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Guidance needed to let go, where do I begin?

Old 08-08-2017, 11:36 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Really well said, tomsteve. One way I've seen it put is this:

I am a lighthouse and not a lifeboat. I do not rescue but instead help others to find their way to shore, guiding them by my example.

While looking up that quote, I found this second part, which I have not seen before:

I cannot pull people onto a boat. I can show where there are rocks.

I cannot pull people ashore. I can show where there is land.

I cannot tell you if this is the right land. I can only show it is out of the water.

I am a lighthouse. And sometimes I need my bulb changed as well!
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Old 08-08-2017, 01:22 PM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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Thank you TornSteve.. I very much appreciate your word and insight. I like the questions
heck my motives. am i trying to rescue or am i tryin to help?
am i reaching out a hand to help lift someone up or to carry them?
am i doing something for someone they can do for themselves?
am i risking my own well being?
do i have an expectation of getting anything in return

Honeypig, I love that quote. I'll be writing these down and carry with me.

Both of your thought really help introduce clarity for me.

Grateful
T
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:06 PM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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Why am I so stupid?
We ended. He finally was sober enough to realize. He feels bad and makes al the promises again. I tell him I hope he does get help and I just need to take care of myself now. He "seemed" to get it. It was honestly nice to her the sober person if only for a few minutes. His final words were that he will make things right, win me back, prove to me he can do it, he doesn't want to lose me.... you know how it goes. I thought I did too.

Tonight, he sent a text initiating a conversation to cover a couple things, thinking it would be easier I just called wanting to make it quick. He didn't answer but sent another text saying he was busy and I should text him instead. He initiated this conversation and wants to "win" me back, but he doesn't make the effort to answer the phone but only wants to text. this goes around a few times and he resists calling.. hhhmmm. no rocket science here, he's drinking again. He made it a few hours this time.

I said well then just call when you can. Nope says I'm not being respectful of him, I have all kinds of anger, wants to stand by me but I have to stop this craziness and just text him.

What? why did I even crack the door? Here he wants to make it right, wants to talk but then won't and accuses me of being not respectful to expect him to talk instead of having fun with his friends watching football and not drinking.

Feels so manipulating. It was just meant to be a simple conversation. I know I don't want to be with him, but I guess I hoped for his wellness. I was stupid to think he'd actually try. I thought perhaps 2 months, not 2 hours. And then I get the abusive, manipulating words....again. I have often felt that he sets me up and then twists the situation back on me, accusing me of the things he's doing and really believing it.. craziness!!!!

As I began this post, why am I so stupid?
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:55 PM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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tis19......I don't think that you have, yet, fully accepted the realities of the disease.
(it is hard to accept, I know...and it does take time).
You have said that you read everything you can get your hands on (and that is a good thing, in my opinion), and as you learn more, you will realize that the disease exerts powerful control....and, until the person get some moments of clarity where they decide that they want to get sober for themselves...for whatever reason....they will not get into recovery.
You can want it with every fiber of your being...and, it will not make any difference.
It has nothing to do with you....this disease....
Remember the 3 Cs?
You didn't Cause it; You can't Control it; and you can't Cure it.....

He is doing what alcoholics do....he is not doing it to deliberately hurt you (though it does). It is not personal against you. Alcoholics drink because of what is inside of them....and you happened to be in his path.....

In addition, you are grieving....it is hard to break the bonds that have formed.
I am sure that you still miss him...and crave a connection to him. This will exist for weeks to months...It will come to an end...eventually....
I suspect that you are still carrying hope....and, with us humans, hope dies hard...especially for the things that we really want....

But, there is Reality that has to be dealt with....reality can be painful...and, it can destroy us if we deny reality.....
LOL...denial doesn't just belong to the alcoholic....we are all susceptible to denial.....

