Hummer

Hi all,

Plodding on here with my separation from AH. He does occasionally ask me to reconsider my decision (which is for him to get properly sober, minimum of a year before we can have conversation about possible reconciliation) but I stick to my guns and Ido feel stronger this month than last so I guess the progress is unfolding.

My husband is in my hometown this weekend to visit his 3 adult children and I have agreed to have a coffee/chat with him on Sunday....
I am apprehensive as I know it will be more difficult to remain strong in person. He has sent me some messages to arrange meeting up etc and tells me he is feeling sick with anxiety and feels as though he's having a panic attack - he's with his family and I'm not sure why he's telling me these things. I said I hoped he felt bette soon and try have a nice time with his children. He is staying at his eldest daughter's flat while he is in town.

He has a couple of months of sobriety under is belt now and is at AA meetings many times a week. He almost felt tempted to drink last weekend but picked up phone to AA friends instead, so that's good.
It's hard to believe that he would consider ever consuming alcohol again after being in ICU and coma for 10 days just two months ago but I guess the mental part of the addiction doesn't just disappear and will take more time and work. He told me he wished that he had gotten sober sooner then we wouldn't be in this mess - he fails to ever mention the infidelities (albeit non physical cheating.
I have told him in the past and when we separated that the lack of trust due to him speaking to other women online were possibly harder to overcome than the addiction.

Does anyone believe that he would no longer be chatting online to women as he seemed to only do it when he was drunk and alone?
He did physically cheat on his first wife so not a great track record but vehemently denies ever physically cheating during our five year marriage. Would working the AA steps correct this behaviour?

We did have an argument about finances a few weeks back as he had cut some of my income. After a few hours he apologised and reinstated almost all of what I was due, minus a quarter as he needed some cash for big tax bill apparently even though he easily earns six times my salary.

I agreed to this anyway as I have a solicitor appointment next week after the hols.

Also, I've been to two al anon meetings, they are very warm and supportive groups and I feel very welcome, but the people there have either been widowed or are working with their recovered alcoholics and some are living with relapsing alcoholics and talk in a very caring way about their SO. I definitely feel like the odd one out and guilty that I'm not trying to make things work as much as these people seem to be.
Like I've given up on a sick person and he's doing all he can to get well.
I come home with mixed feelings but enjoy the group support, I will continue to go for a couple of months to see what unfolds.

Would love to hear from you all with any views or comments

Maudcat

Hi, Hummer. I think you are wise to keep going to Al-Anon. Maybe try a different meeting to get a dfferent perspective. Each meeting has its own sensibility.
As to meeting your x, could be a good opportunity to see how you are both doing, up close.
Stay with your plan. Two months , while laudable, is very early sobriety. Peace.

RDBplus3

Hi Hum,
I drank for 40 years, then struggled for a long time to 'get Sober & Free' after my wife said she didn't want me coming home 'drinking' anymore. That started a long process. A lot of my behaviors were alcohol induced, or alcohol motivated, including online sex sites. However, the ONLY thing that eventually got me Sober & Free was actually working the 12 Steps of AA. Just hanging around meetings was definitely a positive influence, and was the only way I was exposed to the Steps, But My Extreme Self-Gratifying Behaviors did not get revealed to me, and did not have a chance of being changed, until I worked the 12 Steps.

However, thru doing the WORK of the 12 Steps, everything in me was transformed in ways I could never have imagined, and YES, my behaviors changed Because of the Transformation.

So, from my perspective, I suggest being cautious, because even though the concept of Alcoholism being a 'disease' may be problematic, in me it was DEFINITELY a condition that caused a disease of Perception, and a condition of being diseased Spiritually.

So, my suggestion (based only on my experience) would be to consider asking him if he is actually Working thru the 12 Steps of AA with a Sponsor. If he is, maybe see if he and his Sponsor would be willing to meet with you periodically as he works thru the Steps, and have discussion meetings to see how ' the rubber is meeting the road'.

And Pray ... I suggest prayers asking God to bring 'internal visions' of how He would enact positive paths of Renewal, starting from Here, and developing thru a process of Renewal. It can actually be a fantastic adventure, being directly involved with God, traversing thru life on an unfolding process ...

RDBplus3 ... Happy, Joyous and FREE ... and I KNOW U and your Hubby can B 2

maia1234

Hummer,
Glad you are taking care of you.

His sobriety is just that, his. In my opinion I wouldn't want to hear about it. He has a long haul to a year of sobriety. Everyone on this forum says that you can recognize someone who is working a program. It's about growing up, sobering up and working a program. They lie so often, its hard to know what to believe anyway.

I would discuss important stuff only. Reconciliation is off the table till you see the year. Don't negotiate. Don't let him give you the sob story about how rough life is. They say here no contact protects the heart. It will hurt when you see him and that is what he is hoping on. A couple months of sobriety is nothing in the big picture.

Keep it business and walk away. I am sure you gave him more then one chance to get his shxt together. More will always be revealed with an addict. Good luck, and let us know how the meeting goes.

