Mlo1125

Hi everyone, I'm new to using this site, but have read many, many posts throughout the past several years, so thank you for the insight that you have all made available.
Although my situation feels unique amongst the people I know, it's probably extremely common in this forum. Trust after relapse, what is my role in this?
My husband has been sober since last March, we'll, I think so anyway. He attended a long term rehab and has made enormous progress, got a new job and consistently works, was accountable for his time and money for the most part, would allow conversations and discuss his alcoholism with me more openly than he had before and although it took me a while, I had finally gotten to the place where I didn't live with fear anymore. I wasn't afraid to leave him alone, to do things separately, I developed my own interests and started a business and finally had the energy to focus on me, not him.
I had been suspicious lately because his behavior patterns returned and he was just not doing well emotionally. I suspected drinking, of course it was denied, I figured that if he was, he would eventually get sloppy enough that ithe would reveal itself rather than panicking when there was nothing I could do to prove he was lying anyway. Well, he got sloppy, he got caught.

I feel so differently than I did before he went to rehab and got sober. My emotions were so all over and I was just focused on him, him, him, how can I help?
This time, the trust has been mutilated. I no longer want to help him figure out what to do. I was going to just tell him to leave, but I didn't. I did tell him what my boundary was and said that heasy always has a choice in any situation. I just told him that I hope he chooses well and would support anyou decision he made. Although, when he asked what I wanted him to do, I told him that this situation was not created by my decisions so neither will the resolution of it. He got into this, find the solution to get out of it. I am allowing him time to figure out his next move rather than acting rashly and telling him to move out.
After much thought, I have decided that I will give him a chance since he has acknowledged the relapse and has stopped again, but the trust is non existent and that greatly hinders intimacy. While the role of earning trust back is on him, I'm am not really sure what my role is here? I would like to begin to learn to trust, but the way they say that for every relapse, the withdrawal is worse for the addict, the same is true for the effects of trust in the relationship. I don't know where to start on my end to forgivend and move past to allow trust to be earned, not just for the relationship sake, but so that I can let go of living in fear again.

FireSprite

I'm so happy you decided to de-lurk & join us officially!

Others may have differing opinions but I don't think you play ANY role in him trying to earn back trust. Especially if this is a very recent event - trust builds over time, not overnight.

If you turn that inquiry inward, you can make some headway IMO. Where are you lacking trust in yourself in order to allow fear to be the immediate go-to response in times like these? What do you need to do to prove to yourself that You are Always Enough no matter what decisions he makes? Is it emotional? Financial? Real or imagined?

dandylion

Mlo.....why not let your "role" be...just doing what you want to do....

Forward12

Trust is a hard thing to gain back, and can be especially devastating after a year of rebuilding. It's hard to say how he's feeling as it sounds like he made great progress with his sobriety. He may feel devastated as well that he threw away a year of hard work, and will get right back on the wagon. Though on the flipside, he may just go back to his old ways,..
It's hard to say how to approach this, but it sounds like you have things in order to make sure you are keeping yourself going, and not to be codependent to only him.

Mlo1125

Thank you guys for replying. Fire, yes I agree with you, but I think maybe I didn't word the question right. I don't think I have to play a role in him earning back my trust, you're right about that. It's more that I have I guess put up a wall to block out any openness to hope, if that makes any sense. What I want to work on is allowing myself to be open to even seeing changes or being willing to forgive. Otherwise, any strides he makes to earn trust will be in vein because I won't allow it to penetrate the wall I put up. Where do you start to develop the openness to let light in?

qwer1234

I think if he's working his program, you will see the fruit of his effort and trust will grow. I think if you are working your program that will allow you to see what you need to see and to forgive and trust again....if that's the appropriate path.

qwer1234

NewRomanMan

IDK if there are any easy answers to your question, Mlo. In my situation my father had a relapse while watching my then very young daughter one afternoon. My wife at the time was utterly furious and it was months before she would even talk to him. Her trust in him was seriously damaged. It took a lot of time and proof from him that he had totally recommitted himself to sobriety before the issue was resolved, at least as much as it can be. What I'm getting at is sometimes when we let the trust process unfold by itself, ie; quit focusing on it and pondering it and just let it evolve and happen in it's own time and in it's own way we're better off. Granted a lot is going to depend upon what your husbands actions are going forward...not sure if this helps at all, but just my experience.

FireSprite

Think about this - is anything more codependent than leaving vulnerabilities built-in to your Trust Wall, JUST IN CASE he manages to do the hard work & honestly works toward earning your respect & trust again?

Is that really your responsibility? Nope. That makes it about him, not you.

