alanonfamilymbr

Hello, we are new to all of this. I have a question about the amends process. Recently, we were told by our brother that he was making amends and apologized to via text. We aren't sure how to respond as we are confused and hurt that we all received the same mass apology text... he is our brother whom we had been close to before this nightmare began. One of us wrote a letter back to him, but we were told by another family member who has been counseling us and has been through alanon not to give it to him as that will cause him to drink so it was not sent. We do not want him to step back - just wondering if anyone else has received this sort of amends and how they handled it? Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Nata1980

I have not received amends via text (or any, for that matter), my understanding that response is not always required - amends are for the addict as much as for the loved ones. IMO - mass text is a bit half-a@@, but this is typical of addicts...don't put any of your personal worth in it - he is an addict, that's what they do

And, if he wants to drink he will drink, receiving "unpleasant" letters does not make someone drink.

Be gentle to yourself

dandylion

alanonfamilymember....I can share with you that I don't know very much about the rules of amend making. It causes me confusion when I try to think too much about it....
I have posted about this in the distant past...and, became even more confused, trying to understand it.....
What I do know is that we who have suffered and been on the receiving end of the hurt and/or abuse of an alcoholic family member....we (at least I) crave to hear that they are truly sorry that they have hurt us...that they really loved us, and that they were acting out of their disease and not lack of caring about us.....
We want so badly to believe that we can trust them, again.....and that the broken bonds between us can be healed......Basically, that love will prevail over hatred.....

The thing that I have been told, the most, by the people who are "in the know" about the rules of amend making is that....."The amend is for the alcoholic,,and, not for the person that is receiving the amend".....
That is what I have never been able to wrap my head, completely, around......

I am just sharing this with you. so, don't let my personal confusion throw you off track......
With the help of others...maybe you can figure this out....

tomsteve

welcome,alanonfamilymbr!
i am going to assume your brother is working either the program of aa or na. at least i hope he is attempting it as how you describe his amends is rather.....ummmm....i dont know how to put it softly, so ill just say it: very screwed up and,imo, reads like he is rushing it and doing it the easier,softer way. not saying he isnt sincere, but just no understanding of what amends are and how they should be done- face to face when possible. sending a mass text to multiple people? that isnt taking a look at each individual relationship as each one will have different faults/character defects/shortcomings involved.

imo, dont respond. but,no, it will not cause him to drink.
only HE can cause him to drink. only HE would give himself permission to drink. absolutely NO ONE will bend his elbow.
but it would be a good excuse to drink.

Kissedbyfire

The text might not be so much of an apology (it's hard to take it that way over text), but might just be an olive branch.
Is the family member attending al anon who is coaching everyone making the suggestion that you or anyone else try the meetings?
From what I've gathered and from the few meetings I've attended- Al anon does not teach you the "how to's" of stopping your loved ones drinking.
Responding isn't a cause for his drinking or stopping his drinking. Being in a codependent state of mind I could argue that not responding might cause him to drink as he might think no one is there for him but that isn't right either. But that's totally incorrect too. His drinking is his choice- with or without making amends.
My AH is in his early stages of recovery and I haven't been to enough al anon meetings to give you what I would think is the best solution to your question, but I know many people here might be able to.
It might be worth going to an al anon meeting yourself.
(Not to be critical or judgmental) It sounds like the family member who is coaching everyone is still in the mindset of trying to control your brother's drinking, or control how you guys interact with him- and I really don't think that's what al anon is about.
Trying the meetings yourself to educate and help yourself with these decisions and any future relationship you have with your brother or in life in general could be very rewarding to you.

alanonfamilymbr

Thank you so much Nata1980! That is great advice and we really do need to stop putting any of our personal worth in as you said. I'm so happy we found this group before we attended our first Alanon meeting. Just for a little anxiety relief.

Bird615

I agree with tomsteve's take on this.

The person seems to not have a very good understanding of making amends as outlined in the 12 steps. They should preferably be face-to-face whenever possible and personal to each situation. If I couldn't do it face to face, then a phone call or a personal letter would be my next option.

