What should recovery look like 2 1/2 years later?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
For me, the question "if you met him now, would you even do a second date, let alone marry him?" helped clarify matters. Maybe it will for you too.
i am forced to look at that very question right now, and be honest with myself when i answer. takes guts, but we can't shy away when things get tough!!!!!
i am forced to look at that very question right now, and be honest with myself when i answer. takes guts, but we can't shy away when things get tough!!!!!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 328
My RAH has been sober for 20 months now. I had never really understood the saying "recovery looks like recovery" until then. I cannot even begin to list the changes he has undergone. It has been absolutely amazing to watch. He is as involved in AA today as he was in the very beginning but has still worked to repair our relationship and his relationship with our children.
What you describe of your RAH, does not look like recovery.
I don't really have any advice to give other than to urge you to go to Al-Anon. You can witness real recovery there!
What you describe of your RAH, does not look like recovery.
I don't really have any advice to give other than to urge you to go to Al-Anon. You can witness real recovery there!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
You sure can ask! We have a number of what we call "double winners" here, those who are friends/family members of an A as well as being an A themselves, and they can give you their take on it.
I can post a few links:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...e-answers.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...y-symptom.html
And to close, I'll repeat something I heard that certainly turned out to be true in XAH's case: "Just sitting in a meeting doesn't mean you're in recovery any more than sitting in your garage means you're a car." More than anything else, recovery is an active process--every day, every hour. It's not a destination to arrive at, it's an ongoing and lifelong journey that involves honesty, being responsible for oneself, and trying to do the right thing to the best of one's ability.
I can post a few links:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...e-answers.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...y-symptom.html
And to close, I'll repeat something I heard that certainly turned out to be true in XAH's case: "Just sitting in a meeting doesn't mean you're in recovery any more than sitting in your garage means you're a car." More than anything else, recovery is an active process--every day, every hour. It's not a destination to arrive at, it's an ongoing and lifelong journey that involves honesty, being responsible for oneself, and trying to do the right thing to the best of one's ability.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
As others have said, recovery looks like recovery. It is much more than putting down the drink. That is a great first step, but not the only one.
People in recovery accept responsibility for their actions. They don't blame others for their problems. They are humble. They recognize the wreckage their drinking has caused to friends and family, and strive with every fiber of their being not to go down that road again.
Speaking as a recovering A and with lots of alcoholism in my family, I can tell you that recovery is a continuous process, and it is hard at times. Peace.
People in recovery accept responsibility for their actions. They don't blame others for their problems. They are humble. They recognize the wreckage their drinking has caused to friends and family, and strive with every fiber of their being not to go down that road again.
Speaking as a recovering A and with lots of alcoholism in my family, I can tell you that recovery is a continuous process, and it is hard at times. Peace.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Twoyearssober 
So what does real recovery look like? Can I ask?
None of us makes a sole vocation of this work, nor do we think its effectiveness would be increased if we did. We feel that elimination of our drinking is but a beginning. A much more important demonstration of our principles lies before us in our respective homes, occupations and affairs.
We have begun to comprehend their futility and their fatality( refers to character defects)
You will no longer be self-conscious
your family is reunited, alcohol is no longer a problem and you and your husband are working together toward an undreamed-of future
Both of you will awaken to a new sense of responsibility for others
You will lose the old life to find one much better
Giving, rather than getting, will become the guiding principle.
dad will soon see that he is suffering from a distortion of values. He will perceive that his spiritual growth is lopsided,
these vagaries of dads spiritual infancy will quickly disappear
__________________________________________________ __________________________
for me, real recovery is balance- not getting addicted to meetings and living a fear based recovery. its contributing where I can but also keeping my priorities straight.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 844
I would let him know that your marriage is at risk and that you both need to work on it together. It doesnt look like hes making progress with his emotional issues, or developing a normal life. apart from not drinking? what has his recovery work given him so far? My husband and I have done well in family therapy and its all I can suggest to you. If my husband had been unwilling to work on our marital issues then I would have left him in due time.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
In terms of my recovery, two years after putting down the drink I was able to perform well professionally and socially. I worked the steps and went to therapy, but my selfishness and self-will were still a factor. In terms of Alanon, I started this program after a disastrous relationship in my 12th year of recovery. Because I knew the steps I got the concepts much more quickly and saw my part in the pain I was in: I picked him. Change -- recovery -- is a process of two steps forward and one step back, it takes a looooong time.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: the real world
Posts: 166
Thank you all for your wise words!
I just want to add 2 stray thoughts.I'm in AA as well as Al-anon.
Not drinking does not equal sober.
