Co-Parenting with the "Recovering" Alcoholic

Old 05-28-2017, 09:18 PM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 52
Co-Parenting with the "Recovering" Alcoholic

How does your XA earn enough trust to gain back partial physical custody or unregulated visits?

My XAH just recently moved to the same area as me and my daughter after we moved back in January due to a job change. Out custody agreement is split legal custody and I have sole physical custody with him having supervised visitation, what that looks like is up to my discretion.

He claims he's been sober since August last year...or whenever it was that I had found a receipt for alcohol in September...because he doesn't remember exactly when that was but it was definitely the last time he drank. Uh huh. I don't believe him. And while "his sobriety is not my business" when it comes to our toddler it is. He has never been honest about his recovery. I have talked to him on the phone back in January when I know he was drunk. He claims he was just crying. But he is going to hold on for dear life that he's been sober since August. To me this shows he's not in recovery in the sense of not owning up to the truth. Because of that I don't know how to trust him enough to loosen the arrangement.

The fact is that I do think 9 times out of 10 she is perfectly safe with him. But it's that 1 time that scares the s**t out of me. He has always hidden his "slip ups" and if he gets out of control again I fear I won't see it coming until it's too late and something awful happens.

He visits her every weekend and I allow him to spend the day with her in my home because she's only 2.5, still needs naps and I want them to be able to have a nice relaxed day together.

I see him trying. I know he is trying. But his lack of honesty in his recovery prevents me from trusting him to know when things may get bad again. When he visits I can tell he's getting better. Over the last few weekends I have allowed him to take her to breakfast on his own. And 2 weekends ago I allowed him to watch her for the day in my home. These are baby steps for me in slowly giving him and me the space to trust. But I've told him that I have no idea how to get to the place to make that a legal understanding, to just hand her over without first being able to gauge his current state.

We just recently started seeing a coparenting coach, for me the biggest topic is how he can gain back the trust to have unsupervised visits or physical custody. She suggested we go back to him doing a breathalyzer before and after each visit, no questions asked, make it part of the process to just to have a fair starting place. We both agreed. He nodded, totally in agreement. We discussed it later and he was on board. Today was the first visit since then and we both forgot when he arrived. Later in the day I needed to run to the store and asked him to do the breathalyzer. He did, but then started in on how I havent made him do it in months, I obviously know our daughter isn't in danger, making comments about the short times I allowed him to have her unsupervised that made it clear he's building a case, rather than those moments being an attempt at us trying to build trust.

Also at the coparenting visit, he admitted that he doesn't count "slip ups" in his sobriety days. So when I ask how long he's been sober, to him the answer will always be August even if he has "slipped up" since then. To me, when it comes to the safety of our daughter, this answer is not acceptable. To me this is yet again him getting to build his own story and tell me the facts as he sees them/wants them to be. And that is what led to him getting out of control. I honestly would feel much better about things if he would say "I had a slip up 2 months ago and I have been sober since. I am committed to this and to our daughter and I will be honest about my state of sobriety." That's asking for way too much of an addict, I guess. But then isn't trusting him with unrestricted access to our daughter not a good idea?

Any thoughts on this is appreciated
FutureTrip is offline  
Old 05-28-2017, 10:52 PM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 223
No good suggestions, but I have similar questions. Open to any and all imput on this one!!
batchel9 is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 01:44 AM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Member
 
Berrybean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
You refer to him as 'recovering' but it doesn't actually sound like there is any recovery work going on, just a dry drunk with lots of days off from sobriety.

If he doesn't want to change then no one (including you) will be able to force him to do so. Perhaps you could ensure that those visits are supervised as agreed, and if ever in any doubt as to his drinking then insist on a breathalyser before handing your child over. Your childs safety is of most importance now - and that means emotional as well as physical safety. If you are in any doubt of the affects of an alcoholic parent on children then a skim read of the ACOA handbook will be very informative, or a quick browse in the Adult children of alcoholics area on this forum.

Please remember that you are not responsible for him or his alcoholism, and you can still care about him and be reasonable without that standing in the way of protecting your children. Sure, he might not like it, but that's not massively important. There are plenty of options available to him if he really wanted to work on his recovery, and he's a grown adult.

