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Old 08-16-2016, 06:04 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Maybe I need to push my attorney on this one. I keep reading things like this quote:

"Even drug use plays no part in allocating parental responsibility determination unless it impacts the children. It is well established that a parent's use of drugs is relevant to the issue of Parental responsibility only if the parent's conduct can be shown to affect his mental or physical health and his relationship with the child."

And it feels like it tracks with what my attorney is saying, that we have to prove the twins are in "clear and immediate danger."

I guess at this point I'm hoping we have things that can be verified by someone who is not me:

My son getting a gash on his head and AXH saying he took him to the ER - but no record anywhere of a visit to same or to our doctor

Missed school (when he didn't want to risk a DUI)

And I suppose expert testimony that would prove that the children would likely be impacted by life with an alcoholic.

Anyway, I haven't yet spoken to the associate who reviewed my entire written record. I'll be interested to hear if all of what I've recorded would be enough to get the court ordered monitoring in place.
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Old 08-16-2016, 06:09 PM
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You aren't pushing to cut him off from parenting time, you are just trying to put safeguards in place so the children WON'T be in imminent danger--by the time the danger is imminent, it's likely to be too late. The fact that he is drinking while they are in his care makes the risk unacceptably high that they will be endangered. Yes, things like an undocumented "visit" to the ER, missed school days, are very significant in that regard.
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Old 08-16-2016, 06:17 PM
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i would push HARD to restrict visitation unless and until he can prove he is sober. he has not done so. on multiple occasions. ALL children are in danger if left in the care of a drunk. or an impaired addict. if you had hired a babysitter and came home to find this babysitter passed OUT on the couch while your precious children are left unattended.....what would you do?

HE is no different, regardless of his tag of "father" - fathers should not keep their children home because they are too drunk or too hungover to get their children to SCHOOL.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:01 PM
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Just spoke with my attorney and asked him to begin drafting a motion to request court-ordered monitoring.

He asked, "Don't you want to see how he reacts to your email before you start to spend $$ on legal work?"

And I said, "Nope. Whether or not I need it this time, we'll need something, at some point, regardless. He may cave to my ask, but it won't be for long, and when he abandons it again, we'll have something ready to go."

He thought that the thing that would work against us is the fact that he has a therapist who has gone on record regarding the strength of his recovery. I am hopeful that any judge would question that to be true given four missed SoberLink tests in a row just a month ago.

The other thing he thought might be an issue is that the JPA requires us to work through a mediator. But even if they invoke that, I would be perfectly willing to work with our mediator on this issue. Her focus is ALL about the children, practically to the exclusion of everything else - and I found her to be exceedingly wise and reasonable when we worked with her on the parenting agreement.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:05 PM
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Lawyers don't always know best. It pays to listen to, and carefully consider, their advice, but on something like this, you know the pattern of behavior the best.

I think it's a smart move, personally. Worst case, you paid for some legal work you didn't need to. This isn't the time to focus on nickels and dimes, if you can afford not to. Besides, if you win, there may be a chance the court can order him to pay your legal fees (in some jurisdictions that would be true).
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
Lawyers don't always know best. It pays to listen to, and carefully consider, their advice, but on something like this, you know the pattern of behavior the best.
This was a new associate I spoke with because my attorney made partner. The partner has been in and out of this with me for years, and he's been amazing about not wanting to rack up legal fees - but he's the one who finally said, "Let's just get this drafted for you - we do better work when we aren't crashing at the last minute." After so much back and forth, I knew he was right.

This is money I will not regret spending.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:20 PM
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You've been divorced 5 years, you're now remarried, and you still have to PAY HIM 45% of your income because he chooses to be a useless drunk? Please dear God I hope I read that wrong!!
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:21 PM
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Glad he was rewarded for his great client services with a partnership! The associate will do the grunt work, no doubt, and you will be billed at that person's rate, but great that the partner gave his input.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Refiner View Post
You've been divorced 5 years, you're now remarried, and you still have to PAY HIM 45% of your income because he chooses to be a useless drunk? Please dear God I hope I read that wrong!!
I can't speak to CPtA's situation, but I paid my XH alimony for five years after an 11-year marriage. He probably would have gotten 3.5 years if we'd gone to trial in our jurisdiction (and less $ per month), but I just wanted it done so I settled. And child support will be ongoing, absent a change in the custody arrangement. If a financial settlement was signed, everybody will continue to abide by that financial settlement unless there is a significant change in circumstances.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:39 PM
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Yup, I paid child support until my kids were out of college. (Boys lived with the ex in another state). It can get expensive, even without alimony.
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Old 08-17-2016, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Refiner View Post
You've been divorced 5 years, you're now remarried, and you still have to PAY HIM 45% of your income because he chooses to be a useless drunk? Please dear God I hope I read that wrong!!
That's almost right. I started the divorce process five years ago, it has been final for a little over three years.

The court would have mandated 3 years alimony, renewable but I agreed to 5 years, non-renewable to make sure that he couldn't renew it forever. (Thank God!)

