what kind of disease is alcoholism?
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what kind of disease is alcoholism?
There was some discussion on another thread about alcoholism and how one would expect a person with other illnesses, such as cancer, to seek treatment. So part of what makes alcoholism so frustrating for friends/family is that the sick person often doesn't want to be 'cured,' i.e. to get into recovery.
But is the cancer analogy apt? Or is alcoholism more like Alzheimer's in that it distorts the sufferer's perception of reality, so s/he doesn't think anything is wrong?
Therefore effective treatment would have to include something (an experience? a drug?) that causes the sufferer to re-examine his/her perceptions.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I wondered what others thought.
But is the cancer analogy apt? Or is alcoholism more like Alzheimer's in that it distorts the sufferer's perception of reality, so s/he doesn't think anything is wrong?
Therefore effective treatment would have to include something (an experience? a drug?) that causes the sufferer to re-examine his/her perceptions.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I wondered what others thought.
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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This is the way alcoholism was explained to me in my AA program (I have no knowledge or experience with how the other recovery programs explain it):
Alcoholism is a disease that centers in the mind. It's a mental illness. It's the only disease that tells you that you don't have it, so to speak, and that's why many don't go into recovery. Our minds tell us we don't have a problem.
Alcoholism also has a physical allergy component which is really hard to explain and probably needs to be experienced to understand fully. The solution is a spiritual awakening in which we learn a new way of thinking and reacting to life. Alcoholism isn't about alcohol--it's that the obsession and compulsion to use alcohol was our solution to our alcoholism.
Effective treatment has nothing to do with a drug. An experience, yes. The 12 step work helps one to re-examine his past and present perceptions and reactions to life. A "new design for living" as the steps are called.
No the cancer analogy is not apt. Alcoholism is a "disease", yes. But not like "cancer".
No I wouldn't equate alcoholism with Alzheimer's either because Alzheimer's is like a deterioration in the brain. A spiritual awakening would not help improve the brain of someone with Alzheimer's I imagine.
I can't help but wonder what your motive is for your post and why you mentioned the question about using an "experience" or "drug" for treatment. I am not sure I understand what you meant.
I suggest it might answer your questions if you read The Doctor's Opinion in the book Alcoholics Anonymous which was written by Dr Carl Jung, psychiatrist. I suggest you read it keeping in mind the verbiage used in the 1930s.
I'm not very good at explaining this sort of thing. I'm hoping someone else who's better with writing can chime in.
If you wanted to hear from only friends and family and not someone of both f&f and AA/recovery, then please ask one of the moderators to delete my post.
Alcoholism is a disease that centers in the mind. It's a mental illness. It's the only disease that tells you that you don't have it, so to speak, and that's why many don't go into recovery. Our minds tell us we don't have a problem.
Alcoholism also has a physical allergy component which is really hard to explain and probably needs to be experienced to understand fully. The solution is a spiritual awakening in which we learn a new way of thinking and reacting to life. Alcoholism isn't about alcohol--it's that the obsession and compulsion to use alcohol was our solution to our alcoholism.
Effective treatment has nothing to do with a drug. An experience, yes. The 12 step work helps one to re-examine his past and present perceptions and reactions to life. A "new design for living" as the steps are called.
No the cancer analogy is not apt. Alcoholism is a "disease", yes. But not like "cancer".
No I wouldn't equate alcoholism with Alzheimer's either because Alzheimer's is like a deterioration in the brain. A spiritual awakening would not help improve the brain of someone with Alzheimer's I imagine.
I can't help but wonder what your motive is for your post and why you mentioned the question about using an "experience" or "drug" for treatment. I am not sure I understand what you meant.
I suggest it might answer your questions if you read The Doctor's Opinion in the book Alcoholics Anonymous which was written by Dr Carl Jung, psychiatrist. I suggest you read it keeping in mind the verbiage used in the 1930s.
I'm not very good at explaining this sort of thing. I'm hoping someone else who's better with writing can chime in.
If you wanted to hear from only friends and family and not someone of both f&f and AA/recovery, then please ask one of the moderators to delete my post.
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I just wanted to add that some of us admit that we have a problem sooner than others, and some later than others. Everyone's bottom is different. We can't want to be "recovered" (never cured) until we admit we have a problem. It's hard to explain.
