The Classifications of F&F...
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Yeah, if there's one thing I've learned, it's that even when surface appearances suggest that two situations are the same (or different), what's REALLY going on may be a completely different story. Some alcoholics really do try, and fail, repeatedly. I've seen it in my AA acquaintances--the people who really DO want to succeed but they are not making it (usually because they are missing something along the way). And recoveries may succeed, but relationships fail. Not everyone who gets divorced or has a long-term relationship crash and burn is dealing with addiction.
I think there's a bit of a tendency here to attribute everything to alcoholism. While alcoholism has pervasive (and sometimes subtle) effects on the alcoholic and everyone/everything around the alcoholic, there are lots of other factors at work that are sometimes overlooked. The bottom line is those other issues cannot have any hope of being effectively addressed as long as the drinking is going on. But removing the drinking (and even terrific recovery) isn't any guarantee the relationship will survive. And that's not a "failure"--it's life.
I think there's a bit of a tendency here to attribute everything to alcoholism. While alcoholism has pervasive (and sometimes subtle) effects on the alcoholic and everyone/everything around the alcoholic, there are lots of other factors at work that are sometimes overlooked. The bottom line is those other issues cannot have any hope of being effectively addressed as long as the drinking is going on. But removing the drinking (and even terrific recovery) isn't any guarantee the relationship will survive. And that's not a "failure"--it's life.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 216
Lexie, your post count says it all when it comes to experience. 
Of course I never intended to cover every possible permutation of every relationship out there or even of everyone that comes here. I tried my best to hit the main items but as you said, there are those people who are in the "My alcoholic recovered and then we decided to break up over something completely unrelated" and the "my alcoholic is here and keeps trying to recover but keeps failing" (which I would still submit is a D.3). I just rarely see posts from those types, especially the first one, where the partner went into recovery, got better, and then they decided to break up about something else. I don't see a lot of those threads.
I think the biggest goal of starting this thread was to see if I was close to hitting MOST of the type of person here at the forum that was lurking or posting.
The really interesting part would be to cross-reference years of experience / years here at the board vs. the spectrum, where I believe we have a lot of A.4 in the early months, when you go years beyond the number of C1 increases.
In simpler terms, people who have been here for several years typically are either separated and happy C1, or together and in recovery E5 (I would argue that the balance between those two highly favors the C1). Sort of as a "here's what you likely have ahead of you just playing the odds" type of thing, the same way they always tell people who join AA that their odds of success without relapse is 10% or whatever.
It might help people to manage expectations, to know what the typical patterns are and the most common outcomes as well.
I think everyone comes here wanting to be the "my relationship was saved" success story, but most leave with a different kind of personal success story. And then of course, some stay involved in the muck forever.
Of course I never intended to cover every possible permutation of every relationship out there or even of everyone that comes here. I tried my best to hit the main items but as you said, there are those people who are in the "My alcoholic recovered and then we decided to break up over something completely unrelated" and the "my alcoholic is here and keeps trying to recover but keeps failing" (which I would still submit is a D.3). I just rarely see posts from those types, especially the first one, where the partner went into recovery, got better, and then they decided to break up about something else. I don't see a lot of those threads.
I think the biggest goal of starting this thread was to see if I was close to hitting MOST of the type of person here at the forum that was lurking or posting.
The really interesting part would be to cross-reference years of experience / years here at the board vs. the spectrum, where I believe we have a lot of A.4 in the early months, when you go years beyond the number of C1 increases.
In simpler terms, people who have been here for several years typically are either separated and happy C1, or together and in recovery E5 (I would argue that the balance between those two highly favors the C1). Sort of as a "here's what you likely have ahead of you just playing the odds" type of thing, the same way they always tell people who join AA that their odds of success without relapse is 10% or whatever.
It might help people to manage expectations, to know what the typical patterns are and the most common outcomes as well.