I have two more years of alimony but will pay a good chunk of my after-tax income on child support. Even that amount would be enough for him to be able to live on, if he was smart about it (which he won't be).
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Old 08-17-2016, 02:49 PM
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I just can't wrap my head around alimony for these guys... Child support YES, maintenance for an addict NO! What stories are they spinning that they are unable to get a job for 5 freaking years!!!!? I can totally understand alimony maintenance for a woman SHORT TERM IF she gave up work to birth then raise her child until they got into a daycare or a school situation. But then she should be expected to get back to the workplace to support herself if the family unit breaks down and the only spousal support should be about child support and that's it. And now male ADDICTS get rewarded by the courts to sit home and get drunk (and more) and draw a "free paycheck" from the ex all under the guise of babysitting?? OMG. This injustice is infuriating!
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Old 08-17-2016, 02:53 PM
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We don't know the facts here, before you go getting all outraged. She said she didn't discover his alcoholism until after they were divorced. So it may well be that there were good grounds for ordering alimony at the time, and alimony is usually a fixed amount for a fixed term--it doesn't fluctuate depending on someone's income or employment status, generally speaking.
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:05 PM
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Example: My first husband gave up a pretty good job to move across the country, where he had to start at the bottom in the credit department of a large retailer, to support me while I was in law school, earning nothing for three years. When we divorced, several years later, I was making a better income with a better pension plan than he had. I agreed he could have the equity in our house in exchange for no alimony and our both keeping our respective pensions. We both came out OK. But if he hadn't agreed, he would have had a pretty good claim for alimony, based on his giving up income, supporting my career, and my increased income prospects.

And I think it would have been fair, had we not arrived at an alternative agreement that recognized those sacrifices and contribution.
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:23 PM
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Go girl!!!

I don't know what State you are in so I can't say. I worked in the legal field for a number of years. I have seen things.....that seem unfair. Most things, pretty fair. I have seen lazy attorneys, and amazing attorneys. Its like any other business good, and bad.

In the future, should he ever lay a hand on you please call the police. THAT would be documentation that would be beneficial to you, as well as protection for you if you need it, and punishment for him for committing a criminal act.

He thought that the thing that would work against us is the fact that he has a therapist who has gone on record regarding the strength of his recovery. I am hopeful that any judge would question that to be true given four missed SoberLink tests in a row just a month ago.



Seems to me you would be able to bring in your own expert to go on record with an evaluation of his so called "recovery".
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:24 PM
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Lexie I totally agree with what way your situation went, don't get me wrong. AND I don't know all the proper ins and outs of the OPs situation. But I've been finding more instances lately of addicts sitting on their asses preying on their well-adjusted and EMPLOYED partners than I'd like to admit actually exists!
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Old 08-18-2016, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Refiner View Post
Lexie I totally agree with what way your situation went, don't get me wrong. AND I don't know all the proper ins and outs of the OPs situation. But I've been finding more instances lately of addicts sitting on their asses preying on their well-adjusted and EMPLOYED partners than I'd like to admit actually exists!
I know more than one person who divorced an addict partner and got stuck supporting that person after the divorce for periods of several years pursuant to a court order (not a settlement agreement). It can be very frustrating.

In my case, my XH is NOT an addict. We decided when we had children that he would be the stay at home parent. My earning capacity was significantly higher than his. I did not necessarily object to a reasonable period of rehabilitative alimony. I made plenty of mistakes, though. He justified his request for 5 years of non-renewable alimony by saying he would go back to school. I did not insist on that being in the settlement agreement, and naturally, he never went back to school. In retrospect, I wish I would have been stronger emotionally and more willing to let things go to trial. I was so scared of having dirty laundry aired "publicly," and I just wanted to move on with my life, so I agreed to settle.

That said, I also fully acknowledge that the past is past. My alimony payments ended two years ago.
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:29 AM
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I don't know that the facts will make anyone feel any better about the alimony.

I did not know he was an alcoholic. But central to the breakdown of our marriage was the fact that he refused to look for another job when it became clear that he wouldn't make more than $5-10k a year. We had by then purchased a home under the assumption that he would make at least $40k a year. He always had some excuse for why he couldn't look, the DUI on his record; the stress of infertility etc. He always claimed that being childless was the source of all his stress and unhappiness.

Well finally after so many sessions of IVF I lost count, we were having twins. And I said, "OK, you should be over the moon! Now is the time to look for a job!"

And he said he preferred to "get thru the pregnancy" first. He suggested if I was so materially focused perhaps I should get a second job. (I was an SVP at the time who worked 50-60 hours a week and budgeted so carefully that we only ate meat once a week. I was worried about losing our house. He suggested I had money issues.)

There were other factors at play to be sure but that's when I had my "are you ******* kidding me" reaction and knew the marriage was not salvageable.

That reality was shared in our legal motion, along with the fact that he had a degree from a prestigious university as well as a secondary degree that should have allowed him to easily make six figures - had he not deemed it "too stressful" to practice.

Didn't end up mattering - he got the maximum he could have expected and left the courtroom gloating. The next day I visited the kids at his apartment and remember seeing a bottle of champagne.

It bothers me all the time how much we collectively spend on support payments but my current husband always says he would gladly spend it to be married to each other. He's right of course; we have to be very careful about our spending still, but it's a lot easier when you have a true partner who's committed to working with you and within a budget.
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:42 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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My AW has no idea what a budget is - I handle all the finances and watch how things get allocated. I can have input on how some of the money is spent - but not what is spent on wine and groceries! It's sad how much we throw away because she buys stuff we don't need/want and can't eat it all before it goes bad.

She grew up in a home without much money and I think she feels that now that she's in a better situation, she can haphazardly spend. Drives me nuts.
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:16 PM
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The latest crazy-making? He won't tell me where he lives. I know the building, but I've now asked multiple times what apartment and he isn't responding.

Beyond the fact that it's required by the JPA that he informs me where he lives - how weird is that? Maybe I'll add it to my motion.
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