Kboys

Hi Friends,
Been a little while since I’ve posted much, but I’m still here reading.
Life is good. My boys (3 and 4) are happy and healthy. I am blessed, and I am grateful.

When I was with AH, I would fantasize about what it would be like when he was finally gone. I fantasized about all the free time I would have without having to deal with him and try to keep him happy. I’d have my evenings after the kids fall asleep to watch whatever I wanted to… My lunch breaks free to go to the gym or hit up the secondhand stores. And things would just be mellow and peaceful and carefree. Just me and my boys.

And things ARE good, really, I’m not complaining, but man… I’m still exhausted. I do not have the time to do the things I want to do on my lunch break, because I’m going to the grocery store, or going home to clean up last night’s mess because I didn’t get a chance to do it last night because I was too tired after the kids fell asleep… By the time they fall asleep, almost always, I am just done. I barely have the will to wash my face and brush my teeth.
During the times AH was sober, he actually was quite helpful with stuff around the house… and the kids listened to him. They don’t listen to me so well all the time. I get so tired of telling them the same things over and over… and their screaming, and fighting with each other over every little thing…. I don’t want to sound like I’m complaining. I know it’s life… it’s motherhood…. But it’s just really hard sometimes.
I’m thinking of hiring a housekeeper to come in once a week. I think that would help me…

AH spent six weeks in jail in February and March. Protective Order has been modified to “friendly contact” for child related communication.

But I confess, since he got out of jail, we have been talking about more than just the kids.
He’s sober, as far as I can tell. He says he is. He’s going to AA, to Church, and his Court-ordered DV and DUI classes. He’s not complaining about it. He talks about how much he’s getting out of it, and he feels he’s on the right path now. He has expressed his remorse for everything that has happened, repeatedly, in a way I always hoped he would, but never actually thought he would. It seems like he “gets it”.

He’s staying with his mother 90 minutes away. He's doing handyman/maintenance jobs under the table. He comes over two days per week for his classes. He stays with his brother, and he sees the boys then. He says he wants to come back. He wants to “be a family”, but he’s not pressuring me for anything. He’s not trying to get into my personal business, not asking me if I’m seeing anyone (I’m not), or accusing me of it.

Basically, he’s doing everything I always wanted him to do, and I believe he’s sincere.

I know it has been a very short period of time. I’m not considering having him come home…. but I feel myself weakening. When he's sober, and saying all the right things... he's pretty dang charming. The man I fell in love with.
I know I have lots of work to do on ME still.

I wonder, though… I mean, alcoholics DO recover. It is possible. Many stories of recovery here…
But he was abusive. He was so mean and so scary, so many times. And he blatantly cheated on me, and lied…
I have gone back and read my lists of the things he did. It’s disturbing. I can’t think about that stuff without crying. I still have so much anger and resentment.
If I were to let him come back in the future… even if he never drank again and we both worked on our own recovery … I don’t think I could ever love him again in the way I used to. He hurt me so bad.

So I don't know what I'm looking for as far as responses... I'm sure I'll get some flak for this, and some "what the f**k are you thinking?" posts... and that's okay I can handle it.

I am being cautious. I know what he's capable of, and that the switch can flip any day.

Just writing it out helps ... thanks for reading.
I appreciate you all being here for me.

Wisconsin

I say...one step at a time. All of the "what if" questions about whether you can forgive don't need to be answered now. Start with whatever your sobriety/recovery boundary is. 12 months of solid sobriety and recovery work? If that's what it is, then take comfort in that. Give him the space during that time so that you can observe. He may be saying all the right things now. And so far, his actions *seem* to be backing up his words. If it were me, I would want to see 12 uninterrupted months of sane, sober recovery (post jail release--not counting his time in jail) before I even entertained the idea of forgiveness in a way that involved resuming a relationship. And...spend those 12 months continuing with your own therapy and recovery, including regular reading of those lists you made. He did and said some horrible, horrible things, K.

Much love to you and your boys, K.

Liveitwell

Hugs, K. I second FS's words-a LONG period of actions backing up words....before ever entertaining anything with him. Didn't he threaten to kill you?! He did some very scary, insane things-I'm just concerned about you and kiddos....

Kboys

Thanks W and FOG
you're right, one step at a time.
He absolutely did some terrifying things... Lots of them. I haven't forgotten.
But I agree that reading my lists is necessary.
I am being safe... I don't let him in the house, and I absolutely wouldn't let him see the boys or talk to any of us if I suspected he was drinking.

LexieCat

Remember Jerry Maguire? "Show me the money." It's not something you need to say to him, but say it to yourself. And, of course, we aren't talking money.

