Ap052183

My ex told me twice that he thought about jumping off his high rise. Both times he followed it with physical needs for intimacy or a hug. Basically he was manipulating me to feel sorry for him. I hugged him quite frequently. I can't spend my days wrapped around you dude. When we broke up I expressed how worried I was and I told him I wished he would get help for his suicidal thoughts. His response was (pouting like a child) "well if you ever asked you'd know that I was feeling better lately." Hmm, how convenient.

Maudcat

Smarie, I am not an expert about alcoholic behavior. All I have is experience with alcoholism in the family. (I'm an alcoholic too, but, wonder of wonders, I'm not talking about me this time.) my sib is an active alcoholic, and he will say anything, promise anything, maybe even cut off a digit if asked to, so that he can stay in his safe drinking haven , my mother's house. I am not saying that you shouldn't take self-harm threats seriously. I am saying that, in my opinion, an alcoholic will say or do anything to avoid being booted, save the thing we all seek: stop drinking. And one more thing: they survive the boot. I would be surprised if he actually does end up "on the street", when you do evict him. Peace.

Nata1980

While I see the difference, for the loved ones it can be hard to differentiate. Or, what if they assume that it is manipulation, and it is a real thing? I.e. "What do you want me to do - slit my wrists" when presented with the boundary/request to alter behaviour

Or

"I am just going to go slit my wrists because you hate me" when, again, presented with the boundary.

This time those were manipulative "I want to die" musings, but how does one know when they are not?

I am really tempted to call 911 next time any mentioning of suicide occurs.....

LexieCat

I guess the way I look at it is this. I can't imagine any first responder taking someone in who says, "I wish I were dead," or "I want to die." It would sort of be like calling the police every time someone says, "I could just KILL so-and-so."

I'm not suggesting anyone should completely ignore statements like "I wish I were dead," but I, personally, would not call 911 unless there were other indications that someone might be imminently suicidal.

Just explaining my reasoning--people have to make their own decisions.

Nata1980

Lexie - I get it, it is just stressful to me - imagine he does do something after what I perceived as just alcoholic "I want to die" musings and then it is on me...

LexieCat

No, it's NEVER "on you." You can ASSUME that burden, but it's never your responsibility to keep someone else alive (unless you put him in danger to begin with, which isn't what we are talking about here).

Partners of alcoholics (or someone who harms himself in other ways) take on way too much guilt and responsibility for what happens to that person. I think we each have to decide, in good faith, when something warrants calling for outside help. It's always possible we will be wrong. That doesn't mean it's our "fault."

AnvilheadII

no it is not ON YOU. we are not responsible for what others choose to do with their lives. we cannot prevent every act of self-harm, nor can we be on alert 24/7 just in case someone might do something.

2Frazzled

Hello... I agree with both Danylion and Lexicat.....

1- If the person in question is in immediate danger of harming (expressing this to you) themselves and you know they have the means and are in a position to follow through.... call everytime.

2- If the person has never attempted before it may be just alcoholic brain talking.... however it's still very serious for the person to get medical attention just as alcoholism is progressive so can suicidal thoughts... especially if this person has an underlying mental illness. Never easy to make that judgement call especially when your under distress and emotionally caught up with the person. Is it a cry for help or a genuine threat? We seem to have no control over whether or not someone seeks treatment for alcoholism and the same goes for threats of suicide (mentally ill) unfortunately its only when they do act on the threat that we can sort of control the situation by calling the police or ambulance ....ugh so awful to be in a position like this... so sorry you are in hs situation.

I can tell you from my experience in my life...
Three different people in my life have struggled with and are struggling with suicidal thoughts and actions.
ALL have substance abuse history and underlying mental health issues. Its impossible to treat the mental illness with the active substantace abuse. ..It just goes spiraling around until the person expresses that death would be better than this existance. Because life becomes unmanageable and personal connections become strained if not broken.
My sister followed through with her threats... she abused alcohol, pot and prescription drugs. She attempted suicide many times... recovered many times...relapsed many times... as long as the substance abuse continued she could not effectively treat her mental illness. She lost her battle and I can tell you... once a person is determined to end their life... they will. Someone with multiple attempts is the most vulnerable for a decision like this 😢
I have a friend with very much the same story...she is still with us but struggles a great deal. She personally told me that when she self harms there is absolutely no one that can talk her out of it. (They need professional medical attention and police intervention)... you really need to back away from there... refer them to the help they so dezperately need but do not get caught up in their spiral... you will end up going down with them... sounds awful but true...
The only people we can save is ourselves...
The third person is my xab... he is still in the picture.... as friends (that is not an easy accomplishment and I struggle with the inconsistencies of the friendship just as i did when we were together)- but I'm practicing detachment... and have having no expectations helps...lol...
He is still an active alcoholic and does and says exactly what your ab does... exactly! He keeps saying he is dead inside and does not care if he wakes up in the morning.... I dont call 911 for that... what I have done was schedule an appointment with his doctor and reveal all... he doesnt tell the truth about his drinking nor his mental state.. anyway I love him enough to do that but i know not to get involved with trying to convince him to seek help...just gently suggesting he see his Dr... (who now has a clearer picture and can make do with the info i have given) .... not a way of controling him but trying to help from the sidelines....
Anyway this is very long winded...
Bottom line is... keep your hands off the addict and step back ... if at all possible. If its not immediate family you dont have to go down this road with them... you really do need to protect yourself.
The grief from suicide is excruciating... and believe me it is NEVER your fault.

Hang in there... xx

LexieCat

I'm so sorry about the loss of your sister, Frazzled, and for the struggles your friend and your b/f are going through. FWIW, I think you have a very sane and balanced approach. It's always good to encourage someone deeply depressed to continue to reach out for help. Sometimes it eventually gets through.

Hugs,

2Frazzled

Hi Lexi... and thank you. Xx

Yes the best we can do to help another in this situation is to keep encouraging they get medical support in a loving and caring way whilst trying to ensure our own mental health remains in tact..

Bekindalways

I wish this was a cleaner easier thing for you Smarie but we codies tend towards messiness.

Hope to hear that you have managed to keep him out of your apartment and life.

Let us know how it goes.

SoloMio

One of my favorite responses to an A's announcement of impending death was Sharon Osbourne's, and I always keep it in mind when I'm getting sucked in by AH crying and proclaiming that he's going to die. He doesn't threaten suicide--he just gives me veiled clues that he doesn't feel well, his final wishes are on his computer, here's his bank information; he had hoped to clean his office, but I should have our son do it... blah blah blah all coming out amidst sobs.

At that point, I try to invoke the Sharon Osbourne in me:

"Back during Ozzy Osbourne‘s drug-taking heyday, he thought he was going to die. His wife Sharon‘s response? 'Well, die quietly – I’ve got a meeting at 9 o’clock.'

"According to Ozzy, his wife’s tough-love approach to his problems and addictions helped him make it through those dark days. “It was about 4AM, I was coming off some s— that I’d been taking, and I wanted someone to love me back to life,” he told Classic Rock magazine. “I go, ‘Sharon, I think I’m dying.'”
Her casual reply to the statement, Ozzy said, was pretty much par for the course in the Osbourne household."