Hazelthebunny

what, in his sleep? Or I was supposed to leave it there until he woke up? No thanks...

Hazelthebunny

GOOD IDEA!!! I will. I don't think he'll mind - if anything he might appreciate it. Although, I'm hoping there won't be another opportunity, you know? Fingers crossed :-)

Ariesagain

From your earlier post...

"He got up, still asleep, and thought my bedside table was the toilet and started to pee... I heard water dripping in my dreams and I guess I was already on high alert" so I woke up like a bolt and grabbed his arm and shouted!

He woke up with a fright - he had no idea he was standing up! Fortunately it was just a little trickle so I didn't have much to clean up."

I'm trying to point out, gently, I hope, that this incident did fall on the enabling side. If he woke up enough to stop, he was awake enough to clean it up. But you did it for him, yes?

Hazelthebunny

I know what you mean, yes, but, he was not awake enough to clean. He was like semi-awake, and I wouldn't have trusted him with a roll of paper towel in that state!

FireSprite

And how many times are you willing to do it again?

That's the real question here, I think. He's already at the point of blackout peeing in your bedroom and this is a progressive disease, both with the increasingly horrible behaviors & the decreasing ability to control or regulate their drinking.

Where do you see things a year from now? 5 years?

Hazelthebunny

I would see things a year from now as us having begun to make real progress with his drinking. I see us together, and him working hard and monitoring himself... and this progress after several more honest conversations about it.

For now I'm hopeful. He's never tried to stop before, never even been approached by a friend or a loved one about it. Now that we've talked once, I need to give him a chance. I need that, for me.

JustAnotherDay

Let me be the one to tell you, I tried. I tried for five years. We were 25, he drank too much and liked to party. His drinking led to drinking every morning to get going to work. He lost his business. He got two DUIs. Sobered up a few times but ultimately I'm right back where I was 5 yrs ago. He didn't want to stop, told me that he did though. Words mean nothing without action.

All those things you listed about the "trade off" won't mean as much to you when this progresses more and more, as it will. Cuddling and making love are areas to hold back from because he smells like a drunk and can't get it to work. Just the sound of someone opening a can makes me nauseous.

I thought I could love him sober because he is hurt. He just needed someone to stand by him and help him! I was wrong. He walked all over me and as much as it hurts me I had to make him leave. 5 years of the good memories had to go down the drain. If I could replay it, I would've told him when we got back together that we could not live together and if he wanted to be with me he'd have to be sober and that I would not continue to see him if he wasn't in a program of some kind. Actions speak louder than words. Make him prove it.

kittycat3

It might be splitting hairs but I see the truly enabling behavior as what happens after he gets sober. Ensuring he gets home safely is the compassionate thing to do, but staying with him if it continues to happen is the biggest message you send that's enabling. The other stuff he probably doesn't remember.

Even if you get mad, give him the silent treatment, beg for changes - stay with him and the message is he can do that again without losing you.

Not saying this as a dig, but pure fact - Most healthy people would see this kind of behavior 1-2 times at most and after that know there was a seriously unhealthy situation going on that rendered that person incapable of being in a relationship.
I've been there - my A behavior has definitely scared off potential suitors. They wanted no part of my "hot mess"

You deserve a healthy mate that can be present to you! Don't forget that.

Ariesagain

I was rereading your OP...

"He couldn't stand any more or barely see and had reached a level of speechlessness that we all call "speaking Bob" (his name isn't Bob but you get what I mean...)"

Is this a frequent enough occurrence that you and his friends have a name for it?

AnvilheadII

hazel, the bottom line is........as long as he continues to drink, there will be consequences. unpleasant ones. and if you accompany him to any drinking event, or stick around when he is drinking, in his home or yours, you will feel impelled to "help" him.

and your help, your ACTIONS, tell him what he is doing is ok and you will be there to clean up the messes and make sure his drunk ass doesn't roll off in a ditch.

you listed many positives, the things you stick around for, but remember, they come at a cost. and you will pay that cost in one way or another.

bluelily

Yes and unfortunately if he is an alcoholic the peeing all over the place will increase, also in bed - sorry to point that out.

theuncertainty

If you need to give him that chance, you need it. That's understandable. It might be helpful to be aware, though, of the phrasing you've used (emphasis added): "us having begun to make real progress with his drinking." You can be supportive and you can make progress on not doing things that enable his drinking. He's the one who needs to make progress on not drinking. Not you and he. Him. Committing to doing the recovery work is his responsibility.

