What caused your codependency?

Old 06-10-2017, 05:49 AM
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I in many ways had an idyllic childhood.

I was well tended when it came to many physical needs, and well taught with many educational items.

Neither of my parents lived with addiction to a substance. My mother is a workaholic however.

I KNOW my mother grew up in an alcoholic household. As I have learned more about addiction I believe my father did also.

There is a lot of untreated co-dependent behaviors in my family of origin, and my extended families. I have come to believe that what has come easily to me (school, managing finances, work ethic, etc) was what I was taught and my family could touch in on.

What I did not see and thus did not learn was anything to do with emotions. To feel that void and not sit with my own stuff I started looking for things outside myself to meet the needs. In my family it was a lack of emotions and truthfully a strong dose of culture/religious stuff that helped create me.

I come by my co-dependent behaviors honestly.

I also don't believe I am co-dependent. To me it is like saying a patient in healthcare is cancer/diabetes/heart disease. They are a patient, living with a disease and that is how I see my co-dependency. I have struggled with co-dependency, I at times still express co-dependent behaviors, but I am a human being, not a human doing, and don't want to pin myself into a definition of myself with a dis-ease.

I am 7+ years out from the ending of my relationship that got me here.

I TRULY believe my relationship that got me here was in my life so I could heal from what was not provided to me in my childhood.

I also believe that this healing is part of what our journey here is for. I brought someone into my life living with an addiction so I could heal, and hopefully not have to learn those lessons again.
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:12 AM
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"Codependence is all about external validation. It's taking our cues from others about how we should be feeling or are allowed to feel or "made" to feel."

This ^^^^^ Right on Angelina!!!
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:23 AM
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Thanks for this VERY helpful post. Codependency is one of my chief addictions.

I came from a family where both parents were emotionally absent. My dad was emotionally present only when he was angry and wanted to hit us with a belt. He was a sex addict and possibly an alcoholic.
My mother wore different masks, depending on who was in the room. I had different names for some of them. "Debbie" was smiling and agreeable, and was the persona for her in-laws. "Lee Ping" seemed Chinese. I saw her around my maternal Grandmother. Lee Ping was authoritarian and full of advice. She needed to show the world that she was in control. Usually, my mother's angry real self would show through when there was no audience to play to.

Even though I paint a harsh picture of my home life, I believe my parents did the best they could. They were basically good people who were taught poor parenting skills by their families of origin. They both evolved later in life. When they died, I was still pretty sick in my own addictions.

My recovery now has mandated that I am "no contact" with my current family of origin and its culture. If individual members wanted to recover and leave that culture, I would be pleased to be supportive of them.
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Old 06-10-2017, 10:40 AM
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My childhood was with a dry drunk, abusive controlling father and a controlling but, at the same time, completely spineless mother. My father beat me and shook me to the point I got brain damage. Anything set off his evil temper from leaving our bikes on the path to not having tea on the table at the appointed hour. My mother did nothing and justified his actions by saying I was a bad child who deserved it. My father idolised my mother and she could have saved me but she never.

My grandmother tried to get custody of me but lost due to her age. I quickly learnt:-

Have no opinions even if they agreed with his cos he never listened and would fly off the handle anyway.

Do as much as possible to appease them ...housework, shopping, cooking childcare. etc My mother was lazy and hated cleaning. She'd sit all day in her dressing gown on the sofa.

Keep out of his way when he got in from work. I still remember the sinking dread as I heard his voice as he came in. The first thing he did every night was rattle the kitchen drawer and ask my mother who needed hitting with the wooden spoon tonight ( it was always me. I was the eldest and not a boy they had wanted). Sometime he hit me with his belt and often a leather soled slipper. He once hit me around the legs with a wet hose pipe.

I got out at aged 17. I picked men like him. Either abusive control freaks or ones who just wanted a good time with no commitment. I've always been the carer and provider and I never had a man who actually had a job.

Am 56 and only recently met a man who treated me with care and respect.

