He's working on himself
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 40
He's working on himself
Hi all,
I haven't posted much but I read here almost every day. I haven't been attending al-anon due to taking care of parents and other elderly family. I know I need to get back. I have been working on detaching, and I have been feeling better, however, some things just bother me.
Recently, my AH (working on 4th month of recovery), was honored to be asked to lead an AA meeting. On his own he explained to me the mechanics of what he had to do. I didn't ask questions regarding his plans, I just acknowledged that it was a good thing.
He came home energized and happy. It had gone well. His topic was well received and sparked lots of shares. Again, I didn't ask details.
He volunteered his topic to me and explained how he felt. Which I think is good, I just let him talk. It let's me know that he is digging deep and working on himself. I didn't volunteer my thoughts on the subject or how I felt and he didn't ask.
However, the more I think about this the more sad I become. Basically, he is a snob when it comes to his education and profession. Throughout the years he would say derogatory things about people who were not as educated as him. When I would point out that I am not as educated, he would say, "Oh, but I don't mean you". However, I always felt that yes, he does feel that way about me. The reason for this is because if, for instance, I had a suggestion on finances or parenting, he would blow me off, then talk to co-workers. He would then come back to me and say, we should do *such and such* which would be exactly what I said. Basically, over the years he has dismissed me. I, who started my own business, worked 6-7 days per week, 10+ hours a day to put him through graduate school, but didn't have the formal education to equal him.
When he started this current path of sobriety, I would make a comment about his past behavior. He would say that's in the past, and something about not staring in the rear view mirror. I just wish he would just acknowledge that he treated me this way or felt this way about me. Perhaps this is one of those things that will be revealed down the road as he works on his steps? But then, there is the whole excuse of "not hurting the person".....
How do I deal with having a marriage with open communication & discussion of feelings when there is this line that I'm not supposed to cross in order to let him "walk on his side of the street?" Am I missing something?
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!
PinkPetuna
I haven't posted much but I read here almost every day. I haven't been attending al-anon due to taking care of parents and other elderly family. I know I need to get back. I have been working on detaching, and I have been feeling better, however, some things just bother me.
Recently, my AH (working on 4th month of recovery), was honored to be asked to lead an AA meeting. On his own he explained to me the mechanics of what he had to do. I didn't ask questions regarding his plans, I just acknowledged that it was a good thing.
He came home energized and happy. It had gone well. His topic was well received and sparked lots of shares. Again, I didn't ask details.
He volunteered his topic to me and explained how he felt. Which I think is good, I just let him talk. It let's me know that he is digging deep and working on himself. I didn't volunteer my thoughts on the subject or how I felt and he didn't ask.
However, the more I think about this the more sad I become. Basically, he is a snob when it comes to his education and profession. Throughout the years he would say derogatory things about people who were not as educated as him. When I would point out that I am not as educated, he would say, "Oh, but I don't mean you". However, I always felt that yes, he does feel that way about me. The reason for this is because if, for instance, I had a suggestion on finances or parenting, he would blow me off, then talk to co-workers. He would then come back to me and say, we should do *such and such* which would be exactly what I said. Basically, over the years he has dismissed me. I, who started my own business, worked 6-7 days per week, 10+ hours a day to put him through graduate school, but didn't have the formal education to equal him.
When he started this current path of sobriety, I would make a comment about his past behavior. He would say that's in the past, and something about not staring in the rear view mirror. I just wish he would just acknowledge that he treated me this way or felt this way about me. Perhaps this is one of those things that will be revealed down the road as he works on his steps? But then, there is the whole excuse of "not hurting the person".....
How do I deal with having a marriage with open communication & discussion of feelings when there is this line that I'm not supposed to cross in order to let him "walk on his side of the street?" Am I missing something?
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!
PinkPetuna
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Hi PP.
I think this is worth having a conversation b/c it bothers you a lot, and it's not likely to change. Especially if he does not realize he even does it. (Just anticipating his response here).
Yes, you have to let someone stay on their own side of the street, but you also have to be able to openly communicate about issues that affect YOUR side of the street.
I once heard that it's almost impossible to fight while holding hands. Maybe it's time to grab his hand, and tell him gently what's bothering you.
Big hugs to you!
I think this is worth having a conversation b/c it bothers you a lot, and it's not likely to change. Especially if he does not realize he even does it. (Just anticipating his response here).
Yes, you have to let someone stay on their own side of the street, but you also have to be able to openly communicate about issues that affect YOUR side of the street.
I once heard that it's almost impossible to fight while holding hands. Maybe it's time to grab his hand, and tell him gently what's bothering you.
Big hugs to you!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
4 months into recovery is a relatively short period. Does not sound like he has done an awful lot of work on his character defects or humility.
