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Help in Forming Response to Alcoholic/Depressed Brother Who Keeps Asking for Money



Help in Forming Response to Alcoholic/Depressed Brother Who Keeps Asking for Money

Old 01-18-2017, 06:00 AM
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Help in Forming Response to Alcoholic/Depressed Brother Who Keeps Asking for Money

Hello Friends and Family group,

I haven't posted before in this forum and I appreciate any advice.

My brother is 50 years old. For 10 years he has not worked but been on disability supposedly due to depression. I wrote 'supposedly' because I actually think he could get his act together and work--at the very least volunteer, job train, work part time. He is also educated with a post-grad degree. I don't even think he regularly visits a psychologist any longer. Also, he drinks. He has, on different occasions, informed my mother and myself that he isn't, but when I recently questioned him about it, he struggled to give a sobriety date and said it's been off and on and 'hard'. (tell me about it). If he was sober, I know he'd know exactly how many months etc. It's pretty clear he still is drinking.

I just think he could get it together. I think this (accepting disability for a decade) is the easy way out--to not try to get healthy and achieve a normal life with a regular income. He sits at home all day. I think drinking (and other substances?) is still a HUGE factor in his inability to progress in life. I can't believe that with all the advantages he's had (yes, we had some rough childhood moments)--being white, well-educated, from a middle-class background--he is satisfied to remain stagnant in this welfare-dependent state until death. Really? I understand depression, but I also see him do NOTHING to advance his health and future in any way. It just boggles my mind.

The last time I spoke with him and his voice sounded 'off' -- my sister actually thinks there might be drugs involved. She thinks this b/c, on at least two occasions, he was 'robbed' of his money in weird circumstances. We live in a relatively safe city and he is over 6 feet. It just seems suspicious. Why lie about it? To maybe get money off my mother who has enabled him and defends that some people just aren't fit to work. I have said to her I don't think he's stopped drinking and she just believes whatever he tells her. She says she buys his groceries b/c she could never let her kids go hungry but, by doing so, she is still enabling him to stay in this dependent state and allowing the minimal disability funds to go to alcohol. She also does his laundry (yes picks it up and delivers it back!), and drives him to his appointments. He lost his license years ago with a second DUI-related incident.

At any rate, over the years, he has asked me for money. Sometimes I have given a small amount, other times I haven't. He says it's for bills but I think if he hadn't spent money on booze and whatever else, he'd still have money. I know heating is going up but this has been going on for years. One time he asked me for money for his heating bill and I paid it directly to the company; he didn't seem to like that. He always wants me to drop off cash to his house. He asks me b/c I'm the only one in town and my other sister gave him money once and told him to never ask her again. My mother has told him not to ask his siblings for money, yet here I am faced with two phone calls and an email asking for money again. He said he spent his money b/c of Christmas but he doesn't buy gifts for anyone, so the only explanation is drinking.

I also think that this gov't disability has gone on FAR too long and he COULD be getting his life on the right track. I can't believe he's OK with just living in this crappy little apartment for this measly cheque each month. It boggles my mind. He's a smart person and could have had a rewarding career--who knows, maybe it's too late at this point--but he hasn't and doesn't even TRY.

I'm not even in town and won't be until the end of the month. I want to email back with that fact, but I also want to respond with a pointed remark about not contributing to his life which I think is still very much enmeshed with drinking (he will say he's not though) and that I'm not contributing to his decision to remain dependent on gov't assistance for close to a decade and possibly for the rest of his life.


Any suggestions on how to word such a letter?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:06 AM
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I keep coming back to...No is a complete sentence.
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by suki44883 View Post
I keep coming back to...No is a complete sentence.
Would you leave it at that or do you think I should provide an explanation that I still think he's drinking, and I'm not contributing to that?
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:08 AM
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I think it's a waste of time, personally. I don't think it will make a dime's worth of difference in his lifestyle decisions.

