Alcohol dependent sib acting up again.
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Alcohol dependent sib acting up again.
Hey, all. My alcohol-dependent sib, who lives with my aged mother, has been causing some trouble.
Again.
They both have dementia. His is alcohol related, hers from old age.
He gets impatient with her asking him the same questions over and over, a symptom of her condition, and he gets snappish with her.
Basically, he does not recognize that she is 91 and mentally frail. He thinks she is the mother he had 20 years ago, who has always taken care of him and enabled his drinking.
Yesterday, her personal care aide disclosed that he speaks disrespectfully to my mom, and she wanted me to know.
This isn't new information. My other sib and I have had to periodically and forcefully remind him that my mother's house is not his, that he lives there because she wants him there so she isn't alone, that he has no say in the running of the house, and that he is to speak to her kindly and with respect, or he is out.
He doesn't like anyone coming to the house, and tries to undo all of the systems we have put into place for her so she can remain comfortably in her own home for as long as it is safe. He wants to be able to drink without eyes on him.
He tried to fire the yard work guy, who promptly called the person who pays him, my other sib, which led to a shouting match between the brothers.
He has alienated one house cleaner with his stupid, boorish behavior. She just stopped showing up.
So, today, I am meeting my other sib at the house, and we will confront him and tell him to knock that crappy behavior off.
He is not physical with her, nor do I expect he will be. I am there every day. I watch them both closely.
This isn't a good situation, I know. My mom likes having him there, even though he is a giant a**hat.
Gah.
Again.
They both have dementia. His is alcohol related, hers from old age.
He gets impatient with her asking him the same questions over and over, a symptom of her condition, and he gets snappish with her.
Basically, he does not recognize that she is 91 and mentally frail. He thinks she is the mother he had 20 years ago, who has always taken care of him and enabled his drinking.
Yesterday, her personal care aide disclosed that he speaks disrespectfully to my mom, and she wanted me to know.
This isn't new information. My other sib and I have had to periodically and forcefully remind him that my mother's house is not his, that he lives there because she wants him there so she isn't alone, that he has no say in the running of the house, and that he is to speak to her kindly and with respect, or he is out.
He doesn't like anyone coming to the house, and tries to undo all of the systems we have put into place for her so she can remain comfortably in her own home for as long as it is safe. He wants to be able to drink without eyes on him.
He tried to fire the yard work guy, who promptly called the person who pays him, my other sib, which led to a shouting match between the brothers.
He has alienated one house cleaner with his stupid, boorish behavior. She just stopped showing up.
So, today, I am meeting my other sib at the house, and we will confront him and tell him to knock that crappy behavior off.
He is not physical with her, nor do I expect he will be. I am there every day. I watch them both closely.
This isn't a good situation, I know. My mom likes having him there, even though he is a giant a**hat.
Gah.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Maybe it's time to have Adult Protective Services take a look at the situation? I can't say at this point whether he's causing her more harm than good, and it sounds like you're struggling with the same thoughts. Sooner or later one of the caregivers or others may call them in anyway, and an objective decision maker might be useful in this situation. If she has dementia, a guardianship might be appropriate.
Have you looked into Assisted Living for your mom? I don't know what finances are like for you and your other sibs, but my folks love their place--there's a nursing station right down the hall, it's a nice apartment (not like a nursing home)--they have their dog and everything. Someone takes care of housecleaning and they have a nice dining hall and lots of activities.
Maybe that's not a realistic option for you. But it sounds as if brother has repeatedly crossed the boundaries you've made, and at your mom's age and with her condition, sometimes you have to take action for her own well-being.
Have you looked into Assisted Living for your mom? I don't know what finances are like for you and your other sibs, but my folks love their place--there's a nursing station right down the hall, it's a nice apartment (not like a nursing home)--they have their dog and everything. Someone takes care of housecleaning and they have a nice dining hall and lots of activities.
