batchel9

After getting ridiculously drunk on Sunday after not drinking for several months and yelling and blaming me for 2 days....AH came around yesterday and wanted to talk. Pretty much he had all of these major life changes to propose. He feels as though he doesn't get self satisfaction out of his job which makes him want to do other projects and stuff which lead to little sleep which makes me more susceptible to drinking, etc. So his proposal is to quit his good paying job with benefits for a lesser job with no benefits. He has also talked about going back to school to do something that is totally not in line with his current degree at all. He agrees he has problems, and is acknowledging them, but his solution is to make all of these changes. Which may help but they still leave him with untreated alcoholism it seems like.

I sat looking at him dumbfounded. After being a huge a** for two days saying all these hurtful things, he comes to me crying about all of these things in his life that suck and al these changes that he wants to make.

Is this progress? Or chasing happiness and peace that he won't find?

I'm trying to be nice and my demeanor has been "do whatever you feel you need to do", but part of me in my head is honestly like "suck it up princess. Stop making excuses, stop making bad choices, and start doing". I feel very unwilling to have him live off me and support him through another degree where things stand currently.

I mean, how many people really like their jobs anyways???? We do them to pay te bills. His sobriety should not be contingent on stuff like this. Maybe I am off base. Thoughts?

LexieCat

He's going for the employment equivalent of the "geographic cure." I don't necessarily doubt that he really thinks the "proposed changes" will reduce his desire to drink. It's a very typical alcoholic delusion. It's absolutely normal for an alcoholic to try to find some reason to explain their inability to stay sober. It will NOT make a darned bit of difference in his drinking--only in the financial bottom line.

Do YOU work? Do you have benefits? Insurance for you and the kids?

If I were you I'd be thinking about making this a REAL separation. Looks to me like things are gonna keep getting shakier from here. Have you talked to a lawyer?

PuzzledHeart

Well he could do what many other people do: work while pursuing other degree/other job part time.

Has he even considered that? Or is he automatically assuming you're going to fund his career change? That's a little presumptuous, isn't it?

Because of the demands of my field, I require further education. But I'm not quitting my job to do so. I'm doing what everybody does, taking online courses in the evening to figure it out.

FallenAngelina

^ THIS ^

And it's absolutely normal for an alcoholic to try to find some reason to drink. Grasping for outer conditions (instead of looking inward) on which to blame drinking or on which to hope for sobriety is one of the hallmarks of an addict. Usually the condition grasped for is dramatic. This is just one reason that AA people recommend that the A make no big changes in the first year in the program. Addicts are prone to grasp at "Big Change" as The Answer to their problems instead of quietly sitting and looking inside themselves at what needs changing.

SweetPotato

When I hear you talk about the little sleep and the projects and erratic behavior, I can't help but wonder if he has an underlying bipolar disorder. It's not uncommon for addicts to have mental health issues that they try to self medicate and stabalize. Obviously, it doesn't work. Or maybe it is just the alcohol. Hard to tell when you don't see them sober enough. Regardless, this is not a sound plan. Major life changes do not fix thr problem. Sounds like it may even make things worse. I know you want to believe in him, but protecting yourself if important.

mylifeismine

It would not be chasing happiness or progress, because as
you said, he has untreated alcoholism which is what he will
not directly address.

Did he apologize sincerely for the hurtful things he said? At the
least, you can establish boundaries of not tolerating mean and
hurtful dialog and see how he reacts to that.

With AH, high or low stress jobs - doesn't matter. When an
alcoholic wants to drink they will always have some excuse
to rationalize it in their own mind. AH has highest stress job
in his life now, was opposite extreme last year.... drinking
hasn't changed much........( no mean or hurtful dialog tolerated).

Hugs to you (())

Txbuttercup

A few years back my alcoholic husband left his high paying, high pressure job, in part to reduce stress he felt was contributing to his drinking.

A couple week break turned into a couple months, then a couple years. All the while drinking due to boredom and lack of "purpose".

He then got a lower paying, less stressful position, which was fine by me. Still plenty to pay the bills. This time he drank because it wasn't mentally stimulating enough and he felt underappreciated and underutilized at work.

