I really don't know what to do with my kids
 

I have two young kids, age 5 and 2. I moved out in April and filed for divorce last week. AH is a great dad, when he is sober (which is a lot....he is a binge drinker). However he drank and drove with the kids in Jan, since I moved out drank probably twice while in the presence of the kids (like....really drunk), drank a few days that he was supposed to have them and I ended up taking them, and last week he drank while he had them overnight. When they didn't show up for a daycare class they had I went to the house to find them awake (the one in his crib calling for AH) and AH passed out drinker than a skunk.

Well now my lawyer is asking whati want to do for custody. The court will likely never do supervised visits only so they will end up with him sometimes no matter what it seems, even though some would argue it's not safe. Even now after like 2 days of not seeing AH my kids are complaining they never see him and are missing him. I just wish I had a way of them spending time with him and knowing they are safe. Stinks.

What are others experiences with this?
Anything I should do?

Thanks!

I would discuss your concerns with your attorney. I am not sure where you live, but here in Texas the courts are supposed to puts the kid's interests first. If your lawyer can't provide some guidance, what are you paying him/her for? I swear, bad lawyers are just like bad real estate agents. They want to do the bare minimum but expect to get the same commission/fees as the good ones.

Definitely reach out to your attorney.

He's just not fit to have them unsupervised. He may be a binge drinker, but he couldn't limit his binging to when he didn't have them. Imagine being passed out when you have 2 young children in your care!

Why do you think the court won't award supervised visits only? You have an instance of him drinking and driving with the kids in the car, being passed out drunk while they were at his house, missing access dates because too drunk, and being obviously drunk in their presence. That sounds like a strong case to me.

You say he's a caring father. Maybe after the last episode even he can see they need better protection than he can provide. It would be different if he was able to limit his binges to when he's alone.

Not sure what you are basing that assumption on but talk to your attorney and if it's your attorney telling you that, find another one!

A couple of possibilities:

One is supervised access, where he spends time with the kids but there's another (sober) adult present all the time. The supervisor could be yourself (fun!) or someone else that you both agree on. Some places offer supervised visitation centres, where parents in your situation bring kids for time with a parent who is not able to look after them on his/her own. Ask your attorney about this.

Another option is visitation in a public place (library, park, etc). You bring the kids there and he hangs out with them for a hour or two (probably not much longer, given their ages). If he's drunk, you can leave with the kids.

Given their age and the fact that they're too young to alert an adult if things go badly, I think it is reasonable to say that you don't want them staying at his place until you have reason to be confident that ex will be sober and responsible the whole time (completion of addiction treatment or parenting courses or something - yes, I know these aren't bulletproof but at least it's better than the situation you have now).

Don't be guilted into "the kids need their dad" (which has happened to me). The kids need a responsible and responsive parent, not some drunk snoring on a couch. Until you can be reasonably confident that they will get the former and not the latter, I think you are in good shape to tell your lawyer you don't want them alone with him.

i wouldn't second guess what the courts MIGHT determine - i'd ask for everything - sole custody, LIMITED supervised visitation, NO overnights, possibly breathalyzer prior to visitation. if your attorney won't back you up 100% on this, you got the wrong attorney. the children "should" have a guardian ad litem.......whose sole focus is what is in the best interests of the children.

they are 5 and 2. its ok if they mention "missing" dad after a couple days - that doesn't mean they know what is best for them. they probably also would like ice cream for breakfast, doesn't mean they get it.

please don't get hung up on this "need a father" bit - he has demonstrated he is incapable of being a responsible adult and has in fact been a DANGER to the children's well being.

sounds like my Dad.. back in the 1950's,,,,,,

are you and the kids going to be better off with out the complete family in one spot... and oh well...

Sober Link!

"When they didn't show up for a daycare class they had I went to the house to find them awake (the one in his crib calling for AH) and AH passed out drinker than a skunk."

This is so very frightening! All sorts of horrible things could potentially
happen in a situation like this, not to mention the emotional abuse the
children are suffering because they are frightened, don't understand
whats happening, and they can't help themselves!!

I wholeheartedly agree with other posters that you must fight for
your childrens' safety and if your lawyer can't understand, get one
who does. Please document/video these things, even if you can't
use it in a court of law, you will have evidence if you need it.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but yeh, it triggered me.......
sorry you are dealing with this.