Maybe that's not a realistic option for you. But it sounds as if brother has repeatedly crossed the boundaries you've made, and at your mom's age and with her condition, sometimes you have to take action for her own well-being.
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
Hi, Lexie. You have pinpointed it exactly. I may take your suggestion about adult protective services.
My older sib is not my mother's guardian, but he has her power of attorney, and could become her guardian very easily.
As to assisted living, we know that time is coming and coming fast. She has some savings, and I have located a place near me that would be ideal.
My only concern is the dementia spinning out of control if and when we move her. I have seen it happen with friends' parents, who are reasonably okay in familiar surroundings, then suffer from disorientation and a greater confusion when moved from which they do not recover.
I'm afraid that is what would happen with m mom.
But, yeah, that day is coming, I believe.
My older sib is not my mother's guardian, but he has her power of attorney, and could become her guardian very easily.
As to assisted living, we know that time is coming and coming fast. She has some savings, and I have located a place near me that would be ideal.
My only concern is the dementia spinning out of control if and when we move her. I have seen it happen with friends' parents, who are reasonably okay in familiar surroundings, then suffer from disorientation and a greater confusion when moved from which they do not recover.
I'm afraid that is what would happen with m mom.
But, yeah, that day is coming, I believe.
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
I should also state that 90 percen of the time they mosey along okay. We evicted him from the house once before, and she was miserable. Always worried, always asking us--before dementia, mind--when he could move back with her.
He sobered up and was healthy and clear-headed, so we finally gave in and let him return, knowing that the odds of his staying sober without a program weren't great.
He stayed clean for acouple of years, and all was well. He was truly as helpful as he could be, given that he is a selfish, self-centered chucklehead.
Sadly, he picked up again, and, well, you can guess the rest.
I work my Al-Anon program hard when around him, andI call him on his behavior all the time. It's a tough one.
He sobered up and was healthy and clear-headed, so we finally gave in and let him return, knowing that the odds of his staying sober without a program weren't great.
He stayed clean for acouple of years, and all was well. He was truly as helpful as he could be, given that he is a selfish, self-centered chucklehead.
Sadly, he picked up again, and, well, you can guess the rest.
I work my Al-Anon program hard when around him, andI call him on his behavior all the time. It's a tough one.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Maudcat, I feel for you, I went through dementia with my dad and towards the end he didn’t even remember who I was. From what I have seen dementia patients are either passive or they are aggressive and that aggression can become worse and turn physical. Fortunately my dad was very passive and didn’t become agitated or aggressive.
I think the big worry is that if right now today your brother shows signs of dementia with aggression it’s only going to get worse. Your mom may have wanted him there living with her in the past because he was her “care receiver” and she was able to care take as that was what she knew to do.
But things are different today, her mind is not in that same place and you and your sibling need to continue to advocate for her and her safety which included her emotional safety from verbal abuse. When the hired caregivers(aids, cleaning personal, lawn care, etc) no longer wish to deal with the unpleasantness of an alcoholic also suffering from dementia the whole dynamics of the situation need to be addressed on a level greater then forcefully having to remind your (not in his right mind) brother on the proper way to treat his own mother. It’s time for him to be removed from the situation. I would also think Lexie’s suggestion of contacting Adult Protective Services is a great idea, get some professional input on what options you may have available to you.
Ideally the outcome would be for your mom to remain in her home with care givers around her in a peaceful none stressful environment. And to have your brother placed in a facility that is prepared to address his growing aggression of alcohol induced dementia. Both will be safe and both will receive proper care.
And your mom will adapt rather quickly to him being gone, you’ll be surprised.
I do feel for you and your siblings dealing with dementia isn’t easy.
((hugs))
I think the big worry is that if right now today your brother shows signs of dementia with aggression it’s only going to get worse. Your mom may have wanted him there living with her in the past because he was her “care receiver” and she was able to care take as that was what she knew to do.