If someone is not actually working a program, they're dry, not sober. I've known people who have been sober in AA for years, who appear to be working a solid program, they sponsor people, etc. But, they don't seem to have a problem with the fact they are still cheating on their spouse, still just not being present in their family's lives, etc, etc.. IMO, that is NOT sober. But these people also tend to be very personable and well-liked, so their "little indiscretions" are overlooked. [I want to smack people up alongside the head!] Just because a person seems to be always doing something program-related, does not mean they they have actually "got it." Some people have no business being a sponsor - IMO.
and FWIW, I just picked up my 25 year chip. [AA] I still go to 2 - 4 meetings a week. I don't want to be one of those who thinks they can just stop working on themselves after X amount of time. Also, I don't work, my "R"AH isn't here
and all of my friends are recovering alcoholics/addicts! 
I just want to add 2 stray thoughts.I'm in AA as well as Al-anon.
Not drinking does not equal sober.
If someone is not actually working a program, they're dry, not sober. I've known people who have been sober in AA for years, who appear to be working a solid program, they sponsor people, etc. But, they don't seem to have a problem with the fact they are still cheating on their spouse, still just not being present in their family's lives, etc, etc.. IMO, that is NOT sober. But these people also tend to be very personable and well-liked, so their "little indiscretions" are overlooked. [I want to smack people up alongside the head!] Just because a person seems to be always doing something program-related, does not mean they they have actually "got it." Some people have no business being a sponsor - IMO.
and FWIW, I just picked up my 25 year chip. [AA] I still go to 2 - 4 meetings a week. I don't want to be one of those who thinks they can just stop working on themselves after X amount of time. Also, I don't work, my "R"AH isn't here
and all of my friends are recovering alcoholics/addicts! Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
you talk about him a lot...
he, him, he him, his, etc.
talk about you. your needs. your wants. what's working for you. what isn't.
you seem to have missed this in your time in Alanon because in all of your posts it's crystal clear that, for you, it's all about him.
it's time that, for you, you be all about you (and children if applicable-- child children, not adult children-- adults are responsible for themselves).
your job is you. his job is him. it sounds like he's doing his job. it sounds like you aren't doing your job (which is you).
take care and good luck.
Cyranoak
talk about you. your needs. your wants. what's working for you. what isn't.
you seem to have missed this in your time in Alanon because in all of your posts it's crystal clear that, for you, it's all about him.
it's time that, for you, you be all about you (and children if applicable-- child children, not adult children-- adults are responsible for themselves).
your job is you. his job is him. it sounds like he's doing his job. it sounds like you aren't doing your job (which is you).
take care and good luck.
Cyranoak
Originally Posted by Twoyearssober
Thanks everyone for all of the good comments.
I appreciate the time and thought you've given me. 🙂
Mindfulness is a great practice. It was suggested by one of his previous therapists and while he was doing mindfulness meditations he seemed more in touch with me.
He has gone up and down with how well he has been working his recovery program, and admittedly he says he has drifted into the dry drunk phase on more than one occasion, but eventually he got back on track.
He seems to be easily led but whatever therapist he has says, and doesn't seem to grasp the true meaning of some psychological concepts.
First therapist said do mindfulness. He tried. Second one said look at codependency and tough love. He did, but thought tough love was yelling at me and admitted he was codependent but didn't really do anything about it and dropped the mindfulness. Third therapist said set your boundaries and so he said we can't have a relationship until I go back to Alanon on a regular basis and work the 12 steps p,us he says there is a certain way to work them. (Did I mention he's a perfectionist?)
Anyway, the sad part is that he doesn't talk to me unless I initiate the conversation, and he even says he's too scared to talk to me because he's afraid of getting yelled at. Which is odd since I don't yell at him when he talks to me. I only get frustrated when he doesn't. And last night he yelled at me, first time he's even spoken more than three sentences to me in months, about getting a counselor and doing the twelve steps, like then Ill suddenly be worthy enough to speak to.
He also assimilates with whatever group he's with. It used to be me, now it's AA, he just goes wherever he thinks he can get the most attention and kudos. His counselor even said he acts like a immature teenager, and no one wants to be married to a child.
If he would just make any step, take any action to have a relationship with me, that would be something, but all he says is to leave him alone and to take care of myself, which I have, but obviously he doesn't think it's doing what he thought it would do.
He just doesn't take responsibility for anything. And he's teaching our kids not to either. If I wasn't around to lean on as a crutch then he'd have to do all the adult things himself and grow up. Sometimes teens don't grow up until they leave the nest.
