Ariesagain

"But when he says mean things to me like blaming me for being emotionally weird cause I'm a woman, saying that my periods cost him his nerves, that I'm out of character when I'm insecure and sad or that I know how to **** him off cause I'm a woman, that doesn't just sound like anger to me. Now he ignores me for the whole day because according to him I'm so horrible that he couldn't even go into work today. "

One thing's for sure...he's one sexist SOB.

So if YOU didn't go to work because you were upset...you're way too sensitive, right? But it's different when it's him?

No. Just no.

LexieCat

It's NOT "normal"--most adults learn to control their anger. A momentary outburst is much different from directing a tirade of verbal abuse at another person. Normal people step away, if they have to, until they get their emotions under control. They might utter a swearword, but not abusive, insulting words.

This is how abuse gets passed on from generation to generation. Some people learn that it's OK to treat others disrespectfully, while others learn to be victims and accept what no one should tolerate.

SparkleKitty

A healthy person who loves you will not scream at you, abuse you, or blame you for everything when they are angry. They will not belittle you or insult you. They will take responsibility for their own emotions and reactions.

He has gaslighted you into a position where you believe you are controlling his outbursts, whether you intend to or not. That if you don't do this, he won't do that. But this is a delusion, and if you buy into it you will spend your entire relationship with this person trying to be "perfect." Secret number 2? (You know, after "There is no such thing as The One"?) There is no such thing as perfect. He will use you for an excuse to unleash his tirades not because you deserve them but because it is his compulsion. There is nothing you can do to fix him, no way to be, no thing to say. His change must come from within him.

Love is not as painful as most of us have been raised to believe.

AnvilheadII

And I cry when I'm shouted at.

yes and that is a NORMAL reaction - it's called FEAR.

ajarlson

I can only echo what everyone else has said. It is not normal for a man to shout at you and make you feel bad. It is not your fault for feeling bad and crying when he does that, it is HIS fault. Sounds like my ex, he also blamed my crying for his outbursts and rages. Now I am with a man who NEVER yells at me and NEVER makes me feel degraded or less of a person or wonder what I did wrong. He builds me up and supports me and when we have a disagreement we talk about it and come up with a solution/compromise like adults. Please please know you are worth more than being someone's verbal punching bag, I am so glad you're in counseling, please listen to your counselor!

Alan6154

Flowers is what you bring home to a woman that is sad and crying. Not a bad attitude.

kevlarsjal

It's difficult for me to take all of this in. And to accept that this might actually be the truth.

Do you all think that there's no hope for this relationship? I know it's my decision and at the moment I feel like breaking up would be overreacting and not reasonable. Especially cause I do love him and he is also doing a lot for me. It's something I'll have to keep an eye on and think a lot about. I think maybe next time he reacts like this I will have to make my boundaries clearer and maybe go away when he shouts at me, letting him know that I don't tolerate this. And not trying to defend myself or apologise when he says it's my own fault and what I have to expect when I **** him off like I do.

I told him that I cry because of fear when he shouts at me. He found that insulting and got even more angry. He says he doesn't understand how I can possibly be scared of him, said that I doubt his feelings for me and that I am accusing him of things that aren't true when I think that there's any reason to be scared of him.

I tried to explain that it probably is because of my dad shouting at m when I was little and me getting scared so maybe I'm over sensitive in that way but he didn't understand.

AnvilheadII

it's not a relationship.....not one between EQUALS. and his mentality is unlikely to change and thus he will continue to abuse you, blame for it, belittle you for reacting and rage if you dare speak against him.

i suggest you be VERY careful about "suddenly" taking a stand against him when he is in a worked up, volatile state. he is not going to hear or accept your boundaries, nor is he likely to taking you walking away with a grain of salt. this can be the most dangerous time when dealing with a ticking time bomb.

hearthealth

He's not going to understand anything you say because he doesn't want to. If they can deny your fear or your feelings they don't have to deal with their action. A person who isn't emotionally and verbally abusive will want to care about you even during the hard for times.

