pndm07

we file separate, so I don't unfortunately.

firebolt

deleted cause 5 of us posted the same thing at once

Wisconsin

I don't know of a single US jurisdiction where you would need a W-2 or a tax return to file for divorce. There ARE financial affidavits that must be filled out during the pendency of the divorce, and those generally include producing proof of income. But you don't need that stuff to file. Particularly if part of that process includes some kind of protective order, and/or a temporary order for child support.

If your AH will not produce them, the court can subpoena his tax returns from the IRS, and/or his pay stubs or W-2 from his employer. I'm not sure why doing that would necessarily cost you a bunch of money. Your lawyer can issue a simple subpoena, and the judge can just order your AH to produce the document. If your AH flat-out refuses to comply, he can be held in contempt of court, and a judge will often then impute a certain level of income to him based on his education, qualifications, and work history.

Please don't let this deter you!

pndm07

Hi Wisc - I wish you were my lawyer! My lawyer said that they need it for the sake of determining how much child support is required (a min of $25.month I think) and even though I am not asking for it he said they need it to protect the interest of the child. I agree it sounds kind of nuts. I am in NY by the way. This is just what he told me. I suppose I can try his employer?? I mean legally I am still married to him. Can the employer refuse?

pndm07

Also, he said that if he doesn't produce them, they can issue a summons, but that would end up costing a fortune and taking much longer (and getting quite ugly in the process)

Wisconsin

Who told you that a summons would cost a fortune? Your lawyer? I know absolutely zero about NY law, unfortunately, although hopefully Lexie will weigh in. It's true that issuing summons and subpoenaing records when someone refuses to produce them can create conflict. That's just part of the dynamic, unfortunately. But honestly, do not let this deter you! Get the divorce filing made. Like I said, I can't imagine you need his tax information to FILE for divorce--you only need it before the divorce is FINAL. The court may refuse to "waive" child support anyway, and demand he produce proof of his income (or lack thereof), or risk the court imputing income to him and forcing him to pay child support even though you don't ask for it. States vary widely on how aggressive they are on child support issues. Some states will absolutely put a child support order in every single divorce unless the parents make exactly the same money and split custody exactly 50/50. There may be states that won't issue a child support order unless a party requests one.

The bottom line is, don't let your worst-case-scenario fears keep you from getting the ball rolling on this. It is going to take at least several months for everything to wrap up, anyway, even in amicable and cooperative divorces. You can't possibly know how this will all work out in the end, and to wait to file for divorce until you have his income information, in my opinion, just prolongs your misery.

I don't know if his employer will give you his income information, although I doubt they are legally required to do so. It certainly can't hurt to ask, but I would not expect them to give it to you.

fred59

there has to be a legal way the W2 can be obtained and the attorney should be able to guide you through this, I have to believe this is standard operating procedure.
IMO you are doing the right thing.

dandylion

There is an information website called: WomansDivorce.com. It covers most areas of divorce. It is sorted by state. And, it gives sources for information.
It is for educational purposes...and, is not meant to replace your own lawyer....
If you don't get satisfaction...maybe you should consider the second opinion...?

DO NOT let this deter you, like Wisonsin said.....

pndm07

Thank you all - and Wisconsin, really appreciate your counsel. If I can't get it from AH, I will try the employer, and if that doesn't work, I'll see what else I can do. I would think there has to be a way around this. This is just sickening, on top of the heartache and pain that this is causing. Thank you guys for your support.

Wisconsin

I know how easy it is to feel thrown off and derailed by even the smallest things at this stage. Just try to pause, breathe deeply, and keep the big picture in focus. Ask yourself "is this going to matter 12 months from now?" Visualize where you want to be a year from now, and then refuse to let any of these little road bumps keep you from working toward that goal.

To my knowledge, the way around this is to let the court do its job and compel your AH to produce needed documents, upon penalty of contempt of court and a child support order that may reflect an assumed income much higher than what he actually makes.

pndm07

Thanks again. I just feel so rotten. I just can't believe that I have gotten to this point. This is a man I love and now I am thinking of how to get his w2 to divorce him because he is drunk. I mean I don't love the way he is now, or the way he has conducted himself, and I hate that he has left me no choice (getting drunk right before I have surgery) but I just can't believe how this has happened. How he went from being this good guy to this dysfunctional drunk. All I do is worry, and then I worry about my son too, and hope that he doesn't follow those footsteps, because I could never handle that. Anyway I'm ranting now, just have had a crappy week. And not helping is that my mother is now acting like the sky has fallen b/c I need his financials to get divorced.
I know I've ranted but I just feel so low. Thanks for listening.

dandylion

pndm......I suggest that you refrain from discussing any of the nuts and bolts details of this sensitive subject with your m other---in a polite way, of course.
Just broad sweeping statements....like---"Everything is in the hands of the court, now. Just a matter of waiting".....If she keeps asking you questions....just say things like....."I don't know, anything, yet". ....or...."When the divorce is final, I will let you know".......

dandylion

Sunshine1234

It's a terrible feeling and one I am feeling also. It's a hard pill to swallow....thinking this is the person you will be with forever to how do I get away from this person once and for all. With all of the bumps you are going to experience, just keep focused on why you are doing what you are doing and focus on his actions not his words over the course of your relationship. I have been doing that and it helps. You got this!

sugarbear1

http://www.nycbar.org/pdf/childsupport.pdf

Have you asked him directly for a copy of his W-2?

