Centered3

Oh wow. I don't know what to say. "stop drinking" only works if alcohol was her problem and not if alcohol was her solution. If she wasn't given the tools of recovery, then just not drinking will likely make her worse.

I'm sorry I wish I knew what to say but I can offer an e-hug.

mariathebird

My husband has major covert narc. characteristics. He has a binge drinking/pot smoking "habit"; I realize now that my daily evening alcohol consumption was in part (am not blaming him..just recognizing triggers) due to attempts to escape the crazymaking, projection, gaslighting, blaming, fabrications, etc. etc.

Now that I am newly and completely sober, I am in the process of adjusting. My "demand" for boundaries has never worked (once he is raging and his feelings take over all I can do it wait it out or run away). I am hoping sobriety enables me to "find my spine' and give me a new level of confidence and expectation...and yes eventually maybe empathy for him--I am not there yet.

There is a site called "Out of the Fog" established for folks like me dealing with loved ones with personality disorder traits. Has been extremely helpful in helping me aquire tools, obtain coping methods and learn how to understand his perspective/reality.

Refiner

IKR???? The doctors told me that she will likely come out of her coma with a changed personality. That only gave me HOPE! Then after she spit those words at me, I knew there was NO hope and she would likely be worse (as you've stated here). The tools offered in a program (which it sounds like she wasn't even in one) only work if you admit you need them... something an NPD person would most likely never do like her.

Centered3

Actually, oops. Sorry I made a mistake. I remember now my former sponsor explaining to me that some people actually do become "stone cold sober" and are changed in personality from a near-death experience or something similar. However I think they still go through the step work. But they're the ones that go head-strong immediately into Step 1 and pound the step pavement hard.

My hunch (and it is just a hunch) is that a true NPD wouldn't admit anything.... but I could be wrong.....

Centered3

I realized that with my parents/sibling, too. Good on you for looking at it the way that you do. I know it's not easy and that it takes time. It took a lot of time for me to own my reactions to them instead of blaming.

Congratulations on your sobriety! I like to try to remember that no one has the power to drive me to drink. ;-)

Oh boy this sounds an awful lot like my mother and sister. My trying to set boundaries always made things worse. Until now, because their reactions don't ruffle my feathers anymore so to speak.

It did for me. Both confidence and empathy for them. But not pity for them. Big difference. Kinda a detached empathy.

I used to go on that site for help with my mother and sister, too. It's a great resource. Unfortunately for me it is still too raw, painful and emotional to put into practice all the fantastic tools they offered. I should probably go back on there now that I'm recovered and much less in that place. I'm glad it helps you. :-)

teatreeoil007

Hmm. Humility. A precious commodity in the sense that it seems hard to come by...who is truly humble? I've done a lot of reflection on humility....false humility is often a cloak...and a disguise....true humilty, well, when I feel I come across it it's refreshing to me...

Pride plays s a part in NPD, I think.

I heard it said once that pride is a false sense of self. I'm not talking about good pride, but the kind of pride that is more like built on a house of cards.

If you ever get a chance read the book (true story author's account) Into Thin Air, by Jon Krachauer. Don't know if I spelled that right. It's about a Mount Everest expedition that went wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_Thin_Air

Centered3

To walk into your first AA meeting takes humility. To announce your name and call yourself an alcoholic takes humility (that is, if you're truly there for the right motives.) One cannot do the work of the 12 steps without true humility. To admit to someone that you can't stop drinking, your life is unmanageable, and you need help, takes humility. To realize you have to "quit playing God" takes humility. To get on your knees and turn your self-will and your life over to God/a Higher Power than yourself, at the 3rd step prayer takes humility. To share your story in a room full of strangers takes humility.

To put to pen and paper exactly how your thinking, behavior, and reactions to life have been your entire life, takes humility. To read outloud during your 5th step exactly how your thinking, behavior, and reactions to life, have been your entire life takes humility. To realize how you harmed others when you didn't mean to, takes humility. To look someone in the eye and apologize for the exact nature of how you wronged them, ask if there was anything else we could do to make it right, and then work daily on changing, can only take humility.

To wake up each and every morning and start this process all over again, for the rest of your life, with gratitude, takes humility. I feel very blessed to have my 12-step program and I wouldn't have changed one second of what I've experienced.

I highly doubt a person with a true personality disorder could have the humility it takes to work a true 12-step program. I don't mean to generalize, but my parents and sibling could hardly ever even mutter the words "I'm sorry", "I was wrong", or "I made a mistake"! And the few times my sister did, I realize now that she did it to be manipulative. It was all part of her twisted game.

I was taught in AA that pride is when we worry about and let it effect our sense of self what others think of us.

Thanks I'll check it out.

teatreeoil007

Very well put... you are a good writer! Amen to all you posted!

Centered3

Thank you. I'm really not a good writer. It's that I write truth.

Mango blast

When my husband is in active addiction or dry drunk he has narcissistic behaviors. Going No Contact is the only option I've found to work.

When he is sober and in recovery he is a completely different person.

