Experience with section 35 in MA?
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Experience with section 35 in MA?
Anyone have any experience with filing a section 35 in Massachusetts? My AH went on a bender this weekend and is now missing for 24 hours. Police suggested I file a section 35, and I've heard that before too. Sounds awful, but maybe it's necessary? AH has an open DCF case, if that matters at all in this case.
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It's pretty drastic, but given your situation with the kids, it might be worth considering. Here's something from the Mass. website: Section 35 - FAQ
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Just looking at the website info (I don't practice in MA), it looks like a pretty difficult threshold to meet. Danger to self (suicide attempts), danger to others (violent/homicidal behavior) (doesn't look like child neglect, DUI with kids qualifies), or so impaired cannot care for himself in the community.
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Last time this happened wasn't he just holed up someplace drinking in relative comfort for a few days while you wore yourself out worrying and searching for him? His primary concern after drinking seems to be maintaining his own comfort and convenience, so I doubt very much that he is suspended by his ankles over a vat of ravenous piranhas, in mortal danger.
He didn't take the tent this time, or make a big production of telling you where he was. Much more effective to let you worry and wonder. He saw how well that worked before and is probably just doubling down the manipulation. He knows where your buttons are, he programmed some of them himself. He's burrowed into his comfy life like a tick and isn't just going to let go because his behavior is hurting you or the kids.
If he is in real danger, or meets the sec. 35 criteria, then isn't it pretty likely that he'll land himself in jail or a hospital bed anyway, without any interference from you?
He didn't take the tent this time, or make a big production of telling you where he was. Much more effective to let you worry and wonder. He saw how well that worked before and is probably just doubling down the manipulation. He knows where your buttons are, he programmed some of them himself. He's burrowed into his comfy life like a tick and isn't just going to let go because his behavior is hurting you or the kids.
If he is in real danger, or meets the sec. 35 criteria, then isn't it pretty likely that he'll land himself in jail or a hospital bed anyway, without any interference from you?
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As I understand it, Dreaming, when a judge concurs that a person is a danger to him/herself or others, the person is then assigned to a state approved detox facility for a period of time. In the southeast it could be a facility like Bridgewater State Hospital. People can file section 35 on their own, or use an attorney.
A state detox bed is no picnic. It would get him out of the house for a while, if that is what you are seeking.
A state detox bed is no picnic. It would get him out of the house for a while, if that is what you are seeking.
Last edited by Maudcat; 01-17-2017 at 05:22 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Dreaming....I hope the website that Lexie suggested is of some clarification for you.....
Here is my first thought---didn't you take the kids and stay at his relative's home for a night? Aren't you giving off a vibe that you may be distancing yourself from the relationship?.....
I would bet that he is trying to "punish " you and pull you back into line. He knows what your hot buttons are.....that if he leaves and hides, you will be scurrying around with intense anxiety. He knows that this throws you off-balance...big time. In his mind, this gives him the upper hand and returns the balance of power to it's previous status.
Pf course, I am no more clairvoyant than anyone else....but, this is just my first guess--given the history that you have shared....
You must be mentally and physically exhausted---or, at least, getting there....
It is no good if the children's mother gets to the p oint of burn-out....and, it is a painful way for the mother to live......
Here is my first thought---didn't you take the kids and stay at his relative's home for a night? Aren't you giving off a vibe that you may be distancing yourself from the relationship?.....
I would bet that he is trying to "punish " you and pull you back into line. He knows what your hot buttons are.....that if he leaves and hides, you will be scurrying around with intense anxiety. He knows that this throws you off-balance...big time. In his mind, this gives him the upper hand and returns the balance of power to it's previous status.
Pf course, I am no more clairvoyant than anyone else....but, this is just my first guess--given the history that you have shared....
You must be mentally and physically exhausted---or, at least, getting there....
It is no good if the children's mother gets to the p oint of burn-out....and, it is a painful way for the mother to live......
