I need some help today.
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I need some help today.
My AH's family had a talk/intervention type thing with him (just them, it wasn't organized by a professional or anything) about what they will and will not take from him going forward. I wasn't involved and wasn't really aware of it until the day of, I think because they didn't want to force me into anything I wasn't ready for, and to not stress me out.
And now I feel horrible. I've usually turned to his parents or had him call them for help so I could stay out of it and get on with my life. And now I feel like the burden is back on me or something. I just don't even know how to process everything.
My heart is in pieces for him, because I'm pretty much the only person he ever opens up to, and I can see how broken he is, inside and out. How do you detach from that?! He told me yesterday that he's been dealing with depression since he was a teenager, and has tried half of his life to come across as fine, and deal with it on his own, but every day he wakes up he says it's like staring into a black hole. He doesn't even know what it's like to look forward to anything. He hates that he feels that way, but aside from alcohol, he hasn't found a better alternative. He wants to, but nothing seems better.
I don't even know how to process it all. Any progress I had made at detaching is out the window. I mean, I can't allow it back in the house, but now I feel the need to be there to "help". Or something. I feel like he's completely alone, and there's just no way he'll ever get better now, and the guilt I will feel if something happens will be unbearable.
Words aren't even quite adequate to express what I'm feeling, but for some reason I'm feeling like I'm in a spiral of hopelessness and pain. For myself and for my AH, and I don't know where to turn, or what to do anymore. I see how much of a broken human being he is; how do you know what is the right thing to do?
ETA: I wish I could feel anger or something towards him, but on the rare occasions he opens up and I think I see the real him, I just see so much pain, so much brokenness that nobody understands or sees. And my heart can hardly take it. How do I even handle that?
And now I feel horrible. I've usually turned to his parents or had him call them for help so I could stay out of it and get on with my life. And now I feel like the burden is back on me or something. I just don't even know how to process everything.
My heart is in pieces for him, because I'm pretty much the only person he ever opens up to, and I can see how broken he is, inside and out. How do you detach from that?! He told me yesterday that he's been dealing with depression since he was a teenager, and has tried half of his life to come across as fine, and deal with it on his own, but every day he wakes up he says it's like staring into a black hole. He doesn't even know what it's like to look forward to anything. He hates that he feels that way, but aside from alcohol, he hasn't found a better alternative. He wants to, but nothing seems better.
I don't even know how to process it all. Any progress I had made at detaching is out the window. I mean, I can't allow it back in the house, but now I feel the need to be there to "help". Or something. I feel like he's completely alone, and there's just no way he'll ever get better now, and the guilt I will feel if something happens will be unbearable.
Words aren't even quite adequate to express what I'm feeling, but for some reason I'm feeling like I'm in a spiral of hopelessness and pain. For myself and for my AH, and I don't know where to turn, or what to do anymore. I see how much of a broken human being he is; how do you know what is the right thing to do?
ETA: I wish I could feel anger or something towards him, but on the rare occasions he opens up and I think I see the real him, I just see so much pain, so much brokenness that nobody understands or sees. And my heart can hardly take it. How do I even handle that?
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I cant help you with the detachment because thats my hardest struggle with all this too but I just wanted to say you arent alone in seeing them in their weakest states and feeling pity and empathy for them. How terrible it must be to feel like alcohol is your only escape from mental anguish. It breaks my heart every time I think about it. 
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There are resources available to help with mental illness and addiction. There are hotlines to call, shelters, etc.
You have a two-year-old and you're seven months pregnant...babying him along is more energy and time than you have to give. They have to come first. Always.
As for his family...it sounds like they gave him boundaries for how to stay in their lives, not just kicking him to the curb? So he has the option of respecting those boundaries, yes?
Yes, it's hard to look at someone you have loved who tells you they're broken and you're the only one who understands. If you were on your own, you would have less to risk in giving him yet more chances...but you aren't. You need your inner Mama Grizzly to surface...nothing and no one is more important than those two helpless innocents. Your ex is not helpless.
Sending you a hug.
You have a two-year-old and you're seven months pregnant...babying him along is more energy and time than you have to give. They have to come first. Always.
As for his family...it sounds like they gave him boundaries for how to stay in their lives, not just kicking him to the curb? So he has the option of respecting those boundaries, yes?
