lostangel011

As you all know I have trust issues with my AH and whenever he goes out I always suspect the worst because a few times in the past he has flirted with and exchanged numbers with other women and then lied about it till I called him on it. When I called him on it he yells at me for spying on him and he does it just to test if I am watching him (Yes my sensible rational side knows this is ********)

So today he was on his bike for 3 hours and I asked where he went. He forgot his phone well his personal phone but brought his work phone (one I cant check) so I am suspicious. He just said "around" but wouldn't give specifics. He just kept avoiding it

so here's the deal I asked again when I got home and he yelled at me that he does not like being questioned and stop questioning about his whereabouts he wasn't doing anything wrong etc etc, for me to go away and leave him alone and hes being nasty

So am I wrong for asking or should I trust my insticts that he did something no good and hes defending himself with anger by trying to make me feel like the one who is doing wrong... they do that a lot, turn it around so we are saying sorry when they **** up. Maybe he did not do anything wrong and he really does just hate feeling mistrusted... l can see how that would get annoying and maybe I am wrong for always asking.. I either need to accept that hes an insecure alcoholic that will always crave outside attention and accept that he is how he is and either deal with it our leave. Maybe its my fault for always mistrusting I would get pissed if that was done to me

I am really not sure. Lately he has been looking for fights I think he picks fights when he wants an excuse to be free and do stupid ****. I don't know. Maybe I pushed to far again. I just don't know. I know I don't trust and I guess I need to come up with an actual solution for that...... leave if I can't take it or accept it if I stay,

The drinking makes him more angry than he already his and I hate that he now takes adderall I think it makes him more manic. I am bi polar so I understand the disease but I think he has some untreated bi polar too because even during the 6 months he was sober he was a dick. The drinking just makes it chaotic and unpredictable.

Why I stay sometimes I wonder. I know I am going to be happier in the long run without him but I love him so very much and keep hoping for the best version of him to surface permanently.....

Praying

Trust is earned.

A relationship counselor would say that if one party has engaged in untrustworthy activities and wants the relationship to continue...they need to be a complete open book and accept the lack of trust they'll receive for a while, because that's what they've earned. They need to prove their way out of it.

It sounds to me like, whether or not he's doing anything untrustworthy, that he's acting in ways that do not promote transparency and honesty. And he owes you that if there's to be a relationship.

For what it's worth, I don't think he's committed to being open, honest, and accepting his personal responsibility. (Maybe that's obvious...) You will likely continue to be frustrated because I'm not sure he's willing or able to give you the trusting, respectful relationship you want.

But from the outside in it looks like you're buying into the crazy train. Only you can control when you choose to hop off...

honeypig

But you know, lostangel, there is a saying around here: Hope is not a plan. Why would this "best version" of him surface? What would make that happen? Has he shown you actions that indicate that he's working towards this "best version" of himself?

Here is another saying: When someone shows you who they are, believe them. It seems like he is showing you. And yes, you have it right--you have no choice BUT to accept that this is how he is. However, you absolutely get to say whether or not this is acceptable to you in a life partner, and whether or not this is the way you'll live your life.

So if you're asking if his actions and attitude are your fault, the answer is a resounding no. He is an adult and responsible for himself. Do remember, though, that you are equally as responsible for yourself. Don't be a volunteer for this kind of treatment if it's not what you want.

Ariesagain

I know it's really hard to get to the point where you've finally had enough, but really, disappearing for three hours and being dishonest about it is pretty mild stuff for him, isn't it?

Maybe ask yourself...is there anything about this marriage that is positive anymore? Meaning supportive, trusting, entertaining, or caring?

We keep lowering our standards and that becomes the new normal...until the next nastiness. Rinse, repeat. Until we can't even recognize how far from healthy or happy we are.

He's going to do whatever he pleases and if it gets a rise out of you, that's even better.