It's sort of like this: If you were addicted to cigarettes, and were in complete denial that smoking was going to give you lung cancer probably and cause you to die an early death, and that it was harming your toddler, your spouse, etc., that's sort of what alcoholism is like. So no, that's not like cancer or Alzheimer's.
You're physically addicted to the nicotine, in that your body craves it. But even when nicotine isn't in your body, you obsess about smoking a cigarette to the point you can't concentrate on anything else. That's sort of what it's like, but it's deeper than that with alcoholism because of the root causes of alcoholism and how it manifests. With that, it is not anything like cigarette smoking. Then again I could be wrong, if there is a Nicotine Anonymous program out there, that would be similar then. But I am assuming the majority of people addicted to cigarette smoking view it as a "bad habit" and are fine once they stop. Not so with true alcoholism.
But I brought up that example to illustrate the point about the "denial" that are minds go through, even if we were told we were gonna die from lung cancer, or were killing our spouse or child because of our smoking habit.
Could someone please chime in and explain this better?
It's sort of like this: If you were addicted to cigarettes, and were in complete denial that smoking was going to give you lung cancer probably and cause you to die an early death, and that it was harming your toddler, your spouse, etc., that's sort of what alcoholism is like. So no, that's not like cancer or Alzheimer's.
You're physically addicted to the nicotine, in that your body craves it. But even when nicotine isn't in your body, you obsess about smoking a cigarette to the point you can't concentrate on anything else. That's sort of what it's like, but it's deeper than that with alcoholism because of the root causes of alcoholism and how it manifests. With that, it is not anything like cigarette smoking. Then again I could be wrong, if there is a Nicotine Anonymous program out there, that would be similar then. But I am assuming the majority of people addicted to cigarette smoking view it as a "bad habit" and are fine once they stop. Not so with true alcoholism.
But I brought up that example to illustrate the point about the "denial" that are minds go through, even if we were told we were gonna die from lung cancer, or were killing our spouse or child because of our smoking habit.
Could someone please chime in and explain this better?
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Join Date: May 2012
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I was watching a good interview with dr. drew recently and he explains addiction as being a mental health issue along the same lines as say bi-polar, anxiety, etc,..
I personally don't think it's a disease, but it can be looked at that way in the fact that it is something that progressively gets worse and worse over time.
Like other mental health issues, many people deny they have a problem and unfortunately only a small number of people with it actively accept it and choose to seek help.
Addiction can be especially hard with the denial as your life can be crumbling around you, and you will make up every excuse in the book about how everything else in the world is the problem, but in actuality, it's all because of the booze.
I personally don't think it's a disease, but it can be looked at that way in the fact that it is something that progressively gets worse and worse over time.
Like other mental health issues, many people deny they have a problem and unfortunately only a small number of people with it actively accept it and choose to seek help.
Addiction can be especially hard with the denial as your life can be crumbling around you, and you will make up every excuse in the book about how everything else in the world is the problem, but in actuality, it's all because of the booze.
lillyknitting
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Loughton, Essex, England
Posts: 638
Originally Posted by Centered3 
This is the way alcoholism was explained to me in my AA program (I have no knowledge or experience with how the other recovery programs explain it):
Alcoholism is a disease that centers in the mind. It's a mental illness. It's the only disease that tells you that you don't have it, so to speak, and that's why many don't go into recovery. Our minds tell us we don't have a problem.
Alcoholism also has a physical allergy component which is really hard to explain and probably needs to be experienced to understand fully. The solution is a spiritual awakening in which we learn a new way of thinking and reacting to life. Alcoholism isn't about alcohol--it's that the obsession and compulsion to use alcohol was our solution to our alcoholism.
Effective treatment has nothing to do with a drug. An experience, yes. The 12 step work helps one to re-examine his past and present perceptions and reactions to life. A "new design for living" as the steps are called.
No the cancer analogy is not apt. Alcoholism is a "disease", yes. But not like "cancer".
No I wouldn't equate alcoholism with Alzheimer's either because Alzheimer's is like a deterioration in the brain. A spiritual awakening would not help improve the brain of someone with Alzheimer's I imagine.
I can't help but wonder what your motive is for your post and why you mentioned the question about using an "experience" or "drug" for treatment. I am not sure I understand what you meant.
I suggest it might answer your questions if you read The Doctor's Opinion in the book Alcoholics Anonymous which was written by Dr Carl Jung, psychiatrist. I suggest you read it keeping in mind the verbiage used in the 1930s.
