DontRemember

Interesting. I've never seen this thread. As a 'double winner' I was torn reading the initial 'addict note'. I can relate to the confusion and the being scared of life without a crutch,ect..I've been there,but on the flip side it striked me as a manipulation tactic,hell, maybe one I'd use even and has been used on me before. Then I read the responses... it then hit me..yep..it's ALL manipulation. There's NOTHING about what the addict is going to do for themselves at all!! Sleep? Asking to expect nothing from them? What in the actual *******!?

honeypig

I normally avoid threads of this type and anything else w/a "letter to whoever" from the A. They always seem to grate on me, and in the past I assumed it was something wrong with me, that I just didn't really get it somehow. XAH told me the reason he couldn't get sober was b/c I wasn't compassionate enough. Maybe he was right, I thought, maybe I really AM a hard-hearted b****. I can't even appreciate these letters that are supposed to be heart-rending stuff from the alcoholic...

But thanks to the posts here, I begin to see that maybe it wasn't me, after all. It was my poor beleaguered BS sensor, once again trying (and failing) to get my attention. I have stuffed that sensor under the couch cushions, put it in the back closet, hidden it up in the attic, for so many years that I pretty much stopped hearing it, or if I did hear something, I wondered what that noise was...

I do think that an awful lot of what is contained in these "letters to whoever" is INDEED very self-serving and manipulative. This one in particular reminds me of an argument XAH and I had--I mentioned an incident where he'd lied to me about something and how that had hurt me. His response? "Well, how do you think I felt, having had to lie to you?" Huh? On so many different levels, huh?

I'm going to go see if I can't find that long-lost BS sensor, dust her off and shine her up and put her in the warm sunshine where she belongs. She's not my enemy, she's my guardian angel.

Kudos as well as thanks to those of you who have been intelligent and perceptive and courageous enough to call bullcrap when bullcrap is evident.

OpheliaKatz

I am glad you shared this because the exact same thing happened to me. "How do you think I feel about having had to lie?" he said. I said that what he did was hurtful, and he said, "All you think about is your feelings, what about my feelings? I can't even tell you the truth!" Crazy.

I was feeling kind of lonely today, but after reading what you wrote, I now feel less lonely.

Ladybird579

Did an active addict actually write it? My exah would not have had the ability to write that at all but it kind of feels like what he'd say...all wanting to be made allowances for and bury his head. Sleep was his sanctuary when he wasn't drunk or on his way to being. I just thought he was lazy. It still makes me angry that he can't handle normal life and has to be in rehab ALL the time being waited on hand and foot and never having to clean or cook or do normal everyday things. Diddums.

aliciagr

This first letter doesnt bother me. I can say my husband was rarely at a point where he was able to express things in such a logical, thoughtful way (also considering my feelings) during his addiction. He went up and down about treatment, and tried a few things before settling into something. Im aware it can take multiple stints at rehab, multiple types of treatments before progress can be seen. I also know the longer addiction goes on, the more it progresses usually. The more damage and such. So I have been thinking how I would feel if this was a discussion in year 15. I probably would have a different attitude, more resentment than I do now. But I couldnt resist replying to the letter. I kept doing it in my head, so thought I might as well write it out.


Assuming this written by my husband

-------------------
Dear family,

I know you’ve been reeling with emotion while I’ve been gone.
Yes thats what normal people do when someone disappears

I understand you have dreams and hopes for a life with me.
Well yes that was the plan when we got married

When I come home from my latest binge you’ll probably do two things. You’ll breathe a sigh of relief that I’m alive
yes

and you’ll also want to talk to me about my plans for the days and months ahead.
No, because that would be bad timing as soon as you came in from a binge run. and plus I dont think you know what your doing for the days/months ahead

The truth is, I have no idea.
Oh look I was right

You see, I don’t understand how to do life.
well you were doing life just fine until some emotional stuff happened and you couldnt deal with it. And then you started using alcohol and drugs (again). However I dont think you know how to get out from under those things now

I’ve lost a lot of tools along the way and some of them were never actually developed.
I dont think you lost the tools you had for living life at this point, but they are getting rusty. Yep I agree some stuff you also have struggled with since you were a kid - so do you think maybe you need some help replenishing your tool box at this point?

