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Old 02-05-2017, 07:36 AM
  # 41 (permalink)  
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Thoughts please,
A friend of mine who has been through divorce 6 times says I want find any peace by requesting STBXAH to be jointly responsible for martial debts. She feels I should not request a joint settlement of debts. Her philosophy is even when the court orders joint distribution of debts the husband doesn't pay . And women have to constantly file contempt motions and this does not bring peace/closure.
So I asked her is there true peace in one spouse taking all the debt and having to manage how to pay if off for however many years it takes while the other spouse walks away with a clean slate?
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:50 AM
  # 42 (permalink)  
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What you might want to do is to ask the court to give you other property to compensate for his share of the debts. Debts are part of property division. Each item of property (or liability, like a debt) does not have to be divided 50-50. I'm not sure how much debt we are talking about, but you could point out to the court that he has expressed an intention to pay NOTHING, so to protect your own credit, you would prefer to take on the debt and receive other property in lieu of his share. That's completely doable, provided you have enough other property to offset it.
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:59 AM
  # 43 (permalink)  
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Its very sad situation. Me the good wife with the good credit. STBXAH has very bad credit.
EVERYTHING is in my name. i.e house , all credit cards ( approx 10),
4 cars , utilities ( everything required to run a household /marriage is in my name)
We met he had 2 hefty garbage bags ( yes , I'm shame to admit) and this is why he is comfortable going back to living that way...... He says he wants nothing unless there is a profit from selling the vehicles .. nothing from the home ( prob because its up side down)
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Old 02-05-2017, 10:02 AM
  # 44 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
What you might want to do is to ask the court to give you other property to compensate for his share of the debts. Debts are part of property division. Each item of property (or liability, like a debt) does not have to be divided 50-50. I'm not sure how much debt we are talking about, but you could point out to the court that he has expressed an intention to pay NOTHING, so to protect your own credit, you would prefer to take on the debt and receive other property in lieu of his share. That's completely doable, provided you have enough other property to offset it.
This is exactly what I did - I retained all of the joint debt AND all of the equity in the house. Similar situation to yours - XAH with no credit and no property to his name

Now, you have no equity in the house (upside down) so I'd say definitely go for split debt. Worst case scenario you will end up paying for all of it anyway. If he does not pay - you may or may not file a motion - it will be your decision.

Just taking on debt is allowing him to escape consequences.
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Old 02-05-2017, 11:38 AM
  # 45 (permalink)  
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Well, if you're keeping all the property, how is it unfair for you to assume the debt for those assets? If you will, as a result of his disclaiming the car, house, etc., have outright ownership of all those items, you can sell them and use the proceeds toward the debt. That sounds fair to ME.
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Old 02-05-2017, 11:45 AM
  # 46 (permalink)  
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I missed the part where you're upside down on the mortgage, but even so. Depending on how much you stand to be in the hole, I'd write some of that off. Look, if you were not living in the house, you'd still be having to pay rent to live somewhere. The real estate market may change, if you're planning to stay in the house.

I have written off several thousands of dollars "owed" to me for the sake of peace in my life. With a house and four cars, and your admitted ability to pay the debt yourself, I think I'd just lay claim to clear title for all the property and let him walk. It's not worth the hassle and expense of getting the money from him.