ajarlson

Hi again kevlarsjal. It's been a very long time since I was in your position, so it's hard to put myself back there. Personally, I did not have anyone yelling at me like that as a kid but I was still afraid when my XAH did it, because people like that have a posture and an attitude that is meant to incite fear (whether they know it or not). My XAH was frightening when he was yelling and it creates a very APPROPRIATE fear response in you. You won't be able to explain any of this to him, it sounds just like my XAH, he denied it, said he didn't mean it to sound like that, didn't know what I was talking about... the excuses went on and on but it didn't matter because my feelings were VALID. Your feelings are VALID, they are YOURS not his and you don't have to explain them to him. When I tell my current fiance that something he did hurt me, he doesn't care that he didn't MEAN to hurt me, he cares that I was HURT and he makes an effort NOT to do that again. THAT is what a relationship should be, caring for each other. I am almost in tears here, thinking of how you think you must deserve this in some way and that this is what love is. When I left my XAH I would have been happy to be alone the rest of my life, and surround myself with family and friends whom I love and who love me back. That is where you need to get to, to realize you're worth love, that your feelings are valid and you can have them whenever you want without being yelled at for having them. I know it's a lot to take in, and I am glad he is not physically abusing you but IMHO the verbal abuse is almost worse, because you don't have any outward signs of the damage that is being done. Keep going to the counselor, stay on this board and know that we all care about you and take care of yourself and stay safe. When you're strong enough, you'll know.

kevlarsjal

Thank you for your lovely words ajarlson, they mean a lot, they really do. I'm still so terribly confused. I love this man so much and he's so wonderful in so many ways. But I struggle with his anger more and more. I don't dare bringing up things that might cause him to get angry. So I try and keep them for myself. And then they burst out when it's all too much and I'm emotional already. Then he blames me for being hormonal and says I should be more open and honest and tell him about my insecurities right away and not bottle them up. So I tried that but when I told him about something that was bothering me (and I always emphasised that I could be wrong and that it's just an irrational fear/worry cause I'm so insecure and vulnerable right now) he got so angry that he still won't talk to me and doesn't want to see me for days. He says he needs time to process all the things I said to him and make up his mind about what I said.


This is so hard to deal with for me, I'm not that used to being sober yet and I am also dealing with childhood traumas in therapy so I feel very very voulnerable and incesure. I just wish he would be there for me and support me like I mostly does. I feel so lonely without him and I miss him so much. I can't even get myself to eat.

What you said about that it's not about whether the other one tried to hurt you or not but you feeling hurt is what counts is exactly how I see it too. If I accidentally step on someone's foot I still apologise and don't keep standing on their foot when they inform me about it. But he only sees that I hurt and attack him when I tell him that he hurt me. It gets totally twisted around. It's like I'm to blame for feeling hurt. Like that when I feel this way it means that he's a bad boyfriend. I told him so often that it doesn't and that it's normal that people in a relationship accidentally hurt each other and that it's mostly his response to that that is the problem and not so much him hurting me in the first place.

I think he idealises relationships and can't have it that he might hurt me in any way. Seems like it's totally unacceptable for him so he just denies it. He said that he is disappointed cause he thought our relationship would be different but now there's hurt, insecurities and sadness again and that he thought that maybe this would be different but he thinks he was naively hopeful.

I am not very good at loving myself or thinking I'm worthy of anything. I have huge self destructive tendencies which is also why I drank. I don't feel like I deserve to be alive and I think everything I do is wrong. My whole existence seems wrong to me. And I know this sounds weird now maybe but I feel lucky that I met my boyfriend cause he is the first person ever who told me that I deserve to feel good and to be loved. He contributed a lot to me getting sober and starting a therapy. He's been incredibly helpful and supportive with that. That's why it's such a shock for me to hear that his behaviour might be abusive and not okay, it just doesn't make sense to me.

