Wells

I've been feeling pretty good lately, and in general quite content with my life and myself. As the stress of my past relationship grows further in the rear view mirror, I've been embracing and learning to appreciate the normalcy that comes with not having to feel like a caretaker or an enabler, even if I've learned how much of that may have been self-afflicted due to my own codependency.

I've learned to be content with myself and also have had the conversation with myself that it's always possible to just live life single, and if that's what happens, that's purely ok. The notion of a partner in life has certainly been the more standard common form of existence in the world, with those who are single often looked down upon vs. those who have coupled. What I'm working on learning is that it's not just about rushing into being coupled off just for the sake of being one of the pack. It's something that has to happen naturally and not be forced.

So, I put a profile up on some dating sites to see what's out there, and I realized that I may have some issues of my own. I feel that I'm setting very high standards for myself and while I'm sure in some ways that's a good thing, I also worry that my relationship with exAGF has thrown me into a state where it will be nearly impossible to be willing to settle for anything now -- The loss of that relationship I think sits with me in a way where I feel that in order to start anything new, she would have to be STELLAR, or it's just not worth the effort.

Naturally, this troubles me. I was on a date today with a girl who was quite nice and admittedly nervous to meet me. I do very well with people and I think that is part of my codie personality. Even if a date is going badly, or conversation stilted, I have this ability to sense the temperature of the room at that person and talk or shift things in a way to make things very comfortable. I guess I'm good "in the room" so to speak. For that reason I don't seem to ever had a bad date in my companion's eyes. But I also don't seem to have that fortitude to point blank admit to someone it's not working for me, whether it be a phone conversation or an in-person date (I don't count texting, which I feel is a very difficult way to get to know someone accurately, but still a nice ice breaker).

So why I am posting this wall of text babble here? I guess what I'm wondering is, for those of you who may have been through the war and come out the other side, especially those of you who were in a long term relationship with an addict, did any of this happen to you? Were you extra picky, or extra people pleasing, but still somehow impossible to please? I'm starting to wonder if there's more work I need to do on myself, to look inside and figure out what I'm doing and if this is either a good thing or a bad thing.

Is it perhaps a good sign that I'm not just willing to jump back into a relationship just for the sake of being in one, and I realize early on that she's not going to work for me? But it is at the same time bad that I have trouble being that blunt about it in person? Or maybe it's worse, am I setting a standard so high that it's nearly unattainable? I am aware of my good qualities as well as my limitations, and certainly do not consider myself god's gift to women (and lord help any guy who does) but I also maybe feel like I'm starting to value myself more to be at the point where I can date, but know that I am not going to get involved with someone just to fill the void of my ex.

Maybe this post isn't making sense, and I'll need to come back and correct it, but I would welcome any thoughts from any of you who have gone through the PTSD of a long term relationship with an A and how you navigated the waters of future relationships afterward.

Much love!

dandylion

Wells...it is a jungle,out there, in the dating world. Not just for those who were in a relationship with an A...but, for everyone who is in the game......

Lol...I don't know what your "standards" are, but, I would love to see the list......

Lets say, for example that you like someone who has lots of curiosity and interest in the world around them....hang out at the National /geographic society meetings...go to their activities.
If you like those that are active nature lovers...Join the Appalachian trail club....
If you like the cerebral type, join a specific book club....
There is community theater groups, bird watching clubs, political activist clubs,
etc.
In other words...go to target rich environments and those with similar interests will have a mutual attraction...and, vice versa.
Personally, I think that the internet is not a good representation of "what is out there". What looks good on paper...what matches up there...does not necessarily transmit to real life attraction......
I think that you would have to do a lot of casting to get a good bite or two....
You have to be able to (politely) cut it off....if it is a " no go".....
something simple...like....."I don't see this working out as far as a dating relationship....though you have been wonderful company. I truly wish you the best".....

If you live in an isolated area...maybe, it would be best to consider a geographic change.....to a more metropolitan area....

for myself, I always found that I met desirable people while I was in the process of living, myself...and they just showed up.....no "dating sites" involved!

