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Old 06-10-2019, 07:19 AM   #81 (permalink)
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I think all of those things you are experiencing, feeling and doing are normal in the circumstance of living with untreated alcoholism. Looking at the alcohol level on the bottle serves no purpose except it gives you something to do because you donít know what else to do.

Al-anon helped me learn what else to do. Have you given any thought to some kind of recovery program for yourself?

And yes I do think alcoholism is a mental illness as is OCD, hypochondriac and of course depression.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease and you are witnessing that progression.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:47 AM   #82 (permalink)
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I think it's absolutely OK to be getting help for yourself while a the same time hanging on to that hope. His mouth says he is sorry, but his actions through repeating the same behavior over and over don't really say that.

I also hesitate to say what I think about alcoholism and mental illness. I see many people get stuck in their own lives because they want to brand this behavior mental illness then feel like they have no right to move forward. Just look at the behavior itself and decide if that is what you want to deal with as this does and will progress.

I think the same about the addict themselves. They many times want to brand it a mental illness so they have an excuse to continue. I think it needs to be that this is the behavior and I need help to stop these behaviors, whatever that may look like. The branding does no good. Just my opinion of course.

When I was nearing the end of the rope with my XAH, I went to a doctor, psychiatrist, and a counselor. I went to the doctor who referred me to the psychiatrist because I was in a bad place and needed some medication. I went to the counselor to have therapy to help ME become ok with me. To help me be as strong as I could be and support myself because no matter what was going to happen, I knew I had to be that strong to handle it. It helped me immensely as a person and I am so glad I went. I shifted that focus from my XAH onto myself and what I needed to be a whole, happy person.

The fine folks here at SR, paired with Celebrate Recovery meetings were also sources of my support during that time. I don't know what I would have done without it. Keep reaching out, you are not alone!

Sending lots of support!
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:45 AM   #83 (permalink)
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I think all of those things you are experiencing, feeling and doing are normal in the circumstance of living with untreated alcoholism. Looking at the alcohol level on the bottle serves no purpose except it gives you something to do because you donít know what else to do.

Al-anon helped me learn what else to do. Have you given any thought to some kind of recovery program for yourself?

And yes I do think alcoholism is a mental illness as is OCD, hypochondriac and of course depression.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease and you are witnessing that progression.
I went to Al-anon for about 3 months a few years ago. It helped me at first. It's where I first learned about Co-Dependency. It definitely helped me to learn more about it and know that I wasn't alone or crazy. After a while, I felt like it was just helping me actually focus on it. I was tired of thinking about it and got tired of talking about it too. There are a few trusted people in my life that are aware of the situation. I'm sure that most people that interact with him have figured it out or sense that something is off at least, but I don't usually talk about my marital problems with very many people. However, I'd say that we've become a little isolated. It's sad once I actually put this stuff in words.

Our conflicts are getting more frequent. I've become increasingly concerned about his behaviors and things he says. He's suicidal at times. We talk about it and I try not to judge, and to just listen. But I encourage him to get counseling EVERY SINGLE TIME and nothing ever becomes of it. The next day, it's like it never happened. So, is it the boy that cried wolf? I can't help but think that he's doing it for attention at times, so I think I'm becoming numb to it. He's so UP and DOWN. I rolled my eyes yesterday (he didn't see) when he said that he didn't want to live anymore. And, I think about that. What does that mean that someone makes a comment like that and my reaction is to roll my eyes?! Sometimes, I feel like I'm an awful person but yet I'm so tired of it.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:22 AM   #84 (permalink)
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He's suicidal at times. We talk about it and I try not to judge, and to just listen. But I encourage him to get counseling EVERY SINGLE TIME and nothing ever becomes of it. The next day, it's like it never happened. So, is it the boy that cried wolf? I can't help but think that he's doing it for attention at times, so I think I'm becoming numb to it.
Hi Flower, sorry to hear your ride on the Crazy Train is getting worse. Been on that ride, it was awful. It made me very sick.

I quoted the above so I could share with you my experience with my AXH. I went through the same thing. My AXH was depressed which he "medicated" with alcohol..which made him depressed so he drank some more... fun cycle that... every once in a while when he could sense I was gaining strength and he got worried I would leave or change his dynamic in any way, he'd throw down the old suicide card. It would send me for a loop... I didn't want to be the "reason" he killed himself... I was scared of all the fallout that would happen for me and our kids if he went through with it... I tied myself up in knots with the fear and anxiety of it all.

