Collecting thoughts after ex tried to drive drunk with child
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
No, they definitely should not have to deal with these things. It causes them to grow up way too fast, an it's sad. However, you have to get past those feelings, and deal in the reality. She has to have an education on what alcoholism does to your judgement, and be educated on what is within HER power to control in her own environment. Empower her.
Hugs.
Hugs.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Yeah, unfortunately some of those essential kid conversations, awkward and uncomfortable as they are for everybody, are necessary. Even if she looks mortified, she'll still hear you and think about it later. I also think getting through the first conversation will make the next one easier--on both of you. She won't feel like she's bringing up some taboo subject.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
support her with LOTS of love.....she must hear that this is not her fault...at all, in any way. that the fact that she was willing to go with her father is not "wrong" - but that for her own SAFETY she must not get in a car with ANYONE who has been drinking. and that if she ever feels unsure or unsafe, she can call you - at any time of the day or night - and that you will come get her (within reason - if you are on a trip to another city, or in the middle of an important meeting).
it's the same as the gun talk - if you are anywhere with your friends and someone has a gun - you A) get as far away from the person and the gun as possible and B) you call me.
or drugs.
or violence.
this is more about personal safety - HER personal safety. and in this case, that does include her dad. but don't make that the primary focus.
it's the same as the gun talk - if you are anywhere with your friends and someone has a gun - you A) get as far away from the person and the gun as possible and B) you call me.
or drugs.
or violence.
this is more about personal safety - HER personal safety. and in this case, that does include her dad. but don't make that the primary focus.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Well, the first conversation with Kid didn't go so well:
Me: Kid, I wanted to ask you something abut the incident last week with your dad.
Kid: What?
Me: Well, it's really scary to me that you might have been in a car with a drunk driver and I was wondering how you felt about it or what was in your mind.
Kid: I didn't realize he was drunk.
Me: Lots of other people said that he was walking funny and they could smell alcohol.
Kid: I didn't realize he was drunk.
Me: Were you concerned that maybe your dad would be upset if you didn't go with him?
Kid: I didn't realize he was drunk.
Me: I just want you to know that any time you're with someone and they've been drinking and they want to drive, not just your dad but anybody at all, you can call me and I will come and get you no matter what and no matter where you are.
Kid: Okay.
Me: Drunk driving really scares me.
Kid: I didn't realize he was drunk.
Me: I'm trying to understand what happened so we can make sure it doesn't happen again.
Kid: I didn't realize he was drunk. Okay? (headphones)
Me: Kid, I wanted to ask you something abut the incident last week with your dad.
Kid: What?
Me: Well, it's really scary to me that you might have been in a car with a drunk driver and I was wondering how you felt about it or what was in your mind.
Kid: I didn't realize he was drunk.
Me: Lots of other people said that he was walking funny and they could smell alcohol.
Kid: I didn't realize he was drunk.
Me: Were you concerned that maybe your dad would be upset if you didn't go with him?
Kid: I didn't realize he was drunk.
Me: I just want you to know that any time you're with someone and they've been drinking and they want to drive, not just your dad but anybody at all, you can call me and I will come and get you no matter what and no matter where you are.
Kid: Okay.
Me: Drunk driving really scares me.
Kid: I didn't realize he was drunk.
Me: I'm trying to understand what happened so we can make sure it doesn't happen again.
Kid: I didn't realize he was drunk. Okay? (headphones)
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: MD
Posts: 658
Do keep Alateen in mind, other kids might be able to communicate about this stuff with her better than you or the shrink can. Those kids have lived it too and can speak her language not "grownup". I'm in alanon but have seen some amazing transformations in alateen kids- a few of them have spoken at local alanon conventions and they have lots to say once they have a voice.
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
Sasha, I also recommend you take screenshots of the text message where admits he drank and tried to pick up your daughter. Print a copy out as well and staple to the corresponding page in your notebook where you are keeping all of this logged. This way in case something happens to your phone you will have a copy to present in court.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by Sasha1972 
Hi all,
I'm trying to collect the strands of thoughts that have been going through my head since last week, when ex attempted to take daughter from after-school program while very drunk (staff and other parents stopped him, police were called, I came and got daughter, daughter is now with me). The thing that I worried about the most (ex endangering daughter by drinking while she was in his care) has happened and now I have to move forward to keep her safe. Here are some of the feelings I'm grappling with, if anyone has any insights, I would welcome them.