But things are different today, her mind is not in that same place and you and your sibling need to continue to advocate for her and her safety which included her emotional safety from verbal abuse. When the hired caregivers(aids, cleaning personal, lawn care, etc) no longer wish to deal with the unpleasantness of an alcoholic also suffering from dementia the whole dynamics of the situation need to be addressed on a level greater then forcefully having to remind your (not in his right mind) brother on the proper way to treat his own mother. It’s time for him to be removed from the situation. I would also think Lexie’s suggestion of contacting Adult Protective Services is a great idea, get some professional input on what options you may have available to you.
Ideally the outcome would be for your mom to remain in her home with care givers around her in a peaceful none stressful environment. And to have your brother placed in a facility that is prepared to address his growing aggression of alcohol induced dementia. Both will be safe and both will receive proper care.
And your mom will adapt rather quickly to him being gone, you’ll be surprised.
I do feel for you and your siblings dealing with dementia isn’t easy.
((hugs))
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Well, remember that dementia, like alcoholism, is progressive. It could very well be that the folks who deteriorated after the move were headed for that anyway.
The place where my folks live has a "memory care unit" specifically for residents with Alzheimer's or other dementia. You might see if there are places around with something like that.
Also, let me make one other recommendation. We hired a "Senior Move Manager" (professional association here: https://www.nasmm.org), who made the move SO much easier. Honestly, we could not have managed the relocation as quickly and smoothly without her. I can PM you the name of the franchise we used, which provides specialized training. They have a code of ethics and are bonded/insured. Ours came out and created a furniture plan using the floor plan at the Assisted Living place, helped my stepmom decide which items of furniture to take with her, what clothing and other items were important to her, etc. She also took care of selling/disposing of anything left behind (proceeds of the sale knocked the bill down to a thousand bucks or so), arranged for cleaners to come in and clean the house after they were out, worked with the realtors to get it ready for sale, etc. I cannot say enough good things about them. Worth every cent. And they are sensitive to the emotional difficulty of older people leaving their home--very kind and gentle.
The place where my folks live has a "memory care unit" specifically for residents with Alzheimer's or other dementia. You might see if there are places around with something like that.
Also, let me make one other recommendation. We hired a "Senior Move Manager" (professional association here: https://www.nasmm.org), who made the move SO much easier. Honestly, we could not have managed the relocation as quickly and smoothly without her. I can PM you the name of the franchise we used, which provides specialized training. They have a code of ethics and are bonded/insured. Ours came out and created a furniture plan using the floor plan at the Assisted Living place, helped my stepmom decide which items of furniture to take with her, what clothing and other items were important to her, etc. She also took care of selling/disposing of anything left behind (proceeds of the sale knocked the bill down to a thousand bucks or so), arranged for cleaners to come in and clean the house after they were out, worked with the realtors to get it ready for sale, etc. I cannot say enough good things about them. Worth every cent. And they are sensitive to the emotional difficulty of older people leaving their home--very kind and gentle.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
There is some confusion with change but they can and do adapt rather quickly. Sun downing syndrome or late-day confusion is normal and grows quickly on its own no matter where they are located.
Recently friends of mine had to put his mother into a facility that specializes with dementia patients because they just could no longer provide the kind of care she needed. They held off for the longest time thinking she would go downhill fast if moved out of her home, which was the only environment she had known for 50 plus years. And they were surprised to see how much she was thriving on a social level in the facility. She was talking with other patients, playing cards something she hasn’t done in years and was enjoying the activity around her as opposed to the isolation she had in her own home. They realized it’s what they should have done 2 years ago.
Recently friends of mine had to put his mother into a facility that specializes with dementia patients because they just could no longer provide the kind of care she needed. They held off for the longest time thinking she would go downhill fast if moved out of her home, which was the only environment she had known for 50 plus years. And they were surprised to see how much she was thriving on a social level in the facility. She was talking with other patients, playing cards something she hasn’t done in years and was enjoying the activity around her as opposed to the isolation she had in her own home. They realized it’s what they should have done 2 years ago.
