Contact during rehab
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 18
Contact during rehab
First post and confused.
My MIL was sober for about 7 years and then relapsed a couple of years ago. She went to rehab a couple of times and continued to relapse multiple times. She has gone away to rehab for at least a month this time. She is not allowed contact for a week then only gets 20 mins a few times a week.
My DH is an only child, raised by a single mom. He is very enmeshed and codependent. He wanted our 4 yr old DD to see MIL before she left. Then MIL said she might get too emotional. So only he met her for lunch. Well, now he is trying to plan our night when she can make her first call and wants our DD to at least get to say hi to her on the phone. I don't agree.
There is a lot of background and Haven't seen her in a month (wants weekly visits) but I am trying to figure out how it benefits our daughter to talk to her. What I worry about are the possible questions? I don't think we are ready for it. Explaining it to her. I won't lie. When she was 2 she went to rehab locally and I took DD to see her a few times and said she was at a retreat. But she is older now and perceptive. And she knows something has been going on with MIL.
Looking for thoughts or experiences others have had. Should we let her have contact while away? If so, how do we explain and help her understand? Feel like once a question about it is asked it takes away her innocence. DH thinks it is good for DD to get to talk to her.
My MIL was sober for about 7 years and then relapsed a couple of years ago. She went to rehab a couple of times and continued to relapse multiple times. She has gone away to rehab for at least a month this time. She is not allowed contact for a week then only gets 20 mins a few times a week.
My DH is an only child, raised by a single mom. He is very enmeshed and codependent. He wanted our 4 yr old DD to see MIL before she left. Then MIL said she might get too emotional. So only he met her for lunch. Well, now he is trying to plan our night when she can make her first call and wants our DD to at least get to say hi to her on the phone. I don't agree.
There is a lot of background and Haven't seen her in a month (wants weekly visits) but I am trying to figure out how it benefits our daughter to talk to her. What I worry about are the possible questions? I don't think we are ready for it. Explaining it to her. I won't lie. When she was 2 she went to rehab locally and I took DD to see her a few times and said she was at a retreat. But she is older now and perceptive. And she knows something has been going on with MIL.
Looking for thoughts or experiences others have had. Should we let her have contact while away? If so, how do we explain and help her understand? Feel like once a question about it is asked it takes away her innocence. DH thinks it is good for DD to get to talk to her.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
How in the world would a 4 year old talking to her grandmother who is seeking help be "taking away her innocence "? I think you're making a pretty big leap on that one. Just call it an educational retreat then - bc it kind of is. Why are you acting like there should be shame and secrets about this? Maybe that is the bigger question.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 18
Taking away her innocence by having to explain things to her about alcoholism. I don't want to lie to her about anything if she asks questions and can't see her. They don't normally talk on the phone, they FaceTime if they do talk.
Shame and secrets? How do I want to keep secrets by not wanting to lie to her? How is that showing shame or keep secrets? Educational? That is a stretch. I don't want to lie to her, I was lied to in the last and it stuck with me and hate when people lie. I won't lie for her to lose trust in us as parents. But need to deal with it on a 4 year old's level.
Rehab is not typically a good time. People have good days and bad days. I don't want her being used as a crutch as she has in the past.
I am asking here for advice and thoughts as my main concern is protecting my daughter.
Shame and secrets? How do I want to keep secrets by not wanting to lie to her? How is that showing shame or keep secrets? Educational? That is a stretch. I don't want to lie to her, I was lied to in the last and it stuck with me and hate when people lie. I won't lie for her to lose trust in us as parents. But need to deal with it on a 4 year old's level.
Rehab is not typically a good time. People have good days and bad days. I don't want her being used as a crutch as she has in the past.
I am asking here for advice and thoughts as my main concern is protecting my daughter.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
PDF, if you have to explain it at all you could say Grandma is at a retreat to get better because she's been feeling a bit sick. Would't be far from the truth.
If your DD knows something's up, giving her some age-appropriate explanation will help her not to worry. I'm sure she loves her grandma and your H is keen for them to stay that way.