Wishing you all the best. BB
Berrybean is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 03:49 AM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Sober since 10th April 2012
 
FeelingGreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Originally Posted by FutureTrip View Post
Also at the coparenting visit, he admitted that he doesn't count "slip ups" in his sobriety days. So when I ask how long he's been sober, to him the answer will always be August even if he has "slipped up" since then.
This says it all FT, as I'm sure any recovered A will confirm. If you're having slip-ups you're not sober. What you're doing is topping up and eventually it becomes more than that.

My suggestion is that you stick to they breathalyser agreement like glue. If he utters a peep, tell him you had understood he agreed to doing it before and after each visit, and if he would like to take that back you will have to rethink everything. Then never forget again until it becomes so routine that he never questions it again.
FeelingGreat is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:42 AM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Member
 
Maudcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Hi, FT. Agree with the others and you that the safety of your toddler comes first.
You hold the cards here.
If he wants to see his daughter, he has to demonstrate that he is sober.
To demonstrate that he is sober is to take a breathalyzer test.
That he agreed to, btw.
His pushing back against this is classic addict stuff: prod at your boundaries until he finds a weak spot.
Stay as strong as you have been heretofore.
Your daighter comes before him.
Peace.
Maudcat is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:42 AM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
I have a similar situation, except it's an ex-husband and my daughter is 12. Last month he came to her after-school care very drunk and tried to take her out and drive her home. She wants to see her dad, I want her to be safe.

So on one front I am working towards gaining sole legal custody. In the interim, these are the rules for visiting:

1. She doesn't get in a car with him. I drive her to/pick her up from wherever the visit is happening (usually his place).
2. Visits are short (2 hours) and scheduled by me.

One important thing where I would disagree with some of the previous posters - I would stay away from anything that involves monitoring his sobriety. You've mentioned breathalyzers and his own self-report, both of which are causing problems (he lies about self-report and he complains, interferes and obstructs with mandatory breathalyzers). Someone told me once "it's not your job to catch him drinking, it's his job to prove to you that he can be trusted to stay sober".

If you've had a long enough run of him being dishonest or making excuses for his drinking, maybe you should consider setting your default to "he's drinking unless he proves otherwise", and release yourself from the burden of having to ascertain whether he's been using alcohol or not in the recent past.

How does he show that he's consistently sober? It's up to him to do it. If he's in a 12-step group, does he have a sponsor who will get in touch with you? Does he have medical professionals who he can authorize to talk to you? Has he had a good long run of time (six months or a year) during which no alcohol-related incidents have happened and he has been completely reliable? What would you accept as evidence that he is sober and reliable, that doesn't put you in a position of monitoring and checking up constantly?

With my ex, I'm trying to put the burden of proof on him. If he wants longer visits with Kid, he needs to be pro-active about his alcoholism and not just tell me that I can ask him to use a breathalyzer or I can check his apartment for bottles.
Sasha1972 is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:44 AM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Oh yes - I had the same story about how a "slip" doesn't really count because everybody "slips" in recovery. This "slip" involved $200 of alcohol purchases over four days in two different cities.
Sasha1972 is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 08:15 AM
  # 8 (permalink)  
A work in progress
 
LexieCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by Sasha1972 View Post
One important thing where I would disagree with some of the previous posters - I would stay away from anything that involves monitoring his sobriety. You've mentioned breathalyzers and his own self-report, both of which are causing problems (he lies about self-report and he complains, interferes and obstructs with mandatory breathalyzers). Someone told me once "it's not your job to catch him drinking, it's his job to prove to you that he can be trusted to stay sober".
I think breathalyzing is a bad idea when you're still living with the alcoholic, but it's a little bit different when you're separated and he is taking the child for visitation. In those circumstances, it isn't so much about monitoring his drinking as it is protecting the child--like making sure the child is properly bucked into the car seat.

But it's true that if that isn't working for you because of his attitude and the accompanying uncertainty/stress on you, then it might not be the best solution.

