kevlarsjal2

Thanks theuncertainty hearing what you said helps me so much to get back on the right track with my thinking. My therapist said similar things before, that no matter how annoying it was what I said or how unjustified my criticism was, there's always a choice in how to react. If that will be kicking me out in the middle of the night, running away from me and ignoring me for a couple of days or if there might be a slightly better way to handle things.
But my ex kept twisting my mind and in the end I always believed him, that generally speaking this might be true but that this is just how things go in an ideal world and that I am not perfect and get impatient sometimes and then criticise him or react defensive when he says I am gaslighting him, so it is understandable that he also reacts in not so ideal ways sometimes.
He kept pulling the focus away from his actions and my emotions, always bringing it back to my actions and his feelings. And all his actions were justified as according to him they were natural consequences to my behaviour or they were caused by him being 40 years old, working full time and being stressed. Of course he can't always be nice then, what do I expect? Is he no longer allowed to feel the way he does now? Do I expect him to always put on a happy face? When all I asked him to, was to not talk in an aggressive way to me. I still feel so bad writing this and like I was expecting too much and like my feelings are unjustified and unreasonable.

I always need to go back to the extreme incidents and remind myself of them like when I was trying to get that rule changed about reporting any contact with men to him and he was convinced I was lying about my true motives behind that suggestion so he kept calling me a liar, was twisting every word I said, trying to prove me wrong and kept going and going until I just sat on the floor crying because I was so desperate for him to believe me and for him not to think that I wanted this change to improve our relationship. He still kept shouting at me and accusing me of stuff while I was crying more and more, saying that he doesn't by into this show, that I can stop crying now, that he doesn't like doing this but that he has to break me so I will admit my true motives, and that this is the only way he will find out about them. And that he has to do this so I will learn that I can't get away with lies and manipulation like this, that he will always see through it.

I think this was one of the most shocking situations where I wasn't sure if I actually knew this guy and that just felt wrong and sick.

Later he justified it by me having taken my problems out on him so many times that he can no longer believe me. When he told me another few days later that it just triggered his insecurities and that he felt so anxious that I was close to leaving him, I was so touched by him being so open and by his sudden tenderness and insight that I didn't make the connection that he must have been very aware of the fact that I was not lying and that it all was just to gain back control over me or punishing me for wanting to be less controlled.

I don't understand why I never realised how much of it was about controlling me. I kept thinking he was bad at controlling himself. But I guess those men get really good at putting us on the wrong track.

Thanks again for your post, I will keep reading through it and through the book in the hope that it will sink in one day!

suki44883

I am sorry to be so blunt, but...that man is a MONSTER!

I admit to not having read every word of every post, but...are you seeing a therapist at this time? If not, you should. If you are, then I hope and pray that doing so will help you with your self-esteem issues. No one deserves to be treated that way.

AnvilheadII

as i read your last few posts, i couldn't help but be struck by how similar your experience sounded, to me, to someone being indoctrinated into a cult - a cult with a charismatic but dangerous leader. so i looked up the steps/methods/how to's of being indoctrinated - pretty darn interesting.

1. Invitation to a non-threatening event
2. Love-bombing
3. Dangling "The Prize" in front of you
4. Extracting an agreement from you that you want the prize
5. Shutting down your dissent by threatening to withhold the prize
6. Establishment of guilt
7. Carrot/Stick
8. Control of identity, information, environment

amy55

kev, ((((( many hugs))))), you have been thru h3ll. I am so sorry about the miscarriage, I also had one. I did need a lot of support at that time. I'm so sorry that you didn't get it.

I would like to ask you though, how long ago was this last break up? I really think you might need to stick around here a lot longer or have more therapy during this time.

The reason I say this is because from what you have written it really resembled the one track mind that I had. I was always trying to figure out how to fix me, how to make things better. You do know there is no way to make things better, except to give your soul to the devil, right? I'm almost 8 years out and still trying to learn who I am, what I like, etc.... A relationship like this just sucks everything out of you.

I actually manipulated my ex into leaving me and filing for a divorce, because I knew I might not have been strong enough to not allow him to keep coming back. I played on his pride for that. I knew if I pushed him into an attorney's office and he filed, that he wouldn't try to come back.

I just ask that you stay around here for awhile, because I don't think you saw the last of him.

(((((((((((((more hugs))))))))))))
amy

kevlarsjal2

I was talking to my mum earlier today and she said what I tell her about the relationship reminds her of the brain washing that happens in a cult.

She didn't put it as clearly as you but those steps, they all fit!

1. We met and it wasn't even a real date, no pressure, nothing! But he was so charming and seemed so charismatic but a little shy.

2. As soon as he saw how charmed I was by him he was completely into me, showering me with attention and compliments, taking me on fancy dates,... I felt like the luckiest girl! He was so nice and interesting, had perfect manners, was funny and wanted to know everything about me, listened to my problems and wanted to help, we had all these shared interests and it felt like we were very similar

3. He started talking about wanting to get me pregnant one day after only a few weeks, said he wants to take me on a fancy holiday, buy me all these things, get married and gave the impression of being very committed. In the 2 years we were together, he didn't even want to move in together any time soon ("I'll live at my place for at least another 5 years").

