firebolt

You are exactly right. The anxiety is because of how he is, not because you are doing anything wrong. Hang in there, I hope all goes well.

Ariesagain

He was so drunk that it was blindingly apparent to total strangers but your daughter is pretending she didn't know, which means she would have gone with him if others hadn't intervened.

He could have killed her.

There no compromising with someone who would risk your child's life and anything you have to do to protect her is what you have to do.

Don't let him minimize, deflect, aggress, or bluster his way out of that reality.

Sasha1972

First up is "minimize". I just got an email from him saying "Kid needs to have more and longer visits with me. Can we schedule next week?". My answer will be "no longer visits, not more than two hours. Here are some openings". I'm guessing "pompous bluster" will come next.

Sasha1972

(I should add that it's very helpful to have people here reminding me that ANYONE WHO TRIES TO DRIVE DRUNK WITH A CHILD IN THE CAR AND HAS THE POLICE CALLED ON HIM WHEN HE WON'T STOP YELLING AND RANTING AT AFTERSCHOOL CARE IS FREAKING DANGEROUS and that I can't just go back to business as usual. I could feel that internal certainty slipping as I read his email and started to think "yeah, it is kind of arbitrary that Kid only visits for two hours, and I sure wouldn't like it if that were me, and she probably does want to see her dad more, and maybe I'm just being overly controlling, I should be nicer ..." It's the result of years of accepting his version of reality ("why are you making such a big deal out of this?", "the problem isn't me, it's that you're so controlling and neurotic", etc etc).

hopeful4

Reality: he is dangerous and could have killed your daughter or someone else. You are doing the right thing, don't question yourself for a second. Expect his awful behavior and see it for the quacking it is.

Hugs.

firebolt

Yeah, and if it were you, you wouldn't have shown up drunk and belligerent at daycare...you wouldn't be drunk and belligerent at home, or anywhere else for that matter.

I know how their words can whittle away at us! Time to trust YOU, your instincts, and how you really feel...not his words. Good for you for sticking to your guns!!

Sasha1972

Good point. I didn't ask for the role of gatekeeper/access controller/mean mommy - I got pushed into it because the other parent won't control his drinking.

Sasha1972

I just got email from ex saying why don't we work this out in counselling "rather than the legal route". If we just sit and talk about our feelings, maybe this whole problem will go away. It helps me to remember "you could have killed our daughter. You have repeatedly fallen through on your commitments to her and exposed her to drunken fights and things she shouldn't have to deal with. You have had many opportunities to get your addiction and mental health issues under control and you've blown every single one of them. The time when we could counsel our way out of this is gone".

So I'm willing to go and sit down with some social worker and talk about parenting if he wants, but this would be in addition to seeking custody through legal means, not in place of it.

Ariesagain

Let me translate: "I am so delusional that I'm sure that whatever therapist we see will be on my side and help break you down until you give me what I want. I will make certain of that because I will reject every therapist until we find one that will say what I want because I am in charge here."

No. And have him send all communications that don't specifically involve logistics (and only logistics) about your daughter to your lawyer.

P.S. This is deflecting. It also has the extra benefit of looking reasonable and mature. Coming from a guy whose nickname for you when communicating to your daughter is "******* Mom"...let's just say he doesn't have much credibility in that regard.

Maudcat

I wouldn't bother with the counselling, Sasha. It's really just another detour/roadblock he is setting in your path.
Keep moving forward. He has had plenty of opportunities to straighten up and fly right. He hasn't taken them, so, along with being gatekeeper, access controller, and overall mean person, you are now officially the uncoupler.
Think of it as unhooking from a train car and leaving it on the track as you steam purposefully away.

AnvilheadII

this isn't about FEELINGS anymore. this is about SAFETY. he has proven himself to be a threat. and you are now OBLIGATED to take action. there isn't enough talk therapy in the world to fix his problems......

it's time to quit making promises about things you might be open to in the future. stick to the facts. limit the talk. no means no.

hopeful4

Tell him to get clean for a significant amount of time and then you can talk counseling. Until then, stay the legal route.

Hugs.

Sasha1972

He's very articulate and superficially charming (when sober), and has been to dozens of counsellors so he's good at talking the talk. Since I can't trust anything he says, there's a limit to what can be accomplished through talking to or with him. I told him that if he wants to set up a counselling session, I'll go once, but this is in addition to binding arbitration, not instead of it.

He's also proposing that he and I use our employer's family benefits to find an arbitrator "if [you] really want". My response is that any discussion about mediation/arbitration should go through our lawyers. I need a binding legal document, not some touchy-feely "contract" in which he promises to be a good boy and not drink when he's not supposed to.