I feel a huge amount of shame right now and confusing thoughts flood my mind continuously.
Im sure you do. I would if I was in your shoes

I know you don’t understand what I’m going through, and you’re dealing with your own pain.
Well I may understand more than you think. And yes I have been dealing with a lot of pain, but I also went out and got help for myself so I could better understand whats going on with you, any my own emotions.


You might want me to “just be okay” so I’ll attempt to walk that out for you, at least on the surface, at least for now, because honestly, I’m too exhausted from my last binge to think straight.
You cant just be ok, because your not ok

During the days and weeks ahead, if I don’t make a plan for my recovery, I’ll be dealing with my raw emotions and obsession to use again. I’ll deal with it all by myself.
You will deal with these things regardless if you make plans for recovery or not. But by getting help you dont have to do it all by yourself without support

When I try to talk about it with you, I am often met with a blank look or worry.
Probably happens a lot because sometimes you dont make sense. When you are high or drunk, you often say the most absurd things.

You don’t understand. I don’t understand. It’s frustrating and I feel like giving up every time I face something that seems ordinary to you.
I get that. Im frustrated too.

I don’t want to go away and get help.
Im sure you dont, and yep its gotta be scary for you.
The thought is scary for me too

Honestly, I don’t want to do anything. Everything feels hopeless and my life looks like a million dead ends. There is wreckage to clean up with people, finances, and with my physical state of well being. It’s all too much. Can I just go to sleep?
I get that too. And yes there is a lot of damage.
But its only going to keep growing and getting worse if you dont get help. Sometimes I would like to stay in bed and sleep too. Sometimes I do. But in the end it doesnt help much. Life is still waiting when I get up.

Okay, let me rethink this. I want to give you a glimmer of hope. There is light at the end of the tunnel. I just can’t see it right now and you certainly can’t see it for me.
thinking to myself - and where is he going with this bout of optimism

Here’s what I need you to do. First, tell me you believe in me.
I can tell you again, but I hope deep inside you already know this.

Second, don’t just plug me back into my daily routine and expect me to get it right this time. I’ve repeated this cycle a thousand times. It always ends exactly the same. Can’t you see that?
Yes, Ive been aware of this for a while. Doing the same thing over and over with the same result is illogical

I’m scared and I don’t want you to tell me what to do, or give me an ultimatum…but that may be the best thing for me.
I know your scared and confused too. Part willing to take steps for recovery and part of you not willing yet. Ive been thinking of ultimatums and working through it with my therapist because taking that step is emotionally difficult for me

The worst thing you can do is to get comfortable with my addiction. The worst way you can react is to let me come back and respond as if nothing has happened.
Im not at all comfortable with your addiction.
Knowing how to respond is tough. I could yell but that will only make you defensive. I wont feel better, and it wont help you either.
I could cry but that wont make me feel better, and it will make you feel guilty and shameful just as you said earlier. So I wait for moments like this when you are not wasted and we can talk through it.


I know you’re busy. You have a life, a job, and responsibilities…but please don’t pretend we’re not in crisis. We are.
You are my family and of the utmost importance in my life. I know we are in crisis. Ive known for a while now

I may tell you we’re not, but I’m bleeding. Every time I go out and use I’m dying a little bit more. I’m getting a little bit closer to our whole lives and future being stolen.
I know this. Its good to hear you realize thesame thing too

You don’t have to do the work for me. You don’t have to turn your back on me, but please…don’t plug me right back into the same merry-go-round I just got off of. It didn’t work then. It won’t work now.
I need help.