If your DD knows something's up, giving her some age-appropriate explanation will help her not to worry. I'm sure she loves her grandma and your H is keen for them to stay that way.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
PDF,
Good for you for reaching out and it's a great question!! Some people are tough and straight forward. Sometimes us codies need to see it in black and white.
From reading your post, how do you feel about MIL? Sounds like you have some (justified) anger towards her. I am sure she has done some horrible things to your husband and maybe you also. Do you think subconsciously that you are trying to punish MIL for all the crap she has put you all through. Some how you feel this rehab won't work like all the rest and you are ready to give up.
We are all here because we love an addict and they continue to hurt us if you let them. By you not letting your daughter see her, you are making a statement to MIL that we are tired of your BS? Maybe I am off base, not sure. (In my personal opinion, I feel your daughter will never remember anything and it won't hurt her, but that is just MO)
One thing I do know is that MIL is a child of God with a horrible disease. She obviously keeps heading to rehab because she knows she is sick. What I think you need to do is reach out to an alanon meeting. You need to educate yourself about addiction. I always tell the story of my x sister in law who told my father in law - get sober or your will never see your grandchildren again. That was a turning point in this mans life. He did and never drank again. Not saying this will happen to MIL. But you need to set up boundaries for you, not her. State this is the last time. You will be shut out of my life if you drink again. This is our way of taking power back and not dealing with this. She has to know that you will follow through, and you must, if you threaten it. She needs have know this is not a game rehab every 6 months, you need to cut her out of your life.
Please continue reading here, and on the alcoholism side. Sending hugs and support to you. I know it is hard, but at some point you need to protect you and your family from the addict, even if she is your MIL and you "love" her.
I
Good for you for reaching out and it's a great question!! Some people are tough and straight forward. Sometimes us codies need to see it in black and white.
From reading your post, how do you feel about MIL? Sounds like you have some (justified) anger towards her. I am sure she has done some horrible things to your husband and maybe you also. Do you think subconsciously that you are trying to punish MIL for all the crap she has put you all through. Some how you feel this rehab won't work like all the rest and you are ready to give up.
We are all here because we love an addict and they continue to hurt us if you let them. By you not letting your daughter see her, you are making a statement to MIL that we are tired of your BS? Maybe I am off base, not sure. (In my personal opinion, I feel your daughter will never remember anything and it won't hurt her, but that is just MO)
One thing I do know is that MIL is a child of God with a horrible disease. She obviously keeps heading to rehab because she knows she is sick. What I think you need to do is reach out to an alanon meeting. You need to educate yourself about addiction. I always tell the story of my x sister in law who told my father in law - get sober or your will never see your grandchildren again. That was a turning point in this mans life. He did and never drank again. Not saying this will happen to MIL. But you need to set up boundaries for you, not her. State this is the last time. You will be shut out of my life if you drink again. This is our way of taking power back and not dealing with this. She has to know that you will follow through, and you must, if you threaten it. She needs have know this is not a game rehab every 6 months, you need to cut her out of your life.
Please continue reading here, and on the alcoholism side. Sending hugs and support to you. I know it is hard, but at some point you need to protect you and your family from the addict, even if she is your MIL and you "love" her.
I
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 18
Thank you for your response. I have tried to set boundaries in the last but my husband won't adhere to them after we agree with them. He doesn't agree with any consequences.
I don't know. I am fed up. She has caused a lot of anguish. And has done some upsetting things to our daughter. For instance my daughter has said numerous times that Gram will not listen to me. I told her to stop tickling me and she did not listen. Addressed it and she said it was a lie. But my daughter mentions it a lot. DH sided with MIL. Constantly tells DD that she misses her so much which we have asked time and time again not to say because our daughter started crying and saying to everybody when they would leave or she would talk to them on the phone. DH & I agreed that it was making her feel emotionally responsible for her feelings. So I guess I am worried about that aspect of it.