Yes, people DO recover from alcoholism. And SOME people (fewer, but they do exist) recover from a pattern of abusive conduct. When such people really do change--for good--it pervades every aspect of their being. It's obvious, in all kinds of situations, that they are no longer the same person. It takes TIME, and hard work, and it takes even longer for new ways of living to become sufficiently ingrained that they are "safe" to live with.

So maintain that skeptical mind-set. You don't have to predict failure, but you can hold off on lowering your guard, and your boundaries (which are there to keep you safe) until you can be CERTAIN that you are. And, as you noted, even if he DOES become that person (which would make him a dream to co-parent with), it doesn't mean you are obligated in ANY way to take him back into your life. It's perfectly possible to respect, and even love (on some level) another person, and still have so much water under the bridge that you won't ever really feel safe with him, or feel the same way you did when you first fell in love. And that's OK. It doesn't mean there's anything "wrong" with either of you (assuming he really DOES change).

For everyone's sake, let's hope he does have that miraculous recovery. Just don't get ahead of yourself. Keep the focus on you and your kiddos.

Hugs,

redatlanta

Hi Kboys and so glad to see you hear.

Yes people do recover, not sure about the abuse part but Lexie is the expert on that.

It sounds like you are overwhelmed with a lot, perhaps too much to be thinking clearly about what your correct path is. It must be a lot to be a single parent to two children and working full-time.

My suggestion would be a couple of things. For me, with this history, I would need to see a solid year of recovery. Is his AA court ordered, and does he have a bracelet on, or is he being drug tested? If so I would need a year past that in order to reconsider.

He would also need to clean up whatever is not. You have mentioned I think on more than one occasion that he had been arrested. ALL that would need to be handled ALL OF IT. You also mentioned that he is working under the table - is there some reason for that? I'd have to see legal full-time working.

As far as the cheating if you can get over it you can. It takes a long time. I'd have to be able to trust him to re-engage.

I'd also have to know for sure this all wasn't some huge quack fest. I don't believe its been enough time, but I think you know that.

I also advise that you make another thread completely unrelated to this regarding how to handle the situations that you are facing. Many here have been in the same situation, some with more kids. I think you would get some really helpful tips. I would help with that but I don't have any. I can tell you how to handle raising a young cat (we just got a new baby).

Stick around here we missed you!

tigerlily1

I am still in my own mess so not a lot of advice to give. Think you have already got some great advice above. My only thought reading was just do one day at a time!! I find when I am exhausted be it emotionally or physically focusing on today only rather then worrying about the future helps. Also think getting a house keeper if you can swing it is a great idea!! You are doing great!!

Eddiebuckle

Kboys,

Thanks for sharing, it sounds like you're doing pretty well. The truth is, change is hard, and recovery isn't all about pink clouds - its about growth.

I come from the other side of the fence, and one thing my sponsor told me that has always stuck with me: "Don't ever forget your last drink, or you may not have had it yet." Don't forget what it was like, it can be easy to minimize how bad things were once we have been separated from it by time or space. I would add that some of the wreckage of our past is irreparable, the best we can do is make peace with it and move on without regret or resentment.

Take your recovery one day at a time, and learn to love yourself as imperfect as you may be. If we were perfect, there would be no reason to live, learn and grow.

Good luck!

Kboys

Thanks everyone! I appreciate all the comments.

Red, thanks for missing me I hope you're having fun with your new baby cat.
There's still a lot he needs to complete as far as his legal stuff goes. He doesn't have any more jail time to serve but he has to complete his DUI and DV classes, and I think some community service. AA is not court ordered. And he's on probation for at least three more years in 2 counties... And now he's living at his mom's in a third county. I don't know why they can't transfer it to just one... ? Not sure if he's tried to get that done or not? He doesn't have a bracelet and doesn't test but he has an IID he has to blow into before he drives, so at least I know for sure he's not drinking and driving. He checks in weekly with probation officer in my county.
He's working under the table temporarily, just because its private work that he could get through people his mom knows..he talks about starting his own business for that type of work.... But its just a lot if talk right now...He has also applied for a job at the lumber mill here in my town, but honestly I hope he stays away at his mom's. I like that he's just coming here a couple days per week.

He's never really had steady employment, so yeah, id definitely like to see that before I considered reconciling.

Eddie, thank you. I appreciate your words! It's true, it's easy to minimize how bad things were once some time has passed, especially since my recovery is not exactly how I had fantasized it would be... Ugh, I know I still have a lot of work to put in on myself... And it's all a bit overwhelming, but I'm working on it!