I agree. And Ive learned most people in your situation need help. But talking about help is just talk. Are you ready to take action? If so, I am here to help you find proper treatment. My therapist is an addiction doctor and will see you and help you develop a plan. Or if you have other ideas Im listening and Im here to support you. Whats required from you at this point is a willingness to get healthy, to stop using, and accept outside help.

aliciagr

This posts bothers me much more than the other one.
I feel like it was written with the intent to ask family members to not enable. But there is not really any reference to enabling behaviors its all about a general "help". And there are lots of forms of helping that are not enabling, not unhealthy, not even codependent. I also feel like maybe this was written a long time ago, because no Dr I have ever talked to has suggested the concept of rock bottom as being the way to go. Its called a myth. The doctor presented the concept to me by saying if a person is not responding to normal consequences then there is likely a problem. Sure the more it piles up there is hope someone will stop and realize whats causing the damage and make changes. But it often doesnt work this way at all. Thats why treatment is so important as soon as possible, all while knowing it may need to be repeated many times because susbtance use disorder is hard to treat. This post to me just minimizes addiction. One day I will just wake up and will have had enough and I will fix it all on my own. Not very realistic in my opinion .


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am an addict. You can't make me clean, though I know it is what you want for me to be.
What I want is for you to be healthy.

But until I want it. I won't be.
Yes, I know this

You can't love me clean, because until I learn to love myself. I won't be.
I know I cant love you clean. That doesnt even make sense exactly because you have a medical issue. Its called substance use disorder. Simply loving yourself most likely wont be enough either. But go on....

I know you must wonder how can I learn to love myself when I am caught up in a life style of self-hatred and self destruction.
Its nice to hear that you have insight into how your lifestyle is unhealthy.

I can learn from my own experiences. I can learn from the things that happen to me along the path of my own mistakes.
How is that working for you so far? What I see is that your getting worse, not better.

I can learn by being allowed to suffer the consequences of my choices.
You are being allowed to suffer the consequences of your actions. Do you want me to recap a few of the consequences for you? Involvement with the police, dwindling savings, living alone because I moved out.

Life has a funny way of teaching us the lessons we need to learn.
Hmmm forgive me if Im wrong, but even with all this you are still using. I cant see where you have learned anything from your consequences because your brain is not functioning normally. Your reward center is all messed up.

I know it devastates you to watch me hurting myself.
yes

I know you want to jump in and save me.
Is this a drowning metaphor? When someone is drowning, they often struggle and feel desperate. They are likely to grab onto anyone jumping into the water and may pull them under with them. So no instead of jumping in, Im looking for a lifeguard who is trained in water rescue.

This helps ease your pain, but I don't think you understand just how damaging it is to me.
Are we still on the water metaphor, or no?

You see, although I look and sound like your loved one. I am not. That person is in a self imposed prison way deep down inside of my being and what you see before you is an addict ruled and reigned by my addiction.
So is this conversation Im having with the addict brain? Well I believe my husband is still in there and has a voice.
Sometimes I can tell he is there. So you appear to have a huge ego dear addict.

I am an addict and my main focus is to feed the addiction.
Its like water or air isnt it? You think you need it to live

Every effort you put forth in the name of "helping me" falls prey to my addiction giving it more power to shackle me down a little more each time. I feed my addiction enough. So please don't help me.
Oh little addict brain you are trying to manipulate me.
I have a feeling you dont even know what Im doing to help you. So I will tell you: Im taking care of myself. I searched out an therapist who deals with addiction so I could learn about it. Ive been talking about whats going on in our home, telling someone about your behaviors when under the influence. Ive reached out to your parents. And Im gaining strength to reach out to mine. Ive even talked about the abuse and have sat in support groups to see if they would help me. You see for a while I was shocked and confused and I did let you get away with unacceptable behavior. I thought you would learn and stop all on your own. But I dont feel that way now. You need actual professional help. So Im going to create a village of support around me, and fill it with people and professionals who will be there to support you too. IM SURE THE ADDICT IN YOU HATES THIS

The only way for the real me to get free is to be free. FREE to fall as far down as I need to go in order to find the strength to fight and find my way back. To break free.
Well first off, Im not stopping you from falling. And at this point you are lucky because you have a job, money and a lot of freedom to do as you please. But if you are trying to glamorize falling then it only proves to me your mind is really sick. The further you fall the more you will lose, the sicker you will become. Your brain may not be functioning all that well now, but it will get worse because substance use disorder causes progressive changes in the brain. You may even end up with alcoholic dementia.


