Holding firm to boundaries is HARD
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Holding firm to boundaries is HARD
xAH's behavior this weekend was one series of boundary pushing behaviors after another. All of them designed to elicit a reaction from me. While it did not work, he did hurt my kids a LOT and I'm struggling today with what to do next.
I am striving to hold firm to my boundaries but I am increasingly scared and unsettled.
Nothing he's done (according to the police) rises to the level of a criminal act, at least not yet.
The more I hold him to boundaries, the more (as expected) he's ramped up his behavior in response.
This weekend alone:
1) xAH followed me from my house, to my friends house (whose dog I was walking), then was waiting at the field where I took the kids for their sports practice and engaged with them. He is NOT allowed to do this without FIRST demonstrating sobriety at the police station per the court order. So, I asked him, while recording him, to leave. He refused. I called the police. He then left. I spoke to a VERY nice officer to follow up, who told me I could seek a RO, but that it's all plausibly deniable on xAH's part and without his making threats, it's his word vs. mine.
2) At the kids sporting event (game) on Sat, xAH's mother stood right by me, moving to stand within 5 feet of me the entire time, even when I moved. At the end of the game, she tried to take the girls and played it off as "oh I did not know the schedule and I didn't think there was any harm in taking them to lunch". It was NOT her son's parenting time and I made that clear and left.
3) Saturday night xAH did not show up to take the kids for his overnight.
4) Sunday morning xAH contacted me to say he was waiting at the police station for me to drop the kids with him for his parenting time. He CLEARLY is trying to make it appear I am withholding the kids from him. So I dropped them off, with their tickets and one for xAH for a magic show that they've been over the moon excited to attend and which xAH said he would take them to IF I bought the tix.
5) I dropped the kids off, and reminded xAH that DD10 had a race with her running team that am (she was dressed for it). He ignored me. And ultimately he refused to allow her to attend. I learned this late in the day and DD10 was irate with ME because of it.
6) Sunday afternoon xAH texted me pretending to have only 2 tickets, not 3 and said he would drop the kids off ALONE at the show and expected me to accompany them (alleging I had the 3rd ticket). I told him I would notify Child Protective Services if he truly left them unattended. Given his history of doing so, I went to the event to ensure they were there supervised and true to form, he was sitting in his car, and the girls were standing alone by the venue door.
I went to the girls and told them to go inside with their tickets and THANKFULLY a state trooper was at the door. I asked for him to escort me to xAH's car and I shared xAH's text with him that he was leaving the girls alone. The Trooper asked xAH if he was declining to remain with his kids during his parenting time. xAH tried to bluster and posture and blame me and the Trooper stated that I was acting as a parent ought to and ensuring my kids were safe. He again asked xAH to confirm whether he was staying or declining his parenting. xAH said he was leaving and the Trooper told him NOT to return to the school. The Trooper then got a ticket for me and I stayed with the kids at the show.
The Trooper ALSO gave me his name and direct number and told xAH and I that if xAH ever tries to allege that I interfered with his time or makes allegations against me, that he will testify on my behalf.
He was a SAINT (the Trooper).
I have had virtually NO contact with xAH other than dropping off, picking up and responding to his threats to leave the kids alone.
The less contact I have, the less I react (despite how much I want to) the more insane he is.
DD8 told me teary eyed last night when I tucked her into bed, that "Daddy telled me you are sick in the head and we need to run away from you". And DD10, also crying, told me that her father had told her she was lying about having a road race and that "girls who lie have to be punished" and then refused to give her lunch.
It is REALLY hard to not be freaking out about all of this and I feel like my hands are fairly tied....
I am striving to hold firm to my boundaries but I am increasingly scared and unsettled.
Nothing he's done (according to the police) rises to the level of a criminal act, at least not yet.
The more I hold him to boundaries, the more (as expected) he's ramped up his behavior in response.
This weekend alone:
1) xAH followed me from my house, to my friends house (whose dog I was walking), then was waiting at the field where I took the kids for their sports practice and engaged with them. He is NOT allowed to do this without FIRST demonstrating sobriety at the police station per the court order. So, I asked him, while recording him, to leave. He refused. I called the police. He then left. I spoke to a VERY nice officer to follow up, who told me I could seek a RO, but that it's all plausibly deniable on xAH's part and without his making threats, it's his word vs. mine.
2) At the kids sporting event (game) on Sat, xAH's mother stood right by me, moving to stand within 5 feet of me the entire time, even when I moved. At the end of the game, she tried to take the girls and played it off as "oh I did not know the schedule and I didn't think there was any harm in taking them to lunch". It was NOT her son's parenting time and I made that clear and left.
3) Saturday night xAH did not show up to take the kids for his overnight.
4) Sunday morning xAH contacted me to say he was waiting at the police station for me to drop the kids with him for his parenting time. He CLEARLY is trying to make it appear I am withholding the kids from him. So I dropped them off, with their tickets and one for xAH for a magic show that they've been over the moon excited to attend and which xAH said he would take them to IF I bought the tix.
