Codependency?
 

Had a convo with my mom over Xmas that irritated me. In fairness, as I've explored my patterns in life, I've learned that much of my codependency was learned behavior by how she dealt with the world. So perhaps I'm judging too harshly. (I should say I adore my mom, just not in this area.)

Her story on how men and women communicate differently:
Husband (H) and Wife (W) driving in car, H driving:
W: Would you like some ice cream?
H: No, I don't think so. (Doesn't stop, goes home)
W is upset because she wanted ice cream.

My mom says that's a male/female communication difference. I said it's a wife who doesn't feel that it's okay to have her own want, so she's subtly trying to get her needs met by seeing if HE wants it, so she can have it too. By not speaking up for herself and later being mad she's trying to manipulate him into stopping for her--that's not a communication style, it's a behavior that's not okay.

My mom does that ALL THE TIME. Though she doesn't get mad if she can't have it, just quietly disappointed that her needs go unmet. I learned those patterns and I think it was disastrous in my relationship with abusive XAH.

Anyway, she disagreed with me and said it's mostly a difference in how men/women communicate. That men are direct and women aren't, and we need to learn to understand the differences.

I was just curious what my fellow SR members would think of her assertion.

Oh man - yep our home was the same way growing up. It was just not OK to vocalize what you want if it didn't make the group as a whole happy or better.

I agree with you completely. I have to add - I think my mom (and I in the past) would have the disappointment not because we didn't get what we want, but more so that our partner was not in tune with us enough to assume that we were asking them because that's what WE want. Crazy...all around.

And for your mom - I wonder why she wouldn't change her communication style if she knows it's not working, and sees it as a problem?

I couldn't even see that what I was doing was a problem for such a long time.

I relate to this A LOT, praying and firebolt. My mother exhibited very similar behaviors in some instances, and I reflect on times where I do the same thing. It honestly is a behavior that I resent in myself, and I am learning to just open up and say what I want.

Hmmm, she should meet my mom and that theory would be blown out of the water. My mom will tell you like it is and voice her opinion until you agree with her. If you don't agree or don't engage in the conversation with her she gets pissed and throws a temper tantrum like a three year old. Either way she is pissy about it....

I could only suggest to keep conversations short and sweet (if that is even possible) and do not engage in those conversations.

I don't think it's that black and white, IMO. There are at times definite differences in how men and women communicate, but good healthy communication isn't instinctive (at least not for me). It's something that has to be learned and practiced. Most men I know (including myself) are naturally "thick" in the communication dept. It's not that we don't care, it's that we don't pick up on the subtleties very well when we're not actively engaged and really listening.

I think it's basic passive-aggressive behavior. I do think women do it more than men, maybe because they aren't as socialized speak up about what they want. I think more often men feel it's OK to ask for (or even demand, which isn't cool--at least in the domestic setting) what they want--women tend to hint and then get upset when they aren't "heard."

That expression.....when we know better-we do better...comes to mind. WE have the opportunity to see how that kind of passive communication doesn't work and the ability to make changes in our own lives in expressing our wants.

Our mothers, many of them don't seem to have that ability to make the necessary changes in order for their feelings/wants to be addressed.

I often have told my mother that I have a lot of abilities but mind reading is not one of them and for her to expect me to know how she is feeling and what her wants are without expressing them is unfair. She has gotten much better and I have gotten much better at accepting she is the way she is. I have also learned to ask questions I would not normally ask, knowing she has difficulty in expressing her wants/needs.

Hit the nail on the head. :yup:

it's totally passive-aggressive.....and also plays the "read my mind and know what i really want" card. i wouldn't call it codependency, per se. i'd call it setting the other guy up for failure, which will then justify a full on snit. another resentment to add to the collection.

it also could be that the woman thinks it would be poor form to ASK for something calorie laden/fattening like ice cream, for fear of looking like a glutton or someone who doesn't care about their appearance?

It could be passive/aggressive, though I think women are more complicated in such they will drop clues about what they want (say they are interested in you) vs. being more straight forward the way men are.
Codependency is a different matter by enabling bad behavior.