Please help me support my friend. I don't understand.
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Please help me support my friend. I don't understand.
My best friend has been sober for a little more than 6 months now! (YAY) But, unfortunately, I've seen more problems stem from that. We argue about it, but she says I don't understand. I just want to understand.
Here's the story.
She was an alcoholic. She used alcohol to get through the day, to have fun at night, and to sleep. The last one is the most important one here. When she drank alcohol, she also drank a ton of energy drinks to stay awake during the day. Since getting sober, she's picked up other "habits." One of them has been the excessive use of energy drinks.
I'm not talking about 1 or 2 a day, I'm talking about 3 or 4 full sized full throttles or the large red bulls. Yes, I understand that she needs something "else" to drink so she won't feel the need to drink alcohol. There's no need to break the habit of drinking "something" just as long as the "something" isn't alcohol it's good. I understand that part (I think, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
But it's starting to affect her daily life. She can't sleep because she used alcohol to sleep for so long and because she drinks energy drinks ALL day, even up until a half hour before she goes to bed. (Or rather, tries to go to bed.) So to combat this, her doctors have started giving her sleeping pills. Ok, so sleeping pills every once in a while is ok, but this has been going on for a long time. Sleeping pills for a few months, then she runs out and goes without them for a couple months, then asks the doc for more, without ever changing her energy drink habit.
I don't understand how she can constantly play with these stimulants and depressants so much and not see that it is bad. I mean, she DOES see it, but she's not willing to change. I don't see how an "addict" (how she describes herself) will be able to take sleeping pills regularly and not get addicted to them. Is that not where this is leading?
Our whole recent argument stemmed over me asking her not to drink the energy drink after 5 PM. Well, she suggested it first after she couldn't sleep last night. I was OVERJOYED! Then she fell back asleep and went back on her word because she has "things" to do. When I asked her to keep her word she said that I don't understand and she knows more than me because she's lived it and her doctors obviously know more than me. Well yes, they do know more than me, but does she tell them everything? I don't know. I see her every day, I know more about her day to day life than anybody, even her doctors. And as a rational person I can't support this lifestyle. She's running herself into the ground.
EDIT: In a way, I don't understand. I'm pretty much as straight of an arrow as they come. I don't drink, I exercise, and I have no desire to try any drugs. So I really can't relate on that front, but I try to empathize.
I told her today that I've never seen her give an honest try at getting a good sleeping rhythm and getting less dependant on energy drinks. Her response was "I tried last weekend." We're both scientists, she knows 2 days isn't enough time to change a habit like that. Then she got even more angry with me when I told her that.
The thing I don't get the most is this. How can the doctors suggest becoming addicted to something else to stop alcohol addiction? That's not solving the problem, it's gently nudging it aside.
I just see two outcomes from drinking energy drinks so much.
1. Addiction to sleeping pills.
2. Back to alcohol so she can sleep.
Both of those things are unacceptable.
I want my friend back. I want my friend healthy. I want to understand. Please help me understand. I'm doing my best.
I can't sit here and watch her do these destructive things without saying something. I refuse to do nothing.
She's my best friend. I don't want to lose her.
Here's the story.
She was an alcoholic. She used alcohol to get through the day, to have fun at night, and to sleep. The last one is the most important one here. When she drank alcohol, she also drank a ton of energy drinks to stay awake during the day. Since getting sober, she's picked up other "habits." One of them has been the excessive use of energy drinks.
I'm not talking about 1 or 2 a day, I'm talking about 3 or 4 full sized full throttles or the large red bulls. Yes, I understand that she needs something "else" to drink so she won't feel the need to drink alcohol. There's no need to break the habit of drinking "something" just as long as the "something" isn't alcohol it's good. I understand that part (I think, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
But it's starting to affect her daily life. She can't sleep because she used alcohol to sleep for so long and because she drinks energy drinks ALL day, even up until a half hour before she goes to bed. (Or rather, tries to go to bed.) So to combat this, her doctors have started giving her sleeping pills. Ok, so sleeping pills every once in a while is ok, but this has been going on for a long time. Sleeping pills for a few months, then she runs out and goes without them for a couple months, then asks the doc for more, without ever changing her energy drink habit.
I don't understand how she can constantly play with these stimulants and depressants so much and not see that it is bad. I mean, she DOES see it, but she's not willing to change. I don't see how an "addict" (how she describes herself) will be able to take sleeping pills regularly and not get addicted to them. Is that not where this is leading?