It was straight up manipulation on his part. He knew that if I was swirling in my own chaos I wasn't going to be able to be strong enough to leave him. He was right. That tactic worked on me for long time. He do these disappearing acts and I would wonder if he was dead or alive, work myself into a frenzy over it, he'd end up coming home drunk and I'd be so relieved he was alive I'd keep my mouth shut. Fun times. He even admitted it when I finally figured it out and called him on it as we were breaking up. He said he would do what ever he had to do to feed his demons. He even tried it again once I was living in my own place, he wanted to get out of paying me what he owed me in marital equity so he tried using the threat of suicide to get me to back down. I looked him in the eye and told him that kind of BS didn't work on me anymore...so he got up and walked out. He called hours later to apologize and we finished working out the details of the separation agreement.

I've heard through the grapevine he has now started the disappearing acts on the current woman in his life....Also the "woe is me and my depression" acts.... I guess he figured it worked for years on me, he will see what kind of mileage he can get out of it on her now. I don't like the woman, but I hope she doesn't put up with it for as long as I did.

My AXH, my brother and my eldest stepson have all used the threat of suicide (several times each) to manipulate the people around them. Not so coincidentally they all have mental health and substance abuse issues. They are also, all three of them, very much alive.

While I think threats of suicide should be taken seriously... I abhor when people use it as a means of manipulation. It is the most vile form of emotional abuse that I can think of. It drove me into a severe anxiety disorder.I suggest when your alcoholic says those kinds of things you call the authorities... if he is serious he gets help, and if he is "just" being a manipulative jerk, maybe he will cut it the heck out if he knows you will call 911 when he says that stuff.

I hate that he puts you through that. His life is not actually in your hands, he just wants you to think so. I hope you know that.

*hugs*
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:22 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Flower, Al-Anon helps you learn to focus on YOUR needs. You stopped attending because the focus was too much on the addiction/addict? Yet, in all your posts... 100% of the focus is on your qualifier... his needs... his issues... his his his. I know all this can feel extremely overwhelming but we all know, things will continue to snowball. Sometimes it just takes stepping back and re-reading your posts... seeing how much youíre obsessing about him/his addiction. Believe me, I was in a similar all-consuming place w/my ex girlfriend. After 1 full year on intense therapy I remember my therapist saying... ok, we spent an entire year discussing your ex. Can I finally meet you? Can we finally talk about you? My face turned bright red in embarrassment! How the hell did I let myself get this far down? But you know what... thereís peace right around the corner... you just have to keep taking tiny steps forward.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:29 AM   #86 (permalink)
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I also wanted to add, my ex started suicidal threats & manic episodes after 5 years of being together... things just became worse & worse. I think it was manipulation but honestly in my opinion, itís 100% not my job to clinically evaluate her! For me, it was the absolute breaking point! She refused help as well so I packed a bag and left. Heartbreaking but the best decision I ever made. Much love...
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:42 AM   #87 (permalink)
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I don't want to take suicide threats lightly - but when they're being made over and over, in contexts where the threats are clearly instrumental (i.e. to get someone to do something they might not otherwise do), I think it's legitimate to say "okay, kill yourself or don't, that will be your decision and nothing to do with me. You know where to find the crisis line number".
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:46 AM   #88 (permalink)
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We have the same talks over and over again. Yet, nothing changes. We don't know how to change, or even where to begin. I told him a few weeks ago that I didn't think we could do well together if we're not individually well. I'm not sure that we'll make it.
Hi flower. Well it certainly sounds like a crazy train and I'm sorry that continues for you. It's been two years since you last posted and it sounds like you are just watching the progression of the alcoholism.

It's not going to get better on its own. He isn't going to magically wake up some day and all will be well. He is obviously not interested in any recovery right now.

Unfortunately, you are enabling him to continue like this. Now, "enabling" is not the same as being responsible for, you are not responsible for his untreated alcoholism, that's his own thing.

By holding his hand, lifting him up, accepting his verbal abuse, ignoring the elephant in the room you are enabling him to carry on with the status quo with very little downside. He doesn't have to deal with much of anything I'm going to guess - including going to the clinic and then on to the ER. You are right there driving him around and holding his hand, just as you were there to drive him to get ice cream two years ago.

So what is the downside to his drinking for him? He still has you, a place to live, someone to look after him, someone who will take his verbal abuse (which will probably intensify). As his physical symptoms become more prominent, as he has to realize this is not such a fun situation anymore, you are going to be the recipient of that anger apparently, as he lashes out.

Is this the life you want? Caring for an alcoholic that has no intention of getting help?

It doesn't get better from here on out by the way.

