Ultimatums?
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Ultimatums?
So last night AH and I got into it about addiction. We were watching an episode of Cops where a guy was arrested for felony possession & trafficking of marijuana. He said some silly things and we laughed but then the discussion started.
Legalization of weed- It may surprise you that I'm very pro-pot because of its medicinal value, and apparently he's anti (first I've heard of this). I underestimated how drunk he was, but even so, when he moved the conversation to addiction I tried to avoid it. So he sits there and hollers at me about how I'm no better than him because I'm addicted to cigarettes (I know, I really need to quit) and how he's going to leave me when I'm in the hospital with cancer when I'm older. I thought that was a bit heartless but I just told him I wasn't having this discussion with him anymore, and he left the room angry because we can't have a "civil discussion about anything that I disagree with". Lol.
So this is it, time to address the elephant in the room. Tonight I was planning on giving him an ultimatum, me or the alcohol. Before I do, I thought I'd check in here to see what y'all think of ultimatums. I know that he has to choose to be sober on his own, but I did want to give him one last shot to make some effort in our marriage. Thoughts?
Legalization of weed- It may surprise you that I'm very pro-pot because of its medicinal value, and apparently he's anti (first I've heard of this). I underestimated how drunk he was, but even so, when he moved the conversation to addiction I tried to avoid it. So he sits there and hollers at me about how I'm no better than him because I'm addicted to cigarettes (I know, I really need to quit) and how he's going to leave me when I'm in the hospital with cancer when I'm older. I thought that was a bit heartless but I just told him I wasn't having this discussion with him anymore, and he left the room angry because we can't have a "civil discussion about anything that I disagree with". Lol.
So this is it, time to address the elephant in the room. Tonight I was planning on giving him an ultimatum, me or the alcohol. Before I do, I thought I'd check in here to see what y'all think of ultimatums. I know that he has to choose to be sober on his own, but I did want to give him one last shot to make some effort in our marriage. Thoughts?
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What is your motive? If it's to manipulate him into getting sober, it won't work because, as you said, it is only his overwhelming desire to to stop drinking that works. But if you've really had enough, you're really leaving this time, then state the facts and get a lawyer.
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I don't think ultimatums do anything but cause resentment and/or token displays of effort to "get sober" or "control" the drinking. If you're ready to be done, then I'd see a lawyer and file for either divorce or (if your jurisdiction recognizes it) legal separation.
Divorce takes months, usually, to become final. If he really wants to get sober and takes some real, SERIOUS action toward doing that, you can always dismiss the case or put it on hold, if you judge that he is sincere and truly ready to live sober for the rest of his life. If not, you will be ahead of the game and in a position to move on with your life.
Divorce takes months, usually, to become final. If he really wants to get sober and takes some real, SERIOUS action toward doing that, you can always dismiss the case or put it on hold, if you judge that he is sincere and truly ready to live sober for the rest of his life. If not, you will be ahead of the game and in a position to move on with your life.
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I will ask you, so what's your bottom line. Are you prepared to stick to what you say, in that you will leave him if he does not give it up?
Addicts are like naughty children, say what you mean, and mean what you say.
I think most ultimatiums don't work in my opinion.
Addicts are like naughty children, say what you mean, and mean what you say.
I think most ultimatiums don't work in my opinion.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
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this:
"Tonight I was planning on giving him an ultimatum, me or the alcohol. "
then this:
" I know that he has to choose to be sober on his own..."
im not sure of youre story, but has he possibly already shown what his choice is?
"Tonight I was planning on giving him an ultimatum, me or the alcohol. "
then this:
" I know that he has to choose to be sober on his own..."
im not sure of youre story, but has he possibly already shown what his choice is?
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
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what exactly IS your ultimatum?
and are you 100% ready to back it up?
otherwise all he will hear is blah blah, blah blah blah.