4. He kept asking me if I was serious about him, if we will stay together forever, if I wanted him and a life together and family...

5. Whenever I didn't behave the way he wanted me to behave, he said I was "out of character", "no longer behaving like his dream woman", "just like all the other women",... (which to me really sounds like this was never about ME but like I was just an actress expected to play the role of his dream woman 24/7) or he said "how is this going to work if I want to have children with you?! You have to work on yourself!" (there were no children planned for the next years, I am still at uni but he kept using that against me, that I don't have much own income right now) or he just broke up with me or threatened to do it

6. Everything was my fault, his behaviour, my behaviour, his emotions, my emotions, he always found a way to make me feel like I had caused the problem and if I tried to defend myself, it just got worse and he didn't talk to me for a week and was suddenly no longer sure about us

7. Yep, he kept hinting at wanting to get married soon and I was stupid enough to buy into it despite him not even wanting to move in together in the next years. He kept painting our future together in a way how I wanted it, everything would be up to me, I would be the one who could decide where we would live etc which to me now just makes it clear that this was all just for show as he didn't even let me have me much of a word in where we'd go on holiday

8. Yes, yes, yes. He kept telling me who I was, what my problems are, analysing my childhood and then saying that I only felt hurt by him because of my past. He kept parts of his life to himself he didn't want to share but expected me to tell him everything. And yes, he tried to keep me from going on holiday with a friend, was against me going abroad for 1-2 months, didn't like me going to meetings so much or having a room mate....

Putting it like that is pretty shocking but also a bit of an eye opener I think. It's still shocking how much he manipulated and controlled me while at the same time presenting him as the weak part of the relationship, making me feel like the insensitive, selfish and controlling bully who always gets things her way.

When I said that I have a hard time drawing boundaries and defending them he said that I certainly do not have a problem with this. That it is him who has a hard time defending himself against me.

I wonder how much he was aware of those things. I guess he actually wanted us to have a happy future but that would've only worked for him, had I never had any needs or opinions that don't fit his picture of an ideal woman.

He was very nice and caring and supportive too and my feelings seemed to matter but only as long they didn't interfere with his needs or feelings.

dandylion

Kev.....I am so proud of you for the effort that you are showing.....
Keep telling yourself, over and over, every day...."It is not my fault"...…
Maybe, make yourself a poster...or put this on your refridgerator…"It is not my fault".....
You have suffered a long time....so, naturally, it is going to take a while to work through this. You will make it...if you just never give up on yourself.....Never give up.

suki44883

Gaslighting is another term for what he was doing to you.

kevlarsjal2

Don't be sorry Suki! Part of me still wants to defend him and say that he never meant to hurt me but that he just saw no choice to behave differently and that he just tried to maintain control so that hurting me was never his main intention.

I am seeing a therapist but I haven't spoken to her much about the relationship as my former therapist pointed out that my ex was abusive and I didn't want this to be true, believing him that he is just misjudged and misunderstood again.
My current therapist thought he might have borderline or paranoid tendencies. But as I said, I haven't told her much.

I'm so glad that I have her and hopefully she will believe me and can help me to work through this. (I am so scared of people not believing me as I kept all the problems to myself as I didn't want to make him look bad in front of others. And now I fear that people think that I am just trying to do that, make him look bad...)

She already helped me to try and establish some boundaries and I just am so grateful that despite his constant blame I was able to become a little more independent over time.

kevlarsjal2

I am starting to think that all the things he accused me of (lying, manipulating, being selfish, uncaring, putting myself first, always wanting to get my will, being controlling, inconsiderate, horrible, not letting him have his boundaries, guilt tripping him, emotionally blackmailing him, abusing him,...) was actually just what he was doing to me.....

trailmix

I have to say when I read this I thought, OMG - seriously. That is such warped thinking.

Not only didn't interfere, as long as it forwarded his agenda.

Breath a sigh of relief. Things will get better, I'm glad you have a therapist that you are feeling pretty comfortable with. I would encourage you to lay it all out on the table and try not to fear being judged. She is there to help you sort through all this.

kevlarsjal2

Thank you Amy

The weird thing is, it didn't feel like hell! I knew he had problems and it never made sense to me that I was the only one who had to work on hers and that his would not affect the relationship or me but he was so sweet most of the time and so sensitive and I felt so, so safe with him. He told me so many times that the most important thing to him, is that I am happy and that he cares about me so deeply. Still recently just after he left me in the hospital and I couldn't understand why he wasn't supporting me as a friend for a while and asked whether I have upset him so much, if I am that horrible or suddenly indifferent to him. He answered that it's upsetting although typical for me to assume that he no longer cares and that it is not true, he cares about me deeply. I couldn't see this in his actions, like I couldn't see so many other things in his actions, but I kept believing his words more. Thinking I just misinterpret his actions cause that is what I usually seem to do.