Our whole recent argument stemmed over me asking her not to drink the energy drink after 5 PM. Well, she suggested it first after she couldn't sleep last night. I was OVERJOYED! Then she fell back asleep and went back on her word because she has "things" to do. When I asked her to keep her word she said that I don't understand and she knows more than me because she's lived it and her doctors obviously know more than me. Well yes, they do know more than me, but does she tell them everything? I don't know. I see her every day, I know more about her day to day life than anybody, even her doctors. And as a rational person I can't support this lifestyle. She's running herself into the ground.
EDIT: In a way, I don't understand. I'm pretty much as straight of an arrow as they come. I don't drink, I exercise, and I have no desire to try any drugs. So I really can't relate on that front, but I try to empathize.
I told her today that I've never seen her give an honest try at getting a good sleeping rhythm and getting less dependant on energy drinks. Her response was "I tried last weekend." We're both scientists, she knows 2 days isn't enough time to change a habit like that. Then she got even more angry with me when I told her that.
The thing I don't get the most is this. How can the doctors suggest becoming addicted to something else to stop alcohol addiction? That's not solving the problem, it's gently nudging it aside.
I just see two outcomes from drinking energy drinks so much.
1. Addiction to sleeping pills.
2. Back to alcohol so she can sleep.
Both of those things are unacceptable.
I want my friend back. I want my friend healthy. I want to understand. Please help me understand. I'm doing my best.
I can't sit here and watch her do these destructive things without saying something. I refuse to do nothing.
She's my best friend. I don't want to lose her.
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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Welcome to SR. She will always be an alcoholic even if she is sober. Unfortunately you cannot help her change. Only she can do that if and when she decides too. You are right she has swapped one thing for another but it is her call. It 's better if you concentrate on yourself and step back from her. Her sobriety needs constant work and whatever she is or isn't doing on that score is not your responsibility to fix. If you read the stickies at the top of the forum it will give you some great information on how to help yourself through this. Keep posting and asking questions. You will get lot of support here.
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Originally Posted by Ladybird579 
Welcome to SR. She will always be an alcoholic even if she is sober. Unfortunately you cannot help her change. Only she can do that if and when she decides too. You are right she has swapped one thing for another but it is her call. It 's better if you concentrate on yourself and step back from her. Her sobriety needs constant work and whatever she is or isn't doing on that score is not your responsibility to fix. If you read the stickies at the top of the forum it will give you some great information on how to help yourself through this. Keep posting and asking questions. You will get lot of support here.
EDIT: I'm not telling her what to do. I know that's wrong. I never yell at her, I never belittle her. I just ask her if she thinks something would be a good idea or try to ask her questions to get her to come to the conclusion herself. "Do you think that you couldn't sleep because you were drinking (whatever drink) at 8:30?"
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And now... after another bout, she's blaming her insomnia not on the post alcohol insomnia, or caffeine induced insomnia, but because I told her I loved her (months ago.)
I can't get through. I don't understand. Why blame the non-obvious thing when there are two very obvious things that are most likely causing it?
Is this not classic addictive behavior?
I can't get through. I don't understand. Why blame the non-obvious thing when there are two very obvious things that are most likely causing it?
Is this not classic addictive behavior?
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Unfortunately, ladybird is right. You can't change her. And you're not being a worse friend by letting her make her own choices. In fact, you're being a better friend, because she needs to learn about herself right now. Trying to control any addict or alcoholics behavior does NOT help them. In fact, it does the opposite, because it enables them to rely on someone else to work their recovery for them. That is not helpful in any way, shape or form. I know it's hard to hear, but it's the truth. You're not going to find a whole lot of recovering alcoholics who are going to disagree with me on this, either on this forum or else where. Your part is to detach with love and love her enough to let her make her own choices, weather you agree with them or not.
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No. I never said be a worse friend but you cannot get her to change no matter what you do. That's the truth. I know you don't want to hear that but others will come along and say the same soon. You can care about her without caring for her. Big difference. I also never said you were telling her what to do or belittling her or yelling at her but you do think you can somehow fix her by saying something. She already knows why she can't sleep. You trying to get her to draw conclusions is pointless. At this point she doesn't care.
Why blame the non-obvious thing when there are two very obvious things that are most likely causing it?
Alcoholics are big on things to blame for the way they behave that is why she is blaming you cos she is ignoring the obvious. She doesn't want to face the obvious. I am not sure what you are getting from this friendship except a lot of worry and being worn down.
Why blame the non-obvious thing when there are two very obvious things that are most likely causing it?
Alcoholics are big on things to blame for the way they behave that is why she is blaming you cos she is ignoring the obvious. She doesn't want to face the obvious. I am not sure what you are getting from this friendship except a lot of worry and being worn down.