That being said and coming from someone who spent the last several years taking care of aging parents, you need to make time for you and your own recovery from the affects that alcoholism has had on your life. It’s hard not to have resentments but places like al-anon or therapy can help you work on those. Just like a support group can help you to stop walking on egg shells, stop putting his needs first and help you realize you are equally important. A support group can help you learn how to communicate to him without thinking you are jeopardizing or interfering with his recovery.
One of my early sponsors in al-anon told me that if they were not a piano player before starting recovery they aren’t going to become one from recovery. Meaning, some character defects are not from the alcohol it’s who they are, their personality. They may have always been a frog while we think recovery is going to turn them into a prince. Maybe he’s always been a snob, maybe he’s always dismissed you and your feelings, that may not change it may be who and how he is.
Was there always a communication issues, were you always in fear of sharing your feelings of hurt with him?
That being said and coming from someone who spent the last several years taking care of aging parents, you need to make time for you and your own recovery from the affects that alcoholism has had on your life. It’s hard not to have resentments but places like al-anon or therapy can help you work on those. Just like a support group can help you to stop walking on egg shells, stop putting his needs first and help you realize you are equally important. A support group can help you learn how to communicate to him without thinking you are jeopardizing or interfering with his recovery.
One of my early sponsors in al-anon told me that if they were not a piano player before starting recovery they aren’t going to become one from recovery. Meaning, some character defects are not from the alcohol it’s who they are, their personality. They may have always been a frog while we think recovery is going to turn them into a prince. Maybe he’s always been a snob, maybe he’s always dismissed you and your feelings, that may not change it may be who and how he is.
Was there always a communication issues, were you always in fear of sharing your feelings of hurt with him?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 40
Thank you for your responses.
True, he is early in the process. His sponsor told him from the beginning that they will be working slowly and thoroughly on each step. My AH has told me that he has been working on step 4. Beyond that, I know nothing. I've felt like I'm in a holding pattern waiting and afraid of what amends I might hear.
Atalose, I do think he was insecure when we first met, that might have developed/progressed to arrogance with the education/profession. I know that 20+ years of this behavior is not going to be resolved in a few months.
I am becoming more self aware. Reading co-dependant no more. I do not stand up for myself (I've never been a confrontational person) and I have let him subtly bully me to an extent. I have allowed him to get away with his selfishness.
Perhaps at some point we will need marriage counseling? But then I'd probably have to wait until he has worked through all of the steps? When I try to communicate my feelings, I get frustrated with myself and he gets frustrated or exasperated with me. I can't get him to understand what I'm feeling. Or is it that in that he doesn't want to hear what I am saying? He's a master at arguing and it feels to me that he twists my words to benefit himself. I'm sure my difficulties come from years of dealing with the alcoholism.
Thank you, hopeful4. I am a rule follower. I've been working on detaching and in doing so I've been hiding my feelings from him as he works through the steps. I'm not clear on the "rules of engagement". It's good to know that it's okay to bring this up to him. I'll give your suggestion of hand holding a try.
Another question, since he has acknowledged this character flaw of arrogance, if I hear him make dismissive comments, I can bring it to his attention, right? And there are other areas of himself that I'd like him to work on too, but I'm trying to detach and I'm not sure of my role.
Sorry I am all over the place. I truly appreciate your input.
PP
True, he is early in the process. His sponsor told him from the beginning that they will be working slowly and thoroughly on each step. My AH has told me that he has been working on step 4. Beyond that, I know nothing. I've felt like I'm in a holding pattern waiting and afraid of what amends I might hear.
Atalose, I do think he was insecure when we first met, that might have developed/progressed to arrogance with the education/profession. I know that 20+ years of this behavior is not going to be resolved in a few months.
I am becoming more self aware. Reading co-dependant no more. I do not stand up for myself (I've never been a confrontational person) and I have let him subtly bully me to an extent. I have allowed him to get away with his selfishness.
Perhaps at some point we will need marriage counseling? But then I'd probably have to wait until he has worked through all of the steps? When I try to communicate my feelings, I get frustrated with myself and he gets frustrated or exasperated with me. I can't get him to understand what I'm feeling. Or is it that in that he doesn't want to hear what I am saying? He's a master at arguing and it feels to me that he twists my words to benefit himself. I'm sure my difficulties come from years of dealing with the alcoholism.
Thank you, hopeful4. I am a rule follower. I've been working on detaching and in doing so I've been hiding my feelings from him as he works through the steps. I'm not clear on the "rules of engagement". It's good to know that it's okay to bring this up to him. I'll give your suggestion of hand holding a try.
Another question, since he has acknowledged this character flaw of arrogance, if I hear him make dismissive comments, I can bring it to his attention, right? And there are other areas of himself that I'd like him to work on too, but I'm trying to detach and I'm not sure of my role.
Sorry I am all over the place. I truly appreciate your input.
PP
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Hi, PP.
What if you wrote down your feelings and how he makes you feel?
You could hone it, work on it until you had it just the way you wanted it.
You could give it to him, or read from it when you are both calm and listening to each other.
I find the act of physically writing, while tiring to my hands, unlocks my brain and gives me clarity.