You asked "Why am I so stupid"....I sure hope that that is a rhetorical question....
You touched the stove...and, yes, it is still hot. simple as that.....
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:17 AM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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Hi TLS

I have been thinking more & more about something Dandylion posted on page two of your thread:


If a stranger hurts us twice...we get angry and we want to be as far away from them as we can get....
If a loved one hurts us that way...we seem to want to find a way to draw them closer to us.....

For me I have been thinking a lot about when I was still with her. The question becomes can (she) this person who causes all the pain, suffering, confusion, & constant turmoil inside of me - also be the one to help me heal all of that? Can I heal being with her. I have to heal.

If that were possible I would love to be very close with her right now for that to happen. But in reality its not possible because she doesn't even understand is unable to understand how her life choices negatively impact me. Whenever I shared with her how her actions hurt me - her all telling response (meaning it said everything) was I'm sorry I didn't mean to hurt you. Those words were said to me countless times. Even though I love her, I cant be close with her. I cant interact with her at all. I cant do that because the pain & confusion will get worse. I cant handle one more drop (just a drop) of pain from her. Even though it hurts me to no end, I cant be close with her.

Hope you are doing well.

Thanks
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:49 AM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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I have been asking myself this question over and over again this past month: why am/was I so stupid? I was with my AH for ten years, all of those years he was an addict, six of those years he hid his addiction. So what made me stay for the other four years? I think addicts will manipulate you and everyone they come into contact with in order to continue their addiction. If you're going to be the source of food, shelter, clothing, money, sex, or make him/her look "normal" because it means they have a spouse, family, best friend, they will hold on to you. It's got nothing to do with you. Of course, maybe they might really want to be "normal". They might really have loved you or still love you, but they are not able to have loving relationships and share all the responsibility that love entails.

He wants you, but he also wants to drink. He loves you, but he also loves to drink. Even if sometimes he doesn't love drinking, he is not going to be able to stop just because he says he wants to stop. Anyway, this is how I see my AH. Addiction is an extremely selfish "disease" -- if you can call it that (some people do, I'm "on the fence", I think it's a behavioral disorder that can become a "disease", but I'm not an addiction specialist).

I don't know if it will help you to go "no contact" for a while...?

Originally Posted by tls19 View Post
Why am I so stupid?
We ended. He finally was sober enough to realize. He feels bad and makes al the promises again. I tell him I hope he does get help and I just need to take care of myself now. He "seemed" to get it. It was honestly nice to her the sober person if only for a few minutes. His final words were that he will make things right, win me back, prove to me he can do it, he doesn't want to lose me.... you know how it goes. I thought I did too.

Tonight, he sent a text initiating a conversation to cover a couple things, thinking it would be easier I just called wanting to make it quick. He didn't answer but sent another text saying he was busy and I should text him instead. He initiated this conversation and wants to "win" me back, but he doesn't make the effort to answer the phone but only wants to text. this goes around a few times and he resists calling.. hhhmmm. no rocket science here, he's drinking again. He made it a few hours this time.

I said well then just call when you can. Nope says I'm not being respectful of him, I have all kinds of anger, wants to stand by me but I have to stop this craziness and just text him.

What? why did I even crack the door? Here he wants to make it right, wants to talk but then won't and accuses me of being not respectful to expect him to talk instead of having fun with his friends watching football and not drinking.

Feels so manipulating. It was just meant to be a simple conversation. I know I don't want to be with him, but I guess I hoped for his wellness. I was stupid to think he'd actually try. I thought perhaps 2 months, not 2 hours. And then I get the abusive, manipulating words....again. I have often felt that he sets me up and then twists the situation back on me, accusing me of the things he's doing and really believing it.. craziness!!!!

As I began this post, why am I so stupid?

Last edited by OpheliaKatz; 08-11-2017 at 03:50 AM. Reason: Typo. I wrote "your" instead of "you". There are probably other mistakes too.
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:01 AM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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This breaks it down so well! I'm going to copy and paste this somewhere, where I can read it when I'm feeling "crazy" and guilty. Thank you so much for writing this.