And I am not opposed to her talking to her on the phone while she is away. I just don't know if I think the first phone call out to the real world is the right time. I would rather wait a couple of weeks. There will be a lot of things going on those first couple of weeks and I think we need to gauge things.
I am not looking for people to lash out at me. I came here asking a genuine question and yes I am concerned about her but I want her to get better more than anything to have a healthy relationship with out family. I have been there for her as support numerous times. . DH and her husband have been enabling her and making her the victim. I think this is what she might need but I know it is just the beginning.
I don't know. I am fed up. She has caused a lot of anguish. And has done some upsetting things to our daughter. For instance my daughter has said numerous times that Gram will not listen to me. I told her to stop tickling me and she did not listen. Addressed it and she said it was a lie. But my daughter mentions it a lot. DH sided with MIL. Constantly tells DD that she misses her so much which we have asked time and time again not to say because our daughter started crying and saying to everybody when they would leave or she would talk to them on the phone. DH & I agreed that it was making her feel emotionally responsible for her feelings. So I guess I am worried about that aspect of it.
And I am not opposed to her talking to her on the phone while she is away. I just don't know if I think the first phone call out to the real world is the right time. I would rather wait a couple of weeks. There will be a lot of things going on those first couple of weeks and I think we need to gauge things.
I am not looking for people to lash out at me. I came here asking a genuine question and yes I am concerned about her but I want her to get better more than anything to have a healthy relationship with out family. I have been there for her as support numerous times. . DH and her husband have been enabling her and making her the victim. I think this is what she might need but I know it is just the beginning.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
One thing about boundaries is that they are not rules to govern others behavior, but rather rules to govern our own behavior when other people act in ways we find unacceptable. Can you talk a little bit more about the boundaries you have with your husband?
I also want to say that all the frustration you are feeling around your MIL is perfectly natural. Addiction is a very selfish condition and affects everyone around those who suffer from it.
I also want to say that all the frustration you are feeling around your MIL is perfectly natural. Addiction is a very selfish condition and affects everyone around those who suffer from it.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
*Hugs*
Hi PolkaDotFever
I have a slightly different point of view.
I think you need to trust your instincts about the contact your child has with your MIL. As long as they are your INSTINCTS and not your anger.
I had a very difficult MIL.( Now XMIL ) She is is a very damaged woman. She is alcoholic on top of cluster B personality disorders, predominantly Borderline. She would occasionally display incredibly bad behavior in front of my daughter from the time she was born. Often times after an episode of absolute crazy insane behavior she would not remember her outbursts and would deny she had ever acted in such a way. My AXH's family always swept these things under the rug, as that was " just the way she was" and we were all supposed to accept it. One time I picked up my 3yr old and walked out of the house as MIL went off the deep end.. I left my shoes, my purse, DD's things, everything and carried my child barefoot to the nearby park where XAH finally came to find us and take us home. DD who was a very bright and perceptive child wanted to know what was wrong with Grandma and I simply explained that she was sick. That night MIL kept calling and screaming at us and hanging up.. demanding to know why I left.. why weren't we there for her.. she needed us.. blahh blah blah scream scream scream... finally I asked her... " Where was DD while you were screaming at NeighborLady?".... she did not say anything... I knew she was drawing a blank, and had not considered DD at all during her tirade... I then told her... "she was standing at the top of the of STAIRS.. staring in terror at her Grandma who was losing her s***!... I didn't think she or I needed to see anymore of that!"... there was a long pause and then she said " You did the right thing" and hung up on me again. The next day FIL and MIL called and invited us over, we would not go so they showed up at out house. She apologized and promised to get some help. She did try, but since she did not have the support of FIL about going to counselling she never went for long and never got better. She is still to this day a very sick , toxic woman. My XAH and I cut her off a few years before we separated (when kids were young adults)and he is still no contact with her over 6 years later.
You know your child better than anyone. You know what she is capable of understanding and processing. You know what her relationship is with her grandmother and whether or not it is healthy.