I think everyone comes here wanting to be the "my relationship was saved" success story, but most leave with a different kind of personal success story. And then of course, some stay involved in the muck forever.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I don't know if you ever heard my own story, Wells, but my first husband got sober the year before we got married. He had the most stellar recovery of anyone I ever met. Not that he doesn't have "issues"--we ALL do. But he is a shining example of what real recovery looks like.
We split up, after 14 years of marriage, because I wasn't feeling "right" about the marriage. It was a little bit like living with a saint (or that's how it felt--I used to half-joke that my family liked him better than they did me), and I guess I still had an attraction to the, well, not BAD boys, but someone a little less predictable. I fell out of love, or questioned whether I had married him out of a sense of obligation--after all, he'd done all the RIGHT stuff.
Eventually, I felt he deserved better than a life sentence to someone who respected and admired him (and even loved him) but didn't desire him. So I left. He took it hard (understandable) but he worked it through and today we are still very close friends. I stay with him and his wife (who loves him the way he deserves) when I go out to visit my kiddos. The kids have been on their own for a few years but we still celebrate holidays there together. I feel like they are both still family, and my dad just told me today that my ex had called him to visit--he still treats my dad like family, too.
So I'd say that's a terrific success story in terms of recovery, and the end of the relationship was certainly not his fault, and I'd like to think not mine, either.
Now, my SECOND alcoholic marriage (lol, yeah, I did have issues) was a different story--he almost died of liver/kidney failure, then got momentarily sober (during which time, in an unwarranted burst of optimism, I married him) and left him a few months later when he went back to full-time drinking (in lieu of a job) and showed no signs of ever being really ready to quit.
So, in a sense, THAT is a success story in terms of how I handled it. Al-Anon was my lifeline, I left as soon as it became clear I was probably headed for another deathbed vigil. OTOH, I soon started working on developing my OWN alcoholism (which had been dormant for years while married to first husband, resurfaced during early part of relationship with second husband, went dormant again during his attempts at sobriety).
So I probably have one of the weirder stories around here, but all I can say is I've seen an awful lot in my 37 years "around" recovery, and the bottom line is I'm in a good place today. There is hope for everyone.
We split up, after 14 years of marriage, because I wasn't feeling "right" about the marriage. It was a little bit like living with a saint (or that's how it felt--I used to half-joke that my family liked him better than they did me), and I guess I still had an attraction to the, well, not BAD boys, but someone a little less predictable. I fell out of love, or questioned whether I had married him out of a sense of obligation--after all, he'd done all the RIGHT stuff.
Eventually, I felt he deserved better than a life sentence to someone who respected and admired him (and even loved him) but didn't desire him. So I left. He took it hard (understandable) but he worked it through and today we are still very close friends. I stay with him and his wife (who loves him the way he deserves) when I go out to visit my kiddos. The kids have been on their own for a few years but we still celebrate holidays there together. I feel like they are both still family, and my dad just told me today that my ex had called him to visit--he still treats my dad like family, too.
So I'd say that's a terrific success story in terms of recovery, and the end of the relationship was certainly not his fault, and I'd like to think not mine, either.
Now, my SECOND alcoholic marriage (lol, yeah, I did have issues) was a different story--he almost died of liver/kidney failure, then got momentarily sober (during which time, in an unwarranted burst of optimism, I married him) and left him a few months later when he went back to full-time drinking (in lieu of a job) and showed no signs of ever being really ready to quit.
So, in a sense, THAT is a success story in terms of how I handled it. Al-Anon was my lifeline, I left as soon as it became clear I was probably headed for another deathbed vigil. OTOH, I soon started working on developing my OWN alcoholism (which had been dormant for years while married to first husband, resurfaced during early part of relationship with second husband, went dormant again during his attempts at sobriety).
So I probably have one of the weirder stories around here, but all I can say is I've seen an awful lot in my 37 years "around" recovery, and the bottom line is I'm in a good place today. There is hope for everyone.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 216
That is quite a story indeed. I think you would also admit pretty unqiue from what we see around here, especially your first husband's recovery and the eventual amicable split. A unicorn type of situation you just don't see much around SR unfortunately.