Sending you strength and a hug.

ladyscribbler

Hi angel. Glad you're here posting. I know that in the past, I have gotten very caught up in assigning blame as a way of avoiding the realities of my daily life. Like if I spent enough time analyzing everything it would somehow present that magic solution, the perfect thing I could say or do to make my reality match up to my hope for what I felt was the potential for him and for our relationship.
I never found that magic, and I spent a lot of time looking. I think most of us here have. After I finally left I read Lundy Bancroft's book Why Does He Do That? I was amazed to recognize so many of his traits and behaviors and so many of the dynamics in our relationship on those pages. I was rereading it recently and your description of your husband's behavior might have come right from that book.
It's a good read for anyone, but I think it might especially helpful for you to untangle those mental knots. It helped me a lot, because so much of the behavior is crazymaking, blame shifting, denial, rationalization. I used to constantly be told that everything that was wrong was somehow my fault. It's an awful feeling and an awful way to live. I'm sorry you're experiencing this.
If I may ask, what would have been the end result if you found some definitive proof that he was contacting another woman today? Did you have a boundary you planned to enforce, or was this about having a "gotcha" moment? I'm not picking on you, I promise. I used to do many similar behaviors that led to nothing but endless fighting. This sounds like one of those circular fights that never ends. I had many of those. And none of them ever ended with him admitting his wrongdoing and apologizing, though that was always kind of my secret hope.
What if you quit looking so hard at him? Took a step back and focused on something that brings you peace? You don't have to live like this.

AdelineRose

I think you know deep down that you have your answer right there. In the long run you will never be able to control him. Do you want to live a life where you constantly are suspicious of your husband and can't trust him? Can you live with a life full of doubt? Constantly interrogating him is making you miserable and making him angry and miserable.

I am not saying that your worries are unfounded. I am just saying that you have a couple options which are:

1) Trust him and let it go, you can't control him and attempting to badger him with questions. You decide you accept him and the relationship how it is and that is that.

2) You stay but continue to badger him with questions which in the end isn't improving your relationship, the trust you have isn't improving, and the marriage is going to continue to go down hill. You can't let go of your suspicions but you can't quite make yourself leave him. You are stuck in limbo and neither one of you is happy.

3) You decide the trust in the relationship is shot and that you are going to walk away. You decide that he isn't able to give you what you need out of a relationship and decide not being able to trust your partner is a deal breaker.

Only you know what is best for you, what you are willing to put up with, and what you personally consider as a deal breaker.

lostangel011

Thanks everyone. It just helps to hear rational perspective when my relationship is not ins rational place and I get all confused and fall to his anger.

The responses you give provide sanity to the insanity of my world.

I don't know yet what my long term plan is. Everytime things go well for too long his anger blows it all up. Why oh why can't there be a steady calm? Oh yeah because I'm married to a ragaholic alcoholic who has issues and blames women for all his problems. When it's good it's great, maybe that's what keeps me hanging on during the inevitable turmoil.

ladyscribbler

This isn't primarily an issue of anger. I used to think that as well. It's actually much more insidious and controlled than you might imagine. There's a very specific cycle going on here and the "good times" are a part of it.
Does he rage at his boss? His coworkers? His friends? His extended family? At other people in general? Out in public? Or is most of his "anger" reserved for you in private?

AnvilheadII

When it's good it's great

and how long does "good" last?

they say once we stop slamming our fingers in the kitchen drawer, that feels pretty good too!

overall in relationships GOOD should be the NORM, with occasional blips. and those blips should never include rage and name calling.

least

Do you believe you deserve to be treated better, with honesty and respect? He's giving you neither. I hope you can find some peace of mind.

Liveitwell

I agree with everything said so far. That old saying....trust is hard earned, but easily broken. You don't trust him-and that's your problem but it's his fault. He isn't trustworthy. But, it's up to YOU to decide if that's ok or not. You deserve so much better than this. Hugs and peace to you tonight.

Hawkeye13

Yes, I wouldn't trust what he said or did at this point either.

You have to do what feels right for you, but I find my "gut" tells me the truth
so if you are suspicious, most likely there is good reason.

Yoga

Unfortunately the "best" version of him won't surface permanently.

This is him and he'll probably get worse as he goes along.

And you are right, they do like to pick fights when they are going to do something crappy. Gives them "justification".

Take care of you.

redatlanta

Not in defense of the Alcoholic but.....yes the questioning, and most likely your tone in asking where he has been is parental in nature. You asked, he said "around". You asked again, he got pissed. You go through his phone. You'd go through his other one if you had the passcode. When you catch him exchanging numbers he uses the oldest excuse in the book that he is "testing you to see if you are snooping". Sigh........