How can or will I ever be able to get clean you wonder ...
yes i do wonder this often

The same way I gave myself over to my addiction is the same way I can give myself over to my recovery. BY MYSELF.
In your case, I doubt it. I feel you need help. But you dont really want help do you? Its easier to carry on as normal thinking one day it will be enough and you will just wake up and stop. See thats what I thought initially too. That is more likely to happen in the earlier stages, not the later. Youve blown past consequences that would have stopped many people. How do you think your going to stop on your own? Do you have a plan thats deeper than - I will do it myself?


By not enabling me you will be allowing me to reach "rock bottom".
Im not enabling your addiction and I already told you I found a therapist to help me figure all this out. Enough with the rock bottom stuff. Although everyone has a bottom you seem to be really stuck on this idea. I had a bottom too. I admitted I was in a mess and didnt know what to do. That is when I reached out for help. I have yet to hear one word from you about getting help. Its all about how you will just magically reach a point and help yourself.

By trusting the process
By trusting your process. Of the addict brain. I dont think so.

you move over and allow me to find my own way back.
The manipulation doesnt work. Dont let the addict brain lie to you husband buried deep inside. Im certainly not doing anything to prevent you from rising up and squashing down the addict brain - even if its only for a time long enough to say : I need help, cant do this alone. And I will say, I can support you but I cant fix it for you. But I will help you find proper care. And hopefully once that starts you will get stronger and rise up from addiction.


You see, it is in the fight to get free that I will find myself. It is in the fight that I will learn to love myself and the more I love myself ... the more I will start to do to better myself, but I myself, must do this.
I agree. You can flip this around. Change your life.
Love yourself, love others freely and honestly, create dreams and pursue them. But still you are not saying you need any professional help. And past history shows you have been unable to do this alone. When are you going to get it?

I am aware that when I use I am playing Russian roulette with my life. I know this, but that is a chance I take when I use. The addict in me is willing to take that chance in the name of getting high.
The addict part of you is mentally ill. The pleasure centers of your brain are all screwed up, understanding the consequences of actions is not something you are able to fully do right now unfortunately.

Rock bottom is but a circumstance away. I can't reach it if you are blocking the entrance.
Thinking to myself. This addict is really trying to put on the blame game. We arent even living together. How the heck am I blocking his entry or exit? and he is very longwinded too. Im getting tired.

I know you love me and you only want what's best for me ... but that very love keeps you blind sighted to just what truly is best for me and causes you to act from/out of fear and emotions.
Well again, that is why I went out and got help for myself. I am calm and Im not acting out of emotion anymore.


Please for my sake don't try to stop me... just let me go ... move out of the way and let me fall as far down as my addiction is going to take me ... as far down as I have to to reach rock bottom. Don't try to cushion the fall. Just believe in me and trust the process. Pray for me that when I do hit ... it is not with the impact that leaves me for dead (I know that is your greatest fear), but if it comes to that, be sure to tell my story so that others might learn from my mistakes and live.
Thinking to myself... he may already have dementia.
I wonder if this conversation qualifies him as being in need of legal intervention to force treatment?