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Originally Posted by Ladybird579
No. I never said be a worse friend but you cannot get her to change no matter what you do. That's the truth. I know you don't want to hear that but others will come along and say the same soon. You can care about her without caring for her. Big difference. I also never said you were telling her what to do or belittling her or yelling at her but you do think you can somehow fix her by saying something. She already knows why she can't sleep. You trying to get her to draw conclusions is pointless. At this point she doesn't care.
Why blame the non-obvious thing when there are two very obvious things that are most likely causing it?
Alcoholics are big on things to blame for the way they behave that is why she is blaming you cos she is ignoring the obvious. She doesn't want to face the obvious. I am not sure what you are getting from this friendship except a lot of worry and being worn down.
Why blame the non-obvious thing when there are two very obvious things that are most likely causing it?
Alcoholics are big on things to blame for the way they behave that is why she is blaming you cos she is ignoring the obvious. She doesn't want to face the obvious. I am not sure what you are getting from this friendship except a lot of worry and being worn down.
She's been like this for years, even before she quit drinking. She just didn't take sleeping pills then. She just drank "3 shots" before she went to bed. Nothing has changed, she's still heading downhill. (Albeit with a significant bump from quitting drinking.)
She's going to kill herself if she continues like this. I just want her to live.
EDIT: Let me ask the former alcoholics here (or whatever the phrase is... sorry). Do you eventually realize what you're doing? Are you able to see the destructive tendencies? Did you go through something like this when you stopped? How did you figure it out?
EDIT2: A deadly real world consequence of this addiction. She has missed various appointments to get her snow tires put on her car because she slept through them. Driving without snow tires here is... deadly. She could very easily end up in an accident and die.
I've offered to take the car to the tire place. I've offered to pick her up, I've offered to drop her off, I've offered to do it for her. I've done everything I can. I just want her to be safe.
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You are being a friend by not living in denial. You're friend will continue to live in denial until she herself is willing to see it and face the truth. You need to take care of yourself because if you're worn down you won't have the energy to help her, if and when she is ready to face it. Maybe check out an alanon program.
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Originally Posted by hearthealth
You are being a friend by not living in denial. You're friend will continue to live in denial until she herself is willing to see it and face the truth. You need to take care of yourself because if you're worn down you won't have the energy to help her, if and when she is ready to face it. Maybe check out an alanon program.
As for the programs, the local one follows a 12 step program (modified from the AA one), but I don't understand. What is my problem? I care too much? Is that a problem?
Be blunt with me. I'm not someone who beats around the bush and I have a thick skin.
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Do you take care of yourself? Are you able to have the life you want for yourself. Are you too focused on your friend? Only you can answer this questions. There's extremes to everything, even caring about others but only you know when to step back. She needs to want and need and do for herself or she will not get better. A cheerleader is on the sideline not on the field.
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I am a recovered alcoholic and codependent. We call that a, "double winner," in recovery circles.
Straight up?
Give her the dignity to make her own free-will choices. You're not her mama and you're not her God.
Just do you, boo. Let go. You're worrying about something over which you have no control. Lack of sleep isn't going to kill her. The tires - she'll learn.
And you asked if we went through this? Most addicts go through a lot of misery before they actually get it together. Many don't get it together ever or not for decades - and many end up in jail or dead. You cannot prevent that from happening. Read the sticky posts.
If having someone care about an addict could save them, there would be no addicts.
Straight up?
Give her the dignity to make her own free-will choices. You're not her mama and you're not her God.
Just do you, boo. Let go. You're worrying about something over which you have no control. Lack of sleep isn't going to kill her. The tires - she'll learn.
And you asked if we went through this? Most addicts go through a lot of misery before they actually get it together. Many don't get it together ever or not for decades - and many end up in jail or dead. You cannot prevent that from happening. Read the sticky posts.
If having someone care about an addict could save them, there would be no addicts.
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Here's the thing: you're right. Problem is, it 100% doesn't matter.
She's going to do what she's going to do and no amount of logic, wheedling, persuasion, talk, crying, shouting, anything that you do is going to do anything but enmesh you in a problem that only she can solve. You're a scientist...research codependency. This board is a great place for support and information.
One thought, given how she does now seem addicted to energy drinks...are you certain she's not adding alcohol to them?
She's going to do what she's going to do and no amount of logic, wheedling, persuasion, talk, crying, shouting, anything that you do is going to do anything but enmesh you in a problem that only she can solve. You're a scientist...research codependency. This board is a great place for support and information.
