TheFool

Hi : ) I'm new here and confused about how I feel now my bf had started AA.
We've been in a relationship for four years and generally were very happy to be with eachother and are also best friends who look after achiever really caringly . He had been a (pretty high functioning I guess) alcoholic for our whole relationship though I only found out 18 months ago when I found him collapsed (he worked away often and liked a drink but i had no idea of the extent/volume) He was/is still one of the most caring, gentle people I've ever known) He was occasionally self absorbed/would let me down at important times and i had to talk to him about it-but hes a busy man so i excused hus thoughtlessness and he stepped up when i did but he's in the public eye so i just put it down to not understanding the stresses of his job well enough. He's been sober for nearly a year and was doing well but was suddenly un characteristically unkind for a few weeks and we had our first real row.A huge shock! as we're just so nice to each other. It was difficult to even have the row as it was illogical and ridiculous. His accusations were nonsense so I suggested AA. He went and has been doing much better for 2 months now. He's realising why he thinks as he does and is involving me in his writing things down (mainly because i had to give him some more examples of letting me down as he blacked out a lot) it all seems pretty good, its very hard but hes determined to succeed and im so proud of him. There have been moments of , "im so sorry, i didnt know id done that" etc but he's ploughing on trying not to hate himself too much. My problem is I'm really angry. Inwardly. I'm being really supportive but the one sticking point is that he used to ask me repeatedmy to marry him. I used to answer, "We will when it's the right time" as I think I knew something wasn't quite right. Lately he's stopped asking so I asked why. What he said really shocked me. He said that he was drunk when he said it and apologised for saying it! NOT what i was expecting : ( I can't understand how he can't feel that anymore. Or how you can think you want to marry someone...go to AA for 2 months and dismiss it as drunk talk. I thought he'd had many "sober" days . He told me and still tells me im the only obe. Tgat he adires ne so where did that i want to marry you feeling go? Should i also mistrust anything hes ever said? How can he say proposing was a mistaje but loving me is a real feeling post alcohol? Why does one feeling disappear and another remain? He can't use that as a (logical )argument. Am I being still played for a fool? I assumed the proposal was real and we planned our future around it. Maybe in that case I'm not loved either and have spent four years being used to make him feel normal?? He's begged me not to leave him but I feel I'm not walking with him anymore as I don't know who he is. I'm so shocked and hurt. i don't want to marry anytime soon but an engagement so longed for (apparently) by him would help to solidify the past and the new present. I spend all my time talking about how he feels and AA and changing what we do to accommodate his new life...I'm shattered. Do I stay or go? I feel so betrayed. x

Maudcat

Hi, TheFool.
Welcome.
I think that emotions are all over the place in early recovery.
More will be revealed in time.
Are you getting support for yourself, like Al-Anon or therapy?
Your SO has his path to walk.
You have yours.

TheFool

Thank you for relying. i do understand its early days but im strughling to deal with what feels like a rejection. No. Not yet, it's all been so dramatic and we don't live together but he's here almost daily wanting to talk about how he's feeling I til the early hours. I found an alanon meeting but its on a day we've always kept for "us". If I do that he'll be on his own upset...a danger for him? X

NYCDoglvr

When I got sober I described early sobriety as being similar to 24/7 PMS in a full moon! In terms of getting married, you must let this go for the time being which is good for you because relapses are very common in early sobriety. It frequently takes several times. But more important, make Alanon a priority for yourself. Reschedule your weekly night. He's responsible for his recovery and you are for yours. I certainly understand your anger, but it's better to address it with other codependents than with him. Big hug.

AnvilheadII

but he's here almost daily wanting to talk about how he's feeling I til the early hours.

well that has to get exhausting and tiring? perhaps it's time for you to stop being his sounding board. or sounding BORED? he's spewing a lot of crap without a lot of thought behind it.

regardless, he does not sound like someone i would plan my entire future around. hey let's get married are just words. we want to look at actions over time.

MsPINKAcres

just from my experience, if someone is going to be in a relationship with an A, it is helpful to have your own plan of recovery.

If it's important for him to attend meetings, maybe it might be important for you to attend some too

Also, it was a long hard life when I based all my decisions, activities and events on making sure my now ex AH was protected from being where he could drink or use. And my efforts didn't work either -
what I learned if someone is going to drink or use - it doesn't matter what I do - they will go to any lengths.