I know this routine - it's "let's make it OUR problem and work on it TOGETHER as a team". It's a form of enmeshment which leads to him influencing me more than I should be influenced. I have fallen for this several times in the past. Now I've got the Giant Wall of Lawyer in front of me (not to mention the Giant Wall of You-Have-Reached-The-End-Of-My-Rope-And-Gone-Right-Over-The-Edge).

Sasha1972

(And I'm right - just this minute got another text message suggesting that we both see a counsellor "to foster better dialog between us". No, the "dialog between us" is not the problem. And I'm sure there will be more similar texts. It feels quite gratifying to just ignore them).

firebolt

I am in awe of your ability to see through the BS, and to keep moving forward!! Hoping for a speedy end to it all for you!

tomsteve

sasha, im not to well knowledgable on legal stuff like youre going through, but is it necessary for you to be receiving these texts? cant there be a stop put to it? make communication through your attorney?

one more thing:
how are YOU doing?

LexieCat

Sasha, I'd really suggest rethinking this counseling deal. Some counselors actually are prone to manipulation. Why give him more ammunition? You got a lawyer, you're taking legal action--I think meeting with him in any other context is useless at best and detrimental to your interests (and your child's interests) at worst.

It's fine to change your mind. This isn't some solemn vow you've made--it's perfectly reasonable to change your mind when he is inundating you with these manipulative text messages. You can even blame it on your lawyer (give him/her a heads-up before you do that). I'm pretty darned sure the lawyer will tell you it isn't in your best interest to do it. Just say you're following your lawyer's advice. That's what you're paying your lawyer to do for you.

Spinner-007

Sasha, just a few quick perspectives on this:

1. No on the counseling. I'll mis-quote this but saw it here from another poster: going to counseling with an active addict is like working on a constructive way to live with a vampire. They'll still suck the life out of you, it's just that you made it easier for them to do it.

2. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. All conversations, texts, voicemails, etc. Any texts he sends to you, forward it to an email address to time and date stamp it. Send texts to that email address of conversations you have with him, too. You may need this information in the future.

3. My state/county has state employees that supervise visitations. That may be the sternest position but it really means that you're not playing softball with this addict.

4. If you truly feel threatened in any way, document everything and get the county/state involved asap. No way you should be living with this kind of anxiety.

5. Pray. God answers, sometimes with a 'yes', sometimes with a 'no', and sometimes with a 'not now'.

Peace to you!

hopeful4

Bravo to you! You are so right, stay the legal course at all costs!

Sasha1972

Thanks everyone! I am documenting everything - I have a 36-page single-spaced Word file recording event by event, day by day for the past year (even have a two-page summary and a table of contents!). I have a folder of pdfs of other documents such as screenshots and hard-copy letters. I have saved all emails and figured out how to archive text messages.

With respect to "counselling" - our divorce order states that before either of us seeks to vary the order through legal means we must participate in mediation or counselling at least once. My lawyer said that I really do have to do this in order to be completely compliant so a judge (if we ever get to the judge stage) can't send me back with instructions to follow the order. So I'm willing to sit through a session of whatever but I am still focused on a legal change.

I think I'll survive a session of counselling. At work (this sounds unrelated but actually is't), I've had to do some training on how to manage sociopaths because we encounter a lot of strange people. (I'm not saying my ex is a sociopath, just an alcoholic jerk). Some of those techniques are useful for not getting drawn into interaction with non-sociopaths - don't volunteer information, repeat their words back to them, give non-answers to questions, don't use I-statements, etc.

As for how I'm doing - I'm exhausted and strung out. I'm following up a dozen different leads for all of this (school, police, child services, psychologists, lawyers, Al-Anon, Alateen, counsellors), ignoring ex's text messages. It's a frigging full-time job. Plus trying to be a halfway decent full-time single mother to an almost-adolescent. I'm fortunate in that I have a good job (with lots of flexibility, obviously, so I can spend time on soberrecovery!), a supportive employer especially around security issues, a stable and supportive partner (although it's a long-distance relationship at present) and some good friends (no family or kin support, however).

But I keep running through my head scenarios in which my daughter is killed or injured in a drunk-driving accident or in which ex gets drunk and turns his anger on her, or gets into fights with his meth-junkie girlfriend in front of her, or gets hauled off to the psych ward again after a 911 call. Those scenarios, plus the attempts at alienation which are going on, keep me moving ahead.