Am crying as I write this. Makes me wonder if the pain ever heals or we just get used to it.
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Old 06-10-2017, 03:44 PM
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I come from the classic alcoholic family. Drunk and abusive father, emotionally absent mother, dysfunction in all the adults.

One of my earliest memories as a child is hiding under the bed, listening to my father beat up my mother. I don't know why, but at that moment I swore that I would not grow up to be like my father. I would be a good man, not a monster.

Unfortunately I did not have a role model to show me what a "good man" is like, so I made it up on the way. The result was an over-responsible, super-dependable, work-aholic that had no concept of "balance" in my personal life.

Somewhere in my late teens I started to come across adults who were decent, righteous people. They could have become role models of sorts, but at that point I allowed my own arrogance and fear of failure to reject those good people.

That was entirely my own fault and had nothing to do with my dysfunctional family of origin. My parents were the cause of my emotional issues, but I was the one who chose to maintain them once I became an adult and left the household.

Eventually those issues became painful enough that I landed in therapy, and then ACA, and then Al-Anon. I'm much better now, but am still working on that "self-care" thing.

Mike
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Old 06-10-2017, 05:30 PM
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My mother struggled with mental illness. My father dealt with the stresses by drinking. Both were unavailable and both grew up with alcoholic parents.
I was taught to be perfect. To have that perfect image. That family meant everything.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:36 AM
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This list of causes is from "Psychology Today," and holy moly, every single one of these was true in my family!

General rules set-up within families that may cause codependency may include:

• Don't talk about your problems or how you feel

• Feelings should not be expressed

• Be strong and "suck up" your problems

• Work hard, be good, seek perfection

• Strive to meet unrealistic expectations

• Do as I say not as I do

I was an only child with two happily married parents, neither one an alcoholic or codependent. My mom was a big fan of the silent treatment when she was upset, and my dad would tell me whenever I cried, "Stop crying! There's nothing to cry about." I was expected to get straight-A report cards and be the absolute best at everything I pursued: music, sports, academics, etc. In other words, I got the message at a young age that I would be loved if I was perfect. I know this has always led to my need for external validation and, obviously, my codependency.
YES - this exactly.

firebolt----I am curious---what does you r book, "Conquering Co-dependency and Shame", say about "happy and n ormal" childhoods and the link to co-dependency.....?
Dandylion, well - it was a real eye opener for me.

I guess the first and biggest thing was - no matter how great parents are, they are going to eff a kid up

From there...no one is perfect, and children are very VERY sensitive to parents slightest issues, the tiniest things they say, and their environment outside the home. Second, from a very young age we normalize things that aren't healthy.

To use myself as an example:

So what I always did (and still do) call a great childhood, included some physical abuse and extreme control from my mom (less than her parents rendered on her), a very passive father, and grand parents, aunts and uncles that did not discuss anything bad. Nothing. previous marriages were swept under the rug - I did not know my mom was married before my dad until i was 19. 5 years later I found out that he was physically abusive and homosexual. I knew my favorite uncle "was killed." Upon finding a microfiche of an old newspaper at the library, I found out he murdered his mother in law and then killed himself. Our family dog was hit by a car. Years later I found out my mom ran him over on accident. Also found out we almost lost our house several times because of a gambling addiction no one knew she had, we just always thought she was out "running errands." If we were angry or sad as kids, we had to go to our rooms until we came out happy. Small things we did wrong were atrocities, and we were shamed...in order to be better. Things like that.

That all being said - we played every sport we wanted to play, had very loving grandparents and an aunt, we were exposed to hobbies, adventures and music that made us very well rounded. We were constantly told we were loved, that we were brilliant, and that we could do anything or be anything we wanted to be. Both parents were very busy, but we always had a huge cheering section of them and the rest of the family at EVERY sport or band event. We were played with, hugged, and and were treated like we walked on water, often. we were coddled to some extent.