I do like to think that eventually every one of us that comes here winds up in a good place. It may take some months, years, decades to get there, but I am a strong believer in that with understanding comes peace and happiness. I think a lot of people come here for understanding. Or at least to ask for help, which leads to understanding, which leads to all those other good things.
I do like to think that eventually every one of us that comes here winds up in a good place. It may take some months, years, decades to get there, but I am a strong believer in that with understanding comes peace and happiness. I think a lot of people come here for understanding. Or at least to ask for help, which leads to understanding, which leads to all those other good things.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Well, it might be a BIT unicorn-ish, but it's also an example of how things can work out even when they don't work out, provided both people are able to be fair and kind to each other. He's been a great support to me in my sobriety, too--I get a lovely card with an inevitably inspiring photo (taken by him) and inspiring note from him on my sobriety anniversary every year. Our paths have kind of run parallel--maybe we weren't meant to be "together" in a marriage, but we still help and support each other as friends.
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 430
Lexie, Your story brings tears to my eyes, especially the addendum about the note, above. It shows how possible it is to have a real, caring, relationship that is completely different from the Disney scenarios we all are fed.
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Pardon me for jumping in 
You won't. The people who sign up for SR are a "self selecting group." What you see in common to every member is _questions_. Peeps who have sufficient resources in real life with which to deal with addiction or dysfunction are not going to do a Google search for help.
See, that is my point. SR does _not_ represent the typical patterns and outcomes. It only represents people who are in the midst of "destabiliztion pattern". That's shrink-speak for a situation that _used_ to be fairly stable and changing very slowly and suddenly lost stability and is changing rapidly. Not a crisis, but heading that way.
Basically, peeps come to SR because something has _changed_ beyond their ability to understand it and they are looking for answers. Peeps who are "comfortable" in a dysfunctional relationship, or who are handling it to their satisfaction, are actually far, far more common.
Still, your analysis and classification is very helpful to peeps who _are_ members, and even more so to the lurkers who may not feel that SR is a good "fit" for them.
Mike
Moderator, SR
Originally Posted by Wells 
... I don't see a lot of those threads....
Originally Posted by Wells
... It might help people to manage expectations, to know what the typical patterns are and the most common outcomes as well....
Basically, peeps come to SR because something has _changed_ beyond their ability to understand it and they are looking for answers. Peeps who are "comfortable" in a dysfunctional relationship, or who are handling it to their satisfaction, are actually far, far more common.
Still, your analysis and classification is very helpful to peeps who _are_ members, and even more so to the lurkers who may not feel that SR is a good "fit" for them.
Mike
Moderator, SR
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 844
Thank you for this post and its timing is perfect for me. Ive o my been coming to this forum for a couple months off and on but I think your breakdown of what is posted about here is true and the last reminder post that this isnt really a good cross section of addiction and recovery but a subset of people who are at a crisis or are unable to move past a relationship mixed with what I have to say is maybe some constant members who especially work their 12 step here.
See I fit into your rare class 5 of successful recovery of a then boyfriend where our relationship grew and blossomed and he did fine and we were living a normal life, not even one based on attending programs or anything. He had a therapist he would see when needed.
It wasnt a blip. All had been great for years and then this summer he did relapse on drugs and drink. It was following a bunch of stressful and challenging events including a move and new job and as I was reminded today in my thoughts we tried to get pregnant and it didnt happen so we ended up deciding to take a break from that sort of heartbroken.
I came here panicked because like the norm he was out of control, and a lot of bad stuff has happened. I'm more confused than ever and trying to form my thoughts and feelings.
Sometimes the outlook here is outright gloomy. Its as if there is no successful recovery or that it has to look specifically like what the one rare person who continues to post here says worked for them. But all those years we were fine, I never would have come here. I never went to meetings. I was too busy living and enjoying my life. I do know others who have done the exact same thing and I can't forget that reality. It may not be the story of people here, but really think subset and people share what they know and have been rhrough . If negative then thats what the perception will be when reading about my situation. Or if their recovery looked like this then that perception is put upon me.