But saying, I do pray for you. I dont believe in the concept of rock bottom. Its outdated and not recommended as a treatment plan these days. If you saw a doctor then you would know this too. Yes, you need to want to get better. Right now its obvious you dont. But I dont need your BS guilt trip. Nope Im still going to build up that village of support around me. And when my husband rises up from this manipulative monster that is speaking to me now. then we will all be there to support him, help him find recovery. Oh and one last thing. I have heard the many stories of people who have died from addiction. And a lot of them died trying to find their rock bottom. I think that might be why this concept isnt encouraged so much these days. Really addict brain, get the internet if you wont see a doctor. I only came by the house to get a pair of shoes from the closet.

DontRemember

I was in bed last night thinking,well trying to, about what my letter would have been when I was in "cyclone/loop mindset" and it's been 2-2.5yrs? and I think i've either blocked/forgot that horrible experience..or.. Maybe it's that I was just so confused/messed up mentally I couldn't put it into words? I DO know I will never allow myself to go back to that mindest again.

OpheliaKatz

The whole "rock bottom" idea... . So many addicts don't have a bottom. Some can stop. Some can't. Treatment is important. Unfortunately they have to seek treatment for themselves otherwise it won't stick. Problem with not having a "rock bottom"... a moment where you think, "this is it, I need help and I'm going to seek it," is that... you're talking about someone who isn't chasing a high so much as chasing death. I often wished there was an institution that could have taken my exAH where they stuck him a straight jacket so that he couldn't keep trying to die, at least that way he would be safe... and sober. However, that's no way to live. The only thing some people feel they have is the freedom to choose to live or not.

DontRemember

I don't 'think' that it's "they(me) don't have a bottom".. I do KNOW if I had never signed up here and then been 'forced' into AA by the court a couple years later, that I could have very well "missed my bottom" and then actually think there was 'no way out now' so, continue on the path to hell. Stuff's crazy! And I'm not making any excuses for the addict/me.

Edit: Basically too numb,dumb,selfish and cold to give sh*t about ANYTHING anymore. Walking dead.

trailmix

I wanted to post on this thread again, just now getting back to it. When I originally skimmed that letter I assumed it was written by someone just out of rehab.

In fact the author has been on both sides. She was in a long marriage to an Alcoholic and she then became one and has since "recovered".

As she is already recovered she wanted to write what she would have written when returning from a binge.

I don't know, i'm still not really sure about this one. On the one hand I can absolutely see this as self-serving.

On the other hand, if you look at it as a person with mental illness asking for help it sheds a different light.

I just don't know to be honest. Mental illness IS selfish. People get hurt. It all goes back to distancing and taking care of your own side of the street right?

Interesting discussion!

tomsteve

heres what caught my attention, but im moving the second part to the first:
I’m scared and I don’t want you to tell me what to do, or give me an ultimatum.
Here’s what I need you to do. First, tell me you believe in me. Second, don’t just plug me back into my daily routine and expect me to get it right this time. I’ve repeated this cycle a thousand times. It always ends exactly the same. Can’t you see that?
__________________________________________________ _________________________
dont tell me what to do or give me an ultimatum, but heres what i NEED you to do because im not ready to accept accountability for my recovery.

aliciagr

aliciagr

In terms of seeking treatment I like what my therapist told me. Its not about someone doing the legwork and finding treatment on their own. Its more about being able to admit a problem. having a minimal level of willingness to participate in treatment. Especially in a rehab setting, or therapy because there are often professionals who work with motivation. If a person can stay sober long enough in a safe environment then a persons outlook can change. As was stated in those letters, the person deep inside is able to get stronger and the addict voices can get weaker.

I personally dont even think its really safe for someone in bad shape to pick their own treatment unless they have no other choice. There are a lot of options and it seems stuff is changing a lot from years prior. Plus along with addiction, some people have other physical, emotional, psychological issues. Not all treatment addresses these things.

Dont Remember

Im sorry you were court ordered, but Im so happy you are doing well now. My husband was initially court ordered to get treatment too. He was making plans to go to a treatment center on his own, but he went on a binge shortly before. Very common Im told. It finally ended him up in therapy and hes been doing good even with the legal incentives now long removed. I wish it hadnt come to that, but it did move the process along.