I can tell you that for me it took a very, very long time. And RAH got testy about it & frustrated & it didn't matter one iota. I couldn't MAKE myself feel something that wasn't there & I couldn't force myself to accept the unacceptable any longer.

But the more I trust ME, the more I open my trust up to others because I trust that I finally got to a point where I could be wrong & make mistakes & not be devastated by them.

I had to develop some financial & emotional independence & formulate my Plan B's & all of that built up my trust in myself. I know that no matter what happens *I* can survive & thrive. The more I trust me, the less I NEED trust in other people; it's just really great when they prove themselves to be worthy of it. (and ultimately that re-built trust has always come as a result of their actions, not words)

Smarie78

Welcome to SR! This is a big one here and you will find a lot of good knowledge on this subject. I can tell you that my own experiences are exactly as you describe. The A in my life has broken my trust on a regular basis with repeated relapse going on over a year now. He will relapse, disappear on a bender, come back promising not to do it again and go back to treatment/AA, work on my trust...and boom, like clockwork - it happens again (and again, and again). This isn't so much his problem as it is mine. Just as it is yours - you trust him because you love him and want to believe in him, but he keeps showing in his actions that he is not trustworthy.
Where I can relate to you is how that trust gets diminished each time and chisels away at the relationship, filing it down with each incidence of relapse until you are touching bone. This absolutely does and will continue to impact the relationship on many levels. You may find yourself distancing from him - not even consciously, but because you have fear of trust being taken again, and you want so badly for him to show you in his actions that trust is being built. But when you aren't seeing real actionable steps to help ensure he won't hurt you again and the relapsing keeps happening, your defenses shoot up to protect you as a shield and you can't fully get comfortable with trust (you know, that whole basis of a relationship thing?). In my case, my partner ends up noticing that lack of trust from me peeking in no matter how much I try and repress it and instead of working to regain the trust through actions, blames me for losing interest in him when all I want is for him to do the work. It's simply human nature that when trust erodes in a relationship, so do the feelings of the one betrayed. We may still love them deeply, but it can become downright impossible to shake that feeling of always needing to be one step ahead of them to prevent more harm to you.

I know you are new to SR, but have you tried Al a non yet? I still have loads of work to do on myself and continuously am stuck on the part where I haven't yet accepted what I cannot change. Trusting an untrustworthy person (who has proved it to me all himself over and over again), is just not possible until that person shows you he can be trusted. My problem is that he shows me...all the time that he can't be. Like me, only you will know when you have had enough. It will be up to you when you look at him as what he is and not what you wish he were. Best of luck.

Smarie78

Let me make a correction to my above post - I didn't fully comprehend your post that this was one relapse after a year of hard work and sobriety. So I apologize that my reply made it sound like he keeps breaking your trust. Now I am not saying because he broke it one time after a year it's not bad, but the principal remains the same. Trust is extremely hard to get back when it's broken - be it one time or hundreds of times. IMO, the only way to truly get that trust back is by the persons actions, not words. Once they start doing the work and you are physically seeing it just as you did last March, your trust will naturally get stronger. Their actions are literally the salve to the wound where trusting them is concerned. I think it's normal to have a wall up...it will slowly crumble down when you feel he is trying again. Now, he may not and this can be the start of old habits - but it will be up to you to decide if you give him another chance which is sounds like you have. Good you have made a firm decision. Now just keep doing you and living your life, allow him to live his and see if his actions are showing you an honest effort toward sobriety. If they do...that wall will naturally come down, if there is no effort and he's off the wagon, that wall will remain up rightfully so and it will be time for you to make another decision. If you can live without trust in your relationship (even if you THINK you can it will catch up), or if it's time to take another course.

Mlo1125

Thank you Smarin, no need to apologize, especially because your first assumption was right. The memory of how good he was to me and my kids before alcohol took over his life kept the hope alive and allowance for rebuilding trust, open over the past year. He did do well over the last year and relapsed like a day after the year mark, but, that year was preceded by countless empty promises and lies. It took a long time to build trust in him and his sobriety. He's very impatient and of course thinks I should just trust him, like he's been so trustworthy before. Umm, no. It took 8 months for me to not have that sick feeling of suspicion and relax, and this relapse has just killed something inside of me.
He's my 2nd husband and the only one who has acted like a father to my 4 kids, their dad is very sick and not in their life. My kids adore him, they love him so much and the idea that they could lose not 1 but 2 father's just absolutely breaks my heart and makes me so unbelievably scared. I guess that's actually the reason that i could seem codependent and have the need to control and fix, it's not that I need to fix him, it's that I need to make everything okay for my kids and if he's okay, so are they... does that make any sense? I do love him very much and want for him to be happy and healthy and sober for him and us, but I feel so strongly the instinct to protect my kids from another loss and working things through with him seemed the way to prevent that.