"No" is a complete sentence. If you want to be more polite, then "Sorry, no." If you want him to stop asking you, do what your sister did (minus giving him the money first). "Sorry, I can't help you. Please don't ask me again."

I totally get your frustration. But the finer points of "enabling" will be lost on him.
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:09 AM
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Hi Ophelia, nice to see you here.

I'm sorry the situation is so difficult with your brother. In my experience, keeping it about your boundary rather than about his choices is your best bet for future peace and serenity. And as we are fond of saying around here, "No" is a complete sentence.

He is an adult who has the right to live however he chooses, as are you. If he is drinking, and as committed to living off family and government assistance as you say, there are no words you can offer that will change his mind. You can merely state that you do not have any money for him, and you would appreciate it if he did not ask you again in the future.

The most loving thing you can do for him is to refuse to enable him or to keep him from feeling the full consequence of his choices. Sending you strength and patience.
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:22 AM
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I agree, just "no".

Explaining can open a door for argument and weaken your position. You don't need to explain; he'll figure it out.

I understand how difficult it is, but it helped me to remember that a lot of the time I wanted to help so I would feel better about the situation.
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:35 AM
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Thanks, everyone.

I feel bad and love him but it is really upsetting.

I, too, struggle with depression and anxiety but, even when I was going through a crushing divorce I coped without any help from family and maintained my career. I also, somehow, was able to stop my toxic drinking patterns at this lowest point in my life. I have pointed him to this site and offered to just meet him for lunch but it seems he mostly only contacts me when he's in need of cash which is also hurtful. Three attempts at contacting me in three days for money when I hadn't heard from him in ages.

I am frustrated as I really think he could work and pull his life together. He is so privileged compared to so many out there. I do not begrudge those who need assistance but I think he could have done things in the past ten years to get himself out of this rut, especially stop drinking.

He said something on one of the voicemails about the dates of "getting paid" and how he only has five dollars until February. Where did his money go especially if my mother is paying for his groceries? It makes no sense; it's not like he spent his money on 'gifts'.
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:42 AM
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RevivingOphelia.....OH, girl.....you are in the same situation that millions of loved ones face, with family members..... I have faced it, also...

It is so easy to tell someone else...just say "NO". And, maybe that is the answer....
I want to say that I get where the really difficult part is-----Most of us were raised, being taught various moral values....in our family, in school, in church, or the culture, at large.....WE are taught to honor family--to always be there for out sister or brother--that it is good to be charitable--"there, but for the grace of God, goes me", blood is thicker than water, family must always stick together, etc....
We are NOT, usually, taught what to do when a struggling person is not pulling their own weight as much as they are able....or when they are taking advantage of circumstances...or, defaulting on their own responsibilities....and when they manipulate us by tapping o n our own good nature....
This causes us extreme inner discomfort and lots of guilt feelings when we are implored to act against what we were taught.....it feels like a "twisting", inside...
And, it causes a jumble of emotions...sadness, anger, confusion....

Here is my own personal take on it....I think it is o.k. to write the letter, if you want to. Now, I doubt that it will change him, and, probably not make any difference in his future behaviors....not, based on one letter by you....
But, if it makes YOU feel better...then I say to go for it....(if he is entitles to ask--you are entitled to have your say!)......

We all have to live with ourselves. Myself--there have been times that I have sent the money...and, times that I have said "no". I guess it all boiled down to circumstances and how I was feeling at the time.....
I do think it is good to remember that asking family is usually the easiest way out...especially, when the "problem" is drugs and alcohol (only).
Human resourcefulness dictates that they will find another way to get what they need/want, if the family doesn't come across,first.....

You sound l ike a very caring sister, to me. I can see that you are trying to do the right thing..... my heart goes out to you....