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Yes, I am exhausted- thus my inquiry into the section 35. Not sure if you all are telling me I shouldn't bother with the section 35 and just leave him to his own devices, or to do it? Section 35 has been suggested to me by police and at a support group. It does seem very difficult to prove, and trust me, I don't want to waste my time in court!
AH is in ER, picked up by police while passed out in his car. Hopefully he comes to his senses and agrees to detox & treatment. I want to know what my rights are if he doesn't agree. I don't want him home!
AH is in ER, picked up by police while passed out in his car. Hopefully he comes to his senses and agrees to detox & treatment. I want to know what my rights are if he doesn't agree. I don't want him home!
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I don't think anyone can tell you the right thing to do here. Lexie is an attorney and you read what she said.
Have you asked him to stay elsewhere? He may just do it out of shame at this point. If he won't, the next step is an attorney, in my opinion. Why not file for legal separation and ask for him to not live in the house? This is the perfect time to do it, regardless if he agrees to treatment or not. I doubt that he's ready yet.
Have you asked him to stay elsewhere? He may just do it out of shame at this point. If he won't, the next step is an attorney, in my opinion. Why not file for legal separation and ask for him to not live in the house? This is the perfect time to do it, regardless if he agrees to treatment or not. I doubt that he's ready yet.
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Fyi, Dreaming. We have called the emts when my sib has lost his balance and fallen. In his town, police officers accompany the emt call. Each time they have recommended that he be sectioned and placed in detox.
I think law enforcement frequently mentionsit, in the event that the person isn't aware that it is an option.
I think law enforcement frequently mentionsit, in the event that the person isn't aware that it is an option.
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Dreaming....I concur with biminiblue......I wish I could tell you what to do in this situation, about the section 35, but, I can't....Legal advice is the best advice, I think. You still have to make the decision, though, after you have heard the legal advice.
I do think that medical detox is a good direction.....followed by inpatient rehab...preferably, in a dual diagnosis facility--given his mental health issues. Then, sober living situation after rehab is completed....
If I were in your shoes...I would make it abundantly clear that you don't want him to come back home from the E.R....and, I w ould make sure that the staff of the ER knows this......The ER staff can get the social worker on duty to talk to him about where to go....
If he is uncooperative....and walks out of the E R.....then, filing for divorce/separation through your lawyer would be one option to keep him from the house....but, it still won't happen, overnight. If he becomes abusive to you or the kids...that will be a different story and you might have to go to the restraining order route---with advice of the police and your lawyer......
Dreaming...this is going to to be a "battle"....because you want one thing...and, he wants another.....
Perhaps, he could consult with his counselor at the IOP that he has been attending...he/she might have some influence with him.....
I know that this isn't easy. It is very hard, in fact. Please try to make your decisions as to what is in your and the kids' best welfare, in the big picture.
He is not able to think of your welfare...his brain is not capable of that, right now.
I do think that medical detox is a good direction.....followed by inpatient rehab...preferably, in a dual diagnosis facility--given his mental health issues. Then, sober living situation after rehab is completed....
If I were in your shoes...I would make it abundantly clear that you don't want him to come back home from the E.R....and, I w ould make sure that the staff of the ER knows this......The ER staff can get the social worker on duty to talk to him about where to go....
If he is uncooperative....and walks out of the E R.....then, filing for divorce/separation through your lawyer would be one option to keep him from the house....but, it still won't happen, overnight. If he becomes abusive to you or the kids...that will be a different story and you might have to go to the restraining order route---with advice of the police and your lawyer......
Dreaming...this is going to to be a "battle"....because you want one thing...and, he wants another.....
Perhaps, he could consult with his counselor at the IOP that he has been attending...he/she might have some influence with him.....
I know that this isn't easy. It is very hard, in fact. Please try to make your decisions as to what is in your and the kids' best welfare, in the big picture.
He is not able to think of your welfare...his brain is not capable of that, right now.
