Priya5

What does that mean in this case Forourgirls?

Bekindalways

"Hope is not a plan." Came out of the reality that most of us hope that our addict/alcoholics go into recovery and stop using; however, it is good to have a plan for yourself if the user dosn't go into recovery. You may decide you are okay with him drinking or if it gets too bad, you might consider other options than staying with this man.

Liveitwell

^ thanks for explaining.

Liveitwell

To further elaborate-my ex mother in law told me she spent her life-literalky-trying to get her husband to stop drinking. She hoped he would. I recall how incredibly sad I was did her hearing that. What did that hope do? Nothing good-ruined a family, tormented the kids, tore her up. That hope was destructive bc it was not reality. And in the end what happened? She got **** on-literally and figuratively. My hope for her was that she would have the strength to get help and kick her abusuve ass if a husband to the curb. I guess that hope for her was transferred to myself bc that's exactly what I did to her son. I hoped for years it would get better-in spite of the stark reality in front of me that things were not only not geting better, they were in fact getting much worse. My hope kept me stuck and only served to keep me with an abusuve alcoholic and allow my kids to be abused and witness abuse. So, when I decided to stop hoping and accept reality, I came up with a plan B. Plan B was my personal mantra of "not one more time"....and I meant it. I decided to stop hoping that he would change (he has not and will not ever-way too sick in the head-he's like a drunk five year old kid) and instead hope for a better future for myself and my girls-that one has turned into reality bc I was in complete control of it-the only thing that kept me stuck before finally getting out was hoping for him to grow the F up.
Hope is not a plan. You can hope for the best with an addict but you should plan for the worst. That is reality.
Anyway, my two cents

Priya5

I have always had a plan. If the balance swings so that the good stuff is outweighed by the bad, I will become single.

LexieCat

The problem is that for a lot of us, having a few nice "moments" here and there becomes magnified in our minds so that we hang on for those moments and push aside the bad stuff (which seems "less bad" as it becomes part of our day-to-day existence). Sometimes we don't even realize how bad things had gotten until we aren't living with it anymore.

Keep in mind, too, that as his health deteriorates (as it inevitably will), it will become progressively harder to leave. Over time, you will become more and more the caretaker, and it will feel unthinkable for you to leave.

I'm not saying you HAVE to leave--some people never do. It's your life, and your choice. But these are things you should keep in mind.

In addition, "becoming single" isn't always a piece of cake, either. Have you talked with a lawyer to find out what your legal options might be? Hopefully, with a marriage of relatively short duration, your situation isn't too terribly complicated. Still, if you own a house together or have other property/debt, there are some things you might want to do to protect yourself financially.

AnvilheadII

so you knew he had a drinking problem throughout the entire 8 years you've been together. you cancelled the wedding once due to his drinking. you then DID marry him, with his "promise" to never drink in SECRET. he has also told you that he has no plans to QUIT drinking, despite the obvious health concerns.

and......he's drinking now. in secret. which directly violates his wedding day pledge.

i see you continuing to lower the bar...to TRY and make this all ok. but i sense, since you came here, that perhaps it's just not really ok with you at all.

for his part, he has remained consistent and dedicated to his disease. that hasn't changed. soooooooo, you'll either need to figure out how to truly be OK with things as they are........or be the one to make changes. of course recovery CAN happen for anyone.....but a couple of AA meetings won't fix it. it would take a wholesale psychic change in him......the complete and utter surrender to the fact that he can NEVER drink again. not out in the open and not in secret.

Bekindalways

Well Priya , I'm afraid you are getting more harsh truths than friendly words.

On this thread there are probably more folks who found that the right thing was to leave their qualifier than folks who stayed and the qualifier went into recovery. I include myself in the leaving group but there are people whose qualifiers get sober. You might check out the newcomers thread for alcoholics. It is a reality check of what it takes to get sober even for those who desperately want it.

More importantly do every thing you can to educate yourself about relationships with alcoholics. I can't remember if anyone has suggested yet but give alanon a try, read the stickies here and find yourself a copy of Codependent No More.

Big hug to you and take care of yourself!

