Adult Alkie/addict Child Drinking With Alkie Parent
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Adult Alkie/addict Child Drinking With Alkie Parent
Bad enough having family with alcohol issues but also know a family where an adult alkie/addict drinks with an alkie parent. They have sent to child to rehab, had to flag them in their house on several occassions and know the child has had legal and job issues. The parent although not 'officially' a diagnosed alkie will be drinking by mid afternoon and have encountered them with alcohol breath by mid day on more than one occasion. Are they just co dependent or is one enabling the other. They are both getting really cranky, short tempered and 'secretive' shall I say. in their aging bodies. That being said they are they are the type of people that have helped us out and invited us to many a meal, gathering , event, party etc without question.
If a child has a known problem isn't drinking with them enabling. I know adult children can make their own decisions but shouldn't a parent be doing more as to not encourage an alkie let alone a family member not to drink?
If a child has a known problem isn't drinking with them enabling. I know adult children can make their own decisions but shouldn't a parent be doing more as to not encourage an alkie let alone a family member not to drink?
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They are both getting really cranky, short tempered and 'secretive' shall I say. in their aging bodies. That being said they are they are the type of people that have helped us out and invited us to many a meal, gathering , event, party etc without question.
If it's the former, I agree w/Lexie--not your side of the street, not your concern in any way.
If it's the latter, then perhaps it's time to kind of let the relationship fade away. Politely decline invitations. If they initiate a conversation, keep it very brief--that sort of thing. It's sad to lose friends b/c of their drinking, but their lives are their own to live. If it's becoming toxic to you, then I think all you can do is remove yourself from the situation.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat 
How, exactly, is this your concern?
The reason this really stuck out I paid a visit during a week day where both had drinks in hand in the afternoon. The adult child had/has a night job so that could mean they are drinking in their morning so to speak. The parent in the past has gotten miffed when you turned down a mid day drink, they seem to forget next time you see them but there seemed to be more anger and resentment this time.
I think the recommended limited brief contact for now is best.
Thanks
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Originally Posted by thequest
they are they are the type of people that have helped us out and invited us to many a meal, gathering , event, party etc without question.
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And maybe it's just me (though I'm not known for being overly sensitive), but I find the term "alkie" fairly offensive, particularly when used by someone who isn't an alcoholic. People who are alcoholics sometimes use that term in referring to themselves, which is their privilege, but when it's used by others it comes off as a disrespectful way to refer to people suffering from a serious, potentially fatal, illness.
If you want to trash the things alcoholics DO, that's one thing, but let's be respectful of who they ARE.
If you want to trash the things alcoholics DO, that's one thing, but let's be respectful of who they ARE.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
And maybe it's just me (though I'm not known for being overly sensitive), but I find the term "alkie" fairly offensive, particularly when used by someone who isn't an alcoholic. People who are alcoholics sometimes use that term in referring to themselves, which is their privilege, but when it's used by others it comes off as a disrespectful way to refer to people suffering from a serious, potentially fatal, illness.
If you want to trash the things alcoholics DO, that's one thing, but let's be respectful of who they ARE.
If you want to trash the things alcoholics DO, that's one thing, but let's be respectful of who they ARE.
Alkie is just an abbreviation for alcoholic in my mind,
Its much more respectful I think to discuss each person according to who they are in our lives. Husband, brother, son, boyfriend, etc. The commonality is the substance use disorder from which they suffer. Sometimes alcohol, alcoholism, substance abuse, addiction, etc.
The actions and behaviors which are so common among these groups are really symptoms.
I also think its unhealthy for family members to begin to see their "person" as an illness. I think it can have a psychological effect because it promotes the idea the person is "different" when again no, they are just sick from the substance abuse and its symptoms.
I had a long discussion about this topic in therapy, long story.