Me or the Alcohol. what does that look like to you? do you anticipate he'd need treatment, 28-30 days away, and then after care, followed up with involvement in AA or another support group? are you ready to see him gone 5 nights a week to meetings? early recovery is no picnic, he won't suddenly BE THERE for you. in fact, you might even finding yourself resenting his recovery. or you may find that you really don't like him sober either.
and what if he gets a good start and then relapses? how many relapses are you willing to endure?
and what if he says NO, i will not quit. what then?
and are you 100% ready to back it up?
otherwise all he will hear is blah blah, blah blah blah.
Me or the Alcohol. what does that look like to you? do you anticipate he'd need treatment, 28-30 days away, and then after care, followed up with involvement in AA or another support group? are you ready to see him gone 5 nights a week to meetings? early recovery is no picnic, he won't suddenly BE THERE for you. in fact, you might even finding yourself resenting his recovery. or you may find that you really don't like him sober either.
and what if he gets a good start and then relapses? how many relapses are you willing to endure?
and what if he says NO, i will not quit. what then?
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Originally Posted by BlownOne 
Ultimatums rarely work, if ever, in my experience. Maybe it's something you need to do to make sure he understands what is at stake, but don't hope for too much. Prayers for you.
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I would also be prepared for lies. When I gave my XAH ultimatiums over and over....before I knew better....he would just lie to shut me up. I had been telling him for ages it was not working and I wanted a divorce. However, when I followed through with that, he just could not believe it. He was amazed, and is still amazed that I went through with it.
Has he acted like he would be receptive to help? I mean long term, and if needed, inpatient help. And is that possible for his situation?
I would look at every angle and just make sure you are where you need to be, and as I always have said, prepare for the worst, hope and pray for the best.
Has he acted like he would be receptive to help? I mean long term, and if needed, inpatient help. And is that possible for his situation?
I would look at every angle and just make sure you are where you need to be, and as I always have said, prepare for the worst, hope and pray for the best.
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Ultimatums never worked on my XAH. It just led to more lies, more resentments, further fodder for arguments, more broken promises etc. Nothing good ever came from it.
What did work for me, and was paramount in me regaining my sanity, were boundaries. Ultimately, it didn't save our marriage, but it did save me from the hell I was living in both while we were still under the same roof and after (while going through separation and divorce.)
Good luck to you with whatever path you choose.
What did work for me, and was paramount in me regaining my sanity, were boundaries. Ultimately, it didn't save our marriage, but it did save me from the hell I was living in both while we were still under the same roof and after (while going through separation and divorce.)
Good luck to you with whatever path you choose.
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Originally Posted by SaveYourHeart
I think this is exactly my motive, it's something I need to do for me, I have no hopes or optimism in our marriage any more if he isn't willing to make an effort to get sober. .
"..... I did want to give him one last shot to make some effort in our marriage."
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Nothing will speak louder about how you are unwilling to live with active addiction than actually leaving and not living with it anymore.
What would the Best Possible Outcome of giving him an ultimatum look like for you?
What would the Best Possible Outcome of giving him an ultimatum look like for you?
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I think he has shown exactly how much effort he wants to put into the marriage, SYH.
Not enough to get sober, anyway.
It's an answer, though maybe not the one you would like to have.
Gotta agree with Lexie. If you are done, take action.
Get an attorney, find out what you should expect, and start the process.
If he wants to get sober while the process goes on, he certainly can.
Meantime, you are putting one foot in front of the other and moving forward.
P.s. While smoking is not healthy for you, it doesn't turn you into a lunatic after several cigarettes.
Unlike drinking.
Peace and good thoughts.
Not enough to get sober, anyway.
It's an answer, though maybe not the one you would like to have.
Gotta agree with Lexie. If you are done, take action.
Get an attorney, find out what you should expect, and start the process.
If he wants to get sober while the process goes on, he certainly can.
Meantime, you are putting one foot in front of the other and moving forward.
P.s. While smoking is not healthy for you, it doesn't turn you into a lunatic after several cigarettes.