Yes, it's hard to look at someone you have loved who tells you they're broken and you're the only one who understands. If you were on your own, you would have less to risk in giving him yet more chances...but you aren't. You need your inner Mama Grizzly to surface...nothing and no one is more important than those two helpless innocents. Your ex is not helpless.
Sending you a hug.
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Originally Posted by Ariesagain 
There are resources available to help with mental illness and addiction. There are hotlines to call, shelters, etc.
You have a two-year-old and you're seven months pregnant...babying him along is more energy and time than you have to give. They have to come first. Always.
As for his family...it sounds like they gave him boundaries for how to stay in their lives, not just kicking him to the curb? So he has the option of respecting those boundaries, yes?
Yes, it's hard to look at someone you have loved who tells you they're broken and you're the only one who understands. If you were on your own, you would have less to risk in giving him yet more chances...but you aren't. You need your inner Mama Grizzly to surface...nothing and no one is more important than those two helpless innocents. Your ex is not helpless.
Sending you a hug.
You have a two-year-old and you're seven months pregnant...babying him along is more energy and time than you have to give. They have to come first. Always.
As for his family...it sounds like they gave him boundaries for how to stay in their lives, not just kicking him to the curb? So he has the option of respecting those boundaries, yes?
Yes, it's hard to look at someone you have loved who tells you they're broken and you're the only one who understands. If you were on your own, you would have less to risk in giving him yet more chances...but you aren't. You need your inner Mama Grizzly to surface...nothing and no one is more important than those two helpless innocents. Your ex is not helpless.
Sending you a hug.
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Surviving.....it sounds like, for many years he has never given any treatment for depression a chance. Treatment for depression doesn't work while one is still actively drinking...and drinking adds to depression within itself....
This may be the motivation for him to consider some ki nds of treatment...
The pain of drinking has to become more painful than the prospect of quitting, for most.....
You are doing the right thing for him, the kids, and for you....
How about doing some things to help you...like going to an alanon meeting. Or to your own counselor....and, of course, reading the stickies at the top of the main page...especially the one called "Classic Reading".....
Have you read "Co-dependent No More, yet? I think it will really resound with you....
This may be the motivation for him to consider some ki nds of treatment...
The pain of drinking has to become more painful than the prospect of quitting, for most.....
You are doing the right thing for him, the kids, and for you....
How about doing some things to help you...like going to an alanon meeting. Or to your own counselor....and, of course, reading the stickies at the top of the main page...especially the one called "Classic Reading".....
Have you read "Co-dependent No More, yet? I think it will really resound with you....
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Has he ever had professional help for his depression? That has been going on for years and he needs help for it. But it sounds like he has been self medicating with alcohol, which is a CNS depressant and just makes it worse. He is most likely in some sort of emotional pain and has also drank for the numbing effect. He's been dealing with this since a teenager. How "healthy" is his family of origin? Maybe not so healthy is his depression started so young and continued and/or got worse.
Anyhow: What many addicts do when they are down on their luck is turn to whomever they have left that can 'help' them. Maybe his family has said, "No more" and he feels cut off now. So, you are feeling like now "you're 'it'"? Tag, you're the only one left that can help them.....Well, that may or may not be true. He could be consciously or unconsciously putting a big ole guilt trip on you....this is an M.O. many addicts resort to when their option are running out.
I don't want to come across as being pessimistic about all this. But, chances are there is help out there for him besides you.He's gonna have to reach out and open himself up to the possibilities. At all costs this should not be sucking everything out of you. That's just not right....But they tend to do this to their loved ones because your heart strings are attached. Like I say, I don't know if it's a deliberate ploy of his or not or he just feels like he has not other options right now. He's going to have to somehow start buying into the notions that he DOES have options, better ones than he has been using....
Anyhow: What many addicts do when they are down on their luck is turn to whomever they have left that can 'help' them. Maybe his family has said, "No more" and he feels cut off now. So, you are feeling like now "you're 'it'"? Tag, you're the only one left that can help them.....Well, that may or may not be true. He could be consciously or unconsciously putting a big ole guilt trip on you....this is an M.O. many addicts resort to when their option are running out.