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Are you an alcoholic? Are you in a position to determine what someone with that condition finds disrespectful? It's sort of similar to the way people with spastic cerebral palsy used to be called "spazz". Yes, you could say it's an "abbreviation." Nevertheless a disrespectful one.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
Are you an alcoholic? Are you in a position to determine what someone with that condition finds disrespectful? It's sort of similar to the way people with spastic cerebral palsy used to be called "spazz". Yes, you could say it's an "abbreviation." Nevertheless a disrespectful one.
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oh i think alcoholics can speak about other alcoholics? and that it is perfectly fine on a recovery forum to have the opinion that the alkie term can be deemed offensive and a polite request to CONSIDER that is completely appropriate.
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There is a long history of disenfranchised people taking a derogatory term and using it in a self-deprecating manner so it loses its power to degrade and humiliate. "Dyke" is a perfect example. If I was talking to my lesbian friends, we might drop the term occasionally in conversation. Within our group, we'd know that the word is meant to tease in a loving fashion.
But I would never EVER use that term with somebody I didn't know. That person would have no idea if my use of that word was intended to be derogatory, or if it was meant to be used in a teasing, self-deprecating fashion. Is it worth the trouble? No. Is avoiding that word the polite thing to do? YES.
It gets a little tricky when the only time you've heard the word in a loving, teasing, tone. I used to be called a "spazz" all the time in HS and until I read your post Lexie I had no clue that it was a reference to people with spastic cerebral palsy. I actually liked the term because it so contradicted my usual self: the uptight, anxious overachiever. My friends had no clue that it had that reference and if they had known they would have never used that word. I suspect that if you polled them they would just think it was just "eighties speak."
So in summary:
1) Sometimes a derogatory term gets "flipped" in the effort to remove its power to degrade and humiliate.
2) As a result, later generations have no idea of its original intentions, and use that word with no intended malice.
3) BUT if you're uncertain on how a word will be interpreted, it's best to avoid it. There are over 200K words in the Oxford English dictionary, so it should be easy to find a word that describes a subgroup of people without insulting them.
Back to the regular program now?
But I would never EVER use that term with somebody I didn't know. That person would have no idea if my use of that word was intended to be derogatory, or if it was meant to be used in a teasing, self-deprecating fashion. Is it worth the trouble? No. Is avoiding that word the polite thing to do? YES.
It gets a little tricky when the only time you've heard the word in a loving, teasing, tone. I used to be called a "spazz" all the time in HS and until I read your post Lexie I had no clue that it was a reference to people with spastic cerebral palsy. I actually liked the term because it so contradicted my usual self: the uptight, anxious overachiever. My friends had no clue that it had that reference and if they had known they would have never used that word. I suspect that if you polled them they would just think it was just "eighties speak."
So in summary:
1) Sometimes a derogatory term gets "flipped" in the effort to remove its power to degrade and humiliate.
2) As a result, later generations have no idea of its original intentions, and use that word with no intended malice.
3) BUT if you're uncertain on how a word will be interpreted, it's best to avoid it. There are over 200K words in the Oxford English dictionary, so it should be easy to find a word that describes a subgroup of people without insulting them.
Back to the regular program now?
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Originally Posted by PuzzledHeart
There is a long history of disenfranchised people taking a derogatory term and using it in a self-deprecating manner so it loses its power to degrade and humiliate. "Dyke" is a perfect example. If I was talking to my lesbian friends, we might drop the term occasionally in conversation. Within our group, we'd know that the word is meant to tease in a loving fashion.
But I would never EVER use that term with somebody I didn't know. That person would have no idea if my use of that word was intended to be derogatory, or if it was meant to be used in a teasing, self-deprecating fashion. Is it worth the trouble? No. Is avoiding that word the polite thing to do? YES.
It gets a little tricky when the only time you've heard the word in a loving, teasing, tone. I used to be called a "spazz" all the time in HS and until I read your post Lexie I had no clue that it was a reference to people with spastic cerebral palsy. I actually liked the term because it so contradicted my usual self: the uptight, anxious overachiever. My friends had no clue that it had that reference and if they had known they would have never used that word. I suspect that if you polled them they would just think it was just "eighties speak."