Its good to keep this in mind and I am guilty of reading a few days now and forgetting I have seen recovery. I know your #5 in reality is huge but its not represented here.
And weird coincidence my husband who has been going to meetings, his biggest issue is they are depressing hearing these war stories and hearing others sharing what they feel it takes to recover and the ones who didnt do as suggested and how they witnessed their deeper fall and often death. But meetings are a subset too. My alanon leader is very helpful but she can only share her experiences because she would be like a fish out of water had she experiences the #5 I had for so many years.
Your post is perspective I've been in desperate need of today. Thank you for taking the time to look deeper and share.
See I fit into your rare class 5 of successful recovery of a then boyfriend where our relationship grew and blossomed and he did fine and we were living a normal life, not even one based on attending programs or anything. He had a therapist he would see when needed.
It wasnt a blip. All had been great for years and then this summer he did relapse on drugs and drink. It was following a bunch of stressful and challenging events including a move and new job and as I was reminded today in my thoughts we tried to get pregnant and it didnt happen so we ended up deciding to take a break from that sort of heartbroken.
I came here panicked because like the norm he was out of control, and a lot of bad stuff has happened. I'm more confused than ever and trying to form my thoughts and feelings.
Sometimes the outlook here is outright gloomy. Its as if there is no successful recovery or that it has to look specifically like what the one rare person who continues to post here says worked for them. But all those years we were fine, I never would have come here. I never went to meetings. I was too busy living and enjoying my life. I do know others who have done the exact same thing and I can't forget that reality. It may not be the story of people here, but really think subset and people share what they know and have been rhrough . If negative then thats what the perception will be when reading about my situation. Or if their recovery looked like this then that perception is put upon me.
Its good to keep this in mind and I am guilty of reading a few days now and forgetting I have seen recovery. I know your #5 in reality is huge but its not represented here.
And weird coincidence my husband who has been going to meetings, his biggest issue is they are depressing hearing these war stories and hearing others sharing what they feel it takes to recover and the ones who didnt do as suggested and how they witnessed their deeper fall and often death. But meetings are a subset too. My alanon leader is very helpful but she can only share her experiences because she would be like a fish out of water had she experiences the #5 I had for so many years.
Your post is perspective I've been in desperate need of today. Thank you for taking the time to look deeper and share.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Alicia.....I think that things would go better for y ou, on this forum, if your tone weren't so condescending to the membership, in general.
Communication is a two way street...and I think that the members have been vey kind and compassionate to you....and try very hard to help you.
I realize that you may not realize how your tone comes across.....so that is why I am giving you this honest feedback......
dandylion
Communication is a two way street...and I think that the members have been vey kind and compassionate to you....and try very hard to help you.
I realize that you may not realize how your tone comes across.....so that is why I am giving you this honest feedback......
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,388
These might be types, as you call them, but they can also be stages. What you describe as type 4 might one day find courage and strength to leave (I was type 4 for 6 years!!!). Then they become Type 1 or 2, or they can be Type 2 for some time, slowly transitioning into Type 1. Or Type 2 may become Type 3, and go back to Type 4. These categories seem quite fluid. I just hope I stick with Type 1.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Yup, I've been one of those people who some here would "classify" as #5. And I'm also one of the ones ringing the alarm bells the loudest for you. So I hardly think I'm "projecting" my "negative experiences" onto you. You will notice that I post very positive, hopeful posts for many people here, regardless of what their alcoholics are up to, because they are taking steps to better their own situations.
I'm not trying to criticize you--I understand what happens when abuse is in the picture. But I'm very worried about you because of the things YOU have told us he's done to you. I believe you when you said them. I don't think you were exaggerating.
None of us gets any benefit or brownie points for painting a negative picture of your future with this man. There are many, many alcoholics described here who do terribly destructive things but do not abuse their partners. I've known many, MANY successfully recovered alcoholics--including myself. So I know recovery is possible. I just haven't seen any sign, from anything you've ever described, to suggest to me that he is, at this point in time, anywhere NEAR wanting to get sober and stay that way.