Please do find an avenue of support, whether it's Al-Anon, therapy, talking to someone you trust. Something.
Maybe this is who he is, though, and if he has had this pattern of behavior with you and others for many years, I wouldn't expect a massive change.
That he argues with you and twists your words back on you is not, in my opinion, an indication of someone open to listening.
Good luck.
What if you wrote down your feelings and how he makes you feel?
You could hone it, work on it until you had it just the way you wanted it.
You could give it to him, or read from it when you are both calm and listening to each other.
I find the act of physically writing, while tiring to my hands, unlocks my brain and gives me clarity.
Please do find an avenue of support, whether it's Al-Anon, therapy, talking to someone you trust. Something.
Maybe this is who he is, though, and if he has had this pattern of behavior with you and others for many years, I wouldn't expect a massive change.
That he argues with you and twists your words back on you is not, in my opinion, an indication of someone open to listening.
Good luck.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by PinkPetuna 
Hi all,
I have been working on detaching, and I have been feeling better, however, some things just bother me.
On his own he explained to me the mechanics of what he had to do. I didn't ask questions regarding his plans, I just acknowledged that it was a good thing.
He came home energized and happy. It had gone well. His topic was well received and sparked lots of shares. Again, I didn't ask details.
He volunteered his topic to me and explained how he felt. Which I think is good, I just let him talk. It let's me know that he is digging deep and working on himself. I didn't volunteer my thoughts on the subject or how I felt and he didn't ask.
However, the more I think about this the more sad I become. Basically, he is a snob when it comes to his education and profession. Throughout the years he would say derogatory things about people who were not as educated as him. When I would point out that I am not as educated, he would say, "Oh, but I don't mean you". However, I always felt that yes, he does feel that way about me. The reason for this is because if, for instance, I had a suggestion on finances or parenting, he would blow me off, then talk to co-workers. He would then come back to me and say, we should do *such and such* which would be exactly what I said. Basically, over the years he has dismissed me. I, who started my own business, worked 6-7 days per week, 10+ hours a day to put him through graduate school, but didn't have the formal education to equal him.
When he started this current path of sobriety, I would make a comment about his past behavior. He would say that's in the past, and something about not staring in the rear view mirror. I just wish he would just acknowledge that he treated me this way or felt this way about me. Perhaps this is one of those things that will be revealed down the road as he works on his steps? But then, there is the whole excuse of "not hurting the person".....
How do I deal with having a marriage with open communication & discussion of feelings when there is this line that I'm not supposed to cross in order to let him "walk on his side of the street?" Am I missing something?
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!
PinkPetuna
I have been working on detaching, and I have been feeling better, however, some things just bother me.
On his own he explained to me the mechanics of what he had to do. I didn't ask questions regarding his plans, I just acknowledged that it was a good thing.
He came home energized and happy. It had gone well. His topic was well received and sparked lots of shares. Again, I didn't ask details.
He volunteered his topic to me and explained how he felt. Which I think is good, I just let him talk. It let's me know that he is digging deep and working on himself. I didn't volunteer my thoughts on the subject or how I felt and he didn't ask.
However, the more I think about this the more sad I become. Basically, he is a snob when it comes to his education and profession. Throughout the years he would say derogatory things about people who were not as educated as him. When I would point out that I am not as educated, he would say, "Oh, but I don't mean you". However, I always felt that yes, he does feel that way about me. The reason for this is because if, for instance, I had a suggestion on finances or parenting, he would blow me off, then talk to co-workers. He would then come back to me and say, we should do *such and such* which would be exactly what I said. Basically, over the years he has dismissed me. I, who started my own business, worked 6-7 days per week, 10+ hours a day to put him through graduate school, but didn't have the formal education to equal him.
When he started this current path of sobriety, I would make a comment about his past behavior. He would say that's in the past, and something about not staring in the rear view mirror. I just wish he would just acknowledge that he treated me this way or felt this way about me. Perhaps this is one of those things that will be revealed down the road as he works on his steps? But then, there is the whole excuse of "not hurting the person".....
How do I deal with having a marriage with open communication & discussion of feelings when there is this line that I'm not supposed to cross in order to let him "walk on his side of the street?" Am I missing something?
Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!
PinkPetuna
In my opinion, "Letting him walk on his side of the street" means simply giving space so he can grow, and understand he may have hobbies, interests, friends that are apart from your relationship - or a need to attend meetings in order to be heal from his addiction. It means these things arent taking away from your marriage, but allowing him to be a person who is happier, more diverse, or healthier - so he has more to offer to the relationship with you.
And that is all. Why cant you discuss these things, share feelings, be excited for him as he makes his first speech? Ask if he was nervous, or tell him congrats of a job well done?