LoveMeNow

NytePassion wrote the second letter. She is a recovering addict and has an amazing testimony! I would recommend her threads to anyone wanting to learn from the perspective of a recovering addict.!

Alicia? You seem so familiar! Did you used to post under a different username?

aliciagr

Nope. But Ive been here off and on for a couple years.

OpheliaKatz

I think the reason that I feel some people "don't have" a rock bottom is because there are ways to get around court orders... . My AH knows how to do this. So there's no way to force him to stop. You signed up here, which is good -- that was a choice you made because you wanted to stop. I would be seriously surprised if he signed up for his own sobriety as he thinks that this type of support is run by cults (his words, not mine). I have no idea what he has to lose before he decides that enough is enough -- from my point of view, he's lost everything but his life. I feel really sad for people who don't want to stop, who can just keep going for years, blaming other people for killing themselves. There are people like this. I was married to one. I don't think he has a rock bottom, but it would be great if he did! I think that he needs to be involuntarily committed to a detox and rehabilitation hospital (but where I live, there is no such thing... sadly).

DontRemember

Dear.. I was drinking the day/night before court! I cried like a damn baby when I 'shared' in AA the first few weeks. It still took me a few months to wrap my head around things.. I've had vodka in my cup at AA,but I listened still. It's taken me almost 3yrs to get comfortable in being sober and 'own' my crap. I'm not looking for validation, I just NEVER thought "it'd get/be me." It did..I let a lot of outside influences in years ago and I don't put any blame on that/those, It was ME that allowed it,but 'it' got to me and I lost it. I'm just glad to be back on this side of sanity.

Soconfused21

Please for my sake don't try to stop me... just let me go ... move out of the way and let me fall as far down as my addiction is going to take me ... as far down as I have to to reach rock bottom. Don't try to cushion the fall. Just believe in me and trust the process. Pray for me that when I do hit ... it is not with the impact that leaves me for dead (I know that is your greatest fear), but if it comes to that, be sure to tell my story so that others might learn from my mistakes and live.

Passion
Recovering addict[/QUOTE]

I need some advice about "rock bottom." My EXAH was at what I thought was "rock bottom" when he was in an severe accident a (year ago and a week before his daughter's wedding), which lead him to surgeries from all the injuries, a hospital stay, a long recovery, and side effects he will have for the rest of his life. He has chosen the alcohol instead of me or slowing down and getting help. He knows he has a problem, but he doesn't think it is as severe as it truly is. Will he ever wake up and realize it or will it kill him in the end?

He picked alcohol over my daughter's wedding and then acted like it wasn't a big deal. He picked a fight that would end our relationship a few weeks before that thinking this was his ticket out of the wedding so he could stay at the music festival he was at and party like a rock star. In the beginning when he didn't even know me, he fought harder to keep our relationship together. I don't understand why and I never will. I feel he wasted so many years and lead me on to believe we had a future together. I'm so torn and heartbroken thinking that this man truly loved me. Boy was I ever wrong.....

schnappi99

"rock bottom" is tricky. I was listening to an account related by the husband of an alcoholic wife. All the years of hospital stays, drama, scenes, etc didn't amount to her rock bottom, what finally made an impression on her was she passed out and burned the Thanksgiving turkey. It takes what it takes and it seems that sometimes people find no bottom and die an addict's death. Its probably not appropriate to assess what is or is not someone else's rock bottom, but in recovery perhaps the addict might be able to relate what theirs was.

Soconfused21

I forgot to mention he almost died in the severe accident. I guess it hurts those of us who love him more. Looking like death in all the wedding pictures and ruining his daughter's day still doesn't mean anything to him. His daughter and I tell him he needs help, but he's not ready. Sad!

I really enjoy this site as it's helping me to slowly understand I am not the only one suffering. Thanks for the reply.