Priya5

As I said above, once he was sober (again). He came to me and said that he now realises that he can never touch a drop because, for him, however much he has it's never enough. He is now getting help and he usn't drinking at this time. Throughout the time we have been together, he has been off it, more than on it. Each lapse (and in the last few years, they have been lapses, not relapses), he has learned more about himself. This lapse has been the shortest. Yes, I knew the problem well when I married him. Cancelling the wedding took place when I felt that I did not want to be married to him with this problem. After a lot of soul searching, I decided that I love him unconditionally and that I will be married to him even if the booze takes over. That does not mean that I will live with him if a lapse becomes a relapse. I know my last limits. Would you have left the person you loved if it was good between you most of the time and the lapses were one a year or less and only for a matter if days? This is a genuine question.

AnvilheadII

your earlier posts did not indicate that this was a "once a year" pattern....or that he only had a couple drinks and then got back on track. you also said: any social occasion or holiday (travelling is one of our things) is ruined for me as I just watch him enjoying wrecking his health
so apologies for my misunderstanding of your situation.

however, HIS drinking, lapse or relapse, IS a problem for you. he is not drinking NOW, but was just a couple DAYS ago. yes now he is SAYING he gets it, and will saddle up and head for AA. and perhaps this IS his turning point. but he has made promises to you before......he even offered to leave, which was part of the "agreement" and you said that was not necessary.

i understand very much wanting to believe that THIS time is THE time. and i hope such is the case. and i hope you find a support system that works for you! we say often here to watch their ACTIONS, not listen to their WORDS......i can sit on my couch and promise you the moon, but unless i get busy building a rocket ship and BIG lasso, it ain't never gonna happen........

Priya5

AnvilheadII you're right if course, I did say that. Reading back, my post was a bit confused, I was very upset when I wrote it. I apologise for any confusion. He has been trying to be a social drinker for years. I have always been pretty sure it would go pear shaped in the end and it always has. The quantity would creep-up on a social occasion or holiday. I do always find it hard to watch him drink because I know that his liver is already damaged. I have known for several years that he really needed abstinence. He had a great Counsellor several years ago who agreed to talk to me with AH's consent. I told him that H wanted to try social drinking and that I was scared of him doing that. He said that he had also said that in sessions and it had been discussed. He said that had to be his choice, and that I needed to respect that, but that in his opinion, given his history of drinking, it would probably fail, that he didn't think he would ever manage social drinking without at some stage, losing control. I believed him. This guy (sadly no longer available to us) really knew his stuff.

AH has said he realises now, that he will never manage social drinking as he has tried it again, and again with the same result. Yes, I've given it chances before. Each time, he has a bit more insight. I am not ready to give-up on him yet. I am however in a different place myself. I am a natural organisor, but this time I simply don't want to be involved in this at all. As far as possible, I won't let it be my problem now. If he finds out the times of meetings and gets there, that is good, if he doesn't, well then I guess things won't go well. Although he has occasionally paid 'lip service' to it, he has never really talked seriously about abstinence before (only time will tell if he is serious now of course), he has always believed that he could be a social drinker. He can for a while, just having a glass if wine when we go out, or several and beers daily if we are on holiday (then the quantity does steadily increase) but he has actually stopped altogether for weeks at a time when we have come home. Presumably, the break in context between being abroad, on a cruise ship or whatever, and home. After a while though, he goes back to the social drinking, then the secret drinking from hidden bottles of Vodka starts some time later and all control is lost. That is the lapse I refer to. It's a lapse because I can always tell within a couple of days (three this time because my attention was taken-up by other things). If I didn't notice, and that didn't trigger remorse, I have no doubt that it would become a major relapse of the Vodka for breakfast and a couple of bottles a day variety. That has happened twice since I have known him, both times in the first two years of the relationship. As it is always comes back from it once its discovered when he feels remorse and shame. He gets defensive, then goes off and broods. I know now though that if we are due to do something like go on holiday and he has fallen off the wagon, I won't be dragged down by it. I will go alone.

I don't know if he will manage to do this, but would you leave someone you love without trying some more at this stage?