The other part. Where in the past he has made you feel "less than".. I think you need to work 1. on your part to make sure you are not doing negative self talk on yourself. that you understand your worth, your opinions and views hold weight, and plus your partner should respect your feelings and insights. If your having a hard time with this part then maybe try a therapist? I turned to one, and gave me a lot of clarity. 2. At some point you need to let him know how you feel in a way that does not guilt, or promote conflict.
If he doesnt understand the depths of how this behavior or any of his other actions have made you feel - how will he be able to address it in his step work? People do the steps for themselves, and they dont even have to engage in conversation with others to make their determinations on this. Its not about you so much, as its about his relieving himself of pain and wrong he himself has recognized he caused.
You might want to consider marriage counseling to help you communicate better as a couple, and express some of the pain so it can be dealt with. My husband and I started this at a point less than 4 months and it was very helpful. This stuff affects all family members, and the family cant be healed IMO unless they work together and communicate. Another option, if you are religious. A couple weeks ago we decided to try something different and are now using a Christian counselor. Not the same credentials as a psychologist, but very capable when in comes to discussing marriage, commitment, communication, personal beliefs, and future goals and expectations.
It does sound like your feeling sad, so I hope you will try to listen to that feeling, and make changes where you can.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: America
Posts: 4,136
The way he has dismissed your suggestions or blown you off in the past/currently could be more than just a flaw of addiction. And him stopping drinking may not just make those types of things go away. Some of that is just stuff that happens between couples in long term relationships, sadly. It's like when it comes to the wife, the husband turns a deaf ear, but will listen more readily to a complete stranger or co-workers. I've seen that a lot with couples. And for some couples, it doesn't seem to bother them, but if it bothers you it bothers you. Maybe try talking to him calmly about this and see how it's received. If he's made a habit of dismissing you a lot over the years, it may take awhile to change that.
Now, as to him being a snob and you perhaps feeling inferior. That's tough one sometimes. If he truly is a snob, not sure how to change that. But each person needs to come to a place within their own self in which they feel good about who they are, what they do and know in their heart they have redeeming qualities that no one can take away from by making comments or having a certain attitude. If his attitude bothers you, maybe that's a civilized discussion you could have. He HAS said things like, "I don't mean you." And, likely, you can believe him when he says that.
Yes, there is a certain amount of staying on your side of the street, but if you feel he truly puts you down, like for real...that's a type of emotional abuse.
Now, as to him being a snob and you perhaps feeling inferior. That's tough one sometimes. If he truly is a snob, not sure how to change that. But each person needs to come to a place within their own self in which they feel good about who they are, what they do and know in their heart they have redeeming qualities that no one can take away from by making comments or having a certain attitude. If his attitude bothers you, maybe that's a civilized discussion you could have. He HAS said things like, "I don't mean you." And, likely, you can believe him when he says that.
Yes, there is a certain amount of staying on your side of the street, but if you feel he truly puts you down, like for real...that's a type of emotional abuse.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
maybe there was more to the conversation than you mentioned here, but i'm curious how it went from HIM talking about chairing a meeting , part of his newly formed recovery - and all the resentments that you listed after that??? there's some segue i'm not getting.....
while chairing a meeting is an honor, it's not the same as being the invited featured speaker at the once a month Birthday Night meeting. it's service work first off, which is a key element of AA recovery - being of service to others. basically you hand out the readings, bring the meeting to order, go thru a few protocols, then perhaps suggest a topic, and open the meeting to the REST of the group. then close the meeting in a timely fashion.
i think the mistake a lot of spouses make is assuming that now that their partner is in a 12th step program, they will be getting their just and due amends any minute now. but that is not the POINT of recovery OR the 12 steps. it's not a "how to" fix for marital strife and discord. and a rushed amends is just that....rushed, done for the sake of doing and about as useful as any of the 1,233 I'm Sorry's given in the past.
we often say work the recovery we wish THEY would. try engaging in one's own recovery and thoroughly working the steps to the best of one's ability, on a daily basis. attend meetings, do service work, get a sponsor, welcome the newcomer, work the steps. it's not as "easy" as it looks...........
while chairing a meeting is an honor, it's not the same as being the invited featured speaker at the once a month Birthday Night meeting. it's service work first off, which is a key element of AA recovery - being of service to others. basically you hand out the readings, bring the meeting to order, go thru a few protocols, then perhaps suggest a topic, and open the meeting to the REST of the group. then close the meeting in a timely fashion.
i think the mistake a lot of spouses make is assuming that now that their partner is in a 12th step program, they will be getting their just and due amends any minute now. but that is not the POINT of recovery OR the 12 steps. it's not a "how to" fix for marital strife and discord. and a rushed amends is just that....rushed, done for the sake of doing and about as useful as any of the 1,233 I'm Sorry's given in the past.
we often say work the recovery we wish THEY would. try engaging in one's own recovery and thoroughly working the steps to the best of one's ability, on a daily basis. attend meetings, do service work, get a sponsor, welcome the newcomer, work the steps. it's not as "easy" as it looks...........
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
sure seems ive read your experience in the chapter,"the family afterwards" and "to wives" in the big book of AA.