Thanks tigerlily, yep, one day at a time... Sometimes I get ahead of myself..
I made a couple calls about a house cleaner. Don't really know if I could swing it, but I do think it would be worth it. I'm definitely not a "neat freak" by any means, but I just feel so much more at ease when things are at least somewhat organized and clean! I hope you are doing okay, tigerlily

And Lexie... I'm going to picture Tom Cruise , "show me the money!" Now every time I talk to AH

Thanks all, it's nice to be here

sauerkraut

Hi kboys,
It's nice to see you again. I just wanted to recommend an excellent book on how to get children to behave. It's called "1 2 3 Baby Magic," and was recommended to me by a wonderful preschool teacher when my children were 2 and 4 and ruling my house. It really helps, and all you need to read are the first few chapters to get the gist of it. Take care--

maia1234

Kb,
Glad to hear you are doing good. My dd is a 4th grade teacher and she complains all the time that she says the same thing over and over. I tell her to keep doing it, one day they will get it. I know it gets old, but mom's need to keep doing it, and they will get it, eventually.

I am so happy for your x that he is working his program. I agree with everyone else that more will be revealed. You don't need to make any decisions today, take your time and let everything fall into place the way God had intended. You know that it is not our way, but his way.

Hugs my friend, keep your head up and see where life takes you!!

LexieCat

See, there's really NO reason you need to know all this detail about his probation, his employment, his prospects, etc. That just keeps the focus on him. You're watching his every move to see if he's "improving."

Recovery isn't linear for anyone. Even if he IS getting better, there will be some spiraling and circling, just as there is for us. And the closer you watch, the more likely it is that you will be thinking, every day, "Are we there yet?" That little voice like the annoying kid bouncing up and down in the back seat.

I know it's hard, but try to rip your eyes and your brain away from what he's doing. If he effs up, you will know it soon enough. And as long as you remain apart for a good, long time, you will know WAY before he's back under your roof. Try to keep things on a "need to know" basis. You don't need to know the details of what he's doing, as long as you are careful of your own safety and the kids' safety.

dandylion

Kboys.....I remember, so well, the days of having 3 little kids....as a divorced single parent! It is like shoveling snow while it is still snowing!
It does get easier.......yours are still at an age when they need such constant supervision....
as they get a bit o lder, they can take on a lot more of responsibility and don't need as m uch helicoptering from you.....

A question....do y ou have an automatic dishwasher? If not....I suggest that you do anything you can to get one! What a difference that one thing can make!

Yes! do get some household help if you can possibly swing it! Even someone who will vacume the house every week makes a big difference.

The fighting?! LOL....The thing that I remember is that they tend to "fight" when your attention is turned away from them...when you are trying to do something else....
I learned a few tricks. first of all, I did as many activities as I could do with them... It also helped to separate them and have one of them "help" me do something...like, maybe, folding the clothes or pick up the toys....
There are lots of techniques that help....
You will also learn a lot of organizational tricks and short cuts about the housework load as you go along.......
I promise....

Don't allow your exhaustion to lure you into thinking that it would be so much easier if you had him back to help......
I promise you that that is a fantasy dream......

dandylion

Kboys

Thanks for the book recommendation sauerkraut... I'll check it out. Yep, "ruling my house" is a good way to put it. Ugh. I don't like to admit it, but it's true!

Thanks maia.... Yeah, I actually do think they're hearing what I'm saying... I hear DS4 echoing me, and telling his brother things that I tell him, like "we don't hit people... you have to be gentle with the cats..." And then he'll turn around and smack his brother or pull the cat's tail...
He's also sure to tell every person we see when we go for a walk that "you have to stay on the side of the road and make sure you watch out for cars." Which is pretty cute... people get quite a kick out of him.
So I guess all my over and overs are in there somewhere.... they're still little, and I suppose it will all click eventually.

Thanks for keeping me on track Lexie... you're right.
Although of course I would like to see him continue to do well and succeed in his recovery, it was almost easier for me and my recovery when I knew he was still drinking, and when he was in jail, and he wasn't trying to see the kids...

Now... even though I'm not considering having him come back at this time... even entertaining the thought that MAYBE... at some point WAY down the line, it could work... seems to be derailing me a bit.
Working on bringing the focus back to me and my recovery

Thanks dandy! Yes, definitely like shoveling snow while it's still snowing... or running a never ending marathon!
Yep... the fighting usually begins when I'm trying to get something done. They could be fine playing on their own... and then as soon as I start to unload the dishwasher (which yes, I do have one, and am very grateful for it!) I hear screams and "Mommy!!!!" Of course, the long periods of silence are even more disconcerting... because then I know they're up to no good
Thanks for the tips.