Have you checked into SoberLink? That would take you out of the loop altogether, in terms of making sure he complies. I don't know what it costs, but it's worked very well for some people here. And the cost should be borne by him, not you. His drinking is what has made it necessary.
LexieCat is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 01:46 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by Sasha1972 View Post
How does he show that he's consistently sober? It's up to him to do it. If he's in a 12-step group, does he have a sponsor who will get in touch with you? Does he have medical professionals who he can authorize to talk to you? Has he had a good long run of time (six months or a year) during which no alcohol-related incidents have happened and he has been completely reliable? What would you accept as evidence that he is sober and reliable, that doesn't put you in a position of monitoring and checking up constantly?
These are my questions, how can he show he's sober? I really dont know. Technically, you could say he is doing that. He has a sponsor, he claims he's going to meetings, as far as I know he hadn't had any incidents occur because of his drinking for quite awhile, the last evidence I have of his drinking is September. But in the past he had a sponsor and went to meetings all while still drinking. He is good at telling people what they want to hear. He hasnt shown up drunk or even with any evidence of drinking since we moved, I believe he is trying and I believe our daughter is safe with him while not drinking...but until he can be honest about his "slip ups" I don't know what is reasonable in the way of visitation and custody. Having lived 2 states away for the last 5 months, there is no way of me having any evidence one way or the other except for his declaration of sobriety and obviously his word means nothing to me. So we are at an impasse, he claims sobriety and recovery and I don't believe a word he says. I dont know how to move forward from here.

My biggest red flags are the fact that he doesn't count the days he's been sober even though he has a "sobriety date" (of which I know he's drank at least once since then), he's supposedly on step 9 but the only mention he's made of making amends to me is his "living amends" which I guess he regards him spending time with our daughter in my house and I can actually get things done around the house on those days, he filed unbelievable lies about me during the divorce proceedings and he still won't discuss it while claiming he stands by most of what was filed, he now claims that our daughter had never been in danger in his care which in the past he acknowledged she has been. For him, time seems to erase all mistakes.

All in all, to his friends and family he's done everything he should and I'm being controlling and unreasonable. He says all the right things to me about knowing he has to earn trust back back then flips me s**t when I ask him to follow the plan we agreed to
FutureTrip is offline  
Old 05-29-2017, 01:59 PM
  # 10 (permalink)  
A work in progress
 
LexieCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
The fact that he may not be in solid recovery doesn't necessarily make him a risk to your child IF you can monitor his condition while she's in his care. That's why I suggested SoberLink. No, you won't know if he's drinking in between visits. But that won't endanger her, even if it means he's not "there" yet, in terms of his recovery.

Analyzing how well he's working his steps isn't your job. Making sure he's meeting with his sponsor isn't your job. Your only job is to make sure he's not drinking while he has your child.
LexieCat is offline  
Old 06-07-2017, 02:30 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 193
SoberLink has worked well for me. For $200 a month, the service provides unlimited tests weekly, and we scheduled two tests a day (you can opt for 2, 3 or 4 and set your own schedule of testing and acceptable windows - then the system texts or emails you each time a test is taken with the results).

Personally I wanted my ex to test daily because I think he is worse as a parent when he is dry and wanting to drink than when he is actively drinking, at least as far as the kids' emotional health is concerned.

During the period of monitoring, I was convinced that SoberLink kept him sober (rather than proving he was sober). As soon as he goes off monitoring, he slips / relapses, and the cycle begins again. We are about to begin another one, so it's not ideal. But I will say that it dramatically reduced my level of stress and gave me a level of confidence while he was monitoring, in part because having that level of accountability changed his behavior.
CoParentToA is offline  
Old 06-26-2017, 05:39 PM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
I thought I would add this to the thread - it's about stepfamilies, but I think it's relevant even to parents who aren't in a "step":

Difficult Situation #874: 10 Respectful Strategies to Use with an Unhealthy Co-Parent | Smart Stepfamilies
Sasha1972 is offline  
Old 04-16-2019, 08:01 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1
Thoughts

dear FT:

I just found your post on this thread while researching this topic. Reading your post sounds like my life, except I have two boys. The arguments you said he will bring up are 100% on point. I hope that since your post, he entered active recovery.

Thank you for your honesty: it makes me feel slightly less alone.
Originally Posted by FutureTrip View Post
How does your XA earn enough trust to gain back partial physical custody or unregulated visits?