I just offer my thoughts on this in the hope that they may be of some help to you......
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:56 AM
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Just one other suggestion. You might try checking out Al-Anon. Being a sober alcoholic doesn't make us exempt from having to deal with other alcoholics in our lives.
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Old 01-18-2017, 07:03 AM
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I also think that this gov't disability has gone on FAR too long and he COULD be getting his life on the right track. I can't believe he's OK with just living in this crappy little apartment for this measly cheque each month. It boggles my mind. He's a smart person and could have had a rewarding career--who knows, maybe it's too late at this point--but he hasn't and doesn't even TRY.

but see, that is your opinion on how someone else SHOULD be living their life. he's 50 and he's "earned" the right to live as he sees fit, to do as much or as little as he chooses. even if you don't approve.

and your mom also has the right to enable him if she chooses. if she wants to buy his groceries and do his laundry, that's her choice. knowing that he certainly won't starve to death, or run out of clean undies.

you have the right to NOT give him a dime if you choose. it's your money. it's no different than a telemarketer or some fly by night non-profit asking you to donate. you get to say no. period.

live and let live.
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:52 AM
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Hi Ophelia! Nice to see you here, I'm sorry you are going through this with your brother.

This is just my thought process. He has done this for years. Whatever you say is not likely to change his actions, so is there any point? I too suffer with anxiety. I find when I work my anxiety is lower due to being able to refocus. However, not everyone is the same. It amazes me how many people tell me (in the course of my work I have to ask occupation), they are on disability. It's the most abused system out there.

Hugs to you. I agree that NO is a complete sentence.

Come here to get support anytime!
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:26 AM
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I am frustrated as I really think he could work and pull his life together.

actually think he could get his act together and work--at the very least volunteer, job train, work part time.

I also think that this gov't disability has gone on FAR too long and he COULD be getting his life on the right track. I can't believe he's OK with just living in this crappy little apartment for this measly cheque each month.

It doesn't matter what you think, sorry to say. It's what he thinks that counts. He is a grown man who will do as he likes. I think you are judging him possibly unfairly too. He is on disability for a reason. Personally I'd not bother with writing a letter. It is a waste of a tree. He won't get it. My feelings is to take your focus off him and back to your own life. If he asks for money the short answer, as has been said, is no. You don't have to justify, explain or get into arguments with him. It's your money.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Ladybird579 View Post
I think you are judging him possibly unfairly too. He is on disability for a reason.
No, I think he has not been judged harshly enough, and I think he has been coddled far too much by my mother. I am as progressive as they come and have zero issues with my high tax bracket helping others; however, he is definitely one of those people who have used the system to his advantage and has put no effort getting healthier and getting off welfare. The reason he's on disability is b/c it's easier to stay on it and 'get by' even if that means having his mother buy his groceries, do his laundry, and ask his sister for money. He's physically able to work; for years he has been physically able to go out to the pub. He has let the 'system' take care of his immediate needs and it has fostered dependency. He doesn't even help my own mother out. He doesn't even volunteer. I hate to say it but he's one of the ones we know our tax dollars are being used to support a person who SHOULD be contributing and not using the system--especially after ten years.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:23 AM
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I know--the system can sometimes be incredibly unfair. I know people with excruciating chronic pain who have been battling to get their disability for YEARS. I'm a big social services liberal, too, but there are definitely those who game the system. The entitlement sensibility of some people is astounding.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by RevivingOphelia View Post
No, I think he has not been judged harshly enough, and I think he has been coddled far too much by my mother. I am as progressive as they come and have zero issues with my high tax bracket helping others; however, he is definitely one of those people who have used the system to his advantage and has put no effort getting healthier and getting off welfare. The reason he's on disability is b/c it's easier to stay on it and 'get by' even if that means having his mother buy his groceries, do his laundry, and ask his sister for money. He's physically able to work; for years he has been physically able to go out to the pub. He has let the 'system' take care of his immediate needs and it has fostered dependency. He doesn't even help my own mother out. He doesn't even volunteer. I hate to say it but he's one of the ones we know our tax dollars are being used to support a person who SHOULD be contributing and not using the system--especially after ten years.
As I said what you ( or anyone) thinks is not what counts. It's what he thinks that count and how he decides to lead HIS life. Your opinion of him and his situation does not make it so. It is your judgement. I would say, again, focus on yourself cos from reading this you spend far too much time focusing on him.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Ladybird579 View Post
I would say, again, focus on yourself cos from reading this you spend far too much time focusing on him.
I'm focusing on him and this issue right now b/c I was asked for the third time in three days for money. That's what this forum is for--to seek advice/support.