Mlo1125

Smarie78;6365451
Thank you so much for being heartfelt in your reply, it feels less lonely when people like you show that they understand and really "get it" without judgement

Smarie78

Absolutely....this is a judgement-free zone. Now if you are like me and keep going back to crazy town people may judge you a little bit But I understand that part too. I am not married to my A and there are no children between us, and we are financially independent from each other so that is likely where my case can be easily judged. My driver for staying is just my heart, whereas yours involve children whom you are trying to protect so that is very understandable.

And boy don't I know the suspicious sick feeling. Been living with it for the last year and a half. It hits every few months out of the blue. It can be one odd tone in his text message, or just an octave in his voice that lowers just a touch for me to know that he is off to the races on another bender, and it will be another week of me sick to my stomach that this will be the time where he goes to far. It's hard living on that roller coaster. And yes, it's always funny how they expect us to bounce back with trust and normalcy right afterward, completely unaware of the emotional hell they have wrought on us. Trust doesn't work that way, and sometimes alcoholics are unaware of the fury they cause in their paths of destruction.

And yes, it makes perfect sense what you say about protecting him in order to protect your kids. Your mind keeps telling you "if I can just fix him, I can make it all better for everyone and my kids will have the dad they deserve". Unfortunately, we have no more control over what an alcoholic does than we have over keeping the sun from rising tomorrow. Alcoholics can lose their kids, home, family, job, and even their life in order to keep drinking. We can stand in front of that train running 200 mph but we can't stop it. Unfortunately the only guarantee you have in your kids life is your own actions. Even if he does get sober again, alcoholism is always there and can pop up again at any point unless that person is hell bent on keeping it at bay and does the work. Even then, no guarantees.

I would say the best you can do is decide if the risk is worth it for your children. If you think you can work through it and he is hardcore committed to sobriety, people go on to live happy lives with sober folks who are sober for decades and stay that way. But if you aren't sure you can live wth the uncertainty of it, you may want to start thinking about whether you want this for the long haul. It's great he stayed sober for a year, but that is also a relatively short time in the span of the disease. Only you will know the right answer.

NYCDoglvr

He must earn your trust again and the only way he can do that is by staying sober and working a program.

aliciagr

Mio,

My husband is in early recovery also. Earlier than yours but I am working on trust issues also. I am in therapy and talking about my emotions in this way helps. I do think we play a role and I understand what you are saying about putting up walls because I am guilty of this too, I also think about the past and have to learn to accept it, make peace with it and move on. My husband cant change what happened, all he can do it move forward. I have made a lot of progress on this since I started therapy also.

I am afraid of relapse too, but I also know its common and doesnt really mean defeat. It can be a learning experience and just depends on how a person handles it. I think its good you didnt ask him to leave since it looks like he is picking himself back up, I dont think he needs to be punished but actually think he is on the right track trying to figure out what to do, learn what caused it. I personally would not take a stand offish role as I talk with my husband about his therapy sessions (what he wants to share) and we talk about addiction and healing from it. It helps us both, yes the core problem is his, but its also affecting our family so as long as Im respectful and mind personal boundaries then all is well.

Try therapy alone, and with him is my suggestion, Our family therapy sessions have helped us share more and grow closer. Its slow but its working.

I think what you feel is normal stuff, you just need an outlet and maybe some guidance in dealing with the emotions you feel.

Praying

Someone posted this a few years ago when I was struggling with trust...it really helped me frame it. It's much easier to do this when you're able release all control of the outcome--that is, when you know in your heart you'll be okay without him, but you're choosing to hope it can work together. That's very different than being afraid you need to hold the relationship together for other reasons. As someone who left her kids' second "father figure" (their dad lives 1500 miles away and sees them once a year), I tried to remind myself that while having "dad" is desirable, I was enough for my kids, and a happy me is a better me. You sound like a good mother, and I think the same applies to you! The beauty from the ashes of my relationships are the HONEST conversations my kids and I have now. We're so authentic, and I think they're growing up much healthier than they could have. I hope this article helps!