So in summary:
1) Sometimes a derogatory term gets "flipped" in the effort to remove its power to degrade and humiliate.
2) As a result, later generations have no idea of its original intentions, and use that word with no intended malice.
3) BUT if you're uncertain on how a word will be interpreted, it's best to avoid it. There are over 200K words in the Oxford English dictionary, so it should be easy to find a word that describes a subgroup of people without insulting them.
Back to the regular program now?
But I would never EVER use that term with somebody I didn't know. That person would have no idea if my use of that word was intended to be derogatory, or if it was meant to be used in a teasing, self-deprecating fashion. Is it worth the trouble? No. Is avoiding that word the polite thing to do? YES.
It gets a little tricky when the only time you've heard the word in a loving, teasing, tone. I used to be called a "spazz" all the time in HS and until I read your post Lexie I had no clue that it was a reference to people with spastic cerebral palsy. I actually liked the term because it so contradicted my usual self: the uptight, anxious overachiever. My friends had no clue that it had that reference and if they had known they would have never used that word. I suspect that if you polled them they would just think it was just "eighties speak."
So in summary:
1) Sometimes a derogatory term gets "flipped" in the effort to remove its power to degrade and humiliate.
2) As a result, later generations have no idea of its original intentions, and use that word with no intended malice.
3) BUT if you're uncertain on how a word will be interpreted, it's best to avoid it. There are over 200K words in the Oxford English dictionary, so it should be easy to find a word that describes a subgroup of people without insulting them.
Back to the regular program now?
Alcohol - alcoholism - alcoholic - alkie could be equated.
I hope all labels are done away with including " alcoholic" because again as I said before the medical profession is suggesting changes in these concepts. Like alcoholism is becoming associated with alcohol abuse disorder because there is such stigma about alcoholism, and being labeled an alcoholic. And most people dont even meet these classifications in terms of medical standards.. there is all kinds of abuse with substances however.
I mean its fine if people who have the illness, like to use the label "alcoholic" or "anything else that floats their boat" when they are describing their own self.. and bonus if it helps them with their own recovery, but I dont see why on the family forum there is so much use of the terms because we are here because of our "person".
And what is affecting us is usually the behavioral symptoms of the illness. Its pretty easy to explain... I think family would cope better if this point was emphasized instead of all the talk of the "alcoholic" like they are a separate species of human and we as family cant understand them.
Now back to my yogurt and fruit snack.. and the regular programming.
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I hope all labels are done away with including " alcoholic"
Its much more respectful I think to discuss each person according to who they are in our lives. Husband, brother, son, boyfriend, etc
aren't those LABELS too?
oopsie, how did THAT get there??
Its much more respectful I think to discuss each person according to who they are in our lives. Husband, brother, son, boyfriend, etc
aren't those LABELS too?
oopsie, how did THAT get there??
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Well, cancer patients are labeled Cancer Patients, diabetics are labeled as such. I understand what you are saying about the stigma, and I think alkie is disrespectful. However, I think not calling an alcoholic an alcoholic is part of denial. Families tend to live in denial for long periods of time, sometimes forever, so is it doing them any favors by not calling the alcoholic an alcoholic??
Just my two cents......
Just my two cents......
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Originally Posted by hopeful4
However, I think not calling an alcoholic an alcoholic is part of denial. Families tend to live in denial for long periods of time, sometimes forever, so is it doing them any favors by not calling the alcoholic an alcoholic??
It really, really messed me up for years.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
I hope all labels are done away with including " alcoholic"
Its much more respectful I think to discuss each person according to who they are in our lives. Husband, brother, son, boyfriend, etc
aren't those LABELS too? oopsie, how did THAT get there??
Its much more respectful I think to discuss each person according to who they are in our lives. Husband, brother, son, boyfriend, etc
aren't those LABELS too?
oopsie, how did THAT get there??If a "person" wants to SELF identify using this characteristics that is fine also. Same with references to their addiction issues if they choose to identify with a label and it helps them great.