I don't want to come across as being pessimistic about all this. But, chances are there is help out there for him besides you.He's gonna have to reach out and open himself up to the possibilities. At all costs this should not be sucking everything out of you. That's just not right....But they tend to do this to their loved ones because your heart strings are attached. Like I say, I don't know if it's a deliberate ploy of his or not or he just feels like he has not other options right now. He's going to have to somehow start buying into the notions that he DOES have options, better ones than he has been using....
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Originally Posted by Surviving2016
My heart is in pieces for him, because I'm pretty much the only person he ever opens up to, and I can see how broken he is, inside and out. How do you detach from that?! He told me yesterday that he's been dealing with depression since he was a teenager, and has tried half of his life to come across as fine, and deal with it on his own, but every day he wakes up he says it's like staring into a black hole. He doesn't even know what it's like to look forward to anything. He hates that he feels that way, but aside from alcohol, he hasn't found a better alternative. He wants to, but nothing seems better.
The problem is that he hasn't REALLY been trying to deal with it. He's been trying NOT to. It took me two decades and years of begging my own XAH to go to counseling to finally see that he wasn't interested in figuring things out. Too much work. In fact, he always said that if they got inside his head, he'd end up a babbling baby who may never get back up. I never understood why you wouldn't want to quiet that and wake up one day on the other side.
I think he's pulling your strings. I'd think hard about what his family is doing and consider that approach yourself. I wouldn't take on any additional burden due to them stepping back. It's his time to act.
What does a man look like?
A man stands up for his family.
A man fights to be the best he can be for his wife and kids.
A man goes to the end of the earth to provide security, love and protection for those he loves.
And a man would go to counseling and figure out his $hit to make that happen.
I'm sorry for the bluntness, but what is he giving YOU in this relationship? From what I can tell, you're pretty amazing. He needs to step up. You feeling for him and pitying him won't save him from a lifetime of this misery. Only he can do that.
I say this with love as someone who tried for 18 years.
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My heart is in pieces for him, because I'm pretty much the only person he ever opens up to, and I can see how broken he is, inside and out. How do you detach from that?! He told me yesterday that he's been dealing with depression since he was a teenager, and has tried half of his life to come across as fine, and deal with it on his own, but every day he wakes up he says it's like staring into a black hole. He doesn't even know what it's like to look forward to anything. He hates that he feels that way, but aside from alcohol, he hasn't found a better alternative. He wants to, but nothing seems better.
He stated he tried alternative help for his issues, what were his alternatives? Since he's voiced his issues to you, what actions has he taken towards addressing them?
His family is doing the most loving and hardest thing possible for him by setting boundaries and hopefully sticking to them.
Do you think that the fact you were not included in their sit down/intervention is the cause of you feeling horrible because you see yourself as the only one who understands him?
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Originally Posted by Surviving2016
My heart is in pieces for him, because I'm pretty much the only person he ever opens up to, and I can see how broken he is, inside and out. How do you detach from that?! He told me yesterday that he's been dealing with depression since he was a teenager, and has tried half of his life to come across as fine, and deal with it on his own, but every day he wakes up he says it's like staring into a black hole. He doesn't even know what it's like to look forward to anything. He hates that he feels that way, but aside from alcohol, he hasn't found a better alternative. He wants to, but nothing seems better.
It's only when he truly understands that no-one's going to rescue him except himself that he has a chance. There are resources out there if he looks for them. As someone who has been an active A, and with depression, I've learned many ways to soothe myself without alcohol.
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Surviving.....I echo what others have said about the idea that "you are the only one that he opens up to and can help him"......
You are, actually, the least qualified to help him...(protection is not helping, in this situation). I do see that placing boundaries..by your self and his family (yea) is the best way of getting out of his way...The rest will be up to him....
He is unlikely to get or accept the kind of help that he needs unless he "has" to...
You are, actually, the least qualified to help him...(protection is not helping, in this situation). I do see that placing boundaries..by your self and his family (yea) is the best way of getting out of his way...The rest will be up to him....
He is unlikely to get or accept the kind of help that he needs unless he "has" to...
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I was thinking about your post about being hormonal...I really believe that codependency, especially in women, is partly the nurturing instinct gone awry. As advanced alcoholism worsens, the drinker becomes more and more child-like in affect and in actions. They even lie the way little kids do...badly. And then there's the clinging to a bottle...