--------------------
He betrayed you—maybe more than once. Then he changed. Now what?
There are few people harder to trust than an addict. He will look you right in the eye and tell you he's clean, tell you he has finally kicked it, is ready to do whatever he must to be able to stay with you and the kids. And then he will go off and score and stay out all night and not phone you till the next day or the day after, at which point he will beg your forgiveness because he has finally learned his lesson, really learned it this time, and this time he is ready to be clean. He has never felt this way before, he'll say; he's had a revelation, it's different this time, can't you see? And you will be unwilling to believe him, but also so desperate to believe him that without clear and constant support from your friends—who, not married to him, not raising children with him, can see his behavior for what it is—you would let him come back home.

But if you have lived with an addict, or with anyone who has betrayed you, and that person tries to regain your trust by consistently being trustworthy, then you may have to learn to trust him again. The fact that he has become trustworthy doesn't make this any less difficult. Because by now you wonder whether you've lost all perspective; if you couldn't trust the person you thought you knew best, how can you trust anything? How can you trust your own judgment? You grapple with that one for a while. You take a kind of inventory of the people you have trusted: who among them has been always reliable, whose dependability comes and goes, who you would leave your children with. You realize that most of the people you do trust actually are worthy; and that though you don't trust the addict, you can trust your friends and yourself. Your trust is like a home. You can sit on the porch and watch the way someone outside behaves, and if you don't like the behavior, you don't have to let him in. You can watch him, you can sit there on the porch and tell him that you're rooting for him and that you hope he gets better, and then you can go inside and close the door. If you're having a good day, you can blow him kisses before you go in. But you don't have to invite him in with you. Your home is secure because you have built clear boundaries around it. Some things are allowed, and others are not. It isn't easy, but it's simple.

Finally, one day you feel comfortable enough to invite him in. And this time, it really is different. You know—and he knows—that the reason you trust yourself enough to say "Come in" is that you also trust yourself enough to say "Get out." Every day you take a leap of faith, choosing to trust him. Being betrayed has provided you with the opportunity to learn how to trust with your eyes open. You will be generous but not stupid.

And then months or years after making the same choice every day and seeing that he is constant in his behavior, you suddenly realize that you have forgotten to make the choice, that you have settled into a position of trust. It is not the blind trust you had before; it is wiser, and more adult. In that way, it is better.

— Anonymous, an East Coast writer, has reestablished a healthy relationship with her formerly drug-addicted partner, whose identity he trusts her to protect

Mlo1125

Thank you guys so much for your responses. I really don't have much support and Alanon is something I'm trying to find time for, but an hour drive there and back with 4 kids, no babysitter and working on a business, is really hard to pull off right now... I'm working on trying to figure something out to get there though. It's been a week and a half since it happened, I think it took me several days before it actually hit me where I could really feel my emotions. Turns out, I'm mad as hell and an emotional mess. All of the past hurts started hurting again, like the scab was ripped off.
He doesn't seem to think he has to figure out a plan for himself or earn my trust back at all. Apparently he has amnesia about the weeks of his depression and shutting down that led to relapse and I'm insane and horribly mean for saying that he has hurt me so badly and that I can't deal with his issues anymore. He twisted it into me saying horrible things and calling him names, but it didn't happen that way, I just don't understand.
I lost it today. After he told me that I was crazy and basically imagined that he had hurt me and needed mental help to deal with everything I was projecting on to him about what happened, I threw a vase across the room and just lost it sobbing. His response was that he could no longer live with such a crazy irrational person and he has to look out for his wellbeing because I'm unstable! But, he won't leave. I am taking my kids to mom's for the weekend to get a break from it. I feel like I'm in the Twilight zone.

SmallButMighty

Big Hugs Mlo.

Living with an alcoholic will absolutely make a person crazy. I know this because it happened to me. You can not reason with an unreasonable person, no matter how hard you try, you just can't... trust me I tried. I also ended up with a serious anxiety disorder and insomnia because of it.

I think it is good you are are taking your kids and going to your mom's. Staying home and listening to more denials, manipulations, blame-shifting and gas-lighting is in no way healthy for your state of mind.

Stay safe and enjoy a few days away from the chaos.

Deep breaths, lots and lots of deep breaths.

LexieCat

Well, the fact that he's invalidating your feelings seems like a pretty good indication you can't trust him emotionally right now. He could be sober as the proverbial judge and he's still not acknowledging your hurt.

You don't have to decide anything this minute. Getting away for a couple of days sounds like a great idea. Does your mom know what's going on? Maybe you could try to make a meeting while your mom takes care of the kiddos.

Mlo1125

Thanks guys. Yes, my mom knows some of it, she's the only one I told about it because she went through it with my father so I knew she'd understand and not judge or throw text book phrases at me. She works weekends, so no babysitting happening, just a place to go and get away for a while and be out of the situation to think more clearly without the emotions that flood when I look at him and the home we have together.