My experience/opinion.
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Old 02-05-2017, 11:54 AM
  # 47 (permalink)  
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I'm fine with taking the debt of the vehicles and the home. STBXAH doesn't want to share in the credit card debits , student loans, past expenses sense he left. etc.
I have been paying all expenses for the last year thankfully with help from friends and family. I don't have the ability to pay the debt myself. I'm forced to take on the vehicles and the home to avoid ruining my credit. But I have to draw the line at credit card debits , student loans, past expenses sense he left. On top of that he wants 1/2 of the profit from the sale of any asset even though he hasn't made a payment on anything in over a year.
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Old 02-05-2017, 03:42 PM
  # 48 (permalink)  
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I'd let the court sort it out. The court is capable of apportioning the debts/assets in an equitable way. Just emphasize that you cannot trust him to make the payments (and you've got the mediator and your lawyer who heard what he said about that). If the court awards you the asset he gets nothing when it's sold. As for credit card debt, if the card is in both names, the credit card company can come after you for anything he doesn't pay anyway. You have a contract with them that gives them the right to do that. All the more reason for you to ask the court to give you the assets.
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Old 02-05-2017, 03:52 PM
  # 49 (permalink)  
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So it sounds like either way I'm going to lose.
If I take all the debt , I struggle to pay it. Sell what I can ( no equity in any of the assets at this point)
If I get equitable distribution of the credit cards - he may not pay them which means I pay the credit cards to or my credit gets ruined? What is the abusing spouse accountability?
Wow ...... where is the justice
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Old 02-05-2017, 08:53 PM
  # 50 (permalink)  
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Savingme, I don't know much (actually nothing) about finance and legalities but getting away from this guy can only be a win. Yep work the finances the best you can . . . but . . .get away . . . .far away . . .and stay away.

My extended family had a vineyard at one time worth some 18 million dollars. A relative ran it into the ground. This last Christmas, the same week my Dad received $800 for his share of this ranch, I had dinner with a very wealthy family. They must be buzzilionaires from the wine industry. They had an amazing house in Mexico. In the middle of dinner the husband called the wife a f----- c----- (and more). . . . . . Thank you very much, I will take the healthy relationships I have and they can have the buzzzilions of dollars. . . . . no it isn't fair, but I think it isn't fair in my favor.

Get to an alanon meeting; work with that lawyer; take care of you and let us know how things go.

May many angels bombard you. This is very tough stuff!
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Old 02-05-2017, 10:28 PM
  # 51 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by savingmein2017 View Post
I'm not suicidal at all ... but I'm tired of felling like this .. I'm so tired of being dragged through the mud. He says he prepared to fight me ( pro se) by the way. I ask why prepare for a battle..You are the one who walked out. He ignores the question and continues to argue with my attorney. He even had the nerve to file a motion requesting to see my contract with my attorney. I say to him just stop it please. The only one who wins is the attorney. He says "exactly and that's why He doesn't have an attny so how can I afford one. AH says this supports his argument that I don't need spousal support"
Yeah, they do tend to SAY a lot of things. Try to remember all the things he SAID when you were together that he never DID.

Most of them are full of threats and hot air.
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Old 02-06-2017, 01:38 AM
  # 52 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by savingmein2017 View Post
So it sounds like either way I'm going to lose.
If I take all the debt , I struggle to pay it. Sell what I can ( no equity in any of the assets at this point)
If I get equitable distribution of the credit cards - he may not pay them which means I pay the credit cards to or my credit gets ruined? What is the abusing spouse accountability?
Wow ...... where is the justice
Shout it from the rooftops SM, there is very little come-back from credit, gifts, whatever, between people in the same family. I know this sounds harsh, but you knew him and you entered into these arrangements of your free will.

No, its not morally fair, but we're all adults here and he did nothing that you didn't participate in. Now your job is to get the absolute best settlement without giving him a bean more than you have to.
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Old 02-06-2017, 06:37 AM
  # 53 (permalink)  
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Hi feelinggreat
No, its not morally fair, but we're all adults here and he did nothing that you didn't participate in.

Are you saying I was wrong for being a faithful , supportive wife?
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:50 AM
  # 54 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by savingmein2017 View Post
its funny though ..SBXAH(who's almost 50 by the way) could never put the booze and partying to the side to save our marriage but now he can take bar chick to comedy shows / wine and dine.... etc.
Eventually the new bar chick will see what he's really like. Alcoholism is progressive. And karma will catch up to him. You put that fight in God's hands. He will take care of it for you. You're going to have the last laugh. I'm not trying to be flippant, about it, but I think you know what I mean =)
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:07 AM
  # 55 (permalink)  
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(karma will catch up to him. You put that fight in God's hands.)