My AH also promised to quit over and over. And then he asked that I stand by him, over and over, and he actually blamed me for his drug addiction when he could not quit. He blamed me and became violent. It got that bad. I think if I had found this forum years earlier, I would have ended things earlier.

Originally Posted by atalose View Post
Maybe because blocking him truly means you have ended this relationship and that probably scares you. There is always that little flicker of ďhopeĒ that they are going to change into the person we know they can be and remain that person all the time 24/7 and you want to there when that miracle happens.

But like Sparklekitty said, hope is not a plan.

Now letís break down his words and there true meaning.

Full of promises = how many of those promise have you already head? When someone says they are sorry for something but then does the same thing again, they are not sorry at all. They use that word to manipulate you.

Please stand by me = Iím going to equally place my burden of my drinking issue on your shoulders as well so that when I fail again I can also blame you. If you stay and support him and he fails again at recovery he will make that your fault and if you do leave him and he continues to drink he will blame the drinking on you leaving him.

You have not mentioned how long you have been with him but it seems long enough where you have witnessed a number of attempts of him getting sober. So what is different this time? Why do you still believe his words other than having hope that this time he really means it, much like the last time he meant it and the time before that, right?

How about needing and giving space to each other so that each of you can go work on your own issues independent of each other or a relationship. Time will reveal if heís serious about recovery or just playing the alcoholic hostage game with you.
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Old 08-11-2017, 07:36 AM
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When we talk of recovery for ourselves not them, we must ask ourselves – what was my part in it.

Your part is not accepting that the relationship is really over.

Your part is with wanting to believe his words and that the relationship is somehow salvable.

Your part is with wanting him to change who he is in order for you to happy.

Your part is not of a stupid person, your part is someone who is deeply in love with someone unable to accept that love.

Your part is in having picked the wrong person for you.

Your part is in believing that if he would only stop drinking then your life with him would be fantastic.

Your part is in not letting go emotionally and mentally.

Your part is in not blocking him from contacting you.

Your part is in allowing him to continue to hurt you because you can’t/won’t/don’t let go.

His part well, he's an alcoholic doing and saying what alcoholics do.
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Old 08-12-2017, 09:11 AM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by atalose View Post
When we talk of recovery for ourselves not them, we must ask ourselves Ė what was my part in it.

Your part is not accepting that the relationship is really over.

Your part is with wanting to believe his words and that the relationship is somehow salvable.

Your part is with wanting him to change who he is in order for you to happy.

Your part is not of a stupid person, your part is someone who is deeply in love with someone unable to accept that love.

Your part is in having picked the wrong person for you.

Your part is in believing that if he would only stop drinking then your life with him would be fantastic.

Your part is in not letting go emotionally and mentally.

Your part is in not blocking him from contacting you.

Your part is in allowing him to continue to hurt you because you canít/wonít/donít let go.

His part well, he's an alcoholic doing and saying what alcoholics do.
Atalose

Above was extremely to the point & very well said Thank you
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Old 08-28-2017, 12:43 PM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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This is a wonderful forum, full of so much wisdom and support and I am grateful.

Sometimes the truth is hard to hear.

When we start to pull back the blinds of denial, it can be difficult to take in all we begin to see. And difficult to hear what we need to hear. I am someone that welcomes feedback and find that in times of being challenged can bring the greatest growth.
Here I am in one of the most difficult times of my life, full of pain, confusion and chaos. I felt so exposed and raw and I needed to step back, not to run but to reflect and absorb on everything I was hearing. I actually stopped reading on the forum, and left town to visit a girlfriend for a few days. I spent a lot of time walking by myself and reflecting. Getting time away helped.

I wanted to say, I'm back! I started reading more about codependency, this forum and today I started with the question "what do I need today?".

The A in my life is trying to regain footing in my world the last couple days. He has been on a roller coaster and I see no reason to believe it will be different.

