Drunk ex sends kid texts about how awful I am

Old 05-15-2017, 08:49 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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There's another extremely good reason to monitor her texts...she's very vulnerable right now to a predator. She's confused, her father is trying to co-opt her by alienating her from you, and she's already not being honest with you ("I didn't realize he was drunk.")

Counseling for her ASAP, if she isn't already going. She's going to hate losing her phone privacy and he's going to make you the enemy even more. You'll need to stay strong and you'll need help with your daughter.

Sending you a hug.
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:32 AM
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I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as a "right to privacy" regarding phones, social media, etc when it comes to kids. My kids know that I can and will look at their phones at any time for any reason. It's not that I don't trust them, it's that I know what's potentially out there, and it's my job as their mom to make sure they know how to use these things responsibly and intervene if they are not.

With that said, I'm so sorry this is happening. What he's saying is completely horrible and inappropriate. I agree with the suggestion to get her a new phone number if you possibly can, or at the very least block the communication between your DD and her father. Make sure you have EVERYTHING documented for your lawyer.
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:50 AM
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I defended my alcoholic dad for a long time, I used to get upset thinking that he was all alone with no one to take care of him when we were at our mom's house. He was very manipulative, just like your ex.

I think I was scared of upsetting him because on some level I knew that his love was conditional, based on me being a compliant, perfect child. It was "safer" to take things out on my mom because she was pretty much always there.

I'm glad your daughter has you in her corner to protect her, even if she doesn't appreciate it now, you are definitely doing the right things. Be patient with yourself and with her.
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Old 05-15-2017, 10:05 AM
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OK I'm gonna just say this about the whole right to privacy thing. When you're dealing with a manipulative ConMan the last thing you need is lack of proof of their actions. My ex went to GREAT lengths to hide what was going on. And when they think you are on to them they use the whole right to privacy thing.

Look, if you're in a relationship with someone that includes living or finances or kids or work etc together, I'm sorry but I think there is a certain RIGHT TO KNOW aspect to them. My partner has a RIGHT TO KNOW where I am if I'm not at home and its 2AM. Or if I say I am supposed to do something and come up with an excuse as to why it didn't happen. You have a RIGHT to know what and who your minor child is doing or seeing. A RESPONSIBILITY I'd argue.

I knew my ex was up to something. However if you do things their way, you'll stay a mushroom forever. A mushroom is live in the dark and eat CRAP to live.

Left up to them, we would be a mushroom forever. If they have lost your trust by you becoming suspicious, I'm sorry but they need to be transparent in their actions to you before you can gain trust back.

I'm not suggesting that we have a right to pry into matters that don't include us. But all of this B/S they put us through....IS INCLUDING US.

Once I knew something was up, I placed tracking devices on my vehicles that she used. I had a web monitor that I installed that tracked online traffic over the home WI-FI. I looked at calls she made on phones that were on MY account. I don't regret doing any one of them!

Once they gave me all I needed to know, I was absolutely CERTAIN that I was no longer just suspicious. I was now CERTAIN. Once certain it is much much easier to make an orderly plan on how to end things.

I'm sorry if some of ya'll don't agree. But lots of us here become mushrooms because we are so worried that we will pry and get yelled at.

Stop being mushrooms.

As soon as I asked my XAGF who she was texting at 11:30 at night and 5AM. And she became enraged I could be so disrespectful to check on her actions......and then she LIED as to who those text were to. And she got busted. But it was all about me violating HER privacy. Never minds she was having an affair. That isn't what I was supposed to focus on.

Within a day she went out and got a new phone claiming it to be a "WORK PHONE". Another lie.

You get to do things more your way when you KNOW the truth...........no matter how you came by it.
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Old 05-15-2017, 10:24 AM
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I'm gonna vehemently disagree when it comes to adult partners. There are stalking laws and others that criminalize that sort of conduct. And the last thing any partner needs is to hand someone a basis for a criminal charge or protective order against them.

I agree that kids have no RIGHT to privacy--at least not absolute privacy.
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Old 05-15-2017, 10:38 AM
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I really appreciate the perspectives from people who are ACOAs (since that what Kid is going to be, unfortunately, through no choice of her own). I am trying to think about the long game - what can I do that can help equip her for the years to come, even if it makes her mad at me right now?

Alateen: check. Counsellor: check. Not worrying any more about spying on Kid's communications: check. Going to get in touch with youth pastor from church to ask if she can take Kid out for ice cream or tea sometime soon (no big pressure to talk, just friendly adult).