LexieCat

Personally, having watched someone nearly die (comatose for a week, delusional, having to have 40 quarts of ascites drained from his abdomen, looking like he had been dipped in yellow food coloring, with hepatic encephalopathy for weeks afterward), yeah, I'd probably leave.

I'm not you, though. But I CAN tell you, as someone with close to eight years of sobriety, myself, that what you describe in terms of the obsession with alcohol even when not drinking (which leads him to keep on trying to drink "normally) and his eventual inability to stop is pretty much the classic definition of an alcoholic. It IS progressive. And given that his health and liver are already compromised, it could go south pretty quickly.

dandylion

Pryia.....you get to make (and, are making) your own decisions.....just as he gets to, of course.
Like everyone else...lol....you take in information and process it--analyze it; integrate it....and come to your own personal conclusions.....

The way I see it, from my perspective, from what you are sharing with us....establishing your own boundaries and plans for protecting yourself as you navigate your life (day by day) is the task that you are dealing with......

Perhaps, that is what we can help you with......along with support---as we know, first hand how difficult it is to love or deal with addicts or alcoholics.....

I am glad that you are here. I am glad that you are brave enough to share your feeings and experience....and tough enough to take the "tough stuff" that we are throwing at you...lol....

I can't implore you enough to keep learning....utilizing the "stickies" on the front page...above the threads.....especially "classic Reading"....and, of course, the thousands of real life stories that are here. on the forum......

You need as much support as you can get...because this is just to hard and l onely to walk alone.....

You are not alone...that is for sure!

dandylion

jada1981

Hi Priya. I can answer your question. For the last year or so, my STBXAH has mostly been dry and by that, I mean abstaining from alcohol, but not really in recovery, so I refer to him as a dry drunk. He would go about 1.5 months, then relapse. His relapses were not multiple-day binges. He would usually drink between 4-8 beers. For me, yes, I had to leave. It mostly became a matter of me not knowing what could happen in the future and being unable to trust him. I decided I didn't want to live my life any longer wondering if he'd been drinking and/or questioning him. Now that he's moved out, I am slowly starting to realize how much anxiety I was living with never knowing if/when he was going to drink.

Priya5

Thank you for these recent comments. Sometimes I want to read more (and I will read the stickies and threads Dandylion), sometimes I get annoyed and think F**ck it! Why should I spend time like that when it's his bloody problem. I would rather be gardening, reading, walking my dog or going to the cinema!

I have reflected upon all of the things you have said here. Your words are filed away in my head.

dandylion

pyria.....I will tell you a "recovery story".......

One day, a woman was hit by a speeding car.....An ambulance was called and the medics told the woman that her leg was broken and that they were going to transport her to the hospital.....
"Absolutely not!", she told them----"Why should I have to go---take the driver----it is HIS fault!!

dandylion

LexieCat

Well, it IS his problem, but it's your problem, too, if you have to live with the fallout. A commonly-quoted story here is about the person run over by a car, who thinks it's unfair s/he has to go to the hospital, when the driver doesn't. It might not be "fair," but the fact is that someone who is injured is going to need help.

Does he have his own insurance? What would happen if he lost his job? In many places a spouse can be financially liable for the other spouse's medical bills.

It's good to keep an open mind and to keep your eyes open, too, so you can plan to protect yourself legally and financially, going forward.

ETA: LOL, Dandy beat me to it! Great minds think alike.

Priya5

He isn't blaming me or anyone/anything else.

LexieCat

I think you misunderstood. We were responding to your comment, "F**ck it! Why should I spend time like that when it's his bloody problem," not suggesting that he was blaming you. When you do the reading and the work on yourself to make your own life better, it's for YOUR benefit, not his.

dandylion

"Why should I spend my time like that (reading the stickies and threads),,,when it is his bloody problem".....
Like Lexie said.....the lady who was hit by the car is a metaphor for your own situation......

Why are we hammering on this?....because everyone who is connected to the alcoholic is hurt, also......and, they need support, help and compassion just as much as the alcoholic......

dandylion