I heard your advice the first time. No need to repeat it.
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Old 01-18-2017, 11:54 AM
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I guess, knowing that he isn't likely to change based on what you say to him, the real question is what it does for you to give him a piece of your mind. What are you hoping to achieve? Is it to get him to stop asking you for money? Is it just to unload your anger?

I completely understand the urge to unload. But will it make your anger over it go away? Lessen it? Or will it just feed your sense of indignation? In my own experience, feeding my resentments is often counterproductive for ME.
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Old 01-18-2017, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
I guess, knowing that he isn't likely to change based on what you say to him, the real question is what it does for you to give him a piece of your mind. What are you hoping to achieve? Is it to get him to stop asking you for money? Is it just to unload your anger?

I completely understand the urge to unload. But will it make your anger over it go away? Lessen it? Or will it just feed your sense of indignation? In my own experience, feeding my resentments is often counterproductive for ME.
I'm not sure if "unloading" would lesson or feed the anger, indignation, and resentment. Also, I wasn't really planning to "unload" on him (that's what this thread is for!). My original question was more to how to frame a succinct but clear retort to the latest demand for money with a VERY brief explanation that outlines that I'm not helping him when he's not done a thing to help himself.

Why does everyone have to tiptoe around it/him? I don't think anyone has said to him that he could have gotten it together a long time ago and no one is buying his "but I'm not drinking" story. I don't think anyone has said to get your sh*t together, get sober, get a life. He physically abused one of my sisters (eventually kicked out after multiple times) when we were teens and his DUIs were paid for by my parents. After losing is job and a break up ten years ago (very brief online relationship), he became depressed and I thought temporarily went on assistance. My sister, at the time, (the one he assaulted) said, "He'll never get off it now, just watch." She's also the one who gave him a lump sum one time and told her never to ask again. I can understand a temporary need for support, but for ten years he has made no effort to forge a healthy adult life and continues to spend his meagre welfare on drink/smokes and gets food from my mother who thinks he's just one of those 'unfit' people who are mentally unable to cope. Yeah, right.

Although I thought it might be good for someone (me) to give him a concrete reason as to why I'm not giving him money, after reading the responses from the experts in this forum, it seems that the best route is no explanation--just sorry, no and maybe add and please don't ask again.
On the other hand, I could just ignore it. He doesn't even realize I'm not in town. Ugh, still undecided.
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Old 01-18-2017, 01:05 PM
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I suspect people tiptoe around him because he's done a good job of manipulating people into feeling sorry for him.

It's hard for me to imagine NO ONE he's ever run across has pointed out that he's a bum and a mooch. Maybe nobody in your family has, but it's hard to imagine that he's reached the age of 50 and nobody's ever suggested it to him. I suspect, though, any such unpleasant thoughts go in one ear and out the other--anything from you would probably be treated the same way.

I'm of the personal opinion that the fewer the words, and the more quietly said, the less harm to anyone involved. A diatribe from you might just add fuel to his own resentments (though I know it's hard to imagine he has anything to be resentful about, he probably has them).

So probably the least damaging thing you could say (least damaging for all concerned) is probably just to politely, but cooly, decline and ask that he not ask again.
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Old 01-18-2017, 01:15 PM
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Ophelia, I do think you have good cause to say to please do not ask again. If he has moved onto drugs, it will burn though whatever money he does have, and that is good cause to make it clear, up front, that you cannot and will not give him any money. I also think it's worth saying that it's a really bad idea to comingle funds with family members.

Hugs to you. Come vent out your frustrations anytime!
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