"Another question, since he has acknowledged this character flaw of arrogance, if I hear him make dismissive comments, I can bring it to his attention, right? And there are other areas of himself that I'd like him to work on too, but I'm trying to detach and I'm not sure of my role."
you can do whatever you darn well please.
want him taking your inventory? want him to tell you what area of your life he would like you to work on?
"Another question, since he has acknowledged this character flaw of arrogance, if I hear him make dismissive comments, I can bring it to his attention, right? And there are other areas of himself that I'd like him to work on too, but I'm trying to detach and I'm not sure of my role."
you can do whatever you darn well please.
want him taking your inventory? want him to tell you what area of your life he would like you to work on?
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
PinkPetuna....it has been only four months....which is just the beginning of recovery....
Early recovery is far more difficult for the loved ones than most people are prepared for....as you will see from the many, many stories, here on SR.
It sounds like you have spent a lot of time being of service to others...your family--and, your husband.
It sounds like you have been the last on the list, in many ways....
I often say that I think the recovering alcoholic and the family should live separately for, at least. the first year....like far away in a monestary.....lol...
It w ould be more humane for all concerned ...in my opinion. Thank goodness, my qualifier lived many hundreds of miles away....
It is no lie...the first months of recovery are selfish times for the alcoholic....as they are usually fighting for their lives and learning how to live without drinking....it is hard work and it is very time consuming and requires that they put their sobriety as the first priority in their life...otherwise, all will be lost, anyway.....
Drinking is selfish (for the loved ones)....and early recovery (first 1-2 years or so) is selfish time for the loved ones, also.
This realization can be very crushing news for the loved ones...who often see early recovery as the times when all of their hopes and dreams for the relationship would finally come true..."If they would just stop drinking"........
Reading through the many accounts recorded, here, you will see that lots of loved ones feel that they have been "used" and discarded, to the side....while all the attention and sun shines on the alcoholic...
After many years of living with the effects that alcoholism can bestow on the family...it is no wonder that this is the case....
In reading your post...it looks, to me, like you are trying hard to do the "right thing".....to detach and to give him a wide berth to deal with his recovery....
Perhaps, no one has prepared you for what early recovery is really like...Nor, told you that this is also the time when you are entitled to be selfish...selfish, in the sense of putting yourself first for, maybe, the first time, ever.......
Also, maybe, you haven't been alerted to the fact that apologies or amends will b a long time coming...if ever....
It takes a long time for the alcoholic to change their "alcoholic thinking"....The alcoholic thinking does not allow for the awareness of the loved ones' pain...it is all that the alcoholic can do to just get from one day to the next and protect and rationalize their drinking.
I think it is safe to say to not expect much from the alcoholic in early recovery...to lower the bar on your expectations...because they are probably not going to meet them...not for a long time, anyways....
This is why it is often advised to "put yourself first"...just like the alcoholic in early recovery is doing...Obtain your companionship from your friends and family, and others. Do fun things with other people, Make your side of the street a fun and enjoyable place to be....AND, to gift yourself with the places that you can do your own self examination and gain more self understanding...and, to get your own validation....Places like alanon (or such support group)....a therapist of your very own...someone who is "on your side"....
In short...you must start living your life for yourself...and, not in the service of others....not to the unbalanced degree that you have in past years...
This will be a time of change for you and for him, as well. **The changes come slowly, rather than overnight.
Who knows if your marriage will make it? Some do...and, others just don't....
There at no guarantees. all you can do is the right thing for your own welfare and see what happens.....
I am rambling on about this in an effort to give you some food for thought.... (not to make you feel worse...though I may have). I hope not...
I know that this is a very tough time, for you...and, you are entitled to have a good life...one where you are able to thrive, and not to just exist....
Early recovery is far more difficult for the loved ones than most people are prepared for....as you will see from the many, many stories, here on SR.
It sounds like you have spent a lot of time being of service to others...your family--and, your husband.
It sounds like you have been the last on the list, in many ways....
I often say that I think the recovering alcoholic and the family should live separately for, at least. the first year....like far away in a monestary.....lol...
It w ould be more humane for all concerned ...in my opinion. Thank goodness, my qualifier lived many hundreds of miles away....
It is no lie...the first months of recovery are selfish times for the alcoholic....as they are usually fighting for their lives and learning how to live without drinking....it is hard work and it is very time consuming and requires that they put their sobriety as the first priority in their life...otherwise, all will be lost, anyway.....
Drinking is selfish (for the loved ones)....and early recovery (first 1-2 years or so) is selfish time for the loved ones, also.
This realization can be very crushing news for the loved ones...who often see early recovery as the times when all of their hopes and dreams for the relationship would finally come true..."If they would just stop drinking"........
Reading through the many accounts recorded, here, you will see that lots of loved ones feel that they have been "used" and discarded, to the side....while all the attention and sun shines on the alcoholic...