Plus, if he says he wants to work on himself and me on myself, then there us no relationship there anyway.
He thinks doing nothing means he's doing nothing wrong, but ignoring someone hurts just as much.
Will continue to seek advice of counselors and Alanon, but I asked him if hey suggested I leave him, what would he do. And he said that Ishould just leave.
So much for him wanting to wanting to do something to keep me around....
I appreciate the time and thought you've given me. 🙂
Mindfulness is a great practice. It was suggested by one of his previous therapists and while he was doing mindfulness meditations he seemed more in touch with me.
He has gone up and down with how well he has been working his recovery program, and admittedly he says he has drifted into the dry drunk phase on more than one occasion, but eventually he got back on track.
He seems to be easily led but whatever therapist he has says, and doesn't seem to grasp the true meaning of some psychological concepts.
First therapist said do mindfulness. He tried. Second one said look at codependency and tough love. He did, but thought tough love was yelling at me and admitted he was codependent but didn't really do anything about it and dropped the mindfulness. Third therapist said set your boundaries and so he said we can't have a relationship until I go back to Alanon on a regular basis and work the 12 steps p,us he says there is a certain way to work them. (Did I mention he's a perfectionist?)
Anyway, the sad part is that he doesn't talk to me unless I initiate the conversation, and he even says he's too scared to talk to me because he's afraid of getting yelled at. Which is odd since I don't yell at him when he talks to me. I only get frustrated when he doesn't. And last night he yelled at me, first time he's even spoken more than three sentences to me in months, about getting a counselor and doing the twelve steps, like then Ill suddenly be worthy enough to speak to.
He also assimilates with whatever group he's with. It used to be me, now it's AA, he just goes wherever he thinks he can get the most attention and kudos. His counselor even said he acts like a immature teenager, and no one wants to be married to a child.
If he would just make any step, take any action to have a relationship with me, that would be something, but all he says is to leave him alone and to take care of myself, which I have, but obviously he doesn't think it's doing what he thought it would do.
He just doesn't take responsibility for anything. And he's teaching our kids not to either. If I wasn't around to lean on as a crutch then he'd have to do all the adult things himself and grow up. Sometimes teens don't grow up until they leave the nest.
Plus, if he says he wants to work on himself and me on myself, then there us no relationship there anyway.
He thinks doing nothing means he's doing nothing wrong, but ignoring someone hurts just as much.
Will continue to seek advice of counselors and Alanon, but I asked him if hey suggested I leave him, what would he do. And he said that Ishould just leave.
So much for him wanting to wanting to do something to keep me around....
Wifeofteoyearssober
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 24
Thanks.
I'm her to make sure that I am doing what I need to do, and to get the reminders to get back on course when Ive strayed from the path..... like talking too much about RAH.
I have a counselor, sponsor, rereading the Alanon literature, and hoping to make not as many mistakes as I did 14 years ago, when I went through this before.
I guess I wanted to make sure that my thinking was healthy regarding my RAH, as I thought it was, and that I was not myself clouding my thinking by my emotions.
I know, and obviously everyone else does too, that my RAH is not in real recovery, and that only he and his sponsor thinks he is, even though he's not following the Big Book, which I've read. Bill W wants the twelve steps practiced within the frame work if a family, especially if the alcoholic still has a family that wants them to be a part of it.
I am going through the motions of what I know I need to do, and am trying to let go and let God and live one day at a time.
I appreciate all the candid responses of experience and it's comforting to know that so many have faced this same situation and not only survived and thrived, even if the Alcoholic truly recovers themselves.
I've been learning to take care of myself and keep my focus on me, and that journey alone has take pane me about five years, but I never did what my RAH as done and that is pretend I didn't exist and tell me to go work on myself as he was, by himself, and that maybe one day in the future we'd reunite if end when he got healthy.
So I've done what he's asked, but still supporting him, as we've been business partners, but the kids are older and it's time to move on. I have a life too, and it doesn't include being constantly emotionally abused by RAH.
It's never fun to see another family have to go through this, but all I are to do is to read all the positive things that come out of working to be the best person I can be, even if that includes a life without AH or RAH.
Blessings and thanks for not giving up and persevering to be the best you can be. It's inspiring.
I'm her to make sure that I am doing what I need to do, and to get the reminders to get back on course when Ive strayed from the path..... like talking too much about RAH.
I have a counselor, sponsor, rereading the Alanon literature, and hoping to make not as many mistakes as I did 14 years ago, when I went through this before.
I guess I wanted to make sure that my thinking was healthy regarding my RAH, as I thought it was, and that I was not myself clouding my thinking by my emotions.