I'm not very good at explaining this sort of thing. I'm hoping someone else who's better with writing can chime in.
If you wanted to hear from only friends and family and not someone of both f&f and AA/recovery, then please ask one of the moderators to delete my post.
Alcoholism is a disease that centers in the mind. It's a mental illness. It's the only disease that tells you that you don't have it, so to speak, and that's why many don't go into recovery. Our minds tell us we don't have a problem.
Alcoholism also has a physical allergy component which is really hard to explain and probably needs to be experienced to understand fully. The solution is a spiritual awakening in which we learn a new way of thinking and reacting to life. Alcoholism isn't about alcohol--it's that the obsession and compulsion to use alcohol was our solution to our alcoholism.
Effective treatment has nothing to do with a drug. An experience, yes. The 12 step work helps one to re-examine his past and present perceptions and reactions to life. A "new design for living" as the steps are called.
No the cancer analogy is not apt. Alcoholism is a "disease", yes. But not like "cancer".
No I wouldn't equate alcoholism with Alzheimer's either because Alzheimer's is like a deterioration in the brain. A spiritual awakening would not help improve the brain of someone with Alzheimer's I imagine.
I can't help but wonder what your motive is for your post and why you mentioned the question about using an "experience" or "drug" for treatment. I am not sure I understand what you meant.
I suggest it might answer your questions if you read The Doctor's Opinion in the book Alcoholics Anonymous which was written by Dr Carl Jung, psychiatrist. I suggest you read it keeping in mind the verbiage used in the 1930s.
I'm not very good at explaining this sort of thing. I'm hoping someone else who's better with writing can chime in.
If you wanted to hear from only friends and family and not someone of both f&f and AA/recovery, then please ask one of the moderators to delete my post.
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 430
Thank you, Centered3 and everyone else. My motive is to understand why my STBXAH has such different perceptions from me as well as to develop more empathy for him, if such is called for.
It's hard to have empathy for someone who refuses available treatment for an ailment (unless the treatment has odious side effects, which may or may not be an unrelated issue).
But if the sufferer doesn't perceive him/herself as ill or in need of treatment, while from the outside it is clear that his/her drinking is causing chaos for him/herself and others, then, yes, alcoholism seems akin to a mental disorder as much as (or in addition to) a physical one.
I feel like I'm not making much sense, myself, but I find this a very interesting question and appreciate the insights of others.
It's hard to have empathy for someone who refuses available treatment for an ailment (unless the treatment has odious side effects, which may or may not be an unrelated issue).
But if the sufferer doesn't perceive him/herself as ill or in need of treatment, while from the outside it is clear that his/her drinking is causing chaos for him/herself and others, then, yes, alcoholism seems akin to a mental disorder as much as (or in addition to) a physical one.
I feel like I'm not making much sense, myself, but I find this a very interesting question and appreciate the insights of others.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,981
It can be very frustrating when everyone around you knows you have a problem, yet they still will do nothing about it, even if their lives and those around them are completely destroyed.
Unfortunately few addicts and alcoholics come to the realization that the booze is destroying everything around them. Many can lose everything and be living on the streets, but as long as they have their sauce, all is good.
Unfortunately few addicts and alcoholics come to the realization that the booze is destroying everything around them. Many can lose everything and be living on the streets, but as long as they have their sauce, all is good.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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To me, it's sort of a 'thinking problem'. I consider it a mental disorder that can become a mental illness. I think like many mental disorders, it is part biological and part environmental--which plays the larger role is unknown.
As much as people talk about genetics, alcoholism and addiction are not single Mendellian gene traits that people inherit in the same way as eye color. It is much more complicated than that. It seems to me that anything that involves human personality and behavior is very complicated with no simple, easy, quick solutions when it comes to treatment.
I suppose that's what I rail against...I want people to be better, now!
As much as people talk about genetics, alcoholism and addiction are not single Mendellian gene traits that people inherit in the same way as eye color. It is much more complicated than that. It seems to me that anything that involves human personality and behavior is very complicated with no simple, easy, quick solutions when it comes to treatment.
I suppose that's what I rail against...I want people to be better, now!