Its not right for him to do what he is doing.
Its not right for you to do what you are doing.

Its an extremely unhealthy relationship. What is the benefit here for either of you? Cat and Mouse games? He is going to do what he wants including messing around with other women. You are going to sit at home and play Warden, worrying. Sick you your stomach. Blamed for issues.

I either need to accept that he is an insecure alcoholic that will always crave outside attention and accept that he is how he is and either deal with it our leave. Rationalizing. He has/is being unfaithful whether physical or just toying with it. Not about insecurity. Its about who he IS - The acceptance is accepting that he is a cheater, and is unfaithful in your marriage (getting girls numbers is being unfaithful no matter what comes of it).

I don't think its unusual for spouses or partners to know what the other is doing. When my husband goes out on his motorcycle I ask how long he will be gone, NOT where is he going. When I head out in the morning to work my husband may ask if I am onsite or in the studio. but not exactly where I am going. If I go shopping he will ask what time will I be home, not what stores I am going to. We don't give specific itineraries of our day much beyond when we will be home which is a normal courtesy. We have advised before and will do so again, stop with the snooping. Stop asking him where he has been (as if he were detailed that he would actually be telling the truth). Just stop it. You are feeding into him - he wants you to ask cause every single time its you who is the bad guy. Yeah, snooping is bad. It will destroy a relationship. Aside from trying to control and manage his philandering (which you can't) - he doesn't treat you well. Beyond how he treats you doesn't matter what he is doing - he is a "dick" by your own admission. What more do you need as evidence?

Refiner

What LadyScribbler said... You've heard of the phrase "the CYCLE of abuse"?

Liveitwell

Yep. Exsctly. My ex was the same-didbt rage at anyone but me. Didbt abuse anyone but me and his kids. In private. That is much deeper than just anger issues....it's abuse and major other issues. What you're dealing with is abuse, not anger-you need to see that important difference.

lostangel011

Finn you should say you only ask when he will be back. I ask that too but I get yelled at and berated for making him feel like he has to punch a clock. He says he can't enjoy himself because he's so worried about needing to be back in time before I start calling incessantly. I hate that he feels a need to be gone for extended lengths of time without the courtesy of letting me know when he'll be home. He's extremely selfish and I'm alwAys in fear of some sort

Liveitwell

Hun, what you're describing is the selfishness of A's....they wabt to do whatever they wabt to do, whenever it pleases them, regardless of anyone else. Just to give you a giggle, many many times when I got onto my ex about "hey, dude, you said you'd be home to ....(fill in the blank)....I was drubkenly told that his mommy didn't make him call or come home at a specific time so I should just be happy he was coming home at all. I'm not kidding. It was like arguing with a toddler. My point is, you're arguing with a selfish child....that's the mentality of As.

You don't have to have this in your life.

redatlanta

He lives like a single man.
You live like a married woman.

This does not compute.

bluelily

My xabf used to tell me he never answers any questions whenever I innocently pronounced any sentence that ended with an interrogation mark. Things as bland as How was your day? or What was your cat´s name? It was really insane.
Of course I tried to reason with him, told him questions and answers are a normal part of human dialogue, but then he said No, healthy dialogue consists of the exchange of assertive sentences and that is how one shares points of view. He was very obstinate in this, and this conversation always ended in him getting mad at me.
After a while, I told him I didn´t answer questions either just to spite him, and then he would get mad again and blurt out Just answer the question!
In the end, I began to shut down and didn´t bother to communicate much at all with him.

So you see there was no way to have any healthy communication with him. In the beginning I tried to rationalize this "peculiarity" of him, figured he had been interrogated by his ex wife too often and had bad memories of that. But then I began to look at these scenes from the outside, as if I was looking at a play in which I had no part myself. And what I saw made everything clear: there was a kind, patient woman and an irrational, angry man who was being a complete d*ck with her. There was no way around it, it was plain wrong. And why didn´t she just stand up and walk away from all his BS? Why did she put up with him? I would like her so much more if she just left!
So yeah, it really helps to picture yourself as an actor in a play, to look at yourself from outside. I like myself much better now that I left these idiotic dynamics. It took a while for me to get used to the idea that I did the right thing for me, but it´s such a relief! I hope you can see that for yourself as well.