Don't give up before the miracles happen in you - you deserve it.

maia1234

Tf,
Welcome, you have asked some great questions. Life is not easy with and addict who is using or not. Trying to understand them is virtually impossible. I believe he was very honest when he told you he was drunk when he asked you to marry him, that is his truth. It hurts! Loving an addict is tough, because they always take care of themselves, as they are typically very selfish people. It's part of addiction 101.

Once we codies recognize that, and learn how to put on our oxygen mask first, our lives will get better. Our addicts consume our ever waking moments. They are getting healthy and we are the crazy ones. I agree with all the other posters, if he is going to use, it doesn't matter if it's date night. I would seek support immediately from alanon, open aa meetings or even an addiction therapist. You are worthy of love and respect, and I just don't think his program is there yet. He is taking care of his well being and you need to do the same for you.

Hopefully it will work out for the two of you, but no relationship will work if you don't have to healthy adults involved, and I dont see that with either of you, at this time. Hugs!!

ladyscribbler

Your emotions are just as important as his. So are your time, your energy, your health, your sleep. It sounds like he needs a sponsor, tbh. I'm not suggesting that you two shouldn't ever talk about feelings or recovery, but keeping you up for hours every day and night isn't appropriate.

As for Al Anon, the meetings are only an hour long, so you'll still have 23 hours to spend together on those days. Part of my recovery was learning that I'm not responsible for the choices adults make or for managing their emotions. If he's going to be upset because you're taking an hour a week to do something for yourself, but expects you to be at his beck and call because he's not drinking right now, that's on him, not you.

Take care, and do try to get to a meeting. In my area there are quite a few Al Anon meetings that have an AA meeting going on next door at the same time. I know several couples who treat these as "date nights." Each goes to their respective meeting, then have dinner out afterward. Maybe something like that could work for you.

dandylion

TheFool.....I can imagine how rejected and disappointed (and confused) you must be feeling, right now. Your situation is not at all uncommon for a person in a relationship with a recovering alcoholic.....
One thing to realize....you have never known the sober him. He probably hasn't known the sober him, either....and, he is going to take some time before he works through the steps enough to find his own authentic self.
As you are realizing, now...just being sober and being in recovery are two different ballgames. Recovery involves changes in thinking...leading to changes in feelings...which leads to changes in attitudes, which leads, eventually, to changes in behaviors... This whole process can take a year or two to begin to see lasting results....

Who knew it would be so tough on the loved one?!!

I know that you are hurting....but, what has come to pass, has come to pass....
You will have to think about your own happiness and peace of mind....

By the way...you can't be his sobriety or recovery coach...with addiction, it doesn't work that way. He has his AA members and his sponsor that he should be taking this stuff to. With you, he should be a partner...not a client....

In a relationship, when one partner makes a drastic change...it changes the relationship....and, it becomes necessary for both people to change and adjust....or, the relationship doesn't fly, anymore....
The reality---some relationships will make it...others just don't....

You are going to need as much support as he does. You are going to have to become as "selfish" in putting yourself first, as early recovery renders him (selfish)....by selfish, I mean putting your own welfare as your top priority.

The obvious--you need a recovery support group like alanon and a therapist or counselor of your very own. (too early for relationship counseling).

I found that it can be hard to find books on early recovery for the loved one.
Here are some that I uncovered...on amazon. You can order them cheaply, as used ones.
"Loving Someone in Recovery"
"Everything Changes"
"living with Sobriety"

You will find a wealth of information in the dozens and dozens of articles in our "library" of Classic Reading, on alcoholism and the effects on the loved ones.
Here is a link to that section of our "stickies".
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...c-reading.html

Don't know how to find the sticky section of the forum....on the top of the front page?
Here is a diagram....
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...find-them.html

atalose

You really are dating someone kind of new now, many things are going to change including him. He’s going to see life clearer and he’s going to have clearer thoughts and feelings. He’s experience life on life’s terms, getting to know himself and become comfortable with who he is sober. I don’t mean this in a mean way but you are holding onto what was with wishes of what could be with the same person who isn’t really the same person anymore.