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Maudcat...I just want to convey, to you, how much empathy that I have for you and your family, having to face this....
It is something that so many of us have had to face, and it is always, always very hard....
I can only underline to get as much help as you can from anywhere you can.....
It is something that so many of us have had to face, and it is always, always very hard....
I can only underline to get as much help as you can from anywhere you can.....
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Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
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" we will confront him and tell him to knock that crappy behavior off."
PLEASE don't have any expectations of a practicing alcoholic changing because he was told to knock off the behavior.
PLEASE don't have any expectations of a practicing alcoholic changing because he was told to knock off the behavior.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I am going to say something gently.
I have a family member with dementia. One of the few silver linings is that even though there is anxiety sometimes, it has gotten to a place that they don't necessarily remember why and it passes more quickly than it usto. This makes changes a little easier.
I get the fears and the reason you don't want to break routine, however, abuse, physical or emotional, is unacceptable.
Many, many hugs.
I have a family member with dementia. One of the few silver linings is that even though there is anxiety sometimes, it has gotten to a place that they don't necessarily remember why and it passes more quickly than it usto. This makes changes a little easier.
I get the fears and the reason you don't want to break routine, however, abuse, physical or emotional, is unacceptable.
Many, many hugs.
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Posts: 7,067
Hey, all. Quick update: older sib and I confronted alcoholic sib about his s**t.
Denied it, of course, but we pushed until he allowed as how sometimes he is impatient with mom. He was, for him, contrite, though there was back and forth about how he tells her stuff and five minutes later she asks him again.
Well, that's dementia.
Bottom line, there are eyes on her and on him. Act accordingly.
I spoke to older sib about getting protective services involved, and he jumped on it as a potential way get him out of the house.
So we are pursuing that.
I don't feel we solved much, and I don't feel great about any of it.
Mom was upset. Defended him to the sky.
Arrrgghhhh.
Thanks, all, for your input and support.
Denied it, of course, but we pushed until he allowed as how sometimes he is impatient with mom. He was, for him, contrite, though there was back and forth about how he tells her stuff and five minutes later she asks him again.
Well, that's dementia.
Bottom line, there are eyes on her and on him. Act accordingly.
I spoke to older sib about getting protective services involved, and he jumped on it as a potential way get him out of the house.
So we are pursuing that.
I don't feel we solved much, and I don't feel great about any of it.
Mom was upset. Defended him to the sky.
Arrrgghhhh.
Thanks, all, for your input and support.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Sounds like a teensy bit of progress. APS might say something like, "She's safe to stay here ONLY as long as he does not live there." Maybe put a limit on visits, too. Like an hour a day, with the caregiver to notify police or APS if he becomes abusive, shows up drunk, or refuses to leave when it's time. Having that objective third party laying down the law might ease the family tensions just a bit.
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Join Date: Nov 2015
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No advice, because I'm just plain clueless on what to do with my own parents, because they are stubborn as goats.
I'm afraid they are going to literally burn the house down before they accept help.
That said, I'll raise my mug of ginger/tumeric tea towards your direction, as a fellow "How am I going to take care of my parents?" comrade in arms.
I'm afraid they are going to literally burn the house down before they accept help.
That said, I'll raise my mug of ginger/tumeric tea towards your direction, as a fellow "How am I going to take care of my parents?" comrade in arms.
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Maud, your mother does sound like a strong candidate for moving to an assisted living facility. We moved Mum some years ago when she was showing signs of dementia. ATM your Mom actually needs your brother, whether it be through loneliness, or actual help with things. He's feeling the strain too.
If you find a good place for her she'll have most of her daily needs taken care of and a great social life. It's better if she goes when she can take advantage of the fun parts of the experience. I just hope she's open to the idea and that your AB's POA doesn't allow him to prevent it.
If you find a good place for her she'll have most of her daily needs taken care of and a great social life. It's better if she goes when she can take advantage of the fun parts of the experience. I just hope she's open to the idea and that your AB's POA doesn't allow him to prevent it.
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