So - the control and abuse elements taught us that we cannot trust ourselves, we cannot make decisions, and that if we make a decision, it's probably wrong. It taught us to be fearful of the outside world, be fearful of death, and the decisions that lead to death. It gave me in particular a perfection complex. The passive elements taught us people pleasing - that everyone else's happiness is above ours, and that everything we do needs to be for the greater good of the family, and never for ourselves.

Like any childhood - good or bad or somewhere in the middle....we take what we've learned and mesh who we are with it as we grow into adulthood. And codies, well, we default to mostly guilt and shame. We didn't grow out of that part on our own - we failed to nurture the kid inside us where our parents (very unintentionally) failed it. Healthy people do.

The book has worksheets in it with questions that helped me see where my inner child wasn't nurtured as it should be. And more worksheets to help us go back and do it now, as adults.

Up until 4 years ago I would have said I had the perfect childhood - I couldn't see any of these things - we were taught that "things are great" is the only answer you ever give, and I believed it!

Today, I will still say my childhood was great, it was! We were blessed and loved. But today, I can also say $h!t happened at times. It was difficult at times. I learned unhealthy coping mechanisms and it took me a long time to see any of it. All the love I felt around me, in a sense taught me that that is what makes life great, and therefore I only need to focus on others loving me, without the smallest hint, that I should love myself.

The book made me scared to talk to my niece and nephew lol. Like I say, no matter how great of a parent you are, no matter how perfect their environment, the littlest comment, sideways look, or slightest action will mess up your kid. The only thing that can counter that is teaching them to love and trust themselves.

Inner child work is complicated, but I feel that exposing those roots it about the most direct route to mending them.
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:41 AM
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Old 06-12-2017, 08:44 AM
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I love this thread - the topic of "where does this crap come from?" has come up several times, and it is always so valuable to me! THank you all for sharing your thoughts here!
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Old 06-12-2017, 09:58 AM
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Wow firebolt - that is some history that you learned. My therapist tries very hard to understand the roots I came from since they are relatively happy and normal. I do think some belongs to nature though along with nurture because I look at my siblings and none of them are codependent (my mother absolutely is though).

I can't wait to read the book! I do wonder though as I haven't heard much about the childhood environment outside of the family. Is it possible that childhood bullying can create a codependent adult with other issues, or do you believe it is truly rooted in family? or both maybe? I just wonder how influential outside factors of the family are in children growing up.
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:13 AM
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I think both absolutely - especially as adolescents, we consider our friends on a pedestal over family, and our appearances are SO important to us then (and for me, that carried through adulthood) especially with the same message coming through at home.

Bullying especially - no one wants to be a target, and we learn early on not to rock the boat and to pacify anything other than praise that is directed at us, rather than to stand up for whats right. That turns to walking on eggshells for everyone elses peace pretty easily!
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Rayn3dr0p View Post
This list of causes is from "Psychology Today," and holy moly, every single one of these was true in my family!

General rules set-up within families that may cause codependency may include:

• Don't talk about your problems or how you feel

• Feelings should not be expressed

• Be strong and "suck up" your problems

• Work hard, be good, seek perfection

• Strive to meet unrealistic expectations

• Do as I say not as I do
Thank you for posting this. When I read the list, it actually matches my husbands childhood. So I went to Psych today and did some reading.

In part, because I was interested in the connection between this type of childhood dysfunction and its relation to addiction.

In part because Ive had comments that my husbands issues are somehow related to him having a feeling of "entitlement" which I havent seen.

And in part I went there to read because I dont accept the idea that just because my spouse has an addiction, and I have been concerned and wanted him to get help - that Im automatically Codependent.

One of the articles supported what my therapist said - any normal person would suffer anxiety, be concerned, want their spouse to seek treatment.

Codependency is about getting an internal emotional validation of one's own self worth in a dysfunctional way through other people ...it's deeply rooted -often beginning in childhood.