After many years of living with the effects that alcoholism can bestow on the family...it is no wonder that this is the case....
In reading your post...it looks, to me, like you are trying hard to do the "right thing".....to detach and to give him a wide berth to deal with his recovery....
Perhaps, no one has prepared you for what early recovery is really like...Nor, told you that this is also the time when you are entitled to be selfish...selfish, in the sense of putting yourself first for, maybe, the first time, ever.......
Also, maybe, you haven't been alerted to the fact that apologies or amends will b a long time coming...if ever....
It takes a long time for the alcoholic to change their "alcoholic thinking"....The alcoholic thinking does not allow for the awareness of the loved ones' pain...it is all that the alcoholic can do to just get from one day to the next and protect and rationalize their drinking.
I think it is safe to say to not expect much from the alcoholic in early recovery...to lower the bar on your expectations...because they are probably not going to meet them...not for a long time, anyways....
This is why it is often advised to "put yourself first"...just like the alcoholic in early recovery is doing...Obtain your companionship from your friends and family, and others. Do fun things with other people, Make your side of the street a fun and enjoyable place to be....AND, to gift yourself with the places that you can do your own self examination and gain more self understanding...and, to get your own validation....Places like alanon (or such support group)....a therapist of your very own...someone who is "on your side"....
In short...you must start living your life for yourself...and, not in the service of others....not to the unbalanced degree that you have in past years...
This will be a time of change for you and for him, as well. **The changes come slowly, rather than overnight.
Who knows if your marriage will make it? Some do...and, others just don't....
There at no guarantees. all you can do is the right thing for your own welfare and see what happens.....
I am rambling on about this in an effort to give you some food for thought.... (not to make you feel worse...though I may have). I hope not...
I know that this is a very tough time, for you...and, you are entitled to have a good life...one where you are able to thrive, and not to just exist....
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by dandylion
This is why it is often advised to "put yourself first"...Obtain your companionship from your friends and family, and others. Do fun things with other people, Make your side of the street a fun and enjoyable place to be....AND, to gift yourself with the places that you can do your own self examination and gain more self understanding...and, to get your own validation....Places like alanon (or such support group)....a therapist of your very own...someone who is "on your side"....
In short...you must start living your life for yourself...
In short...you must start living your life for yourself...
It's a journey and it takes time to work through everything. Take care of yourself. Put more emotional investment into yourself, not him. The gift you give yourself is priceless.
I'm with you on the monastery too, Dandylion.
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 34
I understand your confusion
PP, I understand where you are. What is ok to get involved with? What is ok to say? Not say? When are we detaching with love? Or just detaching? When, how do we support them, but protect us? So many questions and I wish I had the answers.
I agree with the folks here who recommend counseling and al-anon for yourself. My AH and I held off on marriage counseling, mostly because he was opposed to it. We are now a year into quasi recovery, with relapse. We have had a very tough year, and are finally starting couples therapy. I am afraid we are too far gone now, though. I think we would have been better to try it sooner, before new hurts and misunderstandings occurred. If you both are in agreement to try, it could be of benefit to you both as you navigate this time in your lives. I wish you both the best and hope for peace and happiness in your lives. Take care of yourself.
I agree with the folks here who recommend counseling and al-anon for yourself. My AH and I held off on marriage counseling, mostly because he was opposed to it. We are now a year into quasi recovery, with relapse. We have had a very tough year, and are finally starting couples therapy. I am afraid we are too far gone now, though. I think we would have been better to try it sooner, before new hurts and misunderstandings occurred. If you both are in agreement to try, it could be of benefit to you both as you navigate this time in your lives. I wish you both the best and hope for peace and happiness in your lives. Take care of yourself.
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,235
Basically, he is a snob when it comes to his education and profession. Throughout the years he would say derogatory things about people who were not as educated as him. When I would point out that I am not as educated, he would say, "Oh, but I don't mean you". However, I always felt that yes, he does feel that way about me.
An graduate degree, even one from an Ivy League university, does not prevent you from being dumb as rocks. I guess that sounded snobbish. Oh well.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 40
Thank you all again, so much food for thought, and I am grateful.
Teatreeoil007, perhaps he is just dismissing me just because I am his wife. Perhaps I’m extra sensitive, it’s something I’ll have to work out.
AnvilheadII, I guess what I was trying to explain was that he was so excited when he came home. It was such a positive experience for him and I was happy for him. Then he shared with me what his topic was. I felt deflated and sad. But I didn’t let him know. I let him talk and kept my reaction positive. Perhaps he doesn’t really associate me with the other people he felt were inferior. I just don’t know. He looked in my eyes and lied about his drinking, so the trust is not there.
Dandylion, I cried yesterday when I read your “ramblings” (and again today when re-reading it). Thank you. This is what I needed to hear. I'm so appreciative. It’s true that I have no idea what to expect and I do have a hard time putting myself first. I’m the last to get my hair cut, only make the dental and eye appointments after everyone else has been taken care of. I’m trying so hard to not talk about my feelings related to his sobriety. I have been trying to detach and do more for myself outside the home. In fact, I’ve done so much more than I used to that a friend recently commented on it.
