed herself to battling her disease which was her choice all along and now she's gone forever.

The disease of alcoholism is progressive and unfortunately it only gets worse if someone does not abstain completely.

I have forgiven her for the choices she made. And I've forgiven myself for the choices I've made.

In the end, life is too short to be unhappy and just because you love someone does not mean you are obligated to stay in a relationship that makes you unhappy. You can only make decisions and choices that you think are best for your life.

I wish you the very best and hope you find the strength to be happy. Whatever that may be.

Agoodman....I don't think one has to come from a traumatic childhood to know that it is not a good thing to neglect a family in favor of drinking time at a bar..or elsewhere.
Alcoholism is progressive and the pull to be where one can freely drink, is strong. A bar is one sure place where drinking is sanctioned and approved of....plus, being in the company of other drinkers feels like being among accepting "friends".
I am not surprised that you don't relate to that, because you are not an alcoholic.
At a certain point, an alcoholic needs to drink to feel "normal"....
And, of course, the fact that drinking pushes away other bad feelings.
When she mentions social life...I don't think that she is talking about exercise, camping, going to church, etc.
I am quite sure, that, in her mind, she is not deliberately drinking against you and her kids...or does she design to hurt you all (even though it DOES).....she is just doing what alcohollics do...they drink.....

I think that Wells has given you some good advice. I think it might be a good idea to read Well's story...from the beginning, when he came to the forum.......

Agoodman.....just click on Well's name (to the left of his post).....and, from the drop-down menu...choose "all threads by Wells"........

Agoodman.....I will share a story with you that I had forgotten about...lol....
there was a guy in our community, who was an extremely talented woodworking guy. He and his brother owned a business that did elaborate inlaid wood floors, elaborate moldings, etc. He had a lovely, sweet wife and 6 georgous kids....
It had become obvious that he was struggling with alcoholism, to those of us who knew him. And he seemed to be to the point that working a whole day was too much for him...he would head to the nearest bar at about noon.
Nevertheless, we hired him to do the wood floors in our house, knowing that he could only make it till noon each day. He was a delightful guy....great sense of humor, very intellingent....a good guitar player, and he had the best collection of musical CDs. Hundreds. He would bring his boom box and play great music for me...lol...
One day, he didn't show up...and, I called his business phone...and, his brother told me that he was in the hospital going through detox.
A couple of weeks later, he called and wanted to finish our floors. When he arrived, she greeted me with a sheepish smile. I asked him what happened.....
He said that his wife had started going to alanon. He said..."She was going to leave me, and take the kids. So, I tried to stop drinking, but got so sick, I had to go to the hospital.
"Did she leave you", I asked...."No, he said....but she will if I start drinking again".

Well, he did relapse, about three months later. She filed for divorce and got to stay in the house with the kids. (they only lived about 5 blocks from us). They stayed separated for several months....He got very seriously into AA, and, they eventually reunited. I don't live in the community, any more, but the last I know he was still sober and going to AA....

I thought you might appreciate that real life story......

I know for me I attempted to rationalize my situation with what I thought was logic and common sense. Trying to use normal thinking for a non-normal situation. Of course a social life filled with kids, family, friends, vacations, exercise, church would be a normal welcome in life but not to many alcoholics. What you and I and others see as good, happy, coming together family time is often seen by the alcoholic as a brick wall of responsibility and accountability which are usually the first two casualties of addiction.

And I also learned that expecting an alcoholic to think about someone else’s feelings or their past and how current situations can be a reminder of past hurts, is expecting a lot, sadly.

Yeah, I have found that the usual rules that we were taught regarding relationships, gets turned tipsy turvy in relationships with abuse or alcoholism....It is really confusing, if we don't know this....

Im sorry but her story is "alcoholic text book 101. "

I know you love her, but you should never love someone more than yourself.

Hugs.

I'm not sure if you like pizza, but if you like it as much as I do, think of someone bringing a hot fresh new york style pie and sitting it on the counter in front of you, you haven't eaten all day, and think of how much you want to grab a slice...or every slice. Now think about a time you had a six pack of beer or a bottle of wine in your fridge. Did you ever sit there and get anxious knowing that alcohol is there in your fridge and you're not drinking it? My ex did. She admitted to me it actually bothered her to know that she had alcohol available nearby and she wasn't drinking it. She basically had to try and fight the urge to be drinking it. Your ex may be the same.

Granted, there are different levels to this. My ex has been on her own for over a year know and holding down a job and a life so she obviously has found a way to function somehow, and that can't mean a steady flow of alcohol, though when you start to monitor or try and put limitations on their drinking, they typically want it even more and resent you even more for trying to upset that access to the booze. It's hard not to take it personally I realize. But that's where the fight comes from.

When some kids get into their later teenage years, they tend to rebel against their parents...stay out late, experiment with booze and drugs, defy authority, basically, they start to get selfish. It's not because they hate their parents, it's just that they are becoming adults and feeling the right to make the choices and do whatever they want to do. Unfortunately, alcoholism has a similar effect though it knows no age. So it's not that your girl doesn't love you, it's just that she loves herself and her alcohol more, which causes the lashing out.

The other thing I had to realize (and this took a LONG time) is that even if she cut back, or quit, or changed anything about her drinking, because I asked her to (doing it for me, not for her) it was either a lie or short-lived. Promises or changes made regarding drinking because of a threat or because of what YOU want are promises made on very thin ice. So I realized that she needed to want to stop drinking for herself (for her health, because she was tired of the hangovers, or the weight gain, or the depression, etc...) or it would never work.

She wasn't reaching that point so I had to bail. It was not easy because I realized it meant saying goodbye to her if she wasn't planning to stop, but when I "played the tape forward" as many recovering alcoholics do, the fear of a life lived worrying about her behavior and her alcohol abuse was scarier to me than a life lived without her.

the answer to this just might help tremendously- might just find part of the true problem and then solutions can be addressed

You seem like a really nice person who just wants a normal life. Look at your statements below and ask yourself if you think it's possible with this person.

Tomsteve and Hopeful4,

I think it's scary for a couple reasons.

I think the thought of six years of something being over is scary for me. And the fact is I still love her with all my heart.

It's scary because I may lose someone who I know at her core is a wonderful person with a huge heart. She's been through so much with me.

In the last 6 years I've lost my mom, dad, little brother, a grandchild, and a grandfather.

She's the person that left her work immediately when the little baby passed away and met me at the hospital and held my dead grandson. She made sure I held him even though I was in bad shape.

There's a lot that will be lost. And i'll be by myself again.