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I think it's probably a mix of inherited affinity with alcohol combined with life's circumstances, and a fair dose of environment. I read somewhere that whatever the society, man has a natural tendency towards mind altering substances, whether it be kava, or mushrooms or weed....With alcohol:
- You can get the rare person who has a problem from their very first drink, regardless of their mental stability or upbringing.
- Some people, and I count myself in this category, have a natural affinity for alcohol but may not develop a problem with it for many years, or ever, depending on their environment and self-control. Once they start drinking heavily they can't return to the take it or leave it stage
- others may enjoy a drink in specific circumstances but can take it or leave it without a second thought.
Like many conditions, genetics and circumstances can combine to produce different outcomes, but the brain is amazingly adaptable, and I believe once you've wired it to enjoy drinking to excess it can't be undone, which is why deciding to moderate might have been possible at one time, but is usually too hard for the A.
- You can get the rare person who has a problem from their very first drink, regardless of their mental stability or upbringing.
- Some people, and I count myself in this category, have a natural affinity for alcohol but may not develop a problem with it for many years, or ever, depending on their environment and self-control. Once they start drinking heavily they can't return to the take it or leave it stage
- others may enjoy a drink in specific circumstances but can take it or leave it without a second thought.
Like many conditions, genetics and circumstances can combine to produce different outcomes, but the brain is amazingly adaptable, and I believe once you've wired it to enjoy drinking to excess it can't be undone, which is why deciding to moderate might have been possible at one time, but is usually too hard for the A.
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I am fascinated by epigenetics, a science that is beginning to understand how behaviors can actually alter existing gene expression. I had always thought that it would take generations to alter genetic expression but it appears that behaviors can actually alter our existing genetic makeup.
This seems to correlate with the concepts of heritability. I am 3rd generation alcoholic (and perhaps it goes back farther than that). I grew up with chaos and an alcoholic mother, who grew up with chaos and an alcoholic mother. Did she pass down a predisposition to me or did my genes alter after birth as a result of trauma? To some degree this is the old nature/nurture question.... However, it is doubtful that any child with an actively alcoholic parent grows up in a stable and peaceful environment, and epigenetics seems to point to the question of whether this results in recoding our existing genetic expression. I am not a scientist so a lot of this is over my head.
https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicati...43/293-305.htm
I think this science is going to be extremely important in the future and will help with dealing with addiction. Recovery rates continue to be dismal and sadly the money is directed towards dealing with the wreckage as a result of addiction. The NIAAA estimates that only a third of all alcoholics get sober. If one in ten people are afflicted then we are losing too many people. And that is just focusing on the actual alcoholic and not the major negative impact that person has on family, coworkers, society, etc. How much money is spent on the judicial system, healthcare, unemployment and too many other areas to even list, as a result of the impact of alcoholism? We continue to pour funding into the consequences while ignoring the genesis.
I believe that the profound change that is necessary to capture the scores of people whose lives are ruined is going to come from science.For instance my doctor found i have a mutation in the MTHFR gene. It is complex but this mutation results in an interruption of the methylation process.... The end result affects the liver's capacity to dopamine, serotonin and melatonin. (way more complex than i am describing.)
I began ADD meds and a supplement that helps my body with the methylation process and at 3 1/2 years i have not struggled with cravings or urges since I got sober. I understand that I was extremely lucky to have the opportunity to have such issues addressed, but my concern is that my situation shouldn't be the exception.
If we apply the definition of insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results to alcohol treatment, then something isn't working for 2/3 of the affected population.
To me, one bright spot in treatment is the fact that sites like SR exist. When my mother got sober 35 years ago being an alcoholic seeking treatment was a clandestine affair. People can now sit in their homes and become educated about the affliction as well as find options for help. Addiction has been mainstreamed because of social networking, that is a huge plus. Perhaps coupled with advances in science inroads can be made to address this complicated affliction.
This seems to correlate with the concepts of heritability. I am 3rd generation alcoholic (and perhaps it goes back farther than that). I grew up with chaos and an alcoholic mother, who grew up with chaos and an alcoholic mother. Did she pass down a predisposition to me or did my genes alter after birth as a result of trauma? To some degree this is the old nature/nurture question.... However, it is doubtful that any child with an actively alcoholic parent grows up in a stable and peaceful environment, and epigenetics seems to point to the question of whether this results in recoding our existing genetic expression. I am not a scientist so a lot of this is over my head.
https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicati...43/293-305.htm
I think this science is going to be extremely important in the future and will help with dealing with addiction. Recovery rates continue to be dismal and sadly the money is directed towards dealing with the wreckage as a result of addiction. The NIAAA estimates that only a third of all alcoholics get sober. If one in ten people are afflicted then we are losing too many people. And that is just focusing on the actual alcoholic and not the major negative impact that person has on family, coworkers, society, etc. How much money is spent on the judicial system, healthcare, unemployment and too many other areas to even list, as a result of the impact of alcoholism? We continue to pour funding into the consequences while ignoring the genesis.