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I think that Maudcat is right...that the police will state the possible options to you, as a matter of policy...but, it is up to you to follow up and make decisions on what actions you will actually take.....same with the support group....
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Thank you all for the advise! I know you can't tell me what to do, but hearing options to consider makes me feel less crazy somehow. This is the hardest thing I've ever had to dal with, by far.
I'm planning to go talk to him later in ER and let him know, again, that I don't want him home. ER won't tell me anything over the phone- so going to tell them too. Hopefully he makes the right choice on his own and I don't have to proceed further, but I do have a lawyer on standby to help with either section 35 or separation.
I'm planning to go talk to him later in ER and let him know, again, that I don't want him home. ER won't tell me anything over the phone- so going to tell them too. Hopefully he makes the right choice on his own and I don't have to proceed further, but I do have a lawyer on standby to help with either section 35 or separation.
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Thanks Jaeger!
I talked to AH a few times today but never went to ER. He's still out of it, and on valium etc., so no point having an actual conversation. I told him I didn't want him home, was thinking of separation and section 35, and that he needed to get help. He got admitted to detox - not sure if that was his request or hospitals, but nonetheless he's not home. I might go tomorrow, but honestly not sure I want to even see him at this point.
Now I need to figure out how to tell all this to our DCF SW!
I talked to AH a few times today but never went to ER. He's still out of it, and on valium etc., so no point having an actual conversation. I told him I didn't want him home, was thinking of separation and section 35, and that he needed to get help. He got admitted to detox - not sure if that was his request or hospitals, but nonetheless he's not home. I might go tomorrow, but honestly not sure I want to even see him at this point.
Now I need to figure out how to tell all this to our DCF SW!
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Yes - child services social worker. He has an open case with them - found negligent because he told an ER nurse that he'd been drinking while home alone with the girls while I was away for work, back when I still trusted him. I might as well say "we" have an open case b/c I just got a Service Plan from them last week that I'm supposed to sign, along with my AH, saying that I'll encourage him to remain sober, etc. Scary stuff.
He got admitted to hospital to detox, and apparently said he wanted to harm himself so he's under suicide watch until psych sees him (apparently later today). Social Worker supposed to see him this afternoon too. I've told everyone I've talked to that I don't want him home & want him to seek treatment. I think AH got the message, so I'm going to hold off pursuing anything legally for the time being. Still talking to a lawyer about separation, but just b/c I want to know my rights should he deny treatment - you never know!
In other news, in the past few days my front door lock broke so I can't lock it, my toilet broke, AH completely busted a bedroom window.... there was a 2 hour delay at one daughter's school, and a bomb threat at the preschool my other daughter goes too. When it rains it pours!!!
He got admitted to hospital to detox, and apparently said he wanted to harm himself so he's under suicide watch until psych sees him (apparently later today). Social Worker supposed to see him this afternoon too. I've told everyone I've talked to that I don't want him home & want him to seek treatment. I think AH got the message, so I'm going to hold off pursuing anything legally for the time being. Still talking to a lawyer about separation, but just b/c I want to know my rights should he deny treatment - you never know!
In other news, in the past few days my front door lock broke so I can't lock it, my toilet broke, AH completely busted a bedroom window.... there was a 2 hour delay at one daughter's school, and a bomb threat at the preschool my other daughter goes too. When it rains it pours!!!
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Well, the suicide threat might be enough to support the section 35.
These "plans" that try to make the competent parent responsible for the other parent's behavior stick in my craw. Sometimes kids get taken away from DV victims who "allow" the children to witness the abuse. Good luck on preventing THAT.
Actually, though, that might be a good reason for you to request the commitment. It will support your case with them by showing you're doing what you can.
These "plans" that try to make the competent parent responsible for the other parent's behavior stick in my craw. Sometimes kids get taken away from DV victims who "allow" the children to witness the abuse. Good luck on preventing THAT.
Actually, though, that might be a good reason for you to request the commitment. It will support your case with them by showing you're doing what you can.
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