I enjoyed both of the following articles.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...d-what-it-isnt

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...big-difference
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Old 06-12-2017, 10:50 AM
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Okay I'm definitely getting the book now. Such interesting things that have been pointed out I never knew of. My "perfect family" also reminds me of the time I fell apart in high school with severe anxiety and agoraphobia and came back from a trip practically a different person - riddled with fear and a darkness I didn't know existed. My mother would tell me "snap out of it!"....not in a mean way but in a way that she would say things like "oh you know I use to get panicky too and I would say just snap out of it! go for a walk instead"...she never asked me much about what was behind it. They (her and dad) took me to a doctor and I always remember the doctor asking me in front of them if I ever would try and hurt myself and I will never forget my parent's face like "OUR DAUGHTER?! No. She is NOT like that!"...they were right in a sense, I wasn't ever suicidal....but it was so hush hush in our household to talk about anything that wasn't happy and perfect. my father didn't believe in psychology.

Even more recently....my brother sat me down and said "why don't you have any eyelashes?" (I suffer from trichotillomania - ie.hair pulling). I have had this for over 15 years. He explained to me how he didn't understand it and why can't I control it, and that I have no reason to blame it on a disorder, that I was capable of stopping and that I just didn't want to ...that I was weak. So I guess now thinking more and more about it, despite having this happy perfect family, n matter how great you think you raise your kids, we are so impressionable at a young age we learn quickly what is ok and what isn't. While my siblings don't have the issues I do, some of it is nature. I was more sensitive my nature so while these things may have rolled off their backs, I inhaled it likely and took it to heart.

To this day my father will call me or ask me how work is (well, when I was employed and not searching like I am now!) and he will say "are you a VP? Are you an executive yet??" Some of it is his cultural heritage peeking through, but it does sometimes make me feel not enough. Like I so badly want to be this big shot for him. Regardless, he never makes me feel bad about my place and he is always super proud and thinks a LOT more of me than I do!. In my mind sometimes I'm like "little does he know I am not as smart as he thinks!".

Anyway...good and interesting stuff. Codependency truly is that dysfunctional search for "worth" and for me, a ton of approval. Mine extends far behind my relationship with Abf. I saw so much of it this past weekend in my other engagements with people, mostly family. I have 5 members in my family not including myself, and then Abf. I remember walking out of my apartment yesterday after cleaning it so my brother can stay while I was away a couple days this week since his power was shut off (bc he mismanages money and ALWAYS has issues and takes from me..but I feed into it bc I "feel bad" for him...)...and in the meantime my other brother calling asking why I wasn't at the house yet where they were waiting for me to spend the day outside and I was taking too long tending to my own things. And I thought to myself...."wow, I take care of 6 people in my life....then I take care of myself."...a rotten thought process for sure. And a rotten way to live. I'm starting a real recovery plan today. I realize all I do is analyze and think about why I am who I am....nothing will happen until I take actual steps though. Thanks for all the insight on this thread!!
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:23 PM
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Firebolt.....Thank you for your excellent and illuminating review of the book "Conquering Co-dependency and Shame".....specifically, in relationship to the question that I asked----"How does the "happy childhood" relate to co-dependency in adulthood?......
I think your explanation is excellent!

For Smarie----there is a book called "The Nature Assumption", by Judith Rich.....
It hit the psychology world by storm when it was released, a fie years ago....
In fact it made the national news.....on all the news services...lol....
It, specifically, addresses the very question that you ask....about the influences on a developing child OUTSIDE the family....She maintains that it is much more influencial th an has been previously recognized.....
It is a very scholarly study....(it had me pretty spellbound, at the time)....
I think that you will gain a lot of thoughtful information, if you read it....and, it may bring you some comfort....
You can get it on Amazon, and, probably get it pretty cheaply, if you get a used one....

Alicia----I also, recommend the same book for you that I recommended for Smarie....."The Nature Assumption"....It may shed some light, and it will certainly be thought provoking...lol....
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
Firebolt.....Thank you for your excellent and illuminating review of the book "Conquering Co-dependency and Shame".....specifically, in relationship to the question that I asked----"How does the "happy childhood" relate to co-dependency in adulthood?......
I think your explanation is excellent!