One thought, given how she does now seem addicted to energy drinks...are you certain she's not adding alcohol to them?
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Originally Posted by corrado33
I don't care how worried or worn down I become. She's my friend. I'd gladly take her burden any and every day for the rest of my life. And I'm not belittling the burden of an addict. But I would much rather struggle than see her struggle.
.
.
This must be gut wrenching to watch your friend in this self-destructive behavior. All of us here have been in similar, if not exact situations. It is indeed heart breaking. Anyone of us has felt what you wrote above with our own qualifiers (a qualifier is an alcoholic with whom you have a relationship).
People can indeed recover from addiction/alcoholism but it is super difficult. The best help for them is from fellow recovering alcoholics not from family and friends.
Please browse the stickies at the top of this forum. There is lots of information for those of us who have been or are in relationships with alcoholics.
Also you may want to check in on the forum for Alcoholic Recovery Newcomers. It is both encouraging and heart wrenching to see how hard people are working to get sober and how common relapse is for recovering users.
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Originally Posted by Ariesagain
Here's the thing: you're right. Problem is, it 100% doesn't matter.
She's going to do what she's going to do and no amount of logic, wheedling, persuasion, talk, crying, shouting, anything that you do is going to do anything but enmesh you in a problem that only she can solve. You're a scientist...research codependency. This board is a great place for support and information.
One thought, given how she does now seem addicted to energy drinks...are you certain she's not adding alcohol to them?
She's going to do what she's going to do and no amount of logic, wheedling, persuasion, talk, crying, shouting, anything that you do is going to do anything but enmesh you in a problem that only she can solve. You're a scientist...research codependency. This board is a great place for support and information.
One thought, given how she does now seem addicted to energy drinks...are you certain she's not adding alcohol to them?
excessive emotional or psychological reliance on a partner, typically a partner who requires support due to an illness or addiction.
I'm often sad about her, but I'm not a sad person. (I'm genuinely a happy person, most of the time... no one can be happy all of the time!)
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Oh and can you guys point me to the stickies you're mentioning? I've clicked on quite a few but can't seem to find what you're talking about?
EDIT: Found one on codependency. I got this far.
I cannot do this. I am a scientist. I am not religious. I cannot rely on an unknown power to do something about a problem that's in front of my face.
EDIT: Found one on codependency. I got this far.
2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood God.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood God.
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Sticky posts are at the top of the subforum, here:
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ly-alcoholics/
Look for this:
and the word, "Sticky" - they are locked at the top of the forum and are threads with a lot of good general information.
And that turning it over to a power greater than ourselves? I had to admit I wasn't in charge of the universe. Do you admit that there is someone or something more powerful than you? For instance, Nature? The Universe? Gravity? The rotation of the Earth? Have you tried asking the wind not to blow?
Right now, the friend is more powerful than your suggestions. She's still doing what she wants. Always has, always will. Maybe more so now that she has to rebel against you.
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ly-alcoholics/
Look for this:
and the word, "Sticky" - they are locked at the top of the forum and are threads with a lot of good general information.And that turning it over to a power greater than ourselves? I had to admit I wasn't in charge of the universe. Do you admit that there is someone or something more powerful than you? For instance, Nature? The Universe? Gravity? The rotation of the Earth? Have you tried asking the wind not to blow?
Right now, the friend is more powerful than your suggestions. She's still doing what she wants. Always has, always will. Maybe more so now that she has to rebel against you.
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This...
"I don't care how worried or worn down I become. She's my friend. I'd gladly take her burden any and every day for the rest of my life. And I'm not belittling the burden of an addict. But I would much rather struggle than see her struggle. "
is the voice of codependency. It sounds like love, but destroying your life trying to fix hers just means two of you go down.
There's a book called "Codependent No More" that is recommended here quite often. It's been a while since I've read it, but I remember it being more secular in its approach. Maybe take a look?
"I don't care how worried or worn down I become. She's my friend. I'd gladly take her burden any and every day for the rest of my life. And I'm not belittling the burden of an addict. But I would much rather struggle than see her struggle. "
is the voice of codependency. It sounds like love, but destroying your life trying to fix hers just means two of you go down.
There's a book called "Codependent No More" that is recommended here quite often. It's been a while since I've read it, but I remember it being more secular in its approach. Maybe take a look?
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Since you are a scientist I recommend a book called addictive thinking by twerski. If you read it I think it will open your eyes. I agree with everyone who has posted here. You can't control or cure her.... Don't talk to brick walls either. If you read the book let me know.
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