Freedom1990

He has to do it for himself, hon. Nothing we do is going to get/keep them sober.

My ex decided to drink whiskey and shoot dope the day he got out of rehab.

I went through rehab shortly after him, and I never went back home. If I had, he would either beat me to death, I'd overdose, or commit suicide.

I strongly urge you to really work on yourself. Doing that was an eye-opener for me. I continued in a pattern of hooking up with really dysfunctional men for 11 more miserable years before I got dead serious about my recovery.

Had I stuck with my own recovery, I could have saved myself a lot of pain. However I am grateful for what I've been through because it has made me who I am today.

I know this is difficult for you, but please know you have a lot of support here, including me.

Flavia2

Do you think maybe he uses Turbo Tax to file? That's how I got copies of tax forms (had to change password but got in and printed). Very difficult to get them to give a copy of pay stub or W2. ((((Good luck))))

sauerkraut

I don't know anything about getting tax returns or W-2s, but going back to your original post I wanted to point out that you can protect your child from the affects of his drinking. Several of us on this board have gotten court-ordered sobriety monitoring for our ex spouses when they have custody or visitation. I think my STBXAH has been sober more since I left him than when I was with him, so that he can be with our children. Given your AH's history, it shouldn't be too difficult to get the court to insist that he follow a sobriety monitoring program when he sees your son.

AnvilheadII

regardless of the cirucumstances, i would be LIVID if my employer gave my W2 to ANYONE but me, unless ordered by subpoena. i understand that YOU need it, but it is a protected document.

i suggest you try ASKING him first. then if he refuses, you take the next steps. it seems to me that there must be a work-around as not all divorces are amiable, and sometimes the other party can't be located.

you don't have to solve it all in the next hour. take a breath. take a break.

pndm07

Update - he called me today and I told him. Told him I needed his w2, and why. Of course, he started hyperventilating, said he understood but was "surprised." Surprised? I told him after last relapse that I would divorce if this happens again. I guess he just knew that I never stuck to word before.
I told him that I still loved him (I hope that wasn't a mistake) but that I can't live with the sword of his alcoholism over my head and the legal/financial headaches that it could cause. That I want him to be well but my attempts to control it were futile. That I don't want to live in constant fear of his drinking because he either will or he won't, regardless of whether we are married or not, or anything else. He asked if he could still see our son on weekends and I said yes as long as he is stone cold sober. Then he asked if I want to meet someone else and I just said "I can't think about that now." He again hyperventilated and started whining like a baby.
Aside from the technicality of getting the w2, I have so many worries. I know I am doing the right thing (and this forum has really helped me in my conviction), but I am so, so worried about how things will play out. Maybe NC would be best but with a child that's impossible. And, I would not give him our son alone. I would want to be around at all times and I have that right, and I don't think he would argue with me there. How will I be able to continue having a life of my own under these circumstances? I don't want to be sucked back in to this insanity. I do love him still and I even told him that, but I hate what he did and the pain he has inflicted. I can't understand how he is "surprised" when he went and drank right before I needed him having hip surgery. I mean, I believe it, because that's par for the course for A's, but really! The he said he's sorry, and I said (and I read this in Co-dependent No More") that it's not my forgiveness he needs, it's help. I just don't know how I'm going to handle all this. Uggh. One step at a time. I'm a mess of emotions and anxiety.

Sunshine1234

Yes one step at a time, one day at a time. I am in the same predicament as far as children. What I am doing now, and it is working so far, is supervised visits until a clean drug test (no attempts have even been made to take a drug test). I have heard about sober link through this site and maybe that would be something of interest to you? My AH has yet to show me a clean drug test so I only allow him to see the kids at my parents house. He so far is complying. To be honest, I don't think he would want to take them by himself because I don't think he's capable or could handle them and it sounds like that may be the same case with you as well. My lawyer advised me to "play nice" so I don't look bad when this goes in front of a judge and to allow him to see the kids but always supervised. I too wanted to go NC and I tried but it was very difficult when there are kids involved. I just don't respond to any of his texts or emails unless it involves the kids. When I see him on his visitation days I don't engage or converse with him. In the beginning this is all SUPER overwhelming and it's hard to wrap your head around how you will handle everything. But it does get easier and you will be OK and will see as time passes that you are much happier living in a peaceful environment. As others have told me on here pay attention to his ACTIONS and not his WORDS. He will probably try his best now that you have told him your plans to leave to convince you to stay. Stay strong and keep remembering all of the things he has done. Big big hugs