My XAH just recently moved to the same area as me and my daughter after we moved back in January due to a job change. Out custody agreement is split legal custody and I have sole physical custody with him having supervised visitation, what that looks like is up to my discretion.

He claims he's been sober since August last year...or whenever it was that I had found a receipt for alcohol in September...because he doesn't remember exactly when that was but it was definitely the last time he drank. Uh huh. I don't believe him. And while "his sobriety is not my business" when it comes to our toddler it is. He has never been honest about his recovery. I have talked to him on the phone back in January when I know he was drunk. He claims he was just crying. But he is going to hold on for dear life that he's been sober since August. To me this shows he's not in recovery in the sense of not owning up to the truth. Because of that I don't know how to trust him enough to loosen the arrangement.

The fact is that I do think 9 times out of 10 she is perfectly safe with him. But it's that 1 time that scares the s**t out of me. He has always hidden his "slip ups" and if he gets out of control again I fear I won't see it coming until it's too late and something awful happens.

He visits her every weekend and I allow him to spend the day with her in my home because she's only 2.5, still needs naps and I want them to be able to have a nice relaxed day together.

I see him trying. I know he is trying. But his lack of honesty in his recovery prevents me from trusting him to know when things may get bad again. When he visits I can tell he's getting better. Over the last few weekends I have allowed him to take her to breakfast on his own. And 2 weekends ago I allowed him to watch her for the day in my home. These are baby steps for me in slowly giving him and me the space to trust. But I've told him that I have no idea how to get to the place to make that a legal understanding, to just hand her over without first being able to gauge his current state.

We just recently started seeing a coparenting coach, for me the biggest topic is how he can gain back the trust to have unsupervised visits or physical custody. She suggested we go back to him doing a breathalyzer before and after each visit, no questions asked, make it part of the process to just to have a fair starting place. We both agreed. He nodded, totally in agreement. We discussed it later and he was on board. Today was the first visit since then and we both forgot when he arrived. Later in the day I needed to run to the store and asked him to do the breathalyzer. He did, but then started in on how I havent made him do it in months, I obviously know our daughter isn't in danger, making comments about the short times I allowed him to have her unsupervised that made it clear he's building a case, rather than those moments being an attempt at us trying to build trust.

Also at the coparenting visit, he admitted that he doesn't count "slip ups" in his sobriety days. So when I ask how long he's been sober, to him the answer will always be August even if he has "slipped up" since then. To me, when it comes to the safety of our daughter, this answer is not acceptable. To me this is yet again him getting to build his own story and tell me the facts as he sees them/wants them to be. And that is what led to him getting out of control. I honestly would feel much better about things if he would say "I had a slip up 2 months ago and I have been sober since. I am committed to this and to our daughter and I will be honest about my state of sobriety." That's asking for way too much of an addict, I guess. But then isn't trusting him with unrestricted access to our daughter not a good idea?

Any thoughts on this is appreciated
TGG125 is offline  
Old 04-16-2019, 08:38 PM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Member
 
Action's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 182
"it's not your job to catch him drinking, it's his job to prove to you that he can be trusted to stay sober"

I have to say that I agree with this statement, people who are in AA come in all the time with forms from diferant sources to be signed by usually the person leading meeting saying that they were at the meeting. If infact he is on the road to recovery he can document it with constant AA meetings. I don't think I would make it so easy for him and definitely not take his word. He needs to earn it.
Action is offline  
Old 04-16-2019, 10:34 PM
  # 15 (permalink)  
Member
 
trailmix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 8,564
Originally Posted by TGG125 View Post
dear FT:

I just found your post on this thread while researching this topic. Reading your post sounds like my life, except I have two boys. The arguments you said he will bring up are 100% on point. I hope that since your post, he entered active recovery.

Thank you for your honesty: it makes me feel slightly less alone.

Hi TGG125 and welcome to SR.

This thread is about a year old. There are quite a few posters to the Friends and Family forum that deal with visitation with an alcoholic ex, so you might want to start a thread of your own (if you are interested in input) as more people might see your post. You are certainly not alone and you will find a lot if information and support here.

I hope you will stick around.
trailmix is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:08 AM.