I know, and obviously everyone else does too, that my RAH is not in real recovery, and that only he and his sponsor thinks he is, even though he's not following the Big Book, which I've read. Bill W wants the twelve steps practiced within the frame work if a family, especially if the alcoholic still has a family that wants them to be a part of it.
I am going through the motions of what I know I need to do, and am trying to let go and let God and live one day at a time.
I appreciate all the candid responses of experience and it's comforting to know that so many have faced this same situation and not only survived and thrived, even if the Alcoholic truly recovers themselves.
I've been learning to take care of myself and keep my focus on me, and that journey alone has take pane me about five years, but I never did what my RAH as done and that is pretend I didn't exist and tell me to go work on myself as he was, by himself, and that maybe one day in the future we'd reunite if end when he got healthy.
So I've done what he's asked, but still supporting him, as we've been business partners, but the kids are older and it's time to move on. I have a life too, and it doesn't include being constantly emotionally abused by RAH.
It's never fun to see another family have to go through this, but all I are to do is to read all the positive things that come out of working to be the best person I can be, even if that includes a life without AH or RAH.
Blessings and thanks for not giving up and persevering to be the best you can be. It's inspiring.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
i guess what needs to be considered is......his "recovery" such as it is, seems to be good enough......for him. i'm sure at one time ALL you wanted was for him to "quit drinking" and the thoughts probably didn't roam much farther than that.
and he has. for 2.5 years. not drank a drop (or so i assume from your posts). so to his credit, he did the BIG Thing....
but as we only find out when the substance abuse stops, there is often more going on than JUST using. we keep lowering the bar on acceptability, we keep trying to make it work, to be ok - we keep bartering with the disease and the personality - we lose sight of the bigger picture. that the whole thing is just.............WRONG.
our life shouldn't be so darn hard. it shouldn't be pushing a boulder uphill every day due to someone else's STUFF. hell it's not even OUR boulder!!!
and he has. for 2.5 years. not drank a drop (or so i assume from your posts). so to his credit, he did the BIG Thing....
but as we only find out when the substance abuse stops, there is often more going on than JUST using. we keep lowering the bar on acceptability, we keep trying to make it work, to be ok - we keep bartering with the disease and the personality - we lose sight of the bigger picture. that the whole thing is just.............WRONG.
our life shouldn't be so darn hard. it shouldn't be pushing a boulder uphill every day due to someone else's STUFF. hell it's not even OUR boulder!!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 3
I am also the wife of an addict, and we have kids together. There is not ONE book out there that could have taught me as much, as my husband has, about addiction. I feel for you!! I am new on here, and have been reading through the threads, crying, reading some more, crying some more. I can totally relate to so many of these posts. Bless you and your children, you are an amazing woman.
Wifeofteoyearssober
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 24
Challenges for my recovery b/c doesn't seem like RAH is working his program.
It's been about a month since I first posted and have been trying to keep the focus on me.... counseling, doing my own 12 steps,while raising 4 kids in a blended family with all 4 on a different custody schedule...
And the reality of the situation has set in.
RAH is more calmer than when he was drinking, but he also has gone from 60 mg of ad detail a day to Vyvanse and 10mg, so that may have something to fo with it. He also at looks like he sort of regularly reads his devotions. And he still tries to go to 3 meetings a week and but now he goes early and stays late, do he's gone from about 6 to 9.
I am letting him work his program, while I work mine, and now I dont really see a light at the end of the tunnel for years.
I understood that trying to stop drinking is really really really hard, but it didn't seem to be all that hard for my RAH. His drinking was discovered, and within a month he was pretty much not craving it anymore and then was in intensive out patient for 3 months after that and since then he really doesn't want to drink.
RAH does understand that there are lots of issues to address in his life and new coping skills for him to learn, and listens to his counselor once a week about that, but I see him substituting the drinking for other addictions.
Like he's put on 30 pounds, the heaviest he's been in 14 years, using sweets as a substitute. He also now has earbuds in when he's at home, and at work, where he listens and watches you tube videos to keep distracted.
And so I guess I wonder if he's really even trying to recover.
I found out that he was planning on skipping work this past Friday to have a work day at his sponsors hunting camp... the same sponsor who RAH had to leave me for 3 weekends for 3/4 days each Friday-Monday, to "work on the steps" well at least one of those weekends was for that, I don't know about the others, because RAH told me that he didn't want to disappoint his sponsor by not going because sponsor was trying to get a deer to regularly come to the camp for RAH to shoot.
Has RAH EVER even seen a deer in all those times...... no.