Does Grandma want to talk to her? Does she want to talk to Grandma? If so, I don't see what the harm would be. IF she asks, I do not think there is any shame in telling her Grandma doesn't feel very well so she is getting some help so she can feel better. You don't have to lie, but that doesn't mean you have to go into nitty gritty details either.
With holding your daughter from her grandmother during this time could cause issues between yourself and your husband as well as with his mother.
I understand your motherly instincts wanting to protect your child. I have been there sister. Just, don't underestimate your child or her relationship with her grandma. Most of all, trust your gut.
I trust you will do what is right for your daughter.
Hi PolkaDotFever
I have a slightly different point of view.
I think you need to trust your instincts about the contact your child has with your MIL. As long as they are your INSTINCTS and not your anger.
I had a very difficult MIL.( Now XMIL ) She is is a very damaged woman. She is alcoholic on top of cluster B personality disorders, predominantly Borderline. She would occasionally display incredibly bad behavior in front of my daughter from the time she was born. Often times after an episode of absolute crazy insane behavior she would not remember her outbursts and would deny she had ever acted in such a way. My AXH's family always swept these things under the rug, as that was " just the way she was" and we were all supposed to accept it. One time I picked up my 3yr old and walked out of the house as MIL went off the deep end.. I left my shoes, my purse, DD's things, everything and carried my child barefoot to the nearby park where XAH finally came to find us and take us home. DD who was a very bright and perceptive child wanted to know what was wrong with Grandma and I simply explained that she was sick. That night MIL kept calling and screaming at us and hanging up.. demanding to know why I left.. why weren't we there for her.. she needed us.. blahh blah blah scream scream scream... finally I asked her... " Where was DD while you were screaming at NeighborLady?".... she did not say anything... I knew she was drawing a blank, and had not considered DD at all during her tirade... I then told her... "she was standing at the top of the of STAIRS.. staring in terror at her Grandma who was losing her s***!... I didn't think she or I needed to see anymore of that!"... there was a long pause and then she said " You did the right thing" and hung up on me again. The next day FIL and MIL called and invited us over, we would not go so they showed up at out house. She apologized and promised to get some help. She did try, but since she did not have the support of FIL about going to counselling she never went for long and never got better. She is still to this day a very sick , toxic woman. My XAH and I cut her off a few years before we separated (when kids were young adults)and he is still no contact with her over 6 years later.
You know your child better than anyone. You know what she is capable of understanding and processing. You know what her relationship is with her grandmother and whether or not it is healthy.
Does Grandma want to talk to her? Does she want to talk to Grandma? If so, I don't see what the harm would be. IF she asks, I do not think there is any shame in telling her Grandma doesn't feel very well so she is getting some help so she can feel better. You don't have to lie, but that doesn't mean you have to go into nitty gritty details either.
With holding your daughter from her grandmother during this time could cause issues between yourself and your husband as well as with his mother.
I understand your motherly instincts wanting to protect your child. I have been there sister. Just, don't underestimate your child or her relationship with her grandma. Most of all, trust your gut.
I trust you will do what is right for your daughter.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 18
Yes and I have come to realize it. We have had issues where she would send me something nasty for saying no or try to guilt trip me for saying no that we were busy and couldn't get together when she wanted or so as she wanted. Then would say or send texts to DH saying there is nothing wrong with a mother and son being close like us." I never said anything about it. Or I said I will not allow her to be alone with our daughter. He gets mad. Said I don't like her doing this or that to our daughter and will not allow her to see her if she acts this way. DH says it is better for DD to have a relationship with her and tolerate it because that relationship is more important. MIL was demanding to see DD once a week and said that is too much for me even without the drinking. DH is a pleaser and wants to make everybody happy. So he would get mad at me for saying no to any request. She would always want to see DD more before/after a relapse.
And after her last relapse she told me I need to get better for DD. it didn't work. So I worry about using her as a crutch.
What boundaries do you mean with my husband? Honestly I am teyinf to work with him on establish high boundaries for when she returns.
And after her last relapse she told me I need to get better for DD. it didn't work. So I worry about using her as a crutch.