1. GUILT. He was staggering and slurring his words according to parents, staff and police. He drove to the school. If they hadn't stopped him, he was going to drive Kid back to his place through heavy rush-hour traffic. That's how people die.
He was picking Kid up because I was trying to make shared parenting work and we had agreed she'd spend the evening with him. He swore up and down that he'd been abstinent since February and I believed him. I also believed that he loved Kid enough to keep her safe. I feel like I risked her life because I was dumb enough to believe her father.
2. Needing to be strong to stay the course. It's clear to me that she can't stay with him again. I will probably need to go to court to give this legal weight. However, I also know that I am vulnerable to ex's minimizations, rationalization and emotional arguments ("you're trying to turn Kid against me, you can't destroy her relationship with me, you're making a big deal out of one slip, I only slipped because I was stressed and it won't happen again", etc etc).
I know intellectually that drunk driving with a kid is one of these things where you don't get a second chance, but my challenge is going to be to not listen to all the arguments ex will muster for why he should still have Kid staying at his place (including, I expect, "I bought her a puppy! She'll miss her puppy!").
3. How to talk to Kid about it. I am concerned that Kid could see how drunk her father was but got in the car with him anyway. She is 12 and pretty clued in about alcoholism, but didn't or couldn't refuse to go with a drunk driver. We had talked about an emergency "x-plan" for situations where she was uncomfortable, but she didn't use it - the police called me and that's how I knew what had happened.
How do I address this with Kid - that she doesn't have to do anything that someone who's been drinking tells her to do, that she has to put her safety first? I don't want to make her feel like it was her fault or interrogate her ("Why didn't you refuse when your dad told you it was time to go?") but I want to talk more with her about safety.
That's all I've got on my mind right now ...
I'm trying to collect the strands of thoughts that have been going through my head since last week, when ex attempted to take daughter from after-school program while very drunk (staff and other parents stopped him, police were called, I came and got daughter, daughter is now with me). The thing that I worried about the most (ex endangering daughter by drinking while she was in his care) has happened and now I have to move forward to keep her safe. Here are some of the feelings I'm grappling with, if anyone has any insights, I would welcome them.
1. GUILT. He was staggering and slurring his words according to parents, staff and police. He drove to the school. If they hadn't stopped him, he was going to drive Kid back to his place through heavy rush-hour traffic. That's how people die.
He was picking Kid up because I was trying to make shared parenting work and we had agreed she'd spend the evening with him. He swore up and down that he'd been abstinent since February and I believed him. I also believed that he loved Kid enough to keep her safe. I feel like I risked her life because I was dumb enough to believe her father.
2. Needing to be strong to stay the course. It's clear to me that she can't stay with him again. I will probably need to go to court to give this legal weight. However, I also know that I am vulnerable to ex's minimizations, rationalization and emotional arguments ("you're trying to turn Kid against me, you can't destroy her relationship with me, you're making a big deal out of one slip, I only slipped because I was stressed and it won't happen again", etc etc).
I know intellectually that drunk driving with a kid is one of these things where you don't get a second chance, but my challenge is going to be to not listen to all the arguments ex will muster for why he should still have Kid staying at his place (including, I expect, "I bought her a puppy! She'll miss her puppy!").
3. How to talk to Kid about it. I am concerned that Kid could see how drunk her father was but got in the car with him anyway. She is 12 and pretty clued in about alcoholism, but didn't or couldn't refuse to go with a drunk driver. We had talked about an emergency "x-plan" for situations where she was uncomfortable, but she didn't use it - the police called me and that's how I knew what had happened.
How do I address this with Kid - that she doesn't have to do anything that someone who's been drinking tells her to do, that she has to put her safety first? I don't want to make her feel like it was her fault or interrogate her ("Why didn't you refuse when your dad told you it was time to go?") but I want to talk more with her about safety.
That's all I've got on my mind right now ...
So no real words of wisdom. Just appreciating your post and following responses. Hang in there! We got this!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
Batchel9 better you figure out that he can't be trusted to make good decisions now than later. My ex and I had all kinds of agreements - he wouldn't drink while Kid was with him, if he was incapacitated he would call me or a friend to look after Kid, he would give way to others if they were concerned about his drinking, etc etc. He blew through all of those agreements. I could make a flowchart of Bad Decisions:
1. He could have chosen not to drink.
2. If he chose to drink, he could have chosen not to get blind drunk.
3. If he chose to get blind drunk, he could have chosen to call me to pick up Kid.
4. If he chose not to call me to pick up Kid, he could have called someone else.
5. If he chose not to call anyone, he could have stayed off the road and not gone to the after-school care.
6. If he chose to go to the after-school care, he could have accepted the offers of a ride home or a taxi that other parents and staff gave him.