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There is a medical definition of alcoholism just like diabetes or cancer:
The definition of alcoholism is chronic alcohol use to the degree that it interferes with physical or mental health, or with normal social or work behavior. Alcoholism is a disease that produces both physical and psychological addiction.
So not sure how this is labeling. You either fit this, or you don't. If you do, you are an alcoholic. If you don't, you are not. Many and most times, the actual "person" with this disease is the last one to admit it, so not sure how it's helpful to brush it under the rug and pretend.
Stepping away from this thread as I believe it may trigger me. It took me a LONG time to realize my Ex-Husband was an alcoholic, and he minimized that for YEARS. I cannot even explain the trauma my children and I went through, and the trauma they still experience from their alcoholic father. I was made to feel crazy because I could see clear as day he was an alcoholic, while he acted like I was nuts to even suggest such an issue.
There are more people involved than the alcoholic.
Signed,
The healing codependent
The definition of alcoholism is chronic alcohol use to the degree that it interferes with physical or mental health, or with normal social or work behavior. Alcoholism is a disease that produces both physical and psychological addiction.
So not sure how this is labeling. You either fit this, or you don't. If you do, you are an alcoholic. If you don't, you are not. Many and most times, the actual "person" with this disease is the last one to admit it, so not sure how it's helpful to brush it under the rug and pretend.
Stepping away from this thread as I believe it may trigger me. It took me a LONG time to realize my Ex-Husband was an alcoholic, and he minimized that for YEARS. I cannot even explain the trauma my children and I went through, and the trauma they still experience from their alcoholic father. I was made to feel crazy because I could see clear as day he was an alcoholic, while he acted like I was nuts to even suggest such an issue.
There are more people involved than the alcoholic.
Signed,
The healing codependent
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so not sure how it's helpful to brush it under the rug and pretend.
in my family growing up it was VERBOTEN to speak of many things, to dare to say the words aloud. we went so far as to throw a fancy linen over the elephant and call it an end table!!!
in my family growing up it was VERBOTEN to speak of many things, to dare to say the words aloud. we went so far as to throw a fancy linen over the elephant and call it an end table!!!
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
so not sure how it's helpful to brush it under the rug and pretend.
in my family growing up it was VERBOTEN to speak of many things, to dare to say the words aloud. we went so far as to throw a fancy linen over the elephant and call it an end table!!!
in my family growing up it was VERBOTEN to speak of many things, to dare to say the words aloud. we went so far as to throw a fancy linen over the elephant and call it an end table!!!
My father was a self-admitted alcoholic who achieved sobriety ONLY because he was incarcerated in federal PRISON for a year for distribution of cocaine. (and that wasn't even close to his first run-in with the law)
He started drinking at age 9. He drank every single day in quantities I can't even guess at, but that raised even MY young eyebrows at the time.
He went so far as to quit his job to buy a business which would afford him time & money to drink/drug/distribute freely.
He never stopped "functioning", right up until the moment he was locked up. And then he lived a life committed to living amends for 5 years before his sudden death. His sobriety became a huge thing for him that he was extremely open & honest about.
But she still refuses to ever use the words alcoholic, addict or recovery.... 24 YEARS later. ....
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That is SO COOL, FS! Your dad's recovery, lol, not your mom's denial. I just got this month's Grapevine (AA magazine), and it's their annual "AA in Prison" edition. I know quite a few people who got sober on the inside and stayed that way. One guy was actually on death row, for literally cutting off someone's head (it actually wasn't as sicko as it sounds--there was a reason it happened that way). He was always entertaining to listen to--he started going to meetings inside for the donuts. He kept coming back for the women who would sometimes show up as speakers (got to see legs, lol). But he stayed sober and eventually got paroled, and then remained sober. He's very active in his home group and does service work. He's been sober a VERY long time on the outside.
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