Heck, you might end up not even liking this person. You really only have 2 choices, stick around and see what happends, see if you end up liking this person and don’t push for an engagement because they might just push him away or cut your loss now and move on and away from this experience

TheFool

Thank you. You're all very kind to tell it like it is. I think it's difficult to convey a relationship in type. He's a lovely man but quite child like and I spend a lot of time supporting people so I'm used to it. He arrived here last night and began telling me about his AA meeting that lunchtime. Feelings came up about hurting others and he was talking about having to make amends/apologies to people in the future. No mention of me in the list of people he'd hurt so i brought up the change of mind re marriage. I'm amazed how much I'm supposed to not mind in the name of girlfriend yet ex's/barely known casualties need to be found/contacted/apologised to...but not me...he then he broke down and sobbed as it was "so difficult to go through AA at the moment" it felt like I mattered even less. It's hard to see him sad but still feels manipulative as it stops my honesty in its tracks. It's as if it's assumed I can't be hurt. I was calm and re stated my hurt. He then suggested we could get engaged if it meant that much to me and that he was willing to moved in as well. I've told him an engagement where only one person wants to wouldn't be what I'd want and that I don't want him to move in to my house. It was my attempt to protect myself as he'd apparently just told a friend if he moved in with me his financial woes would be over as I'm mortgage free. I worked hard for that and i've now been told by him he's in serious financial trouble due to alcohol/alcohol related decisions. I feel I don't have to mention it again as the ball is in his court to get well and I get the chance to try and get over the hurt while he keeps on doing the programme. I'm going to Al anon's next meeting which will hopefully help the sad ness subside over time as I accept reality. Thank you for the book suggestions. I need everything I can to try to get through this without getting down on myself and feeling rejected what ever happens. Im re reading all your words throughout the day which help me to feel stronger. I guess a lot of the feelings are trying to work out what is reality now and how to move forward through disappointment. X

dandylion

TheFool......I am glad to see that you are upholding some good boundaries for yourself....and are able to think of what is in your best welfare.
I get the impression that the two of you might have a parent-child dynamic in the relationship. While that is not an uncommon thing....it is an unbalanced situation. A healthy relationship needs to be of two equals. Otherwise, someone gets the short end of the responsibility stick. (usually the parent-like one. If the childlike one ever matures...then, they harbor resentments (like a teen toward the parent). If I am right...no wonder you feel put upon.
"It is as if he assumed that I can't be hurt".....
Looking back, as an adult, now....I think that as a child, I didn't give full consideration of how my caretakers might be feeling. I think that all children assume that the parent is like a rock. Always there..always stable...in charge...always capable...big, strong and secure, for us. We don't see them (except for glimpses) as vulnerable and feeling humans that they are. (Maybe your bf feels that way about you..(inconsciously, of course)......

You are moving in "new territory", now. I know that this is all a lot for you to process. But, I think you are going in the right direction, for you...(and, for him, ultimately-no matter how things turn out.
I am sure that you will feel a lot of support through alanon.....
Jus take it a step at a time and a day at a time.....
You sound very motivated to move beyond the pain...so, I know that you are going to be o.k.......

TheFool

Thank you so much dandelion. I think you may be right with the parent/child analysis. I'm a single mother of four happy, successful and very kind (3 grown up) children who have taught me a lot about philanthropy and kindness, we are very close unlike his damaged relationships with his own children and he is constantly in awe of me as a mother and our "unit" of 5 and how we each care for eachother. I used to be surprised when he said that (as i know they are exceptional children inspite of me)but he does put me on a pedestal (it bloody hurts when you call of those things!) Maybe i should buy a puppy to tempt me away from wanting to look after him : ) I'll be ok. I'm just sad. I expect many people feel shock when for whatever reason people aren't all you thought they were. He's still a lovely person. I'll just try to pack in as many good times as possible with and without him, hope he sees it through too the end and marry myself instead as I think I'm a perfect match for me : ) x

dandylion

TheFool....yeah, it makes sense, to me, that you would be very sad, right now.....
Anytime we have to go through a significant loss...even the loss of an idea or a dream....we go through a normal and expected period of grieving...I suspect that you are experiencing some of that , now.....
But, there is growth and change ahead, for you....good change...that can make you more happy, deep, inside....