I believe that the profound change that is necessary to capture the scores of people whose lives are ruined is going to come from science.For instance my doctor found i have a mutation in the MTHFR gene. It is complex but this mutation results in an interruption of the methylation process.... The end result affects the liver's capacity to dopamine, serotonin and melatonin. (way more complex than i am describing.)
I began ADD meds and a supplement that helps my body with the methylation process and at 3 1/2 years i have not struggled with cravings or urges since I got sober. I understand that I was extremely lucky to have the opportunity to have such issues addressed, but my concern is that my situation shouldn't be the exception.
If we apply the definition of insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results to alcohol treatment, then something isn't working for 2/3 of the affected population.
To me, one bright spot in treatment is the fact that sites like SR exist. When my mother got sober 35 years ago being an alcoholic seeking treatment was a clandestine affair. People can now sit in their homes and become educated about the affliction as well as find options for help. Addiction has been mainstreamed because of social networking, that is a huge plus. Perhaps coupled with advances in science inroads can be made to address this complicated affliction.
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As a footnote, the embedded article does reference methylation which is the process that i now take a supplement for. I by no means believe there is a magic bullet but if science can begin to chip away at the underlying physiological processes then I am all for it.
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IMHO, it meets the definition of a disease; a specific physical and/or mental disorder that left untreated, will only get worse.
But I tend to think of it as a symptom of mental illness/clinical depression, that has to be treated with sobriety, as well as addressing the deeper issue of depression, self-loathing, inability to deal with anxiety, etc. I'm not saying that applies to everyone, but with me, it is the way I have dealt with many years of depression and self-loathing. No matter how my drinking started, I became an alcoholic when I realized I was not worth loving and never had been, and not worth saving. As someone at AA said to me, "suicide by inches".
But I tend to think of it as a symptom of mental illness/clinical depression, that has to be treated with sobriety, as well as addressing the deeper issue of depression, self-loathing, inability to deal with anxiety, etc. I'm not saying that applies to everyone, but with me, it is the way I have dealt with many years of depression and self-loathing. No matter how my drinking started, I became an alcoholic when I realized I was not worth loving and never had been, and not worth saving. As someone at AA said to me, "suicide by inches".
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There have been some Epic Threads on this topic:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...m-disease.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-thinking.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ed-denial.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...m-disease.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-thinking.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ed-denial.html
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To new it seems like it is a combination genetic predisposition, coupled with some developmental issues (lack of coping skills, immaturity). Mental illness? I know it is classified as such, I have my doubts. I do believe that disease concept is useful to the person being treated, but on the other hand how about "character defects" that "can be removed through working 12 steps"
At the end of the day - I don't really care what it is called - I am just staying away from addicts.
At the end of the day - I don't really care what it is called - I am just staying away from addicts.
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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So much good food for thought here; thank you.
FeelingGreat: "Man has a natural tendency towards mind altering substances, whether it be kava, or mushrooms or weed."--This reminds me of an article I read about how even children will spin around to make themselves dizzy and mind-altered, again and again.
Seren: "Thinking problem." I like that. Makes sense.
Jaynie04: My STBXAH is at least the third generation in his family to suffer from alcoholism, too. Like you, I'm intrigued by the possible biological, environmental, and genetic circumstances contributing to the issue. Thanks for the link to the article.
FeelingGreat: "Man has a natural tendency towards mind altering substances, whether it be kava, or mushrooms or weed."--This reminds me of an article I read about how even children will spin around to make themselves dizzy and mind-altered, again and again.
Seren: "Thinking problem." I like that. Makes sense.
Jaynie04: My STBXAH is at least the third generation in his family to suffer from alcoholism, too. Like you, I'm intrigued by the possible biological, environmental, and genetic circumstances contributing to the issue. Thanks for the link to the article.
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