So I am staying focused on "what do I need today?", for my business, for my home, for myself. This idea of taking care of myself use to seem selfish and so easy to throw aside if someone wanted or needed something. Today this feels somehow comforting. Today is today and thats all I want to focus on. There is so much to learn and apply. So, my current focus is on detachment and what do I need to take care of myself.

I have a lot to learn and I've only just begun.
Thank you everyone!
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Old 08-28-2017, 08:59 PM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by TLC View Post
So I am staying focused on "what do I need today?", for my business, for my home, for myself. This idea of taking care of myself use to seem selfish and so easy to throw aside if someone wanted or needed something. Today this feels somehow comforting. Today is today and thats all I want to focus on. There is so much to learn and apply. So, my current focus is on detachment and what do I need to take care of myself.
^^^^^^ This!!

Good for you TLC. It took me a long time to learn that there was destructive selflessness and constructive selfishness.

Being codependent turns a lot of relationship concepts on their head.

Keep at it lady!
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Old 09-06-2017, 03:14 PM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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There is so much about being codependent, learning is like opening pandora's box. So much to take in and then how to absorb it all as it has played out in my life. It's overwhelming and often I feel like a messed up crazy person. Is this too much to sort out?
I took off, out of town and went hiking in the mountains to clear my head and get away from this whole thing (and him). He left me alone and then upon return he surfaced with conditions, promises, commitments etc. I was so surprised that this was here again and I felt bamboozled. I thought I had made it clear we had broken up, I told him this was too much for me, with the affects of addiction I was turning into someone I didn't recognize anymore and I need to take care of myself. Somehow after the conversation, it sounded like we were back together. I didn't even see it coming. It was like I was blindfolded and surprise, guess what, we're together again... what?.... how did that happen?..... I was so disappointed that I didn't handle things better, hold my boundaries and stayed aware of the mass manipulation in process.
After beating myself up, it was only a matter of days and he was drinking again. This time happy instead of angry, he must have thought he was pulling the wool over my eyes yet again. But he was met with "I told you I won't do this anymore, you are drinking and this isn't good for me". He said I'm tired of defending myself to you.... goodbye.
It feels like we've both just warn each other out.
Last night, I felt suddenly as though I was seeing things clearer. What I want, what I hope for in a partner, he just isn't. I have had an idea of what it could be, if he was sober, after all he showed me how wonderful things could be. It must have been all an illusion. One either he created or maybe I created. Either way, I followed the breadcrumbs dutifully. I feel like I've been living in Lala land. I want out. I want consistency, dependability, faithful, healthy...... what is my part? why have I been chasing a delusion?
I feel very different about him and this situation that a month ago. I feel detached from him (at least more so), but I want the trajectory of my life to shift so I don't attract this again.
I am in therapy, reading and in al anon..... it just feels like I said earlier Pandora's box has opened and its so much to sort out.
Thanks for allowing me to vent.
TLC
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:14 AM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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Why can't things be easy and clean? Why can't the tie just be severed, fixed, say goodbye, get help? Why does it have to drag on?
I'm thinking I'm doing ok, albeit a lot to learn, process etc. And then I get a curve ball.
Haven't spoken in a couple days to him, told him I won't be in a relationship with someone in active addiction.
He is on FB every few minutes all day long, as long as he is conscious. When he goes off FB for half the day or more typically means he is passed out. So he went off FB for 2 days, only to surface to say that I don't accept or respect him so he doesn't want to be with me anymore. Then he says how he quit drinking and my lack of belief in him, my constant suspicion is too much for him, bringing him too much negativity. he loves him and that's why he quit drinking but I'm such a downer that he needs someone that accepts him and believes in him. on and on...
This gets in my head and starts playing games with me. I know to my core that he has not quit, that he has been drinking all the while but he continues to lie and makes it about my lack of trust. So this plays on my grasp of reality. has he quit? am I being overly suspicious? I don't think so, but it messes with my head.
I think I must want him to just be honest, to catch him with evidence of his lies to make him see its not my inability to love etc and that he has a problem. I know this will not happen as long as he is using. I've believed him or hoped to believe him so many times. Am I just jaded and can't see it when he is successful? I think he is just pulling me along and seeing how many lies he can convince me of....
This is so messed up.
T
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:19 AM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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Why does it have to drag on?