My theory is that as nurturers, we see that inner child in distress and slowly lower all expectations of them to behave as what they are...adults with a big problem only they can address. We take on more and more...I didn't live with my ex, thank goodness, but I see so many threads here where the one adult is basically a single parent caring for another "child," in the alcoholic, while that alcoholic does less and less in terms of adult responsibilities.
Your pregnancy is preparing you for nurturing your new baby, so you have even more of an urge to nurture right now. So maybe recognizing that might help you avoid taking on your third "child" to parent, in your husband?
Sending you a hug.
My theory is that as nurturers, we see that inner child in distress and slowly lower all expectations of them to behave as what they are...adults with a big problem only they can address. We take on more and more...I didn't live with my ex, thank goodness, but I see so many threads here where the one adult is basically a single parent caring for another "child," in the alcoholic, while that alcoholic does less and less in terms of adult responsibilities.
Your pregnancy is preparing you for nurturing your new baby, so you have even more of an urge to nurture right now. So maybe recognizing that might help you avoid taking on your third "child" to parent, in your husband?
Sending you a hug.
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Ugh, well what do you know. He's back to drinking again, and I'm pretty upset at myself for getting sucked in so emotionally again. Why can't I always think as clearly as I am now?!
I think I need to sit down with his family and see what boundaries they came up with, and make sure we're all on the same page, or at least I meet them at their level. He's not helpless, the motivation just isn't strong enough yet to seek better alternatives.
I should mention he has tried depression medication (obviously doesn't work while drinking), seeing several therapists, 6 week inpatient rehab, and currently in a 4 week program linked to his DUI. So I suppose he's kind of tried? Which is why I think I keep giving him chances. But I think he assumes that stuff will fix his drinking, and the drinking needs to go first.
My current dilemma, as angry as I am again today, is that I still am afraid to file for divorce because I can't stand the thought of my kids getting to be with him alone. I would do it in a heartbeat if I knew I'd be guaranteed full custody, and he only gets supervised visits. But from what I've read on here and heard elsewhere, it sounds like that doesn't happen as easily as one would think. I want them to have a good relationship with their dad, and I will never talk bad about him or anything, but I need them protected. He's out of the house now, and doesn't see our daughter unless we're together and it's always on my terms. So that works. But how can I send a clear message I won't put up with this? Are there other boundaries I can commit to without divorce, especially since he's out of the house?
I think I need to sit down with his family and see what boundaries they came up with, and make sure we're all on the same page, or at least I meet them at their level. He's not helpless, the motivation just isn't strong enough yet to seek better alternatives.
I should mention he has tried depression medication (obviously doesn't work while drinking), seeing several therapists, 6 week inpatient rehab, and currently in a 4 week program linked to his DUI. So I suppose he's kind of tried? Which is why I think I keep giving him chances. But I think he assumes that stuff will fix his drinking, and the drinking needs to go first.
My current dilemma, as angry as I am again today, is that I still am afraid to file for divorce because I can't stand the thought of my kids getting to be with him alone. I would do it in a heartbeat if I knew I'd be guaranteed full custody, and he only gets supervised visits. But from what I've read on here and heard elsewhere, it sounds like that doesn't happen as easily as one would think. I want them to have a good relationship with their dad, and I will never talk bad about him or anything, but I need them protected. He's out of the house now, and doesn't see our daughter unless we're together and it's always on my terms. So that works. But how can I send a clear message I won't put up with this? Are there other boundaries I can commit to without divorce, especially since he's out of the house?
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Surviving......I suggest that you look over a website called Divorce Advice, Laws, and Information from WomansDivorce.com. It is educational, in nature....and is arranged by states. While it is not intended to s ubstitute for your own lawyer, it gives information on just about every area of divorce.
You still need to see a lawyer...but, this website can help you to know what questions to ask as well as a resource directory on how to find the right kind of lawyer.
I strongly encourage you to learn all you can. The more you know and the more you understand your rights..the more confident you will feel.
Knowledge is power....
Surviving...just click on the website, above....
You still need to see a lawyer...but, this website can help you to know what questions to ask as well as a resource directory on how to find the right kind of lawyer.
I strongly encourage you to learn all you can. The more you know and the more you understand your rights..the more confident you will feel.