Trying to figure out how to talk to Kid about her father's issues without sounding like I'm trashing him, knowing that if she gets angry, the anger is going to land on me (because I'm the stable one whose love and presence is unconditional, so it's safe to get mad at me. Also knowing that at the moment AXH is probably a lot more "fun" than I am - he's got the cute new puppy, promises of endless screen time, buying Kid anything she wants, etc, as distinct from Mom, who's tired [because I also have a full-time-plus job in addition to this crap, while Dad's got endless free time as he's on disability] and who says things like "pick up the clothes on the floor" and "you need to eat some of your vegetables" and "no, that show's NC-17 so you can't watch it on Netflix").
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Old 05-15-2017, 10:58 AM
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Sasha, I'm going to recommend a book for you, called "When Dad Hurts Mom." It's another book by Lundy Bancroft (author of "Why Does He DO That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men"). The book is specifically aimed at helping kids recover from the effects of witnessing violence in their home, but a lot of the stuff that abusers do, in terms of trying to undermine the other parent and to use the children as pawns to continue the abuse, would appear to be relevant to what's going on in your situation.

I have a ton of respect for Bancroft, and I think the book might help you with ways to talk about what's going on.
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Old 05-15-2017, 11:25 AM
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My best suggestion is just giving her honesty & being prepared for it to be many, MANY conversations.... not just one. I've always found that DD needed time to think & marinate on the things we talked about, and that it always left her with more questions later. It was important that she understood I truly meant it when I said that I had an open door policy for her to ask anything. Sometimes the only answer I had was, "I need some time to think about that really great question you just asked..." and then I made sure I DID get back to her, and not just brush it off.

I had to remind her that me being honest meant that sometimes that answer really WAS "I don't know". Not because I'm trying to avoid, but because I was navigating new waters too & didn't always know the way myself. I could promise to come back to her when I had it more figured out, lol. I also showed her that I didn't always have my crap together in all of this either -that it took me off guard at times & it was normal for her to feel that way too.

We talk about addiction as a whole, not just related to RAH & alcohol. We talk about drugs, gambling, sex, food - any kind of numbing behavior that can be used to hide or filter emotions.... how on some level, we are ALL broken.

We talk as openly about recovery as we do addiction.... & how so many people are affected more than we can see on the surface - I can't tell you how many times DD has been able to be there for other kids at school or in a club when crisis occurs in their worlds, just by listening & letting them know that they aren't alone.

We watched a few episodes of Intervention together, ones that I had previewed & felt she could relate to her own situation.

I had to own my side of the street in all of this and explain how my own codie behaviors were often as bad if not worse than his addicted behaviors. I explained how hard it was for me as an adult to be un-learning all of this & trying to put better behaviors into practice in my relationships. I call myself out when I fumble on it & explain what I did "wrong" & how I was correcting it.

One of my favorite tricks has always been turning her questions around on her - what was your first thought when you saw x, y, z? How did it make you FEEL? Did your stomach roll, etc?

At this age, I've also shared MANY pics of DUI accidents & the details of injury & death that result from it. I do NOT take drinking & driving lightly.... I don't EVER want her to accept the possibility of getting into a car as "it'll be alright this one time" instead of knowing that "No is a complete sentence & the only reason I need".

We've talked about things like date rape drugs & how college girls are showing scary trends of binge drinking. In middle school DD is running into real-life examples of early drug & alcohol use every single day. It blows my mind that the school flips out if a kid has aspirin in their bag for headaches, but they can smuggle vodka-laced gummy bears in without raising a single eyebrow.
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Old 05-15-2017, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Hangnbyathread View Post
Not stalking if its YOUR car that you track or YOUR phone account that you watch or YOUR Home network.

I could not in any way look at HER phone records or place a device in HER car.
Sorry, that's just semantics to me. I think there's a big difference between having the RIGHT to the things you talk about vs. it being respectful to do so...... like I don't have the RIGHT to know where my husband is at 2 am even if it's obviously disrespectful for him not to be home and/or accounted for. I do not OWN him.
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Old 05-15-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Hangnbyathread View Post
Not stalking if its YOUR car that you track or YOUR phone account that you watch or YOUR Home network.

I could not in any way look at HER phone records or place a device in HER car.
OK, I'm a retired prosecutor who trains on this stuff and please let me assure you that the fact that it's your own car or your home network is not a defense to surreptitiously following someone. There might be other factors that would affect the success of a prosecution, but the fact that you own the car or the network is by no means dispositive.
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Old 05-15-2017, 11:50 AM
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We can agree to disagree.

Nobody owns anyone. If my partner feels like she doesn't have to tell me where she is at 2AM, or tell me why she is putting 700 miles on my car in a week while I'm gone, we will no longer be partners. She will be free to conduct herself any way she likes after that. No legal stance needed.
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Old 05-15-2017, 12:14 PM
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I am not bashing you, Hangn, and I've done my share of what I would consider to be inappropriate snooping, myself. Whether it SHOULD be OK or not is a matter of debate. I just don't want people to think it's perfectly OK from a legal standpoint.