because you choose to remain in contact. you rely on FB to try and track his actions. you listen to his lies, excuses and deflections.

going NO contact shuts that all down. you give his life fully back to him, and in doing so, fully regain your own.
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Old 09-08-2017, 10:52 AM
  # 55 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII View Post
Why does it have to drag on?

because you choose to remain in contact. you rely on FB to try and track his actions. you listen to his lies, excuses and deflections.

going NO contact shuts that all down. you give his life fully back to him, and in doing so, fully regain your own.
Thanks Anvilhead!
I understand these words, I guess to the degree I can right now. What about when the A is trying to get help and to not believe them, does this do more damage? I don't know if he is trying or just giving lip service. I suppose it doesn't really matter.
I guess I need to be strong enough to walk away and totally let go regardless of what he says, how he thinks of me or what he blames me for. I do find it hard to hear of such contorted reality where I am to blame for all his unhappiness. Where he makes things up to justify that I'm the ill one. I am absolutely sure he will find someone new very quickly and high likelihood its a friend in common. We grew up together and have all our friends in common. I will see him again just a matter of our circle of friends and things/places in common.
I'll say, this really hurts. It hurts that someone I loved finds a contorted way of thinking of me and justifies his behavior toward me because of me.

It does keep me invested to try to sort it out, trying to stop the pain. But staying prolongs the pain. I see the codependency here, that is not lost on me. It sometimes feels like I'm trading one pain for another, where I was trying to eliminate one pain by staying involved. I've been giving him all the power over me. It's just so painful.

Stop the contact? I do need to, I see it... It is just so hard.
T
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Old 09-08-2017, 12:11 PM
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TLC.....I think that maybe, it is time to hang o n to the Serenity Prayer.....
It is for situations like this.....
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Old 09-08-2017, 12:15 PM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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You said it yourself: I can not be part of this chaotic, craziness any more.

Can you, or can't you? Good luck.
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:37 PM
  # 58 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
TLC.....I think that maybe, it is time to hang o n to the Serenity Prayer.....
It is for situations like this.....
Thanks for the reminder of the serenity prayer. I never say it outside the meetings. I have been repeating it over and over this afternoon since your suggestion. It's bringing tears to my eyes/heart. But I am very grateful. Thanks again !!!!!
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Old 09-08-2017, 03:22 PM
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Good for you, TLC......!
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:48 PM
  # 60 (permalink)  
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I really understand where you are coming from as I am in the same place as you with my ex boyfriend.
This week has been quite hard for me and I can't understand why I'm feeling weak while he's acting strong. We haven't spoken at all for about 2 weeks but 2 weeks ago he was giving me an ultimatum that I need to stand by him and be 100% in the relationship or he is going to walk away! Is he kidding me? After all I have done with sticking by him, going to therapy with him, giving up drinking with him (I am not a drinker I just like to have a glass of wine every once in a while when we went out to dinner) going to church with him, and just being there to support him. Now he is playing the victim that I am not good enough because he needed me and I wasn't there to support him while he would verbally abuse me and isolate me from my family and friends.
I understand what you're going through and the pain..... trust me I do. I think we become addicted to them because we are so worried that something will happen to them if we are not there to "save" them. Also worried that they will blame us and as good people, we want to help and can't think of living with that guilt if something happens to someone we truly love.

Stay strong! And just know that there are other people going through this. Your feelings are real, feel them... but remember what you deserve... and it sure is not this.
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