What boundaries do you mean with my husband? Honestly I am teyinf to work with him on establish high boundaries for when she returns.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 18
SBM: I have not been withholding her from MIL. There was a big blow up on Mother's Day and she yelled at me in front of DD after I got upset that DD fell and was asking for me when she was holding her and crying for Mommy. Then her husband sent me a really nasty letter and DH & I have not been in contact with him at all and don't care to. Then they were on vacation so timing never worked before she left.
As for MIL she would want to talk to DD everyday. DD does not ask to talk to her. She will bring up things that MIL does that bother her like she holds and hugs me too tight and won't let me go. So these are the things that upset me. Hearing when my DD gets upset, I address it and ask her not to do it and get told I am a horrible person and keeping MIL from her granddaughter. I have never once kept her from seeing her. DD and I are very close and she tells me these things so of course they upset me.
As for MIL she would want to talk to DD everyday. DD does not ask to talk to her. She will bring up things that MIL does that bother her like she holds and hugs me too tight and won't let me go. So these are the things that upset me. Hearing when my DD gets upset, I address it and ask her not to do it and get told I am a horrible person and keeping MIL from her granddaughter. I have never once kept her from seeing her. DD and I are very close and she tells me these things so of course they upset me.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Originally Posted by PolkaDotFever 
What boundaries do you mean with my husband? Honestly I am teyinf to work with him on establish high boundaries for when she returns.
It sounds like your husband is attempting to train your DD to be as codependent with his mother as he is, and to continue the tradition of protecting and enabling the sick person to keep the cycle of denial alive and well. It also sounds like you have a much healthier idea of what that relationship should look like, but whenever you attempt to keep the relationship in a healthier place, with your DD's autonomy respected, there's a lot of backlash from both your MIL and your husband. Is that fair?
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I would say for myself it would depend on how much contact she had with her before. Is it normal for your daughter to want to speak to her on a regular basis. If so, I would let her.
There is no need to explain that much to a 4 year old. You can let her know grandma has some health issues she needs to work on, and she had to go away for a bit to do so. That should suffice.
I understand your anxiety and obviously you are a great mom who wants to protect your child, and that is a wonderful thing. Just don't overthink it too much, let your mother in law deal with her own recovery.
I agree that it should not be her first phone call, and maybe set a boundary with her that it needs to stay light and be a phone call that does not upset your daughter. If it does, disconnect immediately.
You may look into Celebrate Recovery who normally offers free child care. A great program.
Many hugs. I am glad you are here.
There is no need to explain that much to a 4 year old. You can let her know grandma has some health issues she needs to work on, and she had to go away for a bit to do so. That should suffice.
I understand your anxiety and obviously you are a great mom who wants to protect your child, and that is a wonderful thing. Just don't overthink it too much, let your mother in law deal with her own recovery.
I agree that it should not be her first phone call, and maybe set a boundary with her that it needs to stay light and be a phone call that does not upset your daughter. If it does, disconnect immediately.
You may look into Celebrate Recovery who normally offers free child care. A great program.
Many hugs. I am glad you are here.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Beach
Posts: 1,106
Originally Posted by PolkaDotFever
As for MIL she would want to talk to DD everyday. DD does not ask to talk to her. She will bring up things that MIL does that bother her like she holds and hugs me too tight and won't let me go. So these are the things that upset me. Hearing when my DD gets upset, I address it and ask her not to do it and get told I am a horrible person and keeping MIL from her granddaughter. I have never once kept her from seeing her. DD and I are very close and she tells me these things so of course they upset me.
I would be upset if my MIL was making my child uncomfortable as well. And a matter of fact I was... when my son was little he never liked my XMIL, he didn't want to hug or kiss her or sit on her lap or play with her no matter how hard she tried (Her idea of playing was to put up her fists, stick out her lower lip and want to play fight... *eye roll*) We never forced him into it. No one should have to have physical contact with anyone if it makes them uncomfortable and in your daughters case it sounds like it actually hurts! Nor should anyone keep a child from a parent when a child is crying for that parent. That's awful behavior!