And legality DOES matter. As much as a person might want to record some of the awful/crazy things the alcoholic says, there are actual criminal penalties for secretly recording someone in a significant number of jurisdictions. I don't want to see anyone jammed up for trying to protect themselves, that's all. It's always best if you think you have the right to do something along those lines to get legal advice first.
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Old 05-15-2017, 12:37 PM
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... to clarify, I'm not talking about putting a bug on another adult's phone or stalking them. I'm talking about reading texts sent to my child on her phone, in a situation where the person sending the texts has endangered the child in the recent past. I believe concerns about safety in this case outweigh concerns about a minor's right to privacy from a parent.
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Old 05-15-2017, 12:38 PM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Hangnbyathread View Post
We can agree to disagree.

Nobody owns anyone. If my partner feels like she doesn't have to tell me where she is at 2AM, or tell me why she is putting 700 miles on my car in a week while I'm gone, we will no longer be partners. She will be free to conduct herself any way she likes after that. No legal stance needed.
im truly sorry to read you have some serious control issues.
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Old 05-15-2017, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
Sasha, I'm going to recommend a book for you, called "When Dad Hurts Mom." It's another book by Lundy Bancroft (author of "Why Does He DO That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men"). The book is specifically aimed at helping kids recover from the effects of witnessing violence in their home, but a lot of the stuff that abusers do, in terms of trying to undermine the other parent and to use the children as pawns to continue the abuse, would appear to be relevant to what's going on in your situation.

I have a ton of respect for Bancroft, and I think the book might help you with ways to talk about what's going on.
Thanks for the recommendation! I've certainly heard of Lundy Bancroft in connection with his advocacy for women who have experienced domestic violence - never imagined that his work might be relevant to me. (Add that to the long list of "I never imagined that ...").
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Old 05-15-2017, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tomsteve View Post
im truly sorry to read you have some serious control issues.
LOL. I took control of the issues when the addict starts to take advantage of my lack of concern for controlling what affects me or my life. I take control of my outcomes in those circumstances you better believe it.

Their lack of accountability will not be at my peril.
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Old 05-15-2017, 08:33 PM
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Okay people, only licensed attorneys can tell you if you are "stalking", or taking actions that are illegal. I have removed all posts that made legal statements.

Mike
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Old 05-16-2017, 06:03 AM
  # 38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sasha1972 View Post
I really appreciate the perspectives from people who are ACOAs (since that what Kid is going to be, unfortunately, through no choice of her own). I am trying to think about the long game - what can I do that can help equip her for the years to come, even if it makes her mad at me right now?

Alateen: check. Counsellor: check. Not worrying any more about spying on Kid's communications: check. Going to get in touch with youth pastor from church to ask if she can take Kid out for ice cream or tea sometime soon (no big pressure to talk, just friendly adult).

Trying to figure out how to talk to Kid about her father's issues without sounding like I'm trashing him, knowing that if she gets angry, the anger is going to land on me (because I'm the stable one whose love and presence is unconditional, so it's safe to get mad at me. Also knowing that at the moment AXH is probably a lot more "fun" than I am - he's got the cute new puppy, promises of endless screen time, buying Kid anything she wants, etc, as distinct from Mom, who's tired [because I also have a full-time-plus job in addition to this crap, while Dad's got endless free time as he's on disability] and who says things like "pick up the clothes on the floor" and "you need to eat some of your vegetables" and "no, that show's NC-17 so you can't watch it on Netflix").
I totally get this. When my ex was in his "Superdad" phase he was like that, though it only lasted as long as the custody case. I think of it as the Ferrari effect. You've got one parent (Ferrari parent) who's flashy, fun and cool, but not very safe or reliable. Then you have the Toyota Camry parent- the one who makes you brush your teeth and go to school and the whole routine, the dependable one, the "boring" one who has to take care of all the million tiny details of daily childrearing.

I have to remind myself that I am allowed to cut loose and be fun sometimes. Saturday morning I could do chores and errands, but what if I leave them for a few hours and take kiddo to the $5 matinee? I mean, even a Toyota Camry can have a sunroof. I think maybe a little chill time away from all the seriousness of the past couple weeks might be good for both of you. Just remember to close that sunroof before you drive through the car wash!
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Old 05-16-2017, 07:39 AM
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To the OP, I'm so sorry that you and your daughter are dealing with this. And whether her father is being abusive due to addiction/alcoholism, brain tumor, insanity or is just a garden variety glassbowl is irrelevant. Abuse_ is_ abuse and you are doing the right thing by taking action to protect her.

And a PSA reminder to all: we never know who is reading these posts. Perhaps exes with vendattas, stalkers, those with control issues trying to find someone. Be safe when sharing information and when someone PM's you on this board.
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Old 05-16-2017, 07:44 AM
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I was thinking about your DD last night Sasha & wondered - does she participate in any activities or clubs outside of school & family?

For DD, having something that was ALL HERS was incredibly helpful for her. It gave her a safe place for her to explore parts of her personality as an individual & not have constant reminders about the stress in other areas of her life. Just a thought for you in case it might help!
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