Unlike drinking.
Peace and good thoughts.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
I think ultimatums leave the ball too much in the other person's court. In my case, I told ex I was proceeding with a divorce. It was up to him to decide how he chose to respond to it. He chose to just keep doing what he was doing. If I had framed it as an ultimatum, I would have been stuck waiting to see what he was going to do and trying to influence his behavior through my words, which is pretty much the definition of insanity with an addict. Do what you need to do and let him decide how he will respond.
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This is why I always come to y'all before doing anything crazy lol!!! Y'all are right, as usual, that the ultimatum will really just put prolong the inevitable and put me right back into the cycle we've been in for the past 3 years. I'll let him know that I plan on filing for divorce. If he ends up going to AA and committing to sobriety during the proceedings, I'll file a voluntary dismissal. Thanks for the help guys! I don't know what I'd do without you!
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http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-reposted.html
The above link will give you a sort of yardstick of what to expect from him.....
Please give it a read.....
I underline what the others have said.
If you ever give an ultimatum....make sure that you are willing and able to follow through.....otherwise, your words will ring hollow....
One more thought....never ever get into a debate with someone who is drunk about anything...it is a waste of time and breath....If they want to argue...detach and exit the area....It is up to you to defend your boundaries (I will not debate with an alcoholic)....as they will walk on them, otherwise....
The above link will give you a sort of yardstick of what to expect from him.....
Please give it a read.....
I underline what the others have said.
If you ever give an ultimatum....make sure that you are willing and able to follow through.....otherwise, your words will ring hollow....
One more thought....never ever get into a debate with someone who is drunk about anything...it is a waste of time and breath....If they want to argue...detach and exit the area....It is up to you to defend your boundaries (I will not debate with an alcoholic)....as they will walk on them, otherwise....
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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whoa, wait Saved.......you are still thinking that if he got sober, all would be wonderful, he'd be fixed and you'd be happy. you are missing a key piece here......recovery takes TIME. it's like planting a vegetable garden from seed...you don't poke 'em in the ground today and have 14 rutabegas tomorrow!!!
also while yes you can cancel proceedings at any time, that still sounds like you are using the Filing as a weapon, or a whip.
if you are going to file, plan to see it thru, not use it as a (sorry) trump card.
also while yes you can cancel proceedings at any time, that still sounds like you are using the Filing as a weapon, or a whip.
if you are going to file, plan to see it thru, not use it as a (sorry) trump card.
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SYH.....I think that Anvill is making an excellent about recovery taking Time....
I forgot to mention that....
Early recovery is considered one year, for sure...but, many consider it to be two or three years....
It is not uncommon for someone who is addicted to alcohol to make lots of promises, when confronted with an "alcohol or me" ultimatum....
For someone who is yearning to hear the words....these promises can feel like music to their ears and flame the fires of hope.....
That is a reason why, if you make such an ultimatum, you have to really mean it....
I forgot to mention that....
Early recovery is considered one year, for sure...but, many consider it to be two or three years....
It is not uncommon for someone who is addicted to alcohol to make lots of promises, when confronted with an "alcohol or me" ultimatum....
For someone who is yearning to hear the words....these promises can feel like music to their ears and flame the fires of hope.....
That is a reason why, if you make such an ultimatum, you have to really mean it....
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If he ends up going to AA and committing to sobriety during the proceedings, I'll file a voluntary dismissal.
I'm fully prepared to stick to my guns, I even redrafted my divorce and printed it on red ruled paper.
And how many times now have you NOT followed through this divorce proceedings? What's the longest period of time he's managed to not drink that gave you hope that he wouldn't drink again?
I'm fully prepared to stick to my guns, I even redrafted my divorce and printed it on red ruled paper.
And how many times now have you NOT followed through this divorce proceedings? What's the longest period of time he's managed to not drink that gave you hope that he wouldn't drink again?
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