I'm not trying to criticize you--I understand what happens when abuse is in the picture. But I'm very worried about you because of the things YOU have told us he's done to you. I believe you when you said them. I don't think you were exaggerating.
None of us gets any benefit or brownie points for painting a negative picture of your future with this man. There are many, many alcoholics described here who do terribly destructive things but do not abuse their partners. I've known many, MANY successfully recovered alcoholics--including myself. So I know recovery is possible. I just haven't seen any sign, from anything you've ever described, to suggest to me that he is, at this point in time, anywhere NEAR wanting to get sober and stay that way.
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 844
I dont mean to make anyone here who shares feel bad. Theres a ton experience here and I'm taking from it with appreciation.
I need to keep perspective though so I'm.not swept away. My outlook, looking at th facts only I have a front row to, using guides from all of your experiences to examine it all is so helpful. But think about it. We are all shaped by our experiences and just reading here its clear a lot of subsets are not here to represent their side so I cant use their information as well.
I need to keep perspective though so I'm.not swept away. My outlook, looking at th facts only I have a front row to, using guides from all of your experiences to examine it all is so helpful. But think about it. We are all shaped by our experiences and just reading here its clear a lot of subsets are not here to represent their side so I cant use their information as well.
Originally Posted by dandylion
Alicia.....I think that things would go better for y ou, on this forum, if your tone weren't so condescending to the membership, in general.
Communication is a two way street...and I think that the members have been vey kind and compassionate to you....and try very hard to help you.
I realize that you may not realize how your tone comes across.....so that is why I am giving you this honest feedback......
dandylion
Communication is a two way street...and I think that the members have been vey kind and compassionate to you....and try very hard to help you.
I realize that you may not realize how your tone comes across.....so that is why I am giving you this honest feedback......
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
I dont mean to make anyone here who shares feel bad. Theres a ton experience here and I'm taking from it with appreciation.
Condecending adj: Having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.
You haven't made anyone here feel bad. You are just determined to prove everyone here is different than YOU, and every alcoholic addict is different than your AH and you do so by dismissing them, and often stating "you know better than everybody else".
Yet, here you are back at #3 no longer a #5. Regardless of the happy years, which I am glad for, your husband proves that not working an active recovery results in relapse. He is also proving that he is not dedicated to recovery or sobriety as he weasels his way back out of promised Rehab.
Certainly it good to use others experience, everyone is different. There is commonality to become a #5 begins with a commitment to sobriety. Hubby of yours has backed out on Rehab, says he doesn't have time for therapy, and says meetings are depressing. Its just not good, Its red flags.
Condecending adj: Having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.
You haven't made anyone here feel bad. You are just determined to prove everyone here is different than YOU, and every alcoholic addict is different than your AH and you do so by dismissing them, and often stating "you know better than everybody else".
Yet, here you are back at #3 no longer a #5. Regardless of the happy years, which I am glad for, your husband proves that not working an active recovery results in relapse. He is also proving that he is not dedicated to recovery or sobriety as he weasels his way back out of promised Rehab.
Certainly it good to use others experience, everyone is different. There is commonality to become a #5 begins with a commitment to sobriety. Hubby of yours has backed out on Rehab, says he doesn't have time for therapy, and says meetings are depressing. Its just not good, Its red flags.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 844
I appreciate everyones input and concern for me. I found this thread helpful. I do have my own experiences and those have a lot of value. lessons learned, many things done right by myself and my husband. Advice from doctors and other resources. I would be foolish to forget this and toss it all away.
I have been upset. I am questioning things. I am asking for help. I apologize if I sometimes come across as unappreciative or condescending in how I write.
I posted here because this thread is helpful to me. A good reminder to keep my mind open and not get tunnel vision while I'm feeling vulnerable and want a quick solution.
Ideas and decisions I have to make are going to affect my future. I have to get it right in my own mind and what you are seeing is me trying to do this. Hang with me or dont, but its about me and my process not any of you personally.
I have been upset. I am questioning things. I am asking for help. I apologize if I sometimes come across as unappreciative or condescending in how I write.