And, I need to remember that this is a marathon not a sprint to recovery.
Jjnorris, to all your questions, Yes! I feel like I am floundering through this.
Last night, I tried reaching out to him. The conversation began when he started talking again about his meeting (but never explained what the story was about). It seems to me that he is feeling good in that he’s not alone in his thoughts. (let me interject here that in the past he has said that he wanted us to go to one of the open speaker meetings together, which I took as sharing of some of this journey together). I mentioned that I’d be interested in reading that story, thinking that he's opened the door so this topic is open for discussion. He got quiet and said that his book is highlighted with notes. And I said, that’s okay, I could read it on-line. He said that would be better, but that after I read it he didn’t want to discuss it with me. I told him that was fine, and explained that I didn’t know what the rules were for communication/discussions and that I was trying to work my way through this. He didn’t really respond to that.
Perhaps I need to be stronger and keep a wall up. Concentrate on listening, not responding, and most importantly, not stewing about what he says. We’re only 4 months in.....
Again, thank you all.
Teatreeoil007, perhaps he is just dismissing me just because I am his wife. Perhaps I’m extra sensitive, it’s something I’ll have to work out.
AnvilheadII, I guess what I was trying to explain was that he was so excited when he came home. It was such a positive experience for him and I was happy for him. Then he shared with me what his topic was. I felt deflated and sad. But I didn’t let him know. I let him talk and kept my reaction positive. Perhaps he doesn’t really associate me with the other people he felt were inferior. I just don’t know. He looked in my eyes and lied about his drinking, so the trust is not there.
Dandylion, I cried yesterday when I read your “ramblings” (and again today when re-reading it). Thank you. This is what I needed to hear. I'm so appreciative. It’s true that I have no idea what to expect and I do have a hard time putting myself first. I’m the last to get my hair cut, only make the dental and eye appointments after everyone else has been taken care of. I’m trying so hard to not talk about my feelings related to his sobriety. I have been trying to detach and do more for myself outside the home. In fact, I’ve done so much more than I used to that a friend recently commented on it.
And, I need to remember that this is a marathon not a sprint to recovery.
Jjnorris, to all your questions, Yes! I feel like I am floundering through this.
Last night, I tried reaching out to him. The conversation began when he started talking again about his meeting (but never explained what the story was about). It seems to me that he is feeling good in that he’s not alone in his thoughts. (let me interject here that in the past he has said that he wanted us to go to one of the open speaker meetings together, which I took as sharing of some of this journey together). I mentioned that I’d be interested in reading that story, thinking that he's opened the door so this topic is open for discussion. He got quiet and said that his book is highlighted with notes. And I said, that’s okay, I could read it on-line. He said that would be better, but that after I read it he didn’t want to discuss it with me. I told him that was fine, and explained that I didn’t know what the rules were for communication/discussions and that I was trying to work my way through this. He didn’t really respond to that.
Perhaps I need to be stronger and keep a wall up. Concentrate on listening, not responding, and most importantly, not stewing about what he says. We’re only 4 months in.....
Again, thank you all.
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PinkP......you don't have to listen endlessly to his recovery stories. That is what his AA fellows and his sponsor are for. His recovery stuff is on his side of the street....Just like your recovery stuff is on your side of the street.
You don't have to be mean about it...you can just gently remind him...Something like...."I understand how meaningful this stuff is for you, but, it is best that I stay out of your recovery, and keep to my own side of the street".
Personally, I don't think it sounds very fair for you to listen to him rattle on about his new experiences but have to keep all comments and feelings about it silent....that just doesn't sound like a conversation of equals to me, at all....
There is a saying "Say what you mean/mean what you say/but don't say it mean."
Now, if you two were to watch a movie, together, then have a discussion about it...each sharing your reactions, etc...I see that as a different matter....
I know that you are craving for him to really "see" you, and want him to value your opinions and respect your feelings...in short--to know that you matter to him.....That is normal to want in a relationship, I think....
But, at 4 months, he is probably still floating on his "pink cloud" .....and in early recovery, it is said that many alcoholics can have the "King Baby" syndrome....and be totally wrapped up in themselves, and their entitlements...
Over time, if he continues to m ake the necessary internal changes in his thinking and attitudes, and behaviors....this kind of stuff may abate....
Or, it may not...It will take a while to see what he is really made of.....
In the meantime, I don't think you should have to float around as the silent, self-denying hand servant.....
I think you are working very hard on this....and I think it may take a while for you to get comfortable in emerging as an individual of your own...as valid and equal.....
Keep working on yourself and developing your own elf, and it will come..... -
You don't have to be mean about it...you can just gently remind him...Something like...."I understand how meaningful this stuff is for you, but, it is best that I stay out of your recovery, and keep to my own side of the street".