Nata1980

I have been separated for a year, divorced for 6 months, and have not initiated contact with XAH during this time (he did). I am pretty much over him.

Even then - I have NO interest in men whatsoever.

I will just sit here with my cats and knitting and wait for Prince Charming I suppose

Jokes aside - picky is good.

alyn528

So In my IOP class we was talking about relationships and we did this activity I figured I'd share it with you since I saw your post. So write out however many you want my counselor made us do "60 things of What you want in an relationship." because in relationships we tend to settle for whoever and not for who we deserve.

hopeful4

I can only say for myself that I have not put my toe back in the water. I have huge trust issues and am very suspicious of people. It's something I am working on.

Just know you are not alone in feeling this way.

DesertEyes

My 20 year marriage ended due to her addiction. Getting back into life afterward was very, very hard. New relationships were just a small part of the "re-entry" for me. I had focused my entire life on the marriage, I had become "us" and lost the healthier concept of "team".

I was given all the standard advice you see all over the internet, all over the shelves at the bookstore, that you get from all the therapists. Like take a couple years to build a new life into which a new team member could contribute. A life that could be my healthy contribution to _her_ life.

What I did was ignore all that advice and jumped into a re-bound relationship with a lady I met in al-anon. Lucky for me she is an exceptionally healthy woman and we managed to stumble thru without any major hurts. Today we are best of friends, and we both have grown and built new lives. We're just not really a good team, just good friends.

A year after that I had a lot more recovery, a lot more awareness as to my own shortcomings and unhealthy emotional "reflexes" and I met another wonderful, lovely woman. This time I took it a lot slower, followed the standard suggestions and we built a fantastic relationship over 5 years. It was awesome.

Until she relapsed. And then I was able to pull away without making things worse, without drama, without chaos.

I find that relationships are like anything else in life. It's hard and complicated and messy. If I don't have my own emotional health in order I just make everything worse. The real secret is not in figuring out "them", it is in figuring out me and how to recognize, and compensate, for my own limitations and weaknesses.

Mike

firebolt

Yeah, I am fairly indifferent to finding a relationship at the moment. I'm just enjoying the peace after 5 years living with an addict. The stress of my last relationship is forefront in my mind when I go on dates, and I am hypersensitive to any sort of red flags that I could land in the same sort of situation.

I figure that if the right one were to come along, I would be willing to let go of all the fears of failure, all the fears of my issues surfacing, and all the fears of me not having enough recovery time. To date, it just hasn't happened and I'm totally ok with that. There's something to be said for life being simple and easy, and it's going to take one hell of a guy for me to be willing to change that....and I think that's a GOOD thing.

I don't even know what the right person looks like, but I sure as hell know what they DON'T look like. I think we should stop considering that our standards might be too high and focus on weighing if the person we're seeing measures up to them. Our problem was not our high standards, our problem is that our standards go out the window for a cute face and boisterous personality that swoons for us and makes us feel good for a moment.

Hangnbyathread

Man does this post ring some familiar bells with me. The PTSD aspects and the rejoining the dating scene aspects. I have come out on the other side but it didn't come quickly or easily for me.

First. You have to be ready to date. Not date just to avoid being alone. It took me 2 years to be ready. I spent the first 6 months beating myself up at how stupid I was for being sucked into my past XAGF's world of addiction. It sort of emotionally poisons us to an extent. And I needed time to get over that. I couldn't be hard on myself, and I couldn't be hard on someone new just because of this toxic past. So after 2 years of self centering myself and finding an inner peace again, I made an appointment with the same therapist that helped me start to realize I was dealing with an addicted partner.

In a nutshell, it came down to this. Date what makes you comfortable. Do what makes you comfortable. Your personality that you had before that wreck of a relationship you had, will come back again. Nobody will be perfect. Including you. Like you, I was always a pretty open, social, could work a room kind of guy. By the time I broke up I was depressed, repressed, didn't want to go out etc. My therapist said, you'll get that back, you just have to be back to your old self again.