7. If he chose not to accept those offers, he could have left without Kid.
But none of those things happened. Instead, he displayed awful judgment at every single point and produced the (second) worst possible outcome, the worst being actually driving his car into someone else, and injuring or killing someone (I would not call this "an accident", because there is nothing accidental in the events leading up to it).
So - trust your intuition and your reading of your own situation. If you think your husband is unsafe to be around kids, you're right.
1. He could have chosen not to drink.
2. If he chose to drink, he could have chosen not to get blind drunk.
3. If he chose to get blind drunk, he could have chosen to call me to pick up Kid.
4. If he chose not to call me to pick up Kid, he could have called someone else.
5. If he chose not to call anyone, he could have stayed off the road and not gone to the after-school care.
6. If he chose to go to the after-school care, he could have accepted the offers of a ride home or a taxi that other parents and staff gave him.
7. If he chose not to accept those offers, he could have left without Kid.
But none of those things happened. Instead, he displayed awful judgment at every single point and produced the (second) worst possible outcome, the worst being actually driving his car into someone else, and injuring or killing someone (I would not call this "an accident", because there is nothing accidental in the events leading up to it).
So - trust your intuition and your reading of your own situation. If you think your husband is unsafe to be around kids, you're right.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
1 - don't feel guilty in the least. This is his fault, not yours.
2 - Get this documented and take legal action. Don't wait. This is clear evidence that until he's got his s*it together and can prove he's been treated for alcohol abuse and demonstrated a track record of trustworthy behavior - he shouldn't have custody o. Period. You have every right and obligation to protect your child and this is a clear and actionable demonstration that he currently is a danger to the child.
3 - Your child is 12. tell the open truth. Don't blame, but be honest. Say that Dad needs to get some help to get healthy and make safe and healthy choices. He loves you but he needs to get himself well. Until he does, he's not making safe choices for you and I'm not willing to allow him to endanger you. It's not HIM, HE's not a bad man... but he's making bad choices because of alcohol. Alcohol can do that to a person.
I'm sorry you're in this situation.
2 - Get this documented and take legal action. Don't wait. This is clear evidence that until he's got his s*it together and can prove he's been treated for alcohol abuse and demonstrated a track record of trustworthy behavior - he shouldn't have custody o. Period. You have every right and obligation to protect your child and this is a clear and actionable demonstration that he currently is a danger to the child.
3 - Your child is 12. tell the open truth. Don't blame, but be honest. Say that Dad needs to get some help to get healthy and make safe and healthy choices. He loves you but he needs to get himself well. Until he does, he's not making safe choices for you and I'm not willing to allow him to endanger you. It's not HIM, HE's not a bad man... but he's making bad choices because of alcohol. Alcohol can do that to a person.
I'm sorry you're in this situation.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,618
1. Getting over the feeling guilty. I gave him plenty of chances to show that he could be a responsible parent and he blew them all. This is his doing, not mine.
2. Got an appointment in a couple of days with one of the best family law firms in the city. I've seen how they've handled other cases and I want them to handle mine. I've got my documentation together and have learned the procedure for changing a divorce order. I'm willing to negotiate on details of visitation and access, but not on sole custody.
3. Am trying straight talk with Kid. Kid doesn't really want to hear it. Today I drove her to her father's place so she could walk the dog with him (he looked hungover but sober). On the way back, Kid wanted to know if she could spent the whole afternoon with him next time. I said no. Kid asked why. I said "because I can't trust your father to not drink when you're with him". Kid said "but he promised he won't any more". I said "he promised that many times and each time he drank. Last time he did something really really dangerous". Kid was quiet.
2. Got an appointment in a couple of days with one of the best family law firms in the city. I've seen how they've handled other cases and I want them to handle mine. I've got my documentation together and have learned the procedure for changing a divorce order. I'm willing to negotiate on details of visitation and access, but not on sole custody.
3. Am trying straight talk with Kid. Kid doesn't really want to hear it. Today I drove her to her father's place so she could walk the dog with him (he looked hungover but sober). On the way back, Kid wanted to know if she could spent the whole afternoon with him next time. I said no. Kid asked why. I said "because I can't trust your father to not drink when you're with him". Kid said "but he promised he won't any more". I said "he promised that many times and each time he drank. Last time he did something really really dangerous". Kid was quiet.
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