FeelingGreat

Hi Hummer, you seem to know a lot of details about his recovery, and that can only be that he's confiding in you and giving you the details. It may partly be habit, but it's creating a reality that you're still in a partnership with him.

You're looking for strength for when you meet him in person, but I think it would be better to focus on detaching. You don't have to travel with him in his journey of recovery because that's his thing.

I know from experience that you have to break free from old relationships before you can really focus on your future. Sometimes old relationships are like a comfortable old jumper, and hard to leave and you need to consciously resist the habit of putting it on.

As for the online women; it's easy, it's always available, and nobody need know, so if I was betting I'd say he's probably still doing it. He can tell himself it's not that serious.

garnetwaters

I am a little more hardened than many here since my XH was an alcoholic, a drug addict, and a serial cheater. I don't know you two, but from reading what you wrote, his 2 months sobriety and a few AA meetings seem like he is just throwing you a cookie--doing the bare minimum to get you back. Is he just going to meetings, or is he really working the program? 2 months is a fraction of the year you required before even considering reconciling. I would proceed with caution.

I am sorry to say that the coffee chat on Easter Sunday may be another attempt to manipulate you into changing your mind. I could be wrong, but seeing him is going to make it harder for you to stay strong and he knows that. Again, proceed with caution.

Cutting your income, then reinstating part of it after ya'll talked is another red flag that is is trying to control you. I'll say it again, proceed with caution.

Finally, I am sorry to say, the red flags of a cheater are also there. It's rarely just online and rarely just the previous relationship as I found out the hard way. I sound like a broken record, but please, proceed with caution.

You are in a vulnerable place right now. 2 months is not very long. Not long enough for you to be thinking clearly and not long enough for him to truly get sober. Have a plan for Sunday. Know the red flags of control and manipulation. Have your boundaries clearly defined for yourself before going.

LexieCat

My thoughts are (a) meeting with him isn't a terrific idea and (b) when you are officially separated, and contemplating divorce, it isn't "cheating" to see other people. That's my own take. This isn't the same as your simply being separated for business reasons, where you reasonably expect each other to abide by marriage vows.

I'd second the thought that you won't accomplish anything after only two months other than to confuse yourself more. I'd suggest holding off to see how things look after a good, long time. By then, you might not even be inclined to put yourself through another round with him.

Refiner

I totally agree with RDP's post that it takes that and MORE to get past being a cheater let alone a drinker. Unless the person transforms their being via heavy duty therapy programs and spiritual guidance, once a cheater, always a cheater to me. How do you know it wasn't physical cheating while married to you? When any of my girlfriends are messing with a married man and they end up marrying then he cheats on her I'm always amazed at their surprise.

Tjunction

Hi

Congrats on the good progress. It's hard to do what you did but you are following through.

I'm going to express what I'm really feeling when reading your post. It's going to be more on the negative side but it's good to have all opinions before making a decision.

I would say if you are already doubting yourself and know he can sway your progress when you meet up in person, then don't put that pressure on yourself of set back the good work already done. Maybe go with a friend as backup if you really must or even send someone in your place. What you feel is the most important regardless of what's expected or the standard or advice given. Your heart and intuition will tell you what you need to do. We always seem to downplay it with addicts. When you can sit face to face and have any kind of conversation and still be in the mindset you need too when you leave again then you are ready.

Regarding the affairs, if you are still unsure then there is no trust whether he did something "guilty" or not. There is an underlying issue why you feel this way still. You feel unsafe to open your heart and that is the position to work from. Don't force yourself to go with well meaning friends/world is saying. Listen to yourself and own it. "You did abcde and I can't be in a relantionship where those boundaries are crossed its makes me unsafe to move forward with my feelings". even if it's "just chatting online" or " visiting a good female friend because you are heartless cactus not worthy of water in the driest desert" or whatever foul words they normally use (insert eye roll - lol)

Not everyone heals themselves or along with the addict in the same way. You don't have to be in the life of the addict for either of you too to improve for two better. Yes addicts wants to try to save it afterwards but let them do what it takes not just what they feel they are entitled too. They did the damage. It's their issue what happens afterwards.

Hope I'm not harsh but I wanted to give direct answer excluding fluffiness and all things work out great and exactly as we want because they don't. Often.

Hummer

Thanks to you all for the wisdom, experience and encouragement - things feels so much better once you get things aired on here.

I will most definitely proceed with upmost caution and I will not change my mind about being at least a year apart. FeelingGreat mentioned that I know an awful lot about his recovery and that is true so I may need to ask him to lessen the contact further.

Thanks so much to you all

SmallButMighty

I am in agreeance with what everyone else has posted.

I am only bringing this up because you said you'd like to hear any views or comments...

A few months ago you told us, that his own daughter told you, she saw him go into a hotel room, while on vacation, with another woman, while he was married to you.... if I haven't forgotten about that I am sure that you haven't either.

A drunk is a drunk and a cheater is a cheater. Two separate issues. I don't doubt that when drinking, inhibitions are lowered and morals are more easily over looked, but drinking doesn't make an honest mate cheat. Being a cheater makes them cheat and alcohol is a handy dandy excuse for their poor behavior.