I'm trying so hard to believe this. I am so shocked he has no intent on doing right. All this time he has had to think of his actions and still more of the same from him. The mediator and my attorney tried to paint the picture for him. He is in contempt of a court order and he does not care. He can't see the wall he is about to hit very hard?
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:27 AM
  # 56 (permalink)  
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Question regarding alanon meeting?
I pretty much know I was foolish to trust my husband.
I know I allowed and accepted his daily drinking
( mostly because he was the very opposite of my father ; who was the classic , belligerent , fighting drunk) - the picture of the drunk that was in my mind.
I knew my STBXAH drank ALOT(every single day) but if he was not the belligerent , fighting drunk - somehow I thought we could make the marriage work
( silly me)
I seen the signs of his recklessness with his finances ( my remedy was to remove all finances and financial decisions from him ) wrong because this enable him and released him from mature responsibilities adults in the real world encounter
So if I know all these things how will alanon help me .
I already feel bad and I am at my lowest point for not being able to avoid the failure of my marriage . I feel horrible that I could not help him beat the drinking problem he has. I just got so tired of his drinking and went into self preservation mode and that's when he said he knew I had changed( huh?)
Is there really help for me at a alanon meeting?
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:32 AM
  # 57 (permalink)  
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For one thing, it will help you get the focus off of him--what he's doing in his social life, how badly he's treated you, etc., and onto yourself--what you can do to make your own life better. You're wrapped up in everything he's done to you. Time for you to concentrate on what you CAN control. That would be you, your actions, your attitude.
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:56 AM
  # 58 (permalink)  
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Al-Anon might help you re-frame your thinking away from shame at not being able to help him quit drinking to accepting that you never had, and never will, could, or should have any control over his drinking at all.

You're not going to go to Al-Anon to be berated over all of these perceived failures. You'll go to be understood and accepted by lots of people who made many of the same choices you did and who learned to forgive themselves.
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:59 AM
  # 59 (permalink)  
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savingme...you put your faith in someone who did not live up to your expectations.
You invested yourself into him...your hopes and dreams...and organized your life around him...Not an unusual thing for a young wife to do....
You trusted him...

Sadly, he betrayed your trust. And, he is an alcoholic...with all the dysfunction that comes along with that.
for various reasons...you loved someone that couldn't/wouldn't love you back...
You didn't do anything wrong by loving.....you just placed it on the wrong person...
Lots of us have done that!! And, we did not realized it u ntil way, way, late in the game.

It hurts...really bad...and, we all go through a period of grieving (I think you are there, now)....

Your life is not over, though...life is still worth living....and, you will, eventually get past this.
Your feelings are natural, for the circumstance....and, you are entitled to your feelings....

Yes, alanon can help you, if you want it to....when you are ready to go forward....
We would all grow very old if we wait for history to change itself...LOL!!
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Old 02-06-2017, 10:56 AM
  # 60 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by savingmein2017 View Post
Hi feelinggreat
No, its not morally fair, but we're all adults here and he did nothing that you didn't participate in.

Are you saying I was wrong for being a faithful , supportive wife?
I don't think feelinggreat is saying that at all. It took me a long time to understand that, while I certainly didn't FORCE him to drink or to lie to me, I most definitely WAS a part of the whole f'd up mess. He played his part and I played mine. I believe that's more or less the direction fg is trying to point you in. You are not simply the helpless victim; you are not the 100% pure "good guy."

As I say, I had a terrible time understanding that in my situation too. How could I possibly have been at fault? I was working OT, I was working a side job, I was doing everything I could to "get ahead", and meanwhile, unbeknownst to me, XAH was spending money from our savings to finance his alcohol and tobacco addictions (yes, he even hid his smoking from me). How could I be anything but the innocent victim? Clearly HE was wrong and I was right! There was no way I was going to accept one shred of responsibility for how things turned out!

Then a wise SR member posted this--

For the first time, I realized that I was not just a hapless victim of his choices. I was a willing participant. This realization didn't bring me shame. It empowered me. If I was part of the problem, then I was also part of the solution. My fate was not tied to his. This was a very freeing moment for me.

--and it was like a stroke of lightning. My whole outlook changed.

Things are what they are. Again, you can bemoan the fact that there is all this debt and so on, or you can set your mind to getting past it. The first action will not change anything. The second will change everything.

And yes, go to Alanon.
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