ajarlson

Wow, so much of how you're feeling and what you're going through is exactly what I went through 30 years ago with my XAH. He swooped in among the devastation that was my life and rescued me. He had a good job, he was dashing, and oh how he LOVED me. Looking back now, I realize that his love was almost smothering, even in the beginning, but I needed it then. My mother was an alcoholic and gave me to my grandparents to raise until she wanted me back as a teen but was still drinking and doing drugs. I turned to alcohol and drugs as well, and had a few boyfriends but he was the only one that I thought really loved me. The abuse started very subtly and, like you, I thought well he really loves me so I can live with that. But it's like the frog in the cold water, not noticing it's getting hotter until it's boiling and it's too late. He had a bad childhood, he was smart and handsome and loved me and I wanted to believe he could be the person he said he wanted to be. The reality is that no matter what either of us wanted, he had behaviors that were abusive and as time went along I expected them and internalized them and thought they were my fault, then our fault, then that we could fix those issues through counseling. But unless he is willing to say "I have a problem" and admit he is an abuser, those issues cannot be fixed. This is not your fault. None of this is your fault. You didn't cause it, you can't fix it, and you can't control it. Keep saying that to yourself, and start believing that nothing you do could be the cause of someone treating you badly. It has taken me most of my pretty long life to get to this point so don't beat yourself up about what people are telling you right now. Just think about it, keep going to counseling (I know I sound like a broken record LOL) and take care of yourself.

ajarlson

By the way, think about this sentence "I don't dare bringing up things that might cause him to get angry."

That is control and abuse on his part. No matter how great things are, if you feel this way, that is what it is. Sorry that we're all making it a little harder for you but good for you for reaching out and being open. It's just the beginning.

firebolt

Yep, you aren't in a partnership - you are there as a tool to him to keep his life cushy and comfortable. What about your life?! I'm so glad you are in therapy. It helped me so much through the worst times, and also helped me see the amazing things in life that i do deserve!

Keep posting here please - guys like that ONLY get worse. Just consider that how things are now is the best they will ever be. Is this what you want forever? He could tell you he loves you until he's blue int he face, but his actions are not that of love. You deserve much better my dear!

amy55

I agree with everything ajarlson said, and everything else that everyone else here has said.

I was in an abusive relationship for 25 years. It started out much like yours did, but it didn't get to the point that yours is now till about 8 years after I was married. Abuse does escalate. You start to minimize things and you don't react to things the way that you did, and then he escalates the abuse to get the reaction that he wants.

The sentence, "I don't dare bringing up things that might cause him to get angry." Really, do think about this. It means that you are "Walking on Eggshells" around him. You are slowly changing yourself to be the person he wants you to be, instead of the person that you are, but no matter what you change about yourself, he will still never be satisfied.

I want to tell you some things about the "fights" that you have. My ex had told me that if you are fighting, you get to say and do whatever you want, because you are at war and fighting with the enemy, then after the fight, you make up and have sex.

There was one time that I had asked my ex 3 times, very nicely to stop something. He wouldn't. 4th time, I got up and walked away. He got mad at me, because I was upset with him. I asked my therapist about that, she told me it's manipulation and intimidation.

I stayed in denial for a long time about abuse. I wanted for it to me so much, because if it was me, then I could fix it. It wasn't me, and I couldn't fix it.

You've been here, and you are talking about it, and sometimes you may want to go back into denial again, but, you are seeing and reading other stories and it's hard to turn back and go back into denial.

I had something I wanted to ask you about. You don't have to answer it here, it's just another thing to think about. Were you thinking of marriage or having children? If this situation is the same or worse in say 5 years, do you think you can still handle a life like this. Would you want to have children living in a life like this?

((((((((((((hugs)))))))))) and welcome to SR
amy

kevlarsjal

Yes what you described is pretty much how I feel. My boyfriend loves me incredibly much and is so dedicated and committed our relationship and i never had this before. I don't find his love smothering though. I like it. But compared to what I am used to from relationships before it's much more intense.