I posted here because this thread is helpful to me. A good reminder to keep my mind open and not get tunnel vision while I'm feeling vulnerable and want a quick solution.
Ideas and decisions I have to make are going to affect my future. I have to get it right in my own mind and what you are seeing is me trying to do this. Hang with me or dont, but its about me and my process not any of you personally.
Originally Posted by redatlanta
I dont mean to make anyone here who shares feel bad. Theres a ton experience here and I'm taking from it with appreciation.
Condecending adj: Having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.
You haven't made anyone here feel bad. You are just determined to prove everyone here is different than YOU, and every alcoholic addict is different than your AH and you do so by dismissing them, and often stating "you know better than everybody else".
Yet, here you are back at #3 no longer a #5. Regardless of the happy years, which I am glad for, your husband proves that not working an active recovery results in relapse. He is also proving that he is not dedicated to recovery or sobriety as he weasels his way back out of promised Rehab.
Certainly it good to use others experience, everyone is different. There is commonality to become a #5 begins with a commitment to sobriety. Hubby of yours has backed out on Rehab, says he doesn't have time for therapy, and says meetings are depressing. Its just not good, Its red flags.
Condecending adj: Having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.
You haven't made anyone here feel bad. You are just determined to prove everyone here is different than YOU, and every alcoholic addict is different than your AH and you do so by dismissing them, and often stating "you know better than everybody else".
Yet, here you are back at #3 no longer a #5. Regardless of the happy years, which I am glad for, your husband proves that not working an active recovery results in relapse. He is also proving that he is not dedicated to recovery or sobriety as he weasels his way back out of promised Rehab.
Certainly it good to use others experience, everyone is different. There is commonality to become a #5 begins with a commitment to sobriety. Hubby of yours has backed out on Rehab, says he doesn't have time for therapy, and says meetings are depressing. Its just not good, Its red flags.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
my last ex and i were #5 - met in recovery...i had a year, he had 3 and was considered a GOD in NA. we became the "perfect" recovery couple and for a long time things seemed GOOD. except i slowly pulled away from my AA foundation and gravitated to HIS NA camp....and i began to lose sight of the prize.
and ended up choosing to drink again. i hid it from my H as long as i could...the last thing i wanted to do was have MY return to drinking give him ideas. while it didn't stop me from drinking, it did keep me in line somewhat.
long story short.....the return to addiction pushed us apart. or pushed me farther away from him. and after 13 years, i left.
wound up with a crack addict, BECAME a crack addict, and over time got clean. then he got clean. so technically we are back at #5 again.
but i sure don't feel like i get to plant the flag and say WE ARE HERE. because we remain today exactly ONE bad decision away. one bad day, one F it, one offer from one person - hey wanna do a line? - one thought of ONE more time. and it can all go POOF.
i can only control ME, and just barely. i can't get hank to take out the garbage when I SAY SO, much less get him to quit doing ANYTHING. so while our lives are good, they are precarious. and always will be. we have an illness, currently in remission, that will NEVER die, NEVER go away.....the beast will always lurk. we have issues, we have jobs, we have stresses, we have bills, after 13 years we aren't always getting along so well at times, we have trips to the vet, a roof that leaks when it DOESN'T rain (in winter), a mortgage that is still underwater, i need to get my car in for an overdue oil change, and i have one headlight out.
my point is.....LIFE GOES ON.....and it doesn't CARE if we are 2 days off crack, or meth, or booze.....or if we feel to sick to go to jobs......or the kids are on our nerves......recovery doesn't mean we retire from life, it means we REJOIN life. as quickly and with as much zeal as we can.
the Big Book says (pgs 84-85 Step Ten):
It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of God's will into all of our activities. "How can I best serve Thee - Thy will (not mine) be done." These are thoughts which must go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will.
whether you agree with the GOD part or not, the message is the same.....we are not CURED. ever.
and ended up choosing to drink again. i hid it from my H as long as i could...the last thing i wanted to do was have MY return to drinking give him ideas. while it didn't stop me from drinking, it did keep me in line somewhat.