The break up was 2 months ago now. But it was only last week that I had the miscarriage and he really showed his true colours once more which made me start realising what really happened throughout the relationship. I will have to do a lot of reading on here and also in Bancroft's book.

I still keep thinking that I judge him too harshly and that he can't possibly have been so bad to me, that I took things too personally or am oversensitive. I think it will take a while for the dust to settle.
I will also ask my therapist if maybe we can have 2 sessions per week.


That was probably a very smart thing to do of you! I had my doubts about the relationship lately but was scared to end it because I feared he would think that I am ungrateful or that I only used him. Also I still had this hope that one day I will figure out how to communicate to him so he understands me and can see my perspective. I still thought it was a communication problem we had....

I don't think I will hear from him again.

He never contacted his ex girlfriends after it was over. So I guess he's done with me. I think the fact that I was realising some things about him, now after the break up, like that he just doesn't want to change and doesn't want to take any form of responsibility made him so angry that he needed to gain back some feeling of control by blocking me and sending me back all my belongings so he wouldn't have to face me again, telling me to respect his wish for space.

Thank you (all of you) so much for helping me through this extremely hard time! It helps so much to talk to people who believe me and who understand <3

kevlarsjal2

Thanks dandylion <3 It feels good that someone is proud of me and not just disappointed or blaming me / accusing me of something.

I like the idea about the poster, I might actually need it!

kevlarsjal2

I didn't even find it so weird when he said those things then. I thought that he must've misunderstood me when he said things like that I'm out of character or not like his dream woman. Or that he thought that I was horrible and trying to run him over and therefore he had to "stick up for himself" because he forgot for a moment that actually I am just sweet, sensitive and caring like him.

It was just now that I asked myself if I could picture a situation in which I would say something along those line to my partner. And suddenly it seemed like the weirdest thing to say or even think!

I will try and tell her all about it, maybe I can also print out some of my posts from last year and show them to her, to help her get an idea how I felt then.

trailmix

You didn't.

I really like dandylion's idea about a poster as well. Sometimes we need reminders like that. Then when thoughts like the ones above come in to your head you can look at that poster and think, yes, that's right.

kevlarsjal2

One of the hardest things is to put those 2 images I have of him together. The one where he is insecure and trying to get everything right, to please me, asks me for reassurance, where he is treating me like I am a princess and looks at me with so much love and warmth in his eyes, where being with me is the best thing that ever happened to him and he can't imagine a future without me.

And then the other one where he just doesn't see me. Doesn't see my pain, brushes all my opinions and feelings off as unreasonable or unjustified. And is ice cold. Can this really be the same person?!

amy55

I think that sometimes when we get into relationships like this we already see ourselves as lacking, deficient. The thing my ex always held over my head was that I was already divorced, so it must all be my fault. He used that card all the time.

Thing is, I was raised as a people pleaser. I never wanted people to be angry with me. I had to be a perfectionist. Had to have all "A's" in school. If I felt I did something wrong, or was told I did something wrong, well, I was going to fix that also. I would sacrifice whatever I had to, just to make something right.

I would sacrifice my own happiness so that someone else could be happy. I would give all I could and not get anything in return. But, that was my fault also.
I would feel totally drained in my soul, like I gave everything that I could, but nothing was coming back my way. That's not a relationship.

My ex was never diagnosed, but I really feel 99% sure he had a borderline personality disorder. You can read all of my past post here, you just have to click on my name, then click on past posts. I was diagnosed with C-PTSD.

I no longer have hatred for my ex, perhaps I never did, I did love him, I just don't want to be around him anymore, and I am happy that he is living with his gf, even though if she ever reaches out to me, I would be supportive to her.

I know that I have been calling you kev, I would just like to know if this is OK. Sometimes couples use bf/gf's first names. If kev, is not OK, please let me know.

I'm really happy that you will try going to your therapist 2x's a week, but just remember, we are always here also.

((((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))
amy

Free2bme888

Kevlar. There is a book. Too good to leave, too bad to stay. It’s worth getting a look at if after re reading your own post the message isn’t clear, it helps clear up ambivalence.

We can’t tell you what to do. But he’s abusive and you deserve WAY better. Love yourself honey.

Lots of love,

Free2bme888

Classic controlling personality. You can google it, read signs on controlling people.

Free2bme888

Correct!!! Abusive controlling and manipulative

Maudcat

Hi, kevlarsjal.
Welcome back.
I am very glad to hear that you are no longer in the relationship, though I am sorry for your pain and sadness.
This, too, shall pass.
Okay, people who love and respect each other don’t shout at each other.
One does not blame the other when the relationship hits bumps.
A rule like you can’t talk to other men unless I know about it first is a sign of an overly controlling person.
Tons of texts while you are in an AA meeting, or after, or anywhere, is, again, a sign of an insecure, controlling person.
This is not your fault.
This is not your fault.
Once more, this is not your fault.
It may not seem so now, but you have been given a great gift: life without him in it.
Peace.