Physically going to Alanon
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
This is devolving into absurdity.
I know people who have recovered, and recovered well, without AA. I also know people who tried everything on earth to get sober and didn't succeed until they worked the program exactly as described in the Big Book. I think of AA as the "big guns," like aggressive cancer treatment for aggressive cancers. As with aggressive cancer treatments, not everyone will recover or even respond to treatment.
When you talk about whether the program--AA or Al-Anon--fits with one's personal philosophy of recovery, it's sort of like choosing whether to grab a life preserver by deciding whether it will clash with your swimsuit. Everyone is free to try whatever they want. Or keep drinking or keep suffering. If one thing doesn't work, try something else. And keep an open mind. You don't have to understand oncology to benefit from chemo.
I know people who have recovered, and recovered well, without AA. I also know people who tried everything on earth to get sober and didn't succeed until they worked the program exactly as described in the Big Book. I think of AA as the "big guns," like aggressive cancer treatment for aggressive cancers. As with aggressive cancer treatments, not everyone will recover or even respond to treatment.
When you talk about whether the program--AA or Al-Anon--fits with one's personal philosophy of recovery, it's sort of like choosing whether to grab a life preserver by deciding whether it will clash with your swimsuit. Everyone is free to try whatever they want. Or keep drinking or keep suffering. If one thing doesn't work, try something else. And keep an open mind. You don't have to understand oncology to benefit from chemo.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
I have seen these debates, many, many times, before. And, I have never seen any black and white, unanimous agreement.....
Discussions about theories, etc, are interesting and can be beneficial......
But, in this kind of setting, that is usually not the outcome....
Everyone here is looking for help and support and to give support where they can.....
Taking discussions to the sword really puts a damper on that........
Discussions about theories, etc, are interesting and can be beneficial......
But, in this kind of setting, that is usually not the outcome....
Everyone here is looking for help and support and to give support where they can.....
Taking discussions to the sword really puts a damper on that........
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
I've seen this before with other people new to the forum...
...normally, and it's clear from the tone of the posts they think they are smarter than the program and smarter than us. They think they can reason the problem away, despite all of the evidence in their own lives that they can't. Shooting down Alanon and AA feels good because it justifies the decision to not go, to not "do the program," to not letting go but, rather, to be dragged. God forbid it works! Then what would she be forced to acknowledge? It feels so much better just to rage at the drinker, the programs that have all failed him, the AMA, Science, Doctors, etc.
It's a way she's dealing with her helplessness and pain-- she'll keep doing it until the pain exceeds her hubris, then she may give in to a program of some kind. Despite the fact that I don't know if their is a God and I absolutely rebuke organized religion in all of it's forms, and the fact that I don't believe anything that can't be proven, Alanon worked for me. I can't explain how, other than I submitted myself to it, but it worked. It worked. It worked.
It may be that she thinks she's unique, that her drinker is too. I'll not engage with her, but I will send her my love and support as it's clear to me that she's in as much pain, if not more, than I was in too. Right now she can't listen with an open mind-- she can just argue and try to cloak it in logic and reason.
Cyranoak
It's a way she's dealing with her helplessness and pain-- she'll keep doing it until the pain exceeds her hubris, then she may give in to a program of some kind. Despite the fact that I don't know if their is a God and I absolutely rebuke organized religion in all of it's forms, and the fact that I don't believe anything that can't be proven, Alanon worked for me. I can't explain how, other than I submitted myself to it, but it worked. It worked. It worked.
It may be that she thinks she's unique, that her drinker is too. I'll not engage with her, but I will send her my love and support as it's clear to me that she's in as much pain, if not more, than I was in too. Right now she can't listen with an open mind-- she can just argue and try to cloak it in logic and reason.
Cyranoak
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
If a program continues to fail an overwhelming amount of people, do we look at the program or assume millions of people are not willing to follow it?
you've been to alanon, yes? sat in a few meetings. but it's quite fair to say you are far from CURED, or on the success spectrum.
so where lies the "failure"?
AA How it Works clearly states:
Rarely have we seen a person fail that has THOROUGHLY followed our path. Those who do not recover are those who cannot or WILL not give themselves to this simple PROGRAM, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.
none of the 12 step programs tout any type of recovery rate. as an anonymous program with no membership lists or attendance rosters it would be IMPOSSIBLE to gauge.
i'm not sure why this thread has turned so negative, when you Smarmie started it by asking about ATTENDING Alanon and engaging in the program - and yet continue to turn this in to a discussion about your A and HIS condition.
you've been to alanon, yes? sat in a few meetings. but it's quite fair to say you are far from CURED, or on the success spectrum.
so where lies the "failure"?
AA How it Works clearly states:
Rarely have we seen a person fail that has THOROUGHLY followed our path. Those who do not recover are those who cannot or WILL not give themselves to this simple PROGRAM, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves.
none of the 12 step programs tout any type of recovery rate. as an anonymous program with no membership lists or attendance rosters it would be IMPOSSIBLE to gauge.
i'm not sure why this thread has turned so negative, when you Smarmie started it by asking about ATTENDING Alanon and engaging in the program - and yet continue to turn this in to a discussion about your A and HIS condition.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Anywhere, USA
Posts: 869
Cyra - who is arguing and raging here? You sound as though I attacked you or others when that clearly did not occur. This is an open forum where debate was had and at no time did I disrespect anyone or anything here. If any shred of questioning on theory is too painful for you to acknowledge, it is not because I am "helpless" and "angry" or God forbid...using logic and reason . I think it may be helpful for you to perhaps examine why you feel so attacked. If you read back through the thread I would ask you please give me an example of attacking or rage or hostility. It was pointed out to me that I must have only been to two meetings and didn't read anything simply bc I could not work with parts of the program that I did not believe in (I've been to several meetings well beyond two since this crisis occurred) It was also noted to me that I was somehow doing something wrong by talking about the addict on my own thread. That I was a problem. I'm not sure if it's the psycho-analyzing that is enjoyable but I do wish you the best and too send you my love and support.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Just thinking about the concept of "success rates" - is a program (of any kind) a "success" only to the extent that addicts stop drinking permanently and never go back? Or is it a "success" if addicts get a few more "clean" months or years than they might otherwise have (get sober, relapse, get sober again, rather than just drinking all the way through)? I guess I'm thinking about "success" in terms of harm reduction, rather than ending the disease once and for all. (I have some background in public health, where we talk about quality-of-life measures. A medical intervention may be considered valuable if it increases the amount of time with good quality of life, even if it has no impact on mortality).
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
For those interested in a discussion about another approach, you may find what you like here.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-families.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-families.html
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Ok people, since you can't keep the thread to your own personal experience and have started to attack each other I will close the thread.
Go talk to your sponsor, or your therapist, cuz you are not doing anybody any good on this thread,
Mike
Moderator, SR
Go talk to your sponsor, or your therapist, cuz you are not doing anybody any good on this thread,
Mike
Moderator, SR
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