Knowledge is power....
Surviving...just click on the website, above....
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It all comes down to documentation and what you can prove regarding his drinking and how that impacts his ability to be an involved parent. Right now he’s out of the house but what documentation do you have showing that? What documentation do you have that has an agreement between he and you regarding visitation and what impact him being intoxicated might have on that? If he shows up drunk to visit with the children then the visit is over, etc.?
As they say in court it’s not what you know it’s what you can prove. The quicker you get the proper documentation established the better your case for at the best supervised visits.
As they say in court it’s not what you know it’s what you can prove. The quicker you get the proper documentation established the better your case for at the best supervised visits.
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atalose is so right-on about this ^^^^^!
Documentation is everything....
There are others, here , who can be of enormous help in guiding you as to what to look for and what to document---don't hesitate to ask them for it....
Documentation is everything....
There are others, here , who can be of enormous help in guiding you as to what to look for and what to document---don't hesitate to ask them for it....
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I've been documenting his drinking since about March of this year (I have all the documents of his ER visit too), and all our bank statement records coincide with his drinking binges, and will show the alcohol purchases. I can't exactly "prove" they are for alcohol, but with some investigative power, it'd be clear that they are for alcohol. All it would take would be for the receipt to be provided, or cameras showing the purchase, since I have all the credit card information.
I also know when he doesn't go into work, through asking a work friend, but that could also be proved by looking back at the work calendar, because he has to mark that he's "working from home". And I'm sure his boss has all those records too. I also always text someone when I suspect he's drinking, so I have witnesses.
I have met with a lawyer a couple of times, so I think I'm pretty aware of the process and everything. She made it seem like I'd have a pretty easy case, so I was pretty confident until I started reading and hearing more from people on here or in my area that have gone through a divorce and still have SO many issues despite having deadbeat spouses.
Child support isn't even on my radar because I'm pretty certain he'll lose his job anyway. I do think I can squeak by working full time, although I'm not so sure about health insurance since he carries it (my work does not offer it). But I think those are things I can work out, the main thing is that I can keep our house on my salary alone. We are debt free otherwise, thank goodness.
I also know when he doesn't go into work, through asking a work friend, but that could also be proved by looking back at the work calendar, because he has to mark that he's "working from home". And I'm sure his boss has all those records too. I also always text someone when I suspect he's drinking, so I have witnesses.
I have met with a lawyer a couple of times, so I think I'm pretty aware of the process and everything. She made it seem like I'd have a pretty easy case, so I was pretty confident until I started reading and hearing more from people on here or in my area that have gone through a divorce and still have SO many issues despite having deadbeat spouses.
Child support isn't even on my radar because I'm pretty certain he'll lose his job anyway. I do think I can squeak by working full time, although I'm not so sure about health insurance since he carries it (my work does not offer it). But I think those are things I can work out, the main thing is that I can keep our house on my salary alone. We are debt free otherwise, thank goodness.
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It’s not as easy as most think. Logic would suggest that an adult who is passed out drunk or constantly intoxicated should not be in charge of children but logic and the courts don’t always go hand in hand.
Some of that documentation you have been keeping may be a benefit and some not so much. And it depends on the judge, you may get one that agrees with you and insists on him having supervised visits and prove he is working on his alcoholism or you could get one that favors his side and allows him access that you feel is endangering the children. Most courts wish you both reach an agreement to a parenting plan, child support, etc so that the court is not being forced to make those decisions. Maybe talk with a lawyer and see what legal papers in your state may be needed for a legal separation/divorce and your protection financially and then talk with him regarding those issues and see where he is at and how he feels. This will give you a gage on what may lie ahead of you.
Some of that documentation you have been keeping may be a benefit and some not so much. And it depends on the judge, you may get one that agrees with you and insists on him having supervised visits and prove he is working on his alcoholism or you could get one that favors his side and allows him access that you feel is endangering the children. Most courts wish you both reach an agreement to a parenting plan, child support, etc so that the court is not being forced to make those decisions. Maybe talk with a lawyer and see what legal papers in your state may be needed for a legal separation/divorce and your protection financially and then talk with him regarding those issues and see where he is at and how he feels. This will give you a gage on what may lie ahead of you.
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