AnvilheadII

AH spent six weeks in jail in February and March. Protective Order has been modified to “friendly contact” for child related communication.

so if i have the MATH right here, he's been out of jail for a MAXIMUM of 6 WEEKS. still has a Protective Order, and is court ordered to take DUI and Domestic Violence classes. AND is on probation for 2 to 3 YEARS. he is still the man who abused you, terrified you, and cheated on you. six weeks or six years ain't gonna change that.

sure he's on best behavior right now......because he is on watch from every direction.....he's living at mommy and daddy's house and has so far only managed to pick up some side jobs. he has yet to secure full time employment and then maintain that employment long term.

but he is saying those pretty words......SAYING pretty words.....and they are working.....chipping away at your resolve. you are beginning to envision MAYBE......

gotta hand it to the guy, he's good.....with absolutely NOTHING to offer, with a history that should assure that reconciliation would NEVER happen, you are being dazzled by his CHARM. which is how you got into this mess in the first place......

i don't mean to be harsh, kboys.....just stating the fact ma'am.

redatlanta

I think your thought process is very common, its applying the logic that the drinking person is different than the sober person.

Of course there are differences, but they are the SAME person. The guy was extremely abusive and scary at times. I just don't think that's all alcohol my friend.

I suggest you knock "what if" completely out of your head. Also, it would be good if you could limit your conversations with him to the kids.

AnvilheadII

AH is doing well. Two months sober with one manageable "slip." Still no AA, counseling, or any other program.

Our relationship is feeling better. I'm starting to feel more and more comfortable with him again which has allowed me to talk to him about things and get a lot off my chest without fear of his inappropriate responses. We can now have "normal" conversations. We still have a loooong way to go, but it feels good for now and we have made progress. ...kboys, 12-3-2104.

But I confess, since he got out of jail, we have been talking about more than just the kids.
He’s sober, as far as I can tell. He says he is. He’s going to AA, to Church, and his Court-ordered DV and DUI classes. He’s not complaining about it. He talks about how much he’s getting out of it, and he feels he’s on the right path now. He has expressed his remorse for everything that has happened, repeatedly, in a way I always hoped he would, but never actually thought he would. It seems like he “gets it”.

He’s staying with his mother 90 minutes away. He's doing handyman/maintenance jobs under the table. He comes over two days per week for his classes. He stays with his brother, and he sees the boys then. He says he wants to come back. He wants to “be a family”, but he’s not pressuring me for anything. He’s not trying to get into my personal business, not asking me if I’m seeing anyone (I’m not), or accusing me of it.

Basically, he’s doing everything I always wanted him to do, and I believe he’s sincere. kboys 4-26-2016

sound familiar???

Kboys

Thanks red and anvil..

He IS good! Dammit he's good

Yeah, I definitely separate the sober him from the drinking him... That's always been a struggle for me... Why I was always so quick to forgive him in the past... It wasn't really MY AH who stayed out all night with other women, or who pushed me up against the wall with the babies in my arms, or called me a f####ng c##t, that was his alcohol induced other personality. He would never do that to me. He loves me... I know in my head this is not the case... And in fact, toward the end, he was doing a lot of that stuff sober, just not as scary... But it's still been hard for me to really know and believe in my heart... I want to see the good in him because it IS there... Along with all the demons.

I know I need to stop talking to him... It's not doing me any good.
I'm truly not considering trying it again, but I am allowing myself to fantasize about it happening in the future.

I guess with all of his charming me and saying all the right things.. And the kids pushing me ty limits ( this morning they actually got up on top of my car... An SUV.,. And would not get down. They stripped naked and cracked up when I tried to get them down. I had to fake calls to Santa and to the police in order to get them down) yeah, it's all just getting to me and wearing me down... But it will be okay, I know it will.
I can't go back to the way things were with AH.
Thanks for the reminders.

AnvilheadII

where do you think those kids GOT that behavior???? HE did that....they are only demonstrating what they learned from one of the two people for whom their very survival rests............they are mimicking daddy...........off the charts, rebellious, defiant, ANGRY......

it HAS to stop. for those kids to have ANY chance of reclaiming a normal childhood that will allow them to develop into productive, responsible people who respect others, it HAS to stop NOW.

Kboys

Thanks anvil,
I'm not disagreeing with you, but in their defense, and mine, they're not usually THAT bad. That was definitely the most extreme act of defiance and ridiculousness they have performed thus far...