That means you will learn to date all over again. I had lots of duds. But I always try to remain a gentleman first and for as long as possible. I generally could tell halfway through the first date if things seemed good. Some didn't like to hear that they were being rejected, others didn't like having to figure out how to reject me. But I always tried to be forthcoming and open and gentle if possible.

Point 1. There is nothing wrong with standards.
You deserve to recognize and seek out what you feel will work best for you. I knew what worked for me in the past and I had no reason to change that expectation now. However realize that as we age, the number that fit that high standard may mean that it will be a long while before that rare find happens. But yes I struggled with how realistic am I being aspects of it.

So I was pretty sure I was going to be alone after dating probably 6 or 7 different first dates.

Point 2.
PTSD is one thing yes, but obvious patterns of looming disaster are entirely different. I learned a few things about my area geographically here. This is a drinking culture. They have holidays that are dedicated to drinking and partying. I quickly learned that what they find normal and comfortable for them was not the same for me. I didn't need to evaluate them for alcoholism, not my place to, but if it made me uncomfortable, I was done, and nothing was going to change my view there.

Further this is a very family and church oriented (Bible Belt) here. I have no kids and I don't go to church. There is nothing wrong with them. There is nothing wrong with me either. But it is what it is. I never came across a single woman with no children. Doesn't mean they are bad people, just means they are not what I'm used to. My XAGF had kids and like it or not, I became a surrogate parental presence. I made the best of that, felt some responsibility to show them a positive role model. In the end that was pointless. You will get trashed by the mom if things don't go well. So while I didn't mind dating women with children, I pretty much told myself I didn't want to go there again. So why expends the time and money there if you were seeking a partner.

Which cut down my options greatly.

Point 3: THIS IS MY PERSONAL VIEW: I am not a professional. For me, any woman that seems to be in a great hurry to A)sleep with me B) want to say I'm the right guy for them or C)start stalking me after the first date, are immediate red flags to me. Stalking doesn't have to be creepy, you feel it when you feel it.

Point 4: Don't date below you. And I'm going to be delicate here because this may come off hurting feelings and I'm not trying to. If they have different backgrounds, different lifestyles, different outlooks, etc., don't date them. Let me put it this way. Example. You have a high stress job. Lots of hours. They have a minimum wage job. Neither of this makes either of you bad people, it just makes it harder to relate to one another.

I'll leave it at that as that is about the most neutral way I can write anything that doesn't sound offensive.

Point 5: Don't put it on a timeline. It will happen when it happens. In my case, I met my current and maybe last relationship totally by chance at a new restaurant that was opening. We both were shocked at how well we seemed to get along from the very first moment. And we are now 6 months into it and I admit that I have never been so "At Peace" with someone as I am with her. And she feels the same way. I actually felt myself feeling like I wasn't good enough for her. Oddly she felt that same way about me. It makes you nervous when it seems to good to be true. Especially after my XAGF was as sweet and nice as can be.....in the beginning.

As it turns out she is a physician here and she understands addictions better than most. Most of her patients had alcohol related troubles in one form or another. That brought me a great sense of peace that she knew what I had been through.

My G/F has no kids, by choice. Had never found a man that didn't have kids. Likes that I am older and centered and drama free.

I was the same rare find to her as she was to me.

Sometimes that's the way it needs to be.

Wells

Thanks for all the thoughts. I have learned a lot from your replies and feel better about the way I'm approaching things, too. I think what I'm the worst at is giving out rejection -- I am a people person and even if I'm not feeling it on a date, I try my best to have a great conversation and make the most of our time. But then I feel guilty I am being misleading as well. Just a skill I will need to learn. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

I guess I feel like a have a pretty good self-worth, self-image and a lot to offer. I'd like to meet someone of similar intellect, similar success in a career, stability, similar outlook on life and life situation. Add in the fact of the age group and not too strong a desire to involve kids and the recipe gets tougher to satisfy. But I have come to terms with all that. I don't think it should be wrong for us to set standards such as a good career, morals, intelligence, and yes, even the dreaded appearance, when choose whom to date. I like to think I am opened minded, and I have been with the girls I talk to, but at the end of the day, wouldn't it be more codie-like to settle just to "have someone" vs. being picky enough to really wait for the right one?