For me trust is imperative to any healthy relationship. Marriage, friendship, coworker etc. My marriage to my AXH ultimately failed because I couldn't trust him...and he never cheated on me... if he had my decision to leave would have been so much easier.

Good Luck Hummer. Stay strong, stick to your boundaries. I hope your husband stays strong and sober too, no matter what happens ( or doesn't happen) between you two.

Ariesagain

Tell him to need to reschedule? I agree that Easter Sunday is a little too emotionally loaded. Besides, it's always worth saying "no" to see what the teal motive is...someone who is genuinely in recovery will respect that you are an individual with choices, just as they are. If he's just throwing you a cookie (love that), he'll be annoyed that you're not under his control.

More will be revealed...

Hummer

SmallButMighty - you're spot on, I most definitely have not forgotten even though he strongly denies that anything happened - maybe only because his daughter rumbled them - this just won't go away, in my opinion it's more difficult than the addiction to live with. Thank you for your support.

Ariesagain, I do believe more will be revealed and thanks for the suggestion - think I will go through with the short meeting though to get it over and done with and also to show that we will still be separated even after a face to face meeting.

tomsteve

those peole there didn't get to where they are after 2 meetings. they've probably been going to meetings and working the steps, or are at some point in the midst of working the steps, for some time.

"and guilty that I'm not trying to make things work as much as these people seem to be."
might be time tothrow out your asskikin machine. how can you make anything work when you don't know how? there was a time when all them people didn't know how to do anything,too- they had to learn how. you will, too, as you keep going back and learn.

hopeful4

I think you seem very very involved with where he is in his recovery for someone who is trying to separate and work on themselves. It's not until they are on their own, doing their own thing, that they show who they truly are. In my opinion, as long as he thinks there is a chance, his behavior is likely influenced by that.

That's not to say that people do not recover. People who truly want to be well and are willing to work on it, every single day, forever, can absolutely achieve that. Nothing but time shows if they can or will do it.

As far as talking to other women, same. However, I am of the view that the tiger's stripes don't change, but that's just me (a woman scorned lol).

Hugs.

Ladybird579

I don't want to be the party pooper here but you are separated pending and I'd not meet him under those circumstances for a coffee cos:-

1. I don't think you are solid enough in your own recovery yet to weather anything he throws your way or any feelings you may have coming up and throwing you a curved ball.

2. It gives him a chance to manipulate you and guilt trip you and lie about his recovery.

3. Why bother? He's your ex.

You do not need this and I bet if you say no he'll go off one one. He's a cheater and no amount of time sober will change that. The people you meet at AA are not supporting cheaters. If they are that's their problem so don't feel like you should be standing by your man.

AnvilheadII

and also to show that we will still be separated even after a face to face meeting.

um, that's about the worst reason to go. the way we show we are separated is to STAY SEPARATE. to not talk and share every day, to not go into details with the other about their life, because it is separate from ours.

you sound on pretty shaky ground and i would NOT recommend going just to TRY to prove something. you sound like all it would take is for him to crook his finger over his latte and you'd cave.

Refiner

It might be a good idea to rehearse a line in your head really good prior to the meeting "just in case" he throws some manipulation out there. If you get ANYTHING even close to pressure to do something that favors him... even a VIBE of him doing so without words (puppy dog eyes or something - eye roll), you must stand up for yourself because YOU are in recovery too and need to remind him of that. He needs to respect that and you must command that he does. Be ready with the rehearsed line like "I am going to be honest with you that I am feeling triggered by XYZ and would like for you to respect that I am in recovery as well, so if you don't mind, I will respectfully be leaving now", You get my drift. Please let us know how it goes!

Hummer

Lots of good points made, I'm very grateful for all the input and variety of opinions.
Will give it more thought. Thank you all.

Sasha1972

FWIW when my alcoholic ex-husband came out of his most recent rehab, he tried to involve me in the details of his sobriety, his struggles, his personal journey, etc. Unfortunately, I fell for it and ended up being "emotional support" (and getting lots of praise and thanks from him, which made me work all the harder at being "supportive").

It didn't last - he relapsed quickly (had probably been drinking all along) and with that his hostile and aggressive behaviors came back even stronger. I learned from that experience that if he ever decides to get sober again, I don't want to know about it until he's been completely clean for at least a year. No negotiations, no confiding in me, no nothing.

I would echo what others have said - don't get too involved in the details of his sobriety, keep a distance, if you absolutely have to talk to him, stick to practical matters only. It's not your responsibility to be his recovery coach or cheerleader. It's really tempting to try to help - because we all want the addict to get sober and we hold onto hope. But alcoholics are brilliant at emotional manipulation and at seeming sincere when they aren't.

As for Al-Anon, the group I go to has several people like me - divorced from an alcoholic but still having to deal with him/her (in my case around sharing parenting). So I think it's fine for you to go even if you're not living with an alcoholic or having any intention of living with one ever again.