Going to school will be just as stressful, perhaps more so, than staying at a job he is familiar with. Add to that the financial stress and it's a recipe for disaster.

You are not off base.

He is trying to make big changes externally because he's avoiding making them interally. Sobriety has to be the priority, yes, but it's doubtful turning his life upside down is what's going to get him there. The time he would spend at school would be better spent at aa, therapy, etc. Some one could give him his dream job tomorrow and it wouldn't get him sober.

AnvilheadII

HOGWASH. it is neither chasing happiness NOR progress......he's deflecting while protecting his drinking. rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. don't fall for it.

Txbuttercup

Love this.

PhoenixJ

YEP GEOGRAPHICAL. I built a lovely new home, quit my very good job (when on long service leave) by putting my office key in an envelope with a 3 lined letter. I moved 400km, and took my family with me. I also started a phD. I lost the degree, house, wife, sons, career- because I did not address my alcoholism- I just wanted something to make me feel better- because I convinced myself(?) that I could CONTROL my drinking- big mistake. My drinking got worse- fatally worse. I should have gone to a long term rehab with that long service leave- and sorted myself out. Nothing like hind site.
I am okay with taking the moral high ground- because out of respect I leave my family alone. I am sober 14 months and wrok hard, I am in an active recovery program (Salvo's). Take care of YOU. Stay safe and do not believe the (If it was me) in alcoholic deluded thinking. ACTION speaks, words are nothing.

hopeful4

This.

The root of the problem is addiction, and he wants to believe that making all of these changes will somehow make it all better. Nope.

Reality: You don't leave a good job until you have another good job lined up. He is an adult with responsibilities. I don't love my job, but it pays decent and has good benefits. Therefore, I don't leave, I keep coming and I make the most out of it. Then, on my off time, I do things I enjoy. That's how the world works. It's not all rainbows. Goodness. And his feeling sorry for himself surely does not negate all the sh*t he just put you through.

Hugs.

firebolt

Yeah I agree with everyone - he wan't to change everything except the drinking, and sure, hoping that all night fix the drinking.

But it doesn't.

If you ever wanted a clue as to if he is ready for real recovery, he is giving it to you.

Take care of yourself

firebolt

GEEZE - I swear I wasn't drinking when I wrote this LOL!!

"Yeah I agree with everyone - he want's to change everything except the drinking, and sure, hoping that all might fix the drinking."

Fast brain...slow fingers.

aliciagr

Progress
because he stopped blaming you.

Progress
because he is at least examining his life, and triggers, stress.
Lots of times you will hear the concept a person in recovery is expected to build an strong iron wall and is capable of meeting any challenge with sobriety.

and then you will hear the same concept of : avoid, people, places, things that trigger. and even after decades these triggers still hold power and there must be diligence.

I think people need to examine their own lives, emotions, and truthfully admit where their weaknesses are.

chasing happiness
because its not well thought out. But personally I would not make to much of this coming from someone who appears to be reeling emotionally from what happened. He may have turned to you just to talk, just to have someone to express these things to someone who knows him.

My husband has done this with me. Earlier on when he was more emotional some of his thoughts were sort of scrambled, put together as if he was reaching to understand himself.

I tried not to read too much into it unless the line of thought continued and he never came around and began to acknowledge the flaws in his idea. Like the income, insurance, meeting a standard of living which reduces stress too. My husband always came around to a more balanced perspective. By not overreacting, it helped me stay calm and focus on other things going on in life.


I think it works that way too. Learning to manage stress, emotions without drinking, and possibly inserting small changes where possible to remove people, places, things that increase his risk of triggers.

Although there are probably exceptions. Im sure some people do need to make huge changes in their lives like with work, friends, or geographic location if they are all deeply intertwined.


With separation and possible divorce, yeah no I dont think Id take on the job of supporting him financially. I think you did good with handling the situation in a calm manner.

ladyscribbler

With my ex it was a cover for how much he was deteriorating. His supposedly "carefree lifestyle" was and is the product of being unable to function as an adult in society- finish school, hold down a job, pay bills on time, etc. There was a revolving door of stressors to blame for everything, but he was never willing to factor in alcohol as a cause of any problems in his life, even after nights in jail and near death experiences because of drinking. It was always my fault for calling an ambulance or the bartender's fault for calling the cops.