RAH has been lying to me about going to see his sponsor. He sees his sponsor three times a week since he's in his home group.
So my time since RAH has stopped drinking is RAH either working, watching videos, or at a AA meeting or put with his sponsor... not always working on the steps, actually sounds like they work on them about 30% of the time, if even that much.
So my first marriage ended with my ExH having an affair, and learned that whatever you spend the most time with, as humans, you will bond with it. It's scientifically proven. That's why there are so many work affairs between workaholics-they spend so much together.
So it naturally stands to reason that if my RAH spends a majority of his free time with his sponsor, that pretty soon he'll be more bonded to his sponsor than to his family.
I thought the point of AA was to reintegrate the RA with their family, not keep them away. At least not after 2 1/2 years.
RAH sponsor is not nit married and has no kids. He's a big brother/dad to RAH and I guess I can't compete with that.
Anyway, RAH ended up lying to me Thursday about what he was doing for work on Friday he didn't tell me what he did when he got home, he spent the evening with the family(in between videos on phone) and then finally told me that he had been out of town doing a job for one of our clients. Sat morning he told me the same thing. Of course I found out the truth, I always do, and so RAH said he made a mistake, was living in a fantasy world, was trying to take control of the situation, meaning what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me.... and then that was it.
He routinely thinks amends means only an apology and then maybe he gets to pick what he wants to do to make up for what he did, whether it's what will actually reconcile the situation or not. With me, he usually just seems to forget to do anything.
This time, after he admitted he made a mistake, he went into defensive mode to explain why I shouldn't be hurt, that the lying was for my sake, that I'll appreciate what he did later because it was for the kids...... and he topped it all off with a request for me to get another sponsor that he had picked out so that, in his words, she could do the 12 steps with me and then I would understand him. Sounded like she was supposed to tell me how to let RAH make excuses for his behavior and me be happy about it.
It's the same behavior my EH had when he was having his affair, and was then caught. He wasn't sorry. He made excuses, and he tried to even make it my fault. (I was pregnant with #4 child at the time.)
When I met my RAH 14 years ago he had other addictions... dip mostly and then went to drugs at work and drinking with the guys. He would try to stop on his own. He would for a short while and then start again. All behind my back. Until 2 years ago. I would think he had started again except I don't think his sponsor and all the other AA home group people would do it with him. Supposedly he hasn't had to start over yet.
Anyway, I asked RAH if he had ever been betrayed and I honestly don't think he ever has. RAH acts like a teenager .... even his counselor says that, as he works with teens in addiction recovery facilities. I don't think my RAH knows what the pain of betrayal feels like because he just deadens his pain when it gets too much. He still distracts himself instead of using healthy coping skills, which I thought he was learning during all those years of counseling.
I thought it was only supposed to take 3-6 months for behavioral modification to take place, maybe a year, but I didn't think people were supposed to be in counseling forever.
It's like my RAH doesn't work the program, listening at the AA mtgs and counseling are his program. Otherwise, why would he still be in lala land this far past his last drink and after so many years of counseling and AA meetings.... he used to go to 5 a week for probably the first year.
It is going to take me a little while to find a job, and I'm in the process of that already, and getting myself healed, so that so I can have options.
Neglect kills a relationship and constant rejection hurts a lot.
At one time I thought RAH had enough rejection from his childhood that he understood how that felt and wouldn't want to do it to anyone else. But RAH also assimilates into whatever group he's with and I even got the he couldn't serve his family, only AA people, because we didn't count as someone he could help.
I've heard that sometimes RAs morph out of this thinking, and grow up, but I don't know how or when they do it.
RAH just keeps wanting things to go back to the way things were, and I can't do that. Especially when RAH keeps being selfish and self centered. And doesn't think he's doing it. He's supposed to be selfish in recovery he says.
So I am realizing that RAH really hasn't seemingly changed all that much. He still doesn't validate or try to understand my feelings. We still always focus his feeling. I know what's happening, and am trying to live one day at a time, but it's still so hard after all these years.
Time actually doing the work on ourselves is the best option. And I don't want to rush RAH, but I guess I am now excepting RAH is just going to do whatever he wants whenever he wants it.
He doesn't seem to trust me anymore, only sponsor and AA people, even tho I'm a recovering daughter of an alcoholic and have done my work.
I don't know what's left after this except move on. RAH may never get a clue or it just get it years later.
And I'm still trying to focus on personsnal recovery with seemingly negative support or attention from RAH, which makes me discouraged, especially since he could keep the truth from each for so long, and think it's ok. Before the alcohol influenced his thinking, but now he has a clear head and still doesn't choose to reconcile with his family.