long story short.....the return to addiction pushed us apart. or pushed me farther away from him. and after 13 years, i left.
wound up with a crack addict, BECAME a crack addict, and over time got clean. then he got clean. so technically we are back at #5 again.
but i sure don't feel like i get to plant the flag and say WE ARE HERE. because we remain today exactly ONE bad decision away. one bad day, one F it, one offer from one person - hey wanna do a line? - one thought of ONE more time. and it can all go POOF.
i can only control ME, and just barely. i can't get hank to take out the garbage when I SAY SO, much less get him to quit doing ANYTHING. so while our lives are good, they are precarious. and always will be. we have an illness, currently in remission, that will NEVER die, NEVER go away.....the beast will always lurk. we have issues, we have jobs, we have stresses, we have bills, after 13 years we aren't always getting along so well at times, we have trips to the vet, a roof that leaks when it DOESN'T rain (in winter), a mortgage that is still underwater, i need to get my car in for an overdue oil change, and i have one headlight out.
my point is.....LIFE GOES ON.....and it doesn't CARE if we are 2 days off crack, or meth, or booze.....or if we feel to sick to go to jobs......or the kids are on our nerves......recovery doesn't mean we retire from life, it means we REJOIN life. as quickly and with as much zeal as we can.
the Big Book says (pgs 84-85 Step Ten):
It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of God's will into all of our activities. "How can I best serve Thee - Thy will (not mine) be done." These are thoughts which must go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will.
whether you agree with the GOD part or not, the message is the same.....we are not CURED. ever.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
You know, thinking about all of this last night made me realize that there is an entire subset of people not represented here at all - except maybe in lurking mode:
Those who, regardless of whether their qualifiers become sober, never Accept their own Codependency & never truly seek recovery themselves.
Not every person affected by an addict qualifies as a Codie but I have seen, repeatedly, how an unrecovering codependent person can cause as much/more chaos given enough time. My RAF died & my mother's codependency only continued to thrive & grow for decades, continually impacting all of us.
I am forever grateful, every day, that I gave myself this gift to grow & change. It has brought me the most expansive growth I've ever experienced because it involves my mind, body & soul on the deepest, most intimate levels.
Those who, regardless of whether their qualifiers become sober, never Accept their own Codependency & never truly seek recovery themselves.
Not every person affected by an addict qualifies as a Codie but I have seen, repeatedly, how an unrecovering codependent person can cause as much/more chaos given enough time. My RAF died & my mother's codependency only continued to thrive & grow for decades, continually impacting all of us.
I am forever grateful, every day, that I gave myself this gift to grow & change. It has brought me the most expansive growth I've ever experienced because it involves my mind, body & soul on the deepest, most intimate levels.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
I know your #5 in reality is huge but its not represented here.
I literally cannot count the number of addicts I have known in my life, across many different relationships. It's depressing, in all seriousness to run out of fingers & toes before you've realllllly scratched the surface of counting.
The number that truly see the need for recovery & become sober at all is incredibly small. Out of those, the number that actually remain sober with zero relapse is tiny. I've known people to go very long periods between relapses (years) but still suffer multiple relapses over their lifetimes.
I think healthyagain makes a solid point about it all being better defined as "stages" rather than definable labels. JMHO, of course!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
Anvil, that was a very powerful post. It's why I'm a #1 from my XAH, and from my live-in XRABF who appears to be recovering well. When his addiction surfaced I wasn't willing to join that ride and maybe jump from 5 to 3 to 5 to 3... I can control my life at a steady 1 and feel fantastic.
Alicia--something you said here struck me...my XAH and XABF both always said that the stories at AA were depressing and everything was a downer. When XABF TRULY started recovering, he changed his tune completely and didn't feel that way anymore. Just saying that it sounds like excuses to me.
Alicia--something you said here struck me...my XAH and XABF both always said that the stories at AA were depressing and everything was a downer. When XABF TRULY started recovering, he changed his tune completely and didn't feel that way anymore. Just saying that it sounds like excuses to me.
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