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We don't know how to change
There is no "we" in this change. The only person you can change is yourself, he is not interested in change. What are you doing for yourself?
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:46 AM   #89 (permalink)
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I went to Al-anon for about 3 months a few years ago. It helped me at first. It's where I first learned about Co-Dependency. It definitely helped me to learn more about it and know that I wasn't alone or crazy. After a while, I felt like it was just helping me actually focus on it. I was tired of thinking about it and got tired of talking about it too.
You mean kind of like the alcoholic, talks about the drinking being a problem but then when too much focus is put on that issue itís time to stop the talks and bury heads in the sand again.

I think for the many people who begin to attend al-anon with the expectation of helping the alcoholic to stop drinking, there comes great disappointment.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:17 AM   #90 (permalink)
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touching lightly on the "suicide threat" topic.....read any recent news story about someone who actually, tragically committed suicide and the common thing you hear from family and loved ones is - We Had No Idea. meaning the person didn't run around making threats of self harm every time the weather changed. those truly in danger of self harm are very quiet, very introspective - because the contemplation of actually ending ones' own life is VERY personal.

that being said, whenever someone makes a clear statement of pending self harm, we should always call 911.

i should think having the SAME conversation about the SAME thing on a repeat cycle has to be crazy making. what if you changed YOUR responses? he is not hearing you and the end result is always the same. by remaining engaged in the same endless loop, you both assure that nothing changes, and it's SSDD 365 days a year.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:29 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Y'all have made some good points that have got me thinking a bit more. Thanks for the feedback-it's good to get a different perspective.
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:10 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Flower - you sound like you are my twin and my husband is your husband's twin! The behaviors and conversations are identical. Obviously I have no advice for you because I am you. Just - you are not alone. And you are not the crazy one!
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:00 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Can I make a suggestion...

You may or may not be ready to separate but you could try and get some space. If he's drinking heavily at the weekend then he's not spending it with you. You may aswell spend time with friends, family. Get some perspective on it. Have a spa weekend away, just get away from his routine. I know it's not sustainable, but the rest of the week may be more bearable for you. It's NOT going to make him quit/taper. You have no power over him. (by him I mean the addiction -which is controlling him).

These are not your weekends, they're his. What do you want to do? What would make you happy? (ok..aside from flicking that big red stop switch that stops all of our loved ones drinking again)?

Big hugs, my love. I know how rough it is. We're all here for you.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:36 PM   #94 (permalink)
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g


He is gaslighting you. Look it up!

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I'm so frustrated so I'm going to vent here. 2 nights ago, my AH went golfing and that, of course, "requires" drinking. He tried to get me to drink with him after I got home from work (there was a glass of wine waiting for me on the counter). I proceeded in pouring out the glass of wine down the kitchen drain. I do like to have a glass of wine here & there. I'm trying to lose weight and alcohol is the easiest thing for me to cut out of my calories. Additionally, it feels like enabling him and I don't want to do that either. He knows how I feel about it but he continues to trying to get me to drink with him. So because I dumped it out, he got upset over it. I didn't do it in front of him, btw. He then proceeds to try to get me to engage him in an argument but I didn't take the bait. He did say something disturbing (& confusing) to me, which I ignored. I had thought about it all day yesterday. So last night, I wanted to know what he meant by saying what he said. The heated conversation began. I just feel like he completely blame shifted me. He says that I was passive aggressive because I didn't drink the glass of wine. HUH? I told him that I learned to never engage him when he's drinking. The conversation escalates and ends up being about more than what I even intended. Apparently, I'm boring to him. Of course I'm boring to him! He also said that he's never told me that he wasn't an alcoholic. WTF?! Seriously!? We've had many conversations about this! I guess now he DOES think he's an alcoholic but he CAN control it.

I feel like I'm going crazy! It's one way this week & another way next week. Per him-it's my fault, I'm boring, I'm angry, I'm passive aggressive now (it's a first for that one), I make him feel like **** for drinking, and I don't appreciate him. He asks me "Do you think that you're actively working on improving the marriage". So for me, that implies that he believes I'm not. Now I'm doubting myself. Am I really this person he says I am?!
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Old 06-11-2019, 12:15 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Flower - you sound like you are my twin and my husband is your husband's twin! The behaviors and conversations are identical. Obviously I have no advice for you because I am you. Just - you are not alone. And you are not the crazy one!
Hi Maresy, glad you posted and welcome (great username!).
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Old 06-11-2019, 05:50 AM   #96 (permalink)
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Flower - you sound like you are my twin and my husband is your husband's twin! The behaviors and conversations are identical. Obviously I have no advice for you because I am you. Just - you are not alone. And you are not the crazy one!
That's crazy! I was absolutely exhausted yesterday but worked because he was at home and I didn't want to be anywhere near him yesterday. I'm tired of getting hurt.

My emotions were very raw yesterday. I feel better today.

Hugs to you.
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Old 06-11-2019, 05:55 AM   #97 (permalink)
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He is gaslighting you. Look it up!