If RAH would at least try to make amends for real, then perhaps that would be evidence of his growth.
I guess this is like the relapse people talk about, yet Im still in shock that RAH could still be able to lie to me like that and think it's ok.
Whenever I think there is hope for RAH to keep his family intact, he does something stupid, and acts like he did when he was actively drinking, except this time he has a clear head and he still makes choices that hurt his family.
Oh well, I guess I need advice and support for me moving through this, cause I don't know if RAH will ever mature and be able to love like an adult instead of a teen. And it takes a lot of perseverance to get and stay in a healthy place.
And the reality of the situation has set in.
RAH is more calmer than when he was drinking, but he also has gone from 60 mg of ad detail a day to Vyvanse and 10mg, so that may have something to fo with it. He also at looks like he sort of regularly reads his devotions. And he still tries to go to 3 meetings a week and but now he goes early and stays late, do he's gone from about 6 to 9.
I am letting him work his program, while I work mine, and now I dont really see a light at the end of the tunnel for years.
I understood that trying to stop drinking is really really really hard, but it didn't seem to be all that hard for my RAH. His drinking was discovered, and within a month he was pretty much not craving it anymore and then was in intensive out patient for 3 months after that and since then he really doesn't want to drink.
RAH does understand that there are lots of issues to address in his life and new coping skills for him to learn, and listens to his counselor once a week about that, but I see him substituting the drinking for other addictions.
Like he's put on 30 pounds, the heaviest he's been in 14 years, using sweets as a substitute. He also now has earbuds in when he's at home, and at work, where he listens and watches you tube videos to keep distracted.
And so I guess I wonder if he's really even trying to recover.
I found out that he was planning on skipping work this past Friday to have a work day at his sponsors hunting camp... the same sponsor who RAH had to leave me for 3 weekends for 3/4 days each Friday-Monday, to "work on the steps" well at least one of those weekends was for that, I don't know about the others, because RAH told me that he didn't want to disappoint his sponsor by not going because sponsor was trying to get a deer to regularly come to the camp for RAH to shoot.
Has RAH EVER even seen a deer in all those times...... no.
RAH has been lying to me about going to see his sponsor. He sees his sponsor three times a week since he's in his home group.
So my time since RAH has stopped drinking is RAH either working, watching videos, or at a AA meeting or put with his sponsor... not always working on the steps, actually sounds like they work on them about 30% of the time, if even that much.
So my first marriage ended with my ExH having an affair, and learned that whatever you spend the most time with, as humans, you will bond with it. It's scientifically proven. That's why there are so many work affairs between workaholics-they spend so much together.
So it naturally stands to reason that if my RAH spends a majority of his free time with his sponsor, that pretty soon he'll be more bonded to his sponsor than to his family.
I thought the point of AA was to reintegrate the RA with their family, not keep them away. At least not after 2 1/2 years.
RAH sponsor is not nit married and has no kids. He's a big brother/dad to RAH and I guess I can't compete with that.
Anyway, RAH ended up lying to me Thursday about what he was doing for work on Friday he didn't tell me what he did when he got home, he spent the evening with the family(in between videos on phone) and then finally told me that he had been out of town doing a job for one of our clients. Sat morning he told me the same thing. Of course I found out the truth, I always do, and so RAH said he made a mistake, was living in a fantasy world, was trying to take control of the situation, meaning what I didn't know wouldn't hurt me.... and then that was it.
He routinely thinks amends means only an apology and then maybe he gets to pick what he wants to do to make up for what he did, whether it's what will actually reconcile the situation or not. With me, he usually just seems to forget to do anything.
This time, after he admitted he made a mistake, he went into defensive mode to explain why I shouldn't be hurt, that the lying was for my sake, that I'll appreciate what he did later because it was for the kids...... and he topped it all off with a request for me to get another sponsor that he had picked out so that, in his words, she could do the 12 steps with me and then I would understand him. Sounded like she was supposed to tell me how to let RAH make excuses for his behavior and me be happy about it.
It's the same behavior my EH had when he was having his affair, and was then caught. He wasn't sorry. He made excuses, and he tried to even make it my fault. (I was pregnant with #4 child at the time.)
When I met my RAH 14 years ago he had other addictions... dip mostly and then went to drugs at work and drinking with the guys. He would try to stop on his own. He would for a short while and then start again. All behind my back. Until 2 years ago. I would think he had started again except I don't think his sponsor and all the other AA home group people would do it with him. Supposedly he hasn't had to start over yet.