I would also do more than just say "sorry". I would discuss my part in the situation, where I went wrong, and then how I planned to do better in the future. After that, it would be out of my hands; if I made the amend sincerely and honestly to the best of my ability, then it wasn't my business what the other person did with it. I had done what I could to clean up my part in it.

While being kind is a good thing, walking on eggshells around a person in recovery is good for no one. Any reason I drank again would just be an excuse and if I wanted to drink, I could make an excuse from just about anything.

alanonfamilymbr

Thank you so much for sharing with us dandylion! This does not throw us off track...it is a very complex situation and I know I appreciate someone sharing my own feelings. It sounds like i need to appreciate that the amends is more for them than anything in reading your response. I do want him to succeed so I am going to just trust we will all get through this! Thank you!!

alanonfamilymbr

Madbird, that is a very good point. I know that is what the majority of us feel, but this is all so new to us that we weren't sure really what to do. We do plan on going to several alanon meetings to help us understand. I know some people in my family feel they would like to respond to him. Thank you so much. Very valid points.

alanonfamilymbr

Thanks kissedbyfire! We do plan on going to several alanon meetings. We just moved across the country but it is near the top of our list. So the family member helping us is pretty mature in her own sobriety. I think she recognizes that our brother is not mature enough and hinted that he shouldn't be doing those steps yet because he's just not ready to. But again, she obviously having experience from only 1 side of the coin. I think your suggestion of going to the meetings is terrific. We will definitely be doing that. Thank you!

August252015

Agree with most of this- though the "half-a**" part might be a little strong; it is definitely applying intent to him that might not be the case. We never know another's motives; this is something that we (the alcoholics) have to learn and accept.

Amends "can" (per the BB) be made in various forms. They certainly didn't have text or email or skype or whatever when it was written - IMO there are different ways appropriate to different people to whom we need to make amends. The BB also says that active amends are sometimes not appropriate- the emotions of the recipients of our amends, and whether it is selfish or caring of us to make them or not- from the recipient's (s') perspective is key. Consider for a moment that he did have good intentions and this was the best he could do. As my understanding goes, making amends is not a "perfect" process nor is there an exact formula for doing it.

Ditto ditto ditto the comment that nothing you can do will "make" him drink. That is ALWAYS the alcoholic's choice- no matter what we say, justify, or excuse.

I completed my Step 4 and 5 about 6 wks ago - I am nearing 7 mo sober- and have done different amends differently; I actually did some before I completed these steps, ex being apologizing to a friend on whom I'd developed the habit of bailing or being late for plans, and just being inconsiderate, as I shared with her The Darkness that was my life. A very important amends, I prayed about how to do - ultimately, I sent an email saying I would be calling and to please not answer; I told him that I would be emailing him the written version of what I needed to say and that it was important, and asked that he let me speak it to his voice mail.

With my FAMILY....I am mostly making living amends and there are a lot, so they come up in various conversations and I address as we go.

This is a huge and complicated topic, IMO, and one that is very emotional, for all parties.

Bottom line- you (your family) need to work on you, each individually. He needs to work on him. Are you reading the BB? There is a lot of stuff in there about the family that might be very helpful, if you have not been learning or studying it.

Good luck.

alanonfamilymbr

Thank you tomsteve! Yes, he is going through aa. He doesn't have a mentor so he is just going through the steps on his own. He called a couple of our distant relatives and I think that's why some of our brothers and sisters are upset or confused. Thank you for the reassurance that we won't cause him to drink if the letter is sent. Im excited to show them these responses!

Bird615

If they are in a 12-step program and have a good sponsor, this may have been an interim thing on their part, although it's jumping the gun. The steps are in order for a reason. Maybe more appropriate amends will come in time.

Responding at this point may not be necessary, maybe wait and see if that's the case and get some more information and guidance from AlAnon in the meantime.