Hangn - Your post is great as it really does a good job summarizing my situation as well. At my age of 43, I feel like I'm in a weird spot -- Dating much past my age feels "too old" and dating a lot younger obviously is too weird. Since I don't have kids, and never wanted kids, finding someone in this age range in the suburbs will be a huge challenge and I'm just going to need to come to terms with that. I really don't feel inclined to date someone with kids or start a family at this stage of life, which as you wisely note seems to severely limit the dating pool. But that's okay. It makes me a little sad that it didn't work out with my ex who really was perfect for me in a lot of ways, but she could not and did not desire to beat her addiction, so I still stand by my decision. Better to be alone and struggling through the dating pool than dealing with addiction on a daily basis.

All that said, your story gives me hope! I like what some of you said about just going about life and seeing what happens. I am looking forward to being more involved and engaged in social activities where I might just run into other singles, as I find that to be a more natural opportunity to hit it off with someone than the dating sites, which are admittedly superficial (and that's a 2 way street). The ideal relationship for me would start with a spark of conversation that just happened organically when I wasn't even looking. Hangn I'm glad you found that and I am happy for you -- It gives me hope also! Congrats.

dandylion

I found it a l ot easier to date people that I had already met and had some attraction to, already.....rather than discover, half way through a date that the attraction was just not there.

firebolt

This.

Wells, I can't help but think I've stayed in "not right" relationships FAR past their expiration date at least in part, for this same reason. I hate being the bad guy (girl), the bearer of bad news, the one giving up, the one letting someone down....partially because I want everyone to like me, and partially because, what if i'm WRONG and making the wrong choice?!

I'll be 40 in April, and facing dating right now is crazy, fun, absurd and a big pain in the butt at times.

I do not like being the one to break up, at all. The last year has given me some much needed practice in saying no, and walking away, and leaving it away. I've found some creative ways to say "we're not it." I've had to trust myself in saying "not this" and then stick to it without reaching out "as friends" to someone I've let go....just because I want to make them feel better.

AND - how badly some guys take me saying "we're not it" is directly proportionate to how badly I want to reach out to them to fix it after the deed is done. It is crazy!

I can recommend practicing your let down speech - often! Practicing dodging the questions that can follow. It will get easier - maybe too easy Promise!

SparkleKitty

Telling someone that you don't think there is a strong connection after the first date will hurt a LOT fewer feelings than dragging it out.

Hangnbyathread

Rejection isn't easy. Look at it this way. You should be willing to take it yourself before you can offer it to someone else. If you can't take someone not liking you for some reason, then don't date.

Personally for me I appreciate someone telling me that they don't think we are a fit early rather than drag it out. It may not be pleasant to hear, but it is best to get it over with sooner rather than later.

As such, I try to say nicely, I have had a nice time in our date but I don't feel we are compatible. While I know that it may hurt their feelings, I'd rather get that over with than make it worse by dragging it out with them. Go home, chalk it up to dating and move on. It isn't nearly as personal to me if I get it over with quickly.....no matter the direction.

Yes I have had them get upset with me. That's part of the trials and tribulations of dating. Pay the bill, get up, excuse yourself and get going.

Without getting onto long winded descriptions of those that went badly, lets just say that when they happen, it gives you POSITIVE RE-ENFORCEMENT that you know you're doing the right thing.

" Better to be alone and struggling through the dating pool than dealing with addiction on a daily basis."

Live by this. Rejections can take up 5-10 minutes of your time and you remain true to you. Yes they may smart from it but it had to be said to save you from another bad path.

I look back on my ex and can say there were about 200 times that I should have said, I am not comfortable with XXXXXX. Instead I decided to listen to her convince me as to why I was the problem, not her. Oddly I saw that a LOT to the ones I dated and rejected. I learned to just keep your mouth shut, get out quickly and get away from them. There will be dozens of men that will be the problem for some of them.