Children deserve to have their boundaries respected too!
Maybe it should be your daughter's decision whether or not she wants to talk to her Gram? Only you can know the answer to that.
I wish you strength and luck dealing with your in laws. I've dealt with this brand of crazy before and I know how difficult it is. It has been my experience that families that cling and tangle to each other the way your MIL and DH do are enmeshed and not just close. I hope your daughter manages to avoid the clutches.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
PDF,
I understand how your daughter would fee. My axh would "prey" on my younger daughter. He would be drunk and just twitch on her. My dd is 22 now and can't really stand her father. They think it is fun, while they are drunk and the victims don't understand and want nothing to do with them.
IMO I would not let your little girl alone with grandma. I'm sorry, she is an addict and has issues. How weird is that that she would say your daughter is a liar. Very sad. I understand you are trying to protect her. You are her mother, listen to your instincts. Don't let anyone talk you out of knowing what is best for her. Hugs my friend!!
I understand how your daughter would fee. My axh would "prey" on my younger daughter. He would be drunk and just twitch on her. My dd is 22 now and can't really stand her father. They think it is fun, while they are drunk and the victims don't understand and want nothing to do with them.
IMO I would not let your little girl alone with grandma. I'm sorry, she is an addict and has issues. How weird is that that she would say your daughter is a liar. Very sad. I understand you are trying to protect her. You are her mother, listen to your instincts. Don't let anyone talk you out of knowing what is best for her. Hugs my friend!!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
Now that I understand the background situation I see that there is some emotional abuse going on from Granny with your DD and I see a VERY enmeshed husband - and emotional abuse is never ok, drinking or not. I applaud you for trying to shield your DD from her and do not blame you one bit and feel horrible for you that your husband is so enmeshed, he doesn't want to rock the Mommy Boat. I agree with all the others that some firm boundaries need set for Granny's interactions with DD, with or without your husband's support in enforcing. And let him know you will be doing so. It's time for Granny to show a bit more respect to you and your wishes!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 18
Thank you for the support.
I mentioned to my husband that we could discuss the phone calls but I don't feel it is appropriate by any means for her first phone call. Plus if we have plans I am supposed to change them for a possible one minute talk? Not trying to be insensitive but I have been through hell.
Do you think Al Anon would be helpful for my DH? He flipped out and said of course she will be fine and I am overreacting.
What is Celebrate Recovery? How is it run? Similar to Al Anon?
I mentioned to my husband that we could discuss the phone calls but I don't feel it is appropriate by any means for her first phone call. Plus if we have plans I am supposed to change them for a possible one minute talk? Not trying to be insensitive but I have been through hell.
Do you think Al Anon would be helpful for my DH? He flipped out and said of course she will be fine and I am overreacting.
What is Celebrate Recovery? How is it run? Similar to Al Anon?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
I totally think it's appropriate that the first call does not include DD and totally think you do not re-arrange schedules for her calls. Sounds like she's worn the pants in the family so-to-speak for a very long time. There's a saying around here we say that if you truly want to see if the A is in true recovery or not, just tell them "NO".
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 18
I am trying to figure out those boundaries.
I just don't understand why it is so important for him for DD to talk to her even just to say hi on her first phone call she can make. He said oh I know she will be fine and good. I am trying to see the benefit of DD talking to her while at rehab since there is a high likelihood it can cause her to feel distressed.
I know from her previous rehabs that it is a long road to recovery. I am not trying to keep her away but I need firm boundaries. My husband said once before we don't need boundaries and completely disagrees with any consequences.
I just don't understand why it is so important for him for DD to talk to her even just to say hi on her first phone call she can make. He said oh I know she will be fine and good. I am trying to see the benefit of DD talking to her while at rehab since there is a high likelihood it can cause her to feel distressed.
I know from her previous rehabs that it is a long road to recovery. I am not trying to keep her away but I need firm boundaries. My husband said once before we don't need boundaries and completely disagrees with any consequences.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