Anyway, I asked RAH if he had ever been betrayed and I honestly don't think he ever has. RAH acts like a teenager .... even his counselor says that, as he works with teens in addiction recovery facilities. I don't think my RAH knows what the pain of betrayal feels like because he just deadens his pain when it gets too much. He still distracts himself instead of using healthy coping skills, which I thought he was learning during all those years of counseling.
I thought it was only supposed to take 3-6 months for behavioral modification to take place, maybe a year, but I didn't think people were supposed to be in counseling forever.
It's like my RAH doesn't work the program, listening at the AA mtgs and counseling are his program. Otherwise, why would he still be in lala land this far past his last drink and after so many years of counseling and AA meetings.... he used to go to 5 a week for probably the first year.
It is going to take me a little while to find a job, and I'm in the process of that already, and getting myself healed, so that so I can have options.
Neglect kills a relationship and constant rejection hurts a lot.
At one time I thought RAH had enough rejection from his childhood that he understood how that felt and wouldn't want to do it to anyone else. But RAH also assimilates into whatever group he's with and I even got the he couldn't serve his family, only AA people, because we didn't count as someone he could help.
I've heard that sometimes RAs morph out of this thinking, and grow up, but I don't know how or when they do it.
RAH just keeps wanting things to go back to the way things were, and I can't do that. Especially when RAH keeps being selfish and self centered. And doesn't think he's doing it. He's supposed to be selfish in recovery he says.
So I am realizing that RAH really hasn't seemingly changed all that much. He still doesn't validate or try to understand my feelings. We still always focus his feeling. I know what's happening, and am trying to live one day at a time, but it's still so hard after all these years.
Time actually doing the work on ourselves is the best option. And I don't want to rush RAH, but I guess I am now excepting RAH is just going to do whatever he wants whenever he wants it.
He doesn't seem to trust me anymore, only sponsor and AA people, even tho I'm a recovering daughter of an alcoholic and have done my work.
I don't know what's left after this except move on. RAH may never get a clue or it just get it years later.
And I'm still trying to focus on personsnal recovery with seemingly negative support or attention from RAH, which makes me discouraged, especially since he could keep the truth from each for so long, and think it's ok. Before the alcohol influenced his thinking, but now he has a clear head and still doesn't choose to reconcile with his family.
If RAH would at least try to make amends for real, then perhaps that would be evidence of his growth.
I guess this is like the relapse people talk about, yet Im still in shock that RAH could still be able to lie to me like that and think it's ok.
Whenever I think there is hope for RAH to keep his family intact, he does something stupid, and acts like he did when he was actively drinking, except this time he has a clear head and he still makes choices that hurt his family.
Oh well, I guess I need advice and support for me moving through this, cause I don't know if RAH will ever mature and be able to love like an adult instead of a teen. And it takes a lot of perseverance to get and stay in a healthy place.
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Twoyearsober....I assume he has ADD...(Adderall...? If so, how much do you think that is a factor in his behaviors? I am just asking the question.....
I do know that those with ADD/Adhd easily focus on what they like...even hyperfocus.....and are impatient with anything that they don't like and get bored with.....
Another thing....in recovery, I believe that the program has honesty in all things as an important principle.
Like you, I am under the impression that sobriety is supposed to enable one to improve relationships with family and others...not worsen it....(the early recovery period being allowed for).....
Have you had the talk with him....laying all the cards on the table about your feelings and what you need from the marriage at this point? Does he know that you are dissatisfied enough to actually leave the relationship?
If you are unhappy....you are unhappy...and, your feelings count as much as his, in my opinion.....
Marriage partners, as I see it, are supposed to enrich each other and one should be able to thrive within the marriage...not just exist for the sake of staying married......
I do know that those with ADD/Adhd easily focus on what they like...even hyperfocus.....and are impatient with anything that they don't like and get bored with.....
Another thing....in recovery, I believe that the program has honesty in all things as an important principle.
Like you, I am under the impression that sobriety is supposed to enable one to improve relationships with family and others...not worsen it....(the early recovery period being allowed for).....
Have you had the talk with him....laying all the cards on the table about your feelings and what you need from the marriage at this point? Does he know that you are dissatisfied enough to actually leave the relationship?
If you are unhappy....you are unhappy...and, your feelings count as much as his, in my opinion.....
Marriage partners, as I see it, are supposed to enrich each other and one should be able to thrive within the marriage...not just exist for the sake of staying married......
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Anyway, I asked RAH if he had ever been betrayed and I honestly don't think he ever has. RAH acts like a teenager .... even his counselor says that, as he works with teens in addiction recovery facilities. I don't think my RAH knows what the pain of betrayal feels like because he just deadens his pain when it gets too much.