I don't write this to be mean or to devalue the support you can give. Ultimately, though, the work is his. If he's serious about it, it's his.

Please remember to take care of yourself through all of this.

Hazelthebunny

it is... it is indeed. "Have you ever seen "drunk Bob?" people asked me when I first started dating him.

Hazelthebunny

noooooo... but, I believe you. I really do.

I am still holding out hope that he can get better though. For now, I have that hope!

dandylion

HazelBunny......lol....lol....now, I get it! "speaking Bob".!
I think that character is soo funny.....probably, because I have seen it in real life so many times......
It pays to have a sense of humor....if we lose that, we are on the way down.....

He can get better..but it will be because of himself and not you......

Keep reading and learning and ...keep your sense of humor.....

dandylion

Hazelthebunny

So, news.

I spent the weekend up in QC City with him and his mum, visiting from the UK. It was a great weekend! A really sweet time. And I learned something else about him and his family..

His dad was an alcoholic. I guess no one here reading will be surprised... but any way for me it's all news. And had "addictive personality," whatever that means, around food, and certain hobbies and tinkering with boilers and such. My BF said that when he was born, his Dad quit drinking, just one day, just like that, and never took another drink in his life. No AA or anything, just willpower apparently.

He also acknowledged that he doesn't seem to be able to have "a few drinks" and that when he starts he feels like he can't stop. And he said he wants to change.

All this makes me wonder if BF would be capable of such a drastic solution?

Hazelthebunny

yeah it's like he speaks a different language after he gets all heavy-lidded :-)

"brrrzzzarnnt rfffwha you howcome you shhmmnngg"
"sorry didn't quite catch that?"
"mmmmffff ggrrahhh"
"so... zombie apocalypse?"
"yeah"

bluelily

Well, I don´t know, but the thing I do know is that my xabf´s father was also an alcoholic and decided to stop drinking (after almost 50 years of drinking heavily) just like that when he developed diabetes. He also did it just like that, without following a program.
I must confess I had high hopes that my then abf would do the same, he had his father´s example, right? And he really looks up to him.
However, when I got to know them better I realized that it didn´t matter that his father wasn´t drinking, he was still a jerk. He treated xabf´s mother like cr*p. The poor lady was bitter and resentful, and the saddest thing is that all her kids chose their father over her.
In public, they looked like a wonderful family, and this year they´re celebrating their 50th anniversary with a huge party, but in private they can´t stand each other.
Some small example: one time when we were at their house, something broke down and xabf´s mom got on all fours to fix it. No one helped her, not xabf, not his dad, not his brothers. I felt so bad for her I went to help. And while this was happening, xabf´s father took a picture of his wife, looking terribly ridiculous. And worse, he forwarded this image to all his kids and her extended family. It was so humilliating!
I always wondered why she put up with it, why she didn´t leave him ages ago.

Please learn more about your bf´s family before you get your hopes up. In the best of cases, he will most likely repeat the dynamics between his parents with you.

Liveitwell

^ um yeah-great advice. I wish I had followed that before marrying my ex. My ex turned out to be exactly like his abusive alcoholic entitled demeaning father. Exactly. How he sees his dad treat his mother , even if it's horrible, is bound to be repeated unless the behavior and drinking is arrested and he gets into recovery. People do what they know-that's their normal.

iSPAZ

Here are some things I have found are much more fun and rewarding than enabling an alcoholic: Roller skating, riding my bike, riding my motorcycle ( I found I worry much better on a Harley ), working out, killing fire ants, visiting a friend, practicing karate moves, playing the guitar, playing with the dogs, listening to oldies on youtube, bowling, playing pool, karaoke, in general taking care of myself. Enabling an alcoholic, expecting them to change and resenting it when they don't just isn't as fun as it used to be once I realized there where so many other things to occupy my time with.