I will be 57 in four months. I am not looking to date many women. I'll either find one or I will be alone. I am not playing games and making up stories that younger men do. I lay it out pretty quickly and openly. I find many like that. Trust me I know how you feel about what this age brings. To be honest....and please noone flame me....I am not trying to sound shallow. When I see what 50 looked like around here I said I will be single...sorry. I take care of myself. I hoped to find someone my age that was the same. But I gave up. It was rare I found any of them appealing either physically or emotionally.

My g/f is 42. I told her I was somewhat concerned about that. Told her my age......she was shocked. I thought you were like maybe 45 she said. Still I was concerned. Oddly it took her the most effort to help me get comfy with our age difference. I felt caddy. Or worried about what others would think of me. Oh you have to have younger huh? Trying to feel younger are you. Why don't you date your own age.......etc.

You know what......now I not only don't care.....as far as I know it has never been said by anyone. The only people that need to work it out are us. Period.

Come to learn that my maturity brings about my self comfort, my ease of communication, my wisdom, my willingness to express my faults and strengths.

All things she finds apparently pretty sexy.

LynCM

Just from what you've said here, it sounds like you might have a hard time saying 'no.' That's very common codie behavior, as is people pleasing, and I know I personally have to battle with these still. While I'm still in my relationship with my recovering AH, I can totally see where your standards would shift once you're back in the dating pool. Good on you for getting back out there, but don't forget to get back in touch with yourself.

TobeC

I am waiting to see where my 27 year relationship goes but from talking to singles from 40 to 50 it is no walk in the park. Here is what they've told me to expect. The relationship sites are a crap shoot. People our age all have baggage and tons of it. The pics are often as good as it gets and people lie about their age, job, past relationships, past addictions or issues, and even their kids. It's rather disheartening. It's kind of like selling a house in that all houses eventually sell but don't be in a hurry and expect to put a lot of time in. In a side note, a friend of mine who is single and a guy said that when a woman describes her shape, athletic means average, average is overweight a bit, and curvy is on the far end of the spectrum. Lol.

maia1234

Well,
Good for you for reaching out to start dating. That's a huge step for you.

I personally can't give you any advice. I am divorced almost 2 1/2 years. Was with axh for 34 years. I never dated any one else, as I was 15 years old when we started dating. I have taken the last two years, and tried to find out who maia is. It sure is hard, as I have always hidden myself behind my "fun loving" addict. Ugh!!

I have no interest in on line dating, as I hear awful things about the people on there. I believe that I will find love again. I have given it to God to take care of it for me, as the paths that I have chosen have not always been the best choices for me.

The men who I find the most attractive (of say my married friends husband's) are kind, and thoughtful, and respectful and just plain nice. (and hopefully a non drinker) I know I am weird, but that is what I am looking for in a man. I would much rather have beauty on the inside then on the outside. The beauty on the outside disappears with age, on the inside it wilI always be there. That's just my 2 cents. Good luck with dating, its not easy, but your a good guy, be patient, there's a lot of good women out there.

Ladybird579

3 years post divorce and 8 years post separation I have a boyfriend. I didn't meet him online as online dating for me is a no no. However over a year in I've realised, much as we love each other, it won't be going anywhere. My red flag radar is too finely honed now and things that are deal breakers for me would not have been if I had not spent 20 years with exah. We are gravitating to friends tho am not sure if he's realised it or always thought it. Part of me is sad that my inability to commit means I chose him cos he cannot commit either and my fantasy of a happy ever after relationship won't be happening. He's not an alcoholic but my enabling streak has come out more times than I am happy with. I feel too weary, too cynical to trust anyone again. I can't imagine meeting anyone now but am happy on my own. I think maybe you aren't ready yet. I certainly wasn't. I still aren't really.

honeypig

I aren't either, Ladybird--not by a long, long shot. While that would have been a source of tremendous sadness and worry for me even a few years ago, it so ISN'T now. I've spent virtually my whole life in some kind of relationship, and I'm 56. I think I owe it to myself to give MYSELF some time and attention for a while.

Ladybird579

I am also 56 and have had relationships I poured my heart and soul into that ultimately destroyed my life. I am enjoying just being me now and finding out who I am.

honeypig

Hugs, my Ladybird friend