For Smarie----there is a book called "The Nature Assumption", by Judith Rich.....
It hit the psychology world by storm when it was released, a fie years ago....
In fact it made the national news.....on all the news services...lol....
It, specifically, addresses the very question that you ask....about the influences on a developing child OUTSIDE the family....She maintains that it is much more influencial th an has been previously recognized.....
It is a very scholarly study....(it had me pretty spellbound, at the time)....
I think that you will gain a lot of thoughtful information, if you read it....and, it may bring you some comfort....
You can get it on Amazon, and, probably get it pretty cheaply, if you get a used one....

Alicia----I also, recommend the same book for you that I recommended for Smarie....."The Nature Assumption"....It may shed some light, and it will certainly be thought provoking...lol....
I think this is it, but entitled "Nurture Assumption"...is that correct? Is there another one called Nature or is this one it? Looks positively fascinating

https://www.amazon.com/Nurture-Assum...ure+Assumption
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:39 PM
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Smarie...You are right!! It IS "Nurture".....(I mis-remembered it).....
(forgive me)......It is called "The Nurture Assumption"......by Judith RIch....
Yes, I found it endlessly fascinating....It is very well researched, from an anthropological, psychological and sociological point of view....
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:40 PM
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CORRE CTION ALERT for everyone....The title of the book is "The Nurture Assumption"...(not "nature")........
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:41 PM
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No worries! just wanted to make sure there wasn't another volume. I even forgot when I went to look it up.."did she say nature or nurture?"...so excited since I am looking for a good book to gobble up!I will order today and let you know when I'm done!
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Old 06-12-2017, 02:55 PM
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Smarie...I would Love to know your opinion of the book, after you have read it....
I read it slowly...because I stopped every few paragraphs to "digest" what I had read......
Like I said...it was considered to be controversial by some members of the social sciences community...but, I think it was right on, for the most part....
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:02 PM
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My parents would have given Ward and June Cleaver a run for the money. Modest home, exemplary parents. It wasn't til I was older, high school and college, that I saw my Dad drunk. He may have been drinking heavily all along, I don't know.

I was kind of a homely kid. I blame that for a lot, but it's a stupid excuse. In my school, a year behind me, was a girl just as skinny, nearsighted and flat-chested, made and wore bravely all the latest fashions Simplicity, Butterick and Vogue had to offer. She managed this even in our little podunk town. Failing cheerleader tryouts, she made a deal with the faculty advisor: Someone had found the head to a mascot costume. She'd make the rest of the critter, if they let her be the mascot. It was clear from her antics as a mascot that large motor skills were not her forte. She didn't intentionally move in a goofy fashion. She also didn't care what others thought. I slunk away defeated from repeated failures and sulked.

It's hard when the popular kids pretend to like you, just to set you up. Or send you notes allegedly penned by the cutest boy in school, inviting you to a party that won't happen.

College was a little better. I dated a little, but not much. By the time I'd shlepped into adulthood, I figured I may spend the rest of my life alone. When I met Late AH, I was thrilled. He was funny. He was brilliant, He thought I was funny and brilliant. I thought his drinking was a bad habit leftover from being alone after his divorce. I was wrong.

After I'd been married for some time, I saw the truth. By that time though, I'd come to rely on his income. The specter of being alone forever still loomed in the back of my head. We, or I would have to give up the house in the 'burbs, the comfortable income, the companionship that did surface when he was sober. And with my pride, I was frankly just embarrassed to admit I'd made a mistake. We had married six months after we met, which was kind of stupid. Maybe my shrink would have reasoned in my co-dependency, I had someone to feel superior to.

He died just a few months shy of our 25th anniversary. In a bizarre way, it spared me (or us) from the embarrassment of explaining why we weren't planning a big party. Actually, the very day I decided to start looking for an apartment of my own, he told me he was terminally ill.

Once bitten, twice shy for me, though. When I began dating the lessons I'd learned steered me in a different direction. The older, more mature me looked at the time I had left, and thought, better alone than legally, morally bound to the wrong person.
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