I wll share another thought with you....food for your own thought. We women (mothers) tend to put all of our love and attention into our children for the decades that they are dependent on us (of course, that is what all caring mothers do!). The sticky wicket is that we can lose a part of our own development, during that time....especially if we don't have a healthy, equal intimate partner to meet certain of our own adult emotional needs.....
We get our needs and our identity, purely from being a nurturer and caretaker of others. That is especially true if we happen to be good at it!! (it sounds like you have been).
Our children ...our delightful children...grow up and develop lives of their own....and our relationship with them changes....not in a bad way...just different.
They still need us...they always need us...and we are still close...but in a different kind of way. It goes to another, still good, level.
We still have the immediate need of regular companionship and intimate human sharing and connection (not just sexual...but, that, too...lol).
TheFool...you will need this from a healthy mature adult intimate relationship....
And, eventually, you can have that....with this person, or, even, maybe, with another person....
You cannot possibly know how the future will unfold...it is not written yet....

OH..look at the time! I have rattled on and on.....(as usual)....

tomsteve

"I found an alanon meeting but its on a day we've always kept for "us"."
sooo, he goes to AA whenever, but you can go when theres the only meeting? youre going to put him ahead of getting help for yourself?

maybe its time for ya to make fix you time like he is making fix him time?

something very important i learned:
i can ask questions, but may not get the answer i want to hear.
expectations of what the answer should be leads me to dissapointment.

TheFool

Yes, absolutely...my children are my priority, my joy and my solace...4 little rocks that sustain me just by being on this planet at the same time as me. You're right of course, they grow up and move away to live their own lives and that's as it should be. But they could detach happily knowing I was cared for. If they knew they'd all tell me run for the hills. I think my issue is centred on respect or lack of it from the abf. There is huge lack of respect for others when youre in the grips of alcohol addiction. I think for me that's the hardest part to deal with. It's fundamental to all our relationships and the base line you should try to evoke and receive x

maia1234

Please be careful about letting him move into your home. Let him take ownership of the mess he has caused himself. Don't bail him out. Respect him enough to learn how to deal with life on sober terms and not enable him to "pay" his bills because he doesn't have to pay rent. Step back and it will be ok!!

Hugs!!

TheFool

Thank you, yes, I'm being cautious. I told him I don't want him to move in when he suggested it shortly after telling me he'd been drunk when he proposed continuously for 3 + years and hadn't mean it...He mentioned living together again yesterday. iI'm said, "no" again and then he suggested i moved in with him and paid half his rent...im mortgage free...why would i do that??! I am feeling privately less and less enamoured with the idea of co habitation as each day passes. I'm fed up with living on my own but feel I'd end up with the short end of the stick. He spent the weekend here. Pretty depressed at times..that's tough for him i know but im not...so I say how sorry I am he feels low then move on to a more positive conversation/activity. Ive spent so many years worrying about him ive nearly had a nervous breakdown. It was lovely, but it's hard work. I spent some of it cooking for visiting friends and took him out for 2 x meals and some doing an ongoing major renovation job taking down a wall (crow bar, lump hammer in hand, rubble shifting) while he read his AA book and watched me stack it in the yard, covered in dust and cuts) Says it all really. reminds me of the Chicken licken fable.I've decided to take on his philosophy and live one day at a time filling them with things that make me happy. It's only been 3 days but I can feel a shift in my thinking. I'm worrying less and feeling really grateful for my self created life. The marriage issue seems childish today. I'm suddenly seeing how much of my time and effort I gift him. It's be ok if it was mutual but it's not. I feel used though I don't think he realises he uses me but I can feel it now. He went home for his meeting tonight... said he'd see me on our date night yet totally forgot thats my new al-anon night! How long does it take for the self absorption to dissipate? He told me I was a perfect girlfriend...normally I'd be flattered but today it made me think, "yep, you're very lucky and you don't want to marry this??!" im never mentioning marriage again. My advice to anyone who feels confused/sad/lost as I feel is to fill your life with your stuff and see how you view your Abf then...mine's still lovely but hard work and selfish albeit unconsciously...the trick is to care but to care less by removing them as your focus them they shift in your mind to the right place. Mine's caused me so much worry lately and humiliation and stress...hes my best friend and I love him very much but there's relief when he leaves back to chaos and he can keep his chaos now, I'm stepping back...x

dandylion

TheFool.....I can see a shift in your thinking....like an adjustment in your mental filter.......

CelticZebra

Stepping back is definitely the right thing I think!
Keep yourself and your children precious and keep taking those steps away from this man and the disaster he could make your life if you allow the mind to stray to the fantasy.
I'm so happy that you seem to realise the danger before becoming any further entwined.
Dandelion has some great advice and I wish I knew then what I know now.