I appreciate all your support and opinions very much and I hope you don't think I'm obstinate and ignorant but at the moment I don't want to give up on this relationship. I will ask him again to see a therapist and I will try to explain how his anger affects me when he has completely calmed down. Until now he always said after our fights that he wants us to work on that and that he's willing to work on himself too, all he wants is for me to be happy and he wants to make me happy. But we never really talked about this when we weren't just ending a fight. So maybe if he actually starts to work on this, it will get better. I'll be more cautious with this though. My therapist said his abusive tendencies don't have to be a reason to break up with him but that I need to take good care of myself and set clearer boundaries in order to become more independent and stronger.
And my BF knows / admits that he has lots of work left to do with his moods. I doubt he sees himself as abusive but he knows he has to work on himself. I hope he'll take action and start therapy.

It also helps to hear from so many people that it's not my fault.

LexieCat

OK, the more you describe the dynamic here, the more I think he's an abuser, not someone with simple anger control problems. (One doesn't necessarily exclude the other). The things he says to you, and the way he blames you for making him do what he does, show that he is somehow getting something out of controlling you this way. Maybe it makes him feel powerful to "whip you into shape," criticizing you for not behaving the way HE thinks you should. Whatever his motivations, your self-esteem will be ground into the dirt if you stay in this relationship. He doesn't see ANYTHING WRONG with what he does--it's all your fault. Your fault to begin with, and your fault for reacting as a normal human being does to this kind of behavior.

I don't know what country you live in, but there is probably some kind of organization that helps women who are being abused. They have counseling and advocacy services specifically designed to help someone in your situation.

The answer is NOT for you to work harder on controlling your feelings or trying harder to not upset him. Relationships should free you to be yourself. If you can't be yourself without being afraid, it's not a healthy relationship to be in. If you change anything about yourself it should be because YOU want to do it, not because you're afraid of what someone else will do if you don't change.

It sounds like you are in AA. Ever hear the expression there, "To thine own self be true?" You can't be true to yourself if you are punished for doing that.

LexieCat

OK, I just read your last post, and I see another big red flag (I work professionally in the field of domestic violence, and have for many years): "My boyfriend loves me incredibly much and is so dedicated and committed our relationship and i never had this before. I don't find his love smothering though. I like it. But compared to what I am used to from relationships before it's much more intense."

To me, this shows that he views you as a POSSESSION. Many, many abusers are very intense and shower their partners with attention. It IS very flattering, and it draws victims into the relationship. The abuser is often very jealous--they get upset if you have male friends or if they don't like the way you look at another man. They make you feel very, very SPECIAL. Up until you do something that displeases them.

It is really a textbook characteristic of abusive relationships.

ajarlson

Yes, thanks LexieCat - it should be noted that I did NOT see the relationship as smothering at the time. I felt the exact way you describe it, kevlarsjal:
"My boyfriend loves me incredibly much and is so dedicated and committed our relationship and i never had this before. I don't find his love smothering though. I like it. But compared to what I am used to from relationships before it's much more intense."

Exactly. The. Same. I liked it. I wanted it, and it was not healthy.
So many of us have been in your shoes, I am glad you are here with us.
((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))

kevlarsjal

Oh Lexie what you say makes me so sad. It is all true. He makes me incredible presents and is so sweet and shows me his affection so much. I always found he idealises me a bit too much and I'm scared that this 'illusion' will wear off. He says I'm his ideal woman and the one he's been waiting for all of his life. And he sometimes he says things like suggest he sees me like some kind of angel-like, innocent being that was sent to him as some kind of reward for sobering up and giving his life a second chance. This makes me feel a very special to him but also a bit pressured and I don't want him to get disappointed when he notices that I'm a human with flaws. When I told him this he said he likes my flaws and that they make me a human and that's okay. And that he's willing to work on ways to make this relationship work cause it's so important to him.

He also is very jealous. At the moment it's not much of a problem cause I don't have contact to other men apart from my family. I sometimes write with my ex whom I am friends with. But he lives in a different country. Sometimes he is jealous though and wants me to always tell him when I write with my ex. I find that okay though. He says he's very insecure and that it could be difficult for him if I went out with a male colleague after work for a drink or so. I'm not working at the moment so right now that's not a problem (yet).

I don't want to lose him. This all makes me just so so sad.