Personally, I don't think it sounds very fair for you to listen to him rattle on about his new experiences but have to keep all comments and feelings about it silent....that just doesn't sound like a conversation of equals to me, at all....
There is a saying "Say what you mean/mean what you say/but don't say it mean."
Now, if you two were to watch a movie, together, then have a discussion about it...each sharing your reactions, etc...I see that as a different matter....
I know that you are craving for him to really "see" you, and want him to value your opinions and respect your feelings...in short--to know that you matter to him.....That is normal to want in a relationship, I think....
But, at 4 months, he is probably still floating on his "pink cloud" .....and in early recovery, it is said that many alcoholics can have the "King Baby" syndrome....and be totally wrapped up in themselves, and their entitlements...
Over time, if he continues to m ake the necessary internal changes in his thinking and attitudes, and behaviors....this kind of stuff may abate....
Or, it may not...It will take a while to see what he is really made of.....
In the meantime, I don't think you should have to float around as the silent, self-denying hand servant.....
I think you are working very hard on this....and I think it may take a while for you to get comfortable in emerging as an individual of your own...as valid and equal.....
Keep working on yourself and developing your own elf, and it will come..... -
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
The steps are easy until you get to Step Four...
...Step Four is what separates the adults from the children. after 14 years in recovery I've met hundreds of people who have done Steps 1-3, and a fair number that have done Step Four as well. The number of people who have completed the steps is far, far lower, but almost all the people I know who have completed the steps and continue to work the program have long-term sobriety and damn good lives.
Good luck to you. If not already, please consider attending Alanon regularly.
Cyranoak
Good luck to you. If not already, please consider attending Alanon regularly.
Cyranoak
Originally Posted by PinkPetuna
Thank you for your responses.
True, he is early in the process. His sponsor told him from the beginning that they will be working slowly and thoroughly on each step. My AH has told me that he has been working on step 4. Beyond that, I know nothing. I've felt like I'm in a holding pattern waiting and afraid of what amends I might hear.
Atalose, I do think he was insecure when we first met, that might have developed/progressed to arrogance with the education/profession. I know that 20+ years of this behavior is not going to be resolved in a few months.
I am becoming more self aware. Reading co-dependant no more. I do not stand up for myself (I've never been a confrontational person) and I have let him subtly bully me to an extent. I have allowed him to get away with his selfishness.
Perhaps at some point we will need marriage counseling? But then I'd probably have to wait until he has worked through all of the steps? When I try to communicate my feelings, I get frustrated with myself and he gets frustrated or exasperated with me. I can't get him to understand what I'm feeling. Or is it that in that he doesn't want to hear what I am saying? He's a master at arguing and it feels to me that he twists my words to benefit himself. I'm sure my difficulties come from years of dealing with the alcoholism.
Thank you, hopeful4. I am a rule follower. I've been working on detaching and in doing so I've been hiding my feelings from him as he works through the steps. I'm not clear on the "rules of engagement". It's good to know that it's okay to bring this up to him. I'll give your suggestion of hand holding a try.
Another question, since he has acknowledged this character flaw of arrogance, if I hear him make dismissive comments, I can bring it to his attention, right? And there are other areas of himself that I'd like him to work on too, but I'm trying to detach and I'm not sure of my role.
Sorry I am all over the place. I truly appreciate your input.
PP
True, he is early in the process. His sponsor told him from the beginning that they will be working slowly and thoroughly on each step. My AH has told me that he has been working on step 4. Beyond that, I know nothing. I've felt like I'm in a holding pattern waiting and afraid of what amends I might hear.
Atalose, I do think he was insecure when we first met, that might have developed/progressed to arrogance with the education/profession. I know that 20+ years of this behavior is not going to be resolved in a few months.
I am becoming more self aware. Reading co-dependant no more. I do not stand up for myself (I've never been a confrontational person) and I have let him subtly bully me to an extent. I have allowed him to get away with his selfishness.
Perhaps at some point we will need marriage counseling? But then I'd probably have to wait until he has worked through all of the steps? When I try to communicate my feelings, I get frustrated with myself and he gets frustrated or exasperated with me. I can't get him to understand what I'm feeling. Or is it that in that he doesn't want to hear what I am saying? He's a master at arguing and it feels to me that he twists my words to benefit himself. I'm sure my difficulties come from years of dealing with the alcoholism.
Thank you, hopeful4. I am a rule follower. I've been working on detaching and in doing so I've been hiding my feelings from him as he works through the steps. I'm not clear on the "rules of engagement". It's good to know that it's okay to bring this up to him. I'll give your suggestion of hand holding a try.
Another question, since he has acknowledged this character flaw of arrogance, if I hear him make dismissive comments, I can bring it to his attention, right? And there are other areas of himself that I'd like him to work on too, but I'm trying to detach and I'm not sure of my role.
Sorry I am all over the place. I truly appreciate your input.
PP
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