Why do you say he's a great dad? I think of a great dad as a man who is emotionally and physically available to his kids on a consistent and predictable basis. What is a great dad to you? I'm not trying to dig at you, I'm just suggesting that it's important for you to evaluate for yourself what a great dad is for your children, apart from being someone who loves them.

I used to say that AW was "a great mom during the day", and that's true. The reality is - parenting is not an 8-hour, 12-hour, or 16-hour responsibility - it's 24/7. Therefor, once she starts into her nightly bottle, she ceases to be an available parent, and therefor fails at her responsibilities. I can't be out with friends and be out past 8:30, or go on business trips because she is NOT a parent once she starts drinking.

To an extreme, it's like saying that Jeffrey Dahmer was a great guy when he wasn't eating people.

COD

i think sometimes we vett the potential babysitter with a higher degree of due diligence - exactly HOW many times would the babysitter be allowed to GET AWAY WITH being drunk on the job?

Thanks all. I think that I am the road block here. My attorney gave several options but knows I was trying to not "rock the boat" so that I can get through this process and coparent successfully. Ultimately she left it up to me to advise how far I want to take it. Well....

If I go for supervised visits only, AH will get a lawyer and all ability to have productive coparenting/parenting conversations will go out the window. In my state and county, lawyers have said it Ian very difficult to get sole custody without more solid evidence of an issue. Right now, AH hasn't gotten into much trouble or had other instances than what I describe above.

I obviously worry about my kids safety and well being. I just wonder if I am over-dramatizing the actual risk that exists and punishing my kids by not letting them see their dad doing more undo harm.

When I say he isn't a good dad, I mean he is engaged, patient, motivating to the kids, connects with them, teaches them, etc. When he is sober he is truly great. The problem is when he is not sober.....

No doubt you're well intentioned, but this hope is what keeps many of us partners of active alcoholics engaged in relationships long, long, long past our own healthy expiration dates. This hope, in my experience, does way more harm than it helps. Active alcoholics can lose. miss out and give up on just about everything but drinking in most cases. Obviously some opt for recovery, but hoping and hoping that one's partner will be one of the "lucky ones" is what keeps us locked into situations that damage not just us, but many of our children.

Batchel, you might consider attending a few open Al-Anon meetings of ACoAs to gather more information about children's experiences of living with (or staying with) an active alcoholic parent. Make informed choices, not just emotional choices.

It sounds like what you're saying is that he has the POTENTIAL to be a good dad. And that's true of many active alcoholics. They aren't necessarily awful people. But they make lousy partners or parents. Kids do need reliability and stability in their lives. And he will become progressively LESS stable and reliable as his drinking continues.

Kids tend to love their parents no matter what. Even when the parents actually abuse them, they are bonded and love them. So you can't take your kids' LOVE for him as any kind of yardstick for whether it's good for them to be in his care. As the sober, responsible parent here, the onus is on YOU to act in their best interest, whether it makes them (or him) happy in the moment or not.

And if someday he DOES choose sobriety and does the hard work to recover and stay that way, trust me, he will understand why you had to protect the kids. If he continues to drink, well, all bets are off.

I need to read this over and over again.

COD

If I go for supervised visits only, AH will get a lawyer and all ability to have productive coparenting/parenting conversations will go out the window.

Sounds like you are trying to have “normal” with the not-normal. Normal divorced dads don’t pass out drunk while the children are in their care. There is never a worry with normal divorced dads regarding the safely of the children while in their care or the fear of him possible driving drunk with them in the car. Normal divorced moms don’t sit stressed out with worry every single time the dad has the children preventing them from enjoying some free time.

I’m just not sure how much quality or productive coparenting can get accomplished when one of those parents are operating with an alcohol soaked brain. Just because an alcoholic hasn’t consumed alcohol doesn’t mean they are operating with a sober brain, don’t fool yourself or minimize the serious current situation these 2 small children will be placed in.

It took me some time to get up the courage to start telling my ex, "Have your attorney contact my attorney." Like you, I feared setting him off by seeming to escalate and revert to contact only through lawyers, but our "discussions" to supposedly settle issues always devolved into crazymaking.

I finally saw that if we were able to have a rational discussion about safety concerns due to his drinking behavior, we wouldn't be in that situation. Everything out of his mouth boiled down to him not being willing to quit drinking, period. The rest was just noise and nonsense. And you know, he never once had his attorney contact my attorney. Once it cost him actual money to harass me, he lost interest in doing it.

I couldn't control his reactions, but I didn't have to make it easy for him to take his stuff out on me.:grouphug:

This! Bravo!!!!