The reasons ultimately didn't matter. What DID matter was the realization that I could not continue to be married to someone who could and would lie to me about anything and everything w/o a second thought.
You have a long, long list of things about AH that you're not happy with. You mention over and over that he's not making a real effort to change. I believe your answers are right in front of you. He is showing you very, very clearly who he is. He is also showing you very, very clearly what he is and IS NOT willing to do. Your only decision, it seems to me, is how much longer you choose to accept this.
I agree w/taking steps towards getting a job. I would also recommend seeing a lawyer to see what your financial situation might be after divorce, so you have an idea what you could expect in the way of support, etc. Consultations are often free, so go get some facts and then keep working on that plan. So many others here have started over, and you can do the same.
Edited to add: Based on some new learning on my part, I do think what dandy says about adult ADD/ADHD being a factor is accurate. At this stage, I'm almost certain it is part of XAH's problem. However, it changed nothing for me, since he was as unwilling to address this possibility as he was the alcoholism.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
Your "R"AH sounds like a miserable person who doesn't participate in his family or his marriage and needs to be told to stay on his side of the street. You sound like you're miserable - I know I would be! I'm glad you're taking steps to extricate yourself from the situation. His "drinking" was but a tiny % of his issues.
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Wareham, Mass
Posts: 7,067
As someone has said on this site, alcohol-dependent people are often not great relationship material, drinking or not.
The more I read and observe, the more firmly I believe this.
Also, and this is my opinion only, I think there are many people out there, men mostly, who haven't the faintest clue about emotional maturity.
My father was a very distant guy. I don't want to make this a daddy issue because I hate, hate, hate that term.
But...a lot of choices I made about my romantic partners early on had a great deal to do with filling the void left by my critical, emotionally distant father.
Not trying to pull the kid-damage card on you, but how you and your spouse interact, or don't, profoundly affects your children.
Maybe he's a good dad, and his distance issues are reserved for you alone.
But it sounds from your description that famly is just a nuisance to him, getting in the way of his bro hunting and occasional discussion of steps.
That is not recovery. Peace.
.
The more I read and observe, the more firmly I believe this.
Also, and this is my opinion only, I think there are many people out there, men mostly, who haven't the faintest clue about emotional maturity.
My father was a very distant guy. I don't want to make this a daddy issue because I hate, hate, hate that term.
But...a lot of choices I made about my romantic partners early on had a great deal to do with filling the void left by my critical, emotionally distant father.
Not trying to pull the kid-damage card on you, but how you and your spouse interact, or don't, profoundly affects your children.
Maybe he's a good dad, and his distance issues are reserved for you alone.
But it sounds from your description that famly is just a nuisance to him, getting in the way of his bro hunting and occasional discussion of steps.
That is not recovery. Peace.
.
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Sorry for what brought yiu here, but glad you found us.
I think you have a good grasp of the problem. The thing is, turning it over and over, looking at it from different angles and in different lights isn't going to change it. You cannot change your husband or his behaviour. So what options do you have for solutions? What can you change? Will you stay or leave? Can you accept him the way he is? If not then its time to make some boundaries and reinforce them I suppose. Sometimes people grow apart and it needs both people to be really committed to finding a compromise and having the willingness to see it though for things to be resolved. It doesn't sound like either of you have much of those things left. Perhaps it got broken beyond repair?
Sorry if that sounds pessimistic, but perhaps it would be better to part and both have a chance at happiness. What would you open a child of yours would do if they were in a similar relationship?
Wishing you and your husband all the best for your respective recoveries. BB
I think you have a good grasp of the problem. The thing is, turning it over and over, looking at it from different angles and in different lights isn't going to change it. You cannot change your husband or his behaviour. So what options do you have for solutions? What can you change? Will you stay or leave? Can you accept him the way he is? If not then its time to make some boundaries and reinforce them I suppose. Sometimes people grow apart and it needs both people to be really committed to finding a compromise and having the willingness to see it though for things to be resolved. It doesn't sound like either of you have much of those things left. Perhaps it got broken beyond repair?
Sorry if that sounds pessimistic, but perhaps it would be better to part and both have a chance at happiness. What would you open a child of yours would do if they were in a similar relationship?
Wishing you and your husband all the best for your respective recoveries. BB
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
In Bill Wilson's Big Book he says drinking is but a symptom of a much bigger problem. He is still an addict albeit one in recovery where change is possible. But it's his recovery and the changes, if/when they happen, may not be to your liking. That's why Alanon is so important -- codependents must change as well.
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