My mother, father and brother have life-long consistent narcissistic behaviors. My mothers also has BPD behaviors and my father has very strong psychopath behaviors. I am seeing this now after a year of no contact and much recovery support for myself.

This isn't to diagnose others... this is for me to see and vocalize what I'm dealing with. This is critically important as I've been psychologically abused all my life and am working to identify and reprogram my faulty core beliefs about myself.

One step at a time.

One day at a time.

Praying and following where that leads... especially in strengthening my recovery support network including many professionals who are experienced with severely dysfunctional relationships.

Anaya

I found this original post on this thread, knowing it is from 2017, and today in 2020, it is immensely helpful. I am hoping that you, hopeful4, are in a better place at this point in time.

What hopeful 4 said in this paragraph really stands out to me, and that is, "Anyways, what he said really made sense to me. In dealing with a narcissist, no matter how hard you prepare, you know they are going to throw very cold water on you every single time. So no matter if you know it's coming up, no matter if you wear a raincoat, no matter what happens, after they do it, you are left standing there soaking wet and cold. So your option is to start stepping back or to keep getting soaked. You may not be able to get completely out of the way, but eventually you can move back enough that you are a little less wet each time." I can relate to the, "...you can move back enough that you are a little less wet each time." Sadly, I sometimes still engage and do not step back.

BeckoningCat

Yeah I think learning to not be surprised is a great thing. That's the only way I can describe it. Like, this person is not gonna change. And it's about them, not you.

It can be really hard if you love that person and you really want to believe in their ability to change. But people don't randomly change, they have to want to change, and go to therapy and/or get in addiction recovery and/or actively live that desire to change. They don't just randomly and magically wake up one day and starting treating you differently.

Congrats on coming to this point. I wish you all the best.

hopeful4

Wow. I forgot I even posted this to be honest. Yes, this was a game changer for me, when I was really learning how NOT to engage with my XAH.

I am in such a better place. I literally had to do two things. I blocked my XAH's wife. I have no reason at all to have to speak to her. Then I began work on my XAH and myself. Started responding EVERY SINGLE TIME with the same words. If it's not a CONSTRUCTIVE conversation regarding our children, I won't participate. Then I would not respond any longer. It took a while, but he did get it. At this point, we barely talk only when necessary and it's cordial. Key here for me was I had to do it every single time. If I took the bait even one time, it started all over again.

I also continued with counseling and my kids did too. They also had to learn not to be baited. They are strong, wonderful kids who absolutely handle things in an amazing way. They don't let his chaos take over their lives in any way. I have to admit (and knock on wood here), his actions got better around our children as well. Once my oldest did not have to go to his house anymore, that ended. His relationship with her is basically nothing. I think he could see that was going to happen again with our younger child if he did not change some things. So he does handle things better when our child is there (which is every other weekend). He still drinks like a fish, but can hold it together better when our child is there. Our child getting a bit older has helped too.

Thanks for bumping this post. It's nice to look back and see progress. For anyone in this position, I can only say that when you think it's not going to get any better and you are about to lose it, keep going! It does get better!

Big hugs SR friends! Everyone stay well!

Anaya

Many thanks for the informative responses.

Hopeful4: So positive and encouraging, and I am happy for you and your children.

Thank you for sharing.

thequest

Good to hear a positive update on an older but still relevant thread.

But the acting and phony interest/sincerity describes it here. The alcoholic has an extremely contrived image. They literally dress the part when in front of others outside the house. They even got mad when I pointed out they 'always dressed nice' about another alcoholic was to make it seem like they had their act together.

And talk about not being surprised and not reacting . I try to do that but the A then thinks that validates what ever comes out of their mouth. Sometimes surprising them and/or not validating their behavior works. At times it seems like they are fishing for comments or a reaction to various things. I don't take the bait as other have mentioned

Anaya

I try to not take the bait. On my "strong" days, when I have my boundaries firmly in place, I do much better. At times, I am caught off guard and fall back to the same old, same old patterns of behavior. I imagine going no contact would make all the difference in the world.

hopeful4

Anaya....I totally get it. It's HARD not to take the bait. Just letting you know I feel you, you are not alone in this journey!

Anaya

hopeful4: I truly do appreciate your reassuring words. Thank you

Anaya

I've revisited the article at the link shared below. It is helpful for me to go back and read; it helps for me to be reminded that as long as I continue to have contact, that I might still be vulnerable and, so, I need to keep my wits about me.

https://www.today.com/health/hidden-...onical_related

This is something for me to think about, "Not all gaslighting is intentional abuse, however; sometimes it’s learned behavior. But it is always manipulative."

trailmix

That's so true. It usually annoys me when I read narcissists or those high up on the narcissism scale being portrayed as some kind of evil mastermind. They aren't (well certainly all of them aren't). It's a way of thinking, a way of life, part of them. This is how they get by.

A sober person might call a friend or family member if they are feeling down. An alcoholic might make a run to the liquor store, a narcissist might find a way to tap some energy from someone else.