I was right there with him trying to come up with reasons why he wasn't a "real" alcoholic and spent a brief but miserable period trying to help him be a social drinker, but the binges and abusive behavior got worse, as did my reactions. I was pretty much stuffing all my emotions all the time lest I say something to set him off.

We did a trial separation. I went out of state for a summer to stay with my mom. He was supposedly sober and going to meetings, and I went back despite my gut feeling that he'd been drinking the whole time and trying to hide it, which he had. His mom even helped him cover up his public intoxication arrest that happened a couple days before I returned. I didn't know anything had happened until he got paid and started drinking and ranting about the fine.

I finally left for good after a couple of weeks. I was terrified that I was doing the wrong thing, tearing the family apart, blah, blah, blah. The fact is, I would have stood a good chance of losing my kids if we had stayed there. I made the mistake of thinking I needed his mom's blessing for my decision, and that triggered a chaotic situation that could have been avoided.

I have forgiven her, and she has a good relationship with our son. I know that she was afraid of not seeing her grandson again and that there was no one left to take care of her son so she was going to have to do it. Her efforts to help him led to my ex threatening to kill his dad and punching his mom in the face. I was sorry that had to happen for them to really understand why I had to leave.

I wish I had spent our "trial" separation thinking about what I actually wanted, how to keep me and the kids really safe, rather than focusing on trying to placate my ex and his family. They have their own journey that doesn't really involve me, though working my Al Anon program seems to have sent a few ripples of serenity through their pond just because I've changed the way that I interact with others. Not discussing ex with his parents worked wonders as well. We keep our conversations focused on DS8 and the good stuff we've all got going on, despite the family disease of alcoholism.

I would say give the whole bunch of them some distance and enjoy the quiet time you will gain by not engaging with any nonsense. Legit questions about visitation schedule/school event is one thing, drunken texts and FB rants do not require your attention except to document why it is not safe for your AH to drink while the children are in his care. Nor does discussing his supposed plan for recovery or whatever he's calling it. Without all the words, this looks a lot like more of the same pattern, except maybe he waited a little longer between binges? I got really tripped up focusing on my ex's phantom recovery.

LexieCat

Covfefe.

atalose

Isn’t one of the first causalities of addiction” responsibility” followed by “accountability”, seems he wants to shed both and put the entire load of financial responsibility squarely on your shoulders.

I certainly hope you stick to this but not the “do whatever you feel you need to do” part, that’s pretty much just giving him an invitation to continue NOT to address his real issue – alcoholism.

I also agree, this is not progress or chasing happiness but it is certainly a way for him to have peace while continuing to drink.

honeypig

Recovery is about learning to deal with life on life's terms, NOT trying to make life conform to your every wish so you don't "need" to drink.

Which of those two mindsets sounds closest to what your AH is doing?

Ladybird579

Is this progress? Or chasing happiness and peace that he won't find?


Oh if I had a dollar every time my exah had come up with a reason why he drank and if such and such were to happened he'd stop I'd be rich. In his case it was moving house. "If we didn't live here I'd not feel so depressed so I'd stop drinking" he'd whine. I'd remind him he said that at the last place and had wanted to live were we currently where. He needed to be near his family he'd complain. ( Yes cos they drink and you are running out of drinking buddies here. Not cos you miss then and liked having them around)

Then there was the career change. He begged and pleaded to go to university to do a engineering degree so I agreed even tho I was sick myself and we had the twins not a year old. He lasted a half term in which he moaned cos he wanted to sleep all his time off and couldn't and complained the kids were too noisy for him to study. 7 kids in a tiny house ...yep they do make a noise. He never stopped drinking either.

My feeling is he knows you are done and wants to tie you to him financially so he can keep the status quo longer. Once you are separated he can pursue any life he wants but I'd not entertain this as an idea together.

firebolt

Bahaha, I LOL'ed at work

Maybe the opposite problem regarding "covfefe"

#sorrynotsorry