August252015

To add to madbird's point about jumping the gun....amends need to be sincere, heartfelt and....done after Step 4. They are actually step 9, then 10 as far as ongoing; step 4 and 5 are the alcoholic honestly admitting their wrongs, resentments, fears etc, then admitting them to God and another person. It does not sound like he is that far into AA, nor are you and your family very far into AlAnon, so my gentle suggestion would be to "keep coming back" to your meetings, respectively, and learn. Recovery for the alcoholic and loved ones is a continuous and in depth process, when done right and with surrender (to the alcoholism) and there is MUCH to be learned and then lived.

You obviously care about him, and are trying to understand a family-wide disease, as addiction is. Do take care of yourself, and keep trying as you can and want to do so. There are many people in the program who will help and teach you, in many ways from listening to them in meetings to active sponsorship and discussion.

Hangnbyathread

At least you got Amends.

The closest I ever got from my ex was. Ex to me: "Please tell me all the things I did to you that caused you to have bad feelings towards me" Me to her. Umm...Did you want mew to list them in writing or just tell you? Her to me: "Either way". Me to her: "OK This may take awhile". Her to me. "OK well just know that when you're done with them, I'm sorry for all of it."

So I spent days listing them all and wrote them down and presented them to her. It was pages long. It took me like a week.

I gave them to her. "Whats this?" she asked. "That is the list of things you asked me to do". Without even reading them she responded, "Oh I thought I told you I already said I was sorry for them. Why are you you dragging this up again?".

**Shaking head**. They are truly sick people.

Refiner

Your family member who said this is misinformed. TRUE recovery means the A is accountable and not still using excuses to drink (or make half assed amends).

tomsteve

ya know, even on this side of the fence i had a hard time understanding that,too. im not sure if i can explain it how it was explained to me so i understood:
yes, i was clearing off my side of the street. but that didnt mean i didnt give a crap about the people i made amends to. i felt like a POS for doing what i did to others. THAT had to be a motivating factor for making amends.
if i was just doing it with an attitude of," this is all about me so i have to tell ya what i did, what i should have done, and how ive changed and really dont care if the other person likes it or not because its all about MMMMEEEEEEE!!!"
i was screwed- i didnt do the 1st 8 steps properly and honestly,sincerely see my part in it.

i had to honestly and sincerely have to see the damage i caused- i had to put myself in their shoes.
HOWEVER
as im sure you know, actions speak louder than words. i had living amends to make,too

LexieCat

Well, that's pretty much the kind of goofy thing you'd expect from an alcoholic who has only heard the word "amends" in the Steps but hasn't read the Big Book or worked with a sponsor.

Not a big deal. Respond or ignore, either one is fine. You send out a mass text-message apology to a bunch of people, you shouldn't have great expectations about how they'll respond to it.

If he stays sober, and sticks with his program, he'll eventually realize what a ludicrous thing he did (I sometimes hear people share at meetings about the dumb stuff they did when they were just getting sober).

Just to be clear, and amends is a sincere ATTEMPT to make right wrongs that were done. Some can never be made right. Some recipients won't even listen. If that happens, the amends-maker has still done what s/he needed to do. And, being human beings, some amends will be done more skillfully than others. As long as the intent is sincere, and the amends-maker has done his/her best to cause no further harm, the amends is good, as far as the Step is concerned. The person making the amends cannot control the unwillingness of someone else to accept it. It's not their job to keep trying this or that in an attempt to satisfy someone still holding a resentment. You do your best, and let go of the outcome.

dandylion

tomsteve....I have tried so hard to understand this....
tell me this----am I right or wrong that sincerity is supposed to be at the HEART of the one making the amends? In my l ittle mind...I keep thinking that it should be...?
In my little mind...I keep thinking that none of it means anything if there is not a deep sincerity and understanding of the harm they have done to the victim....

Maudcat

Hi, Alanon. Agreeing with other posters that he seems to be rushing the steps a bit, doesn't have a sponsor to guide him through it, and is trying to do the right thing as he sees it. The good thing about the steps is that we can revisit them as much as we want as we progress in our recovery. Mayebe there will be more to follow from him down the road. The making amends step can be hard, as you are thinking about past bad behavior and your part in someone's hurt. Doesn't sound like he is there yet, but perhaps in time he will be. Peace.