Absolutely. Depending on the situation, I've called him out on gaslighting me several times.
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:15 AM   #98 (permalink)
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You may or may not be ready to separate but you could try and get some space. If he's drinking heavily at the weekend then he's not spending it with you. You may aswell spend time with friends, family. Get some perspective on it. Have a spa weekend away, just get away from his routine. I know it's not sustainable, but the rest of the week may be more bearable for you. It's NOT going to make him quit/taper. You have no power over him. (by him I mean the addiction -which is controlling him).

These are not your weekends, they're his. What do you want to do? What would make you happy? (ok..aside from flicking that big red stop switch that stops all of our loved ones drinking again)?

Big hugs, my love. I know how rough it is. We're all here for you.
Thanks! I think about this all the time-at least when the weekend gets closer. I'm a bit of a homebody and hate the idea that I get chased out of my own home. I do have a few hobbies (crafting, reading), a sister that I'm close to, and an aging mother that I help. I do have a close friend that I get together with here & there for a day (but she doesn't understand alcoholism and gives terrible advice regarding so I don't usually talk much about it with her).

The weekend has to be a good balance for me. I'll plan something for a Saturday, then have absolutely nothing planned for Sunday. I do think there is room for improvement here. I need to go do more things without him. I'm trying to plan a weekend get-a-way with my sister to visit my brother out of state.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:25 PM   #99 (permalink)
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I'm so frustrated so I'm going to vent here. 2 nights ago, my AH went golfing and that, of course, "requires" drinking. He tried to get me to drink with him after I got home from work (there was a glass of wine waiting for me on the counter). I proceeded in pouring out the glass of wine down the kitchen drain. I do like to have a glass of wine here & there. I'm trying to lose weight and alcohol is the easiest thing for me to cut out of my calories. Additionally, it feels like enabling him and I don't want to do that either. He knows how I feel about it but he continues to trying to get me to drink with him. So because I dumped it out, he got upset over it. I didn't do it in front of him, btw. He then proceeds to try to get me to engage him in an argument but I didn't take the bait. He did say something disturbing (& confusing) to me, which I ignored. I had thought about it all day yesterday. So last night, I wanted to know what he meant by saying what he said. The heated conversation began. I just feel like he completely blame shifted me. He says that I was passive aggressive because I didn't drink the glass of wine. HUH? I told him that I learned to never engage him when he's drinking. The conversation escalates and ends up being about more than what I even intended. Apparently, I'm boring to him. Of course I'm boring to him! He also said that he's never told me that he wasn't an alcoholic. WTF?! Seriously!? We've had many conversations about this! I guess now he DOES think he's an alcoholic but he CAN control it.

I feel like I'm going crazy! It's one way this week & another way next week. Per him-it's my fault, I'm boring, I'm angry, I'm passive aggressive now (it's a first for that one), I make him feel like **** for drinking, and I don't appreciate him. He asks me "Do you think that you're actively working on improving the marriage". So for me, that implies that he believes I'm not. Now I'm doubting myself. Am I really this person he says I am?!
this is called gaslighting and it is not ok. Believe me I lived with it for years...no you are not crazy he just wants to shift any and all blame so that he doesnít have to take responsibility for anything and it takes the focus off his drinking.
Hugs to you.
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:03 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Thanks! I think about this all the time-at least when the weekend gets closer. I'm a bit of a homebody and hate the idea that I get chased out of my own home. I do have a few hobbies (crafting, reading), a sister that I'm close to, and an aging mother that I help. I do have a close friend that I get together with here & there for a day (but she doesn't understand alcoholism and gives terrible advice regarding so I don't usually talk much about it with her).

The weekend has to be a good balance for me. I'll plan something for a Saturday, then have absolutely nothing planned for Sunday. I do think there is room for improvement here. I need to go do more things without him. I'm trying to plan a weekend get-a-way with my sister to visit my brother out of state.
Hi Flower, I just received email notifications that this post has been updated and I now remember reading this post a couple years ago when you posted it. I remember thinking that you and I are living the same life. I never thought I would post on a forum such as this but I really find comfort in reading what you are going through because I'm going through the exact same thing.

Your AH and your relationship sounds exactly like mine. I learned about co-dependancy after finding this forum a couple of years ago and have been working at not trying to control him or his drinking. It's heartbreaking watching him from the sidelines. I just wish he could see how much better he is and how life could be if he just stopped drinking.

My husband isn't violent or abusive but he is annoying and obnoxious when he has been drinking and I stay with him because when he's sober, he's that person that I love again. I also have that hope every day that "today is the day...."

I hope you keep updating us here because as much as others are helping you with advice, you are also helping others by sharing.
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