5) I dropped the kids off, and reminded xAH that DD10 had a race with her running team that am (she was dressed for it). He ignored me. And ultimately he refused to allow her to attend. I learned this late in the day and DD10 was irate with ME because of it.
6) Sunday afternoon xAH texted me pretending to have only 2 tickets, not 3 and said he would drop the kids off ALONE at the show and expected me to accompany them (alleging I had the 3rd ticket). I told him I would notify Child Protective Services if he truly left them unattended. Given his history of doing so, I went to the event to ensure they were there supervised and true to form, he was sitting in his car, and the girls were standing alone by the venue door.
I went to the girls and told them to go inside with their tickets and THANKFULLY a state trooper was at the door. I asked for him to escort me to xAH's car and I shared xAH's text with him that he was leaving the girls alone. The Trooper asked xAH if he was declining to remain with his kids during his parenting time. xAH tried to bluster and posture and blame me and the Trooper stated that I was acting as a parent ought to and ensuring my kids were safe. He again asked xAH to confirm whether he was staying or declining his parenting. xAH said he was leaving and the Trooper told him NOT to return to the school. The Trooper then got a ticket for me and I stayed with the kids at the show.
The Trooper ALSO gave me his name and direct number and told xAH and I that if xAH ever tries to allege that I interfered with his time or makes allegations against me, that he will testify on my behalf.
He was a SAINT (the Trooper).
I have had virtually NO contact with xAH other than dropping off, picking up and responding to his threats to leave the kids alone.
The less contact I have, the less I react (despite how much I want to) the more insane he is.
DD8 told me teary eyed last night when I tucked her into bed, that "Daddy telled me you are sick in the head and we need to run away from you". And DD10, also crying, told me that her father had told her she was lying about having a road race and that "girls who lie have to be punished" and then refused to give her lunch.
It is REALLY hard to not be freaking out about all of this and I feel like my hands are fairly tied....
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Join Date: Jan 2015
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Your ex is in a class all of his own. This is disgusting and disturbing-although not surprising. Can you get into court and get all this in front of a judge?
Very big hugs to you....I'm so incredibly sorry this evil person is their "father".
Very big hugs to you....I'm so incredibly sorry this evil person is their "father".
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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Oh my gosh WTBH. This sounds horrible.
I can see that all this stuff he is doing is so darn PETTY but not really criminal. So like you say, it ties your hands because you can't really do anything to stop it. When your kids are involved it just has to break your heart!!!
Please stay strong, keep documenting and take care of your self and kids.
I can see that all this stuff he is doing is so darn PETTY but not really criminal. So like you say, it ties your hands because you can't really do anything to stop it. When your kids are involved it just has to break your heart!!!
Please stay strong, keep documenting and take care of your self and kids.
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Join Date: May 2010
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Oh man. I am alarmed for you. Thank goodness for that trooper. Have you thought about calling the trooper and seeing what help you may be able to elicit about all of this?
I have a relative who is a Trooper. They have access to all sorts of people and programs you would not have any idea they even participate in. I would definitely give that a try.
I think that these things are definitely contempt of court? I know my divorce decree states my X cannot w/hold social and sporting events. And withholding food as a punishment? It sounds like his wonderful mother is just as bad as him.
Hugs, so many hugs to you my dear friend. You are your children are in my thoughts and prayers.
I have a relative who is a Trooper. They have access to all sorts of people and programs you would not have any idea they even participate in. I would definitely give that a try.
I think that these things are definitely contempt of court? I know my divorce decree states my X cannot w/hold social and sporting events. And withholding food as a punishment? It sounds like his wonderful mother is just as bad as him.
Hugs, so many hugs to you my dear friend. You are your children are in my thoughts and prayers.
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Originally Posted by hopeful4 
Oh man. I am alarmed for you. Thank goodness for that trooper. Have you thought about calling the trooper and seeing what help you may be able to elicit about all of this?
I have a relative who is a Trooper. They have access to all sorts of people and programs you would not have any idea they even participate in. I would definitely give that a try.
I think that these things are definitely contempt of court? I know my divorce decree states my X cannot w/hold social and sporting events. And withholding food as a punishment? It sounds like his wonderful mother is just as bad as him.
Hugs, so many hugs to you my dear friend. You are your children are in my thoughts and prayers.
I have a relative who is a Trooper. They have access to all sorts of people and programs you would not have any idea they even participate in. I would definitely give that a try.
I think that these things are definitely contempt of court? I know my divorce decree states my X cannot w/hold social and sporting events. And withholding food as a punishment? It sounds like his wonderful mother is just as bad as him.
Hugs, so many hugs to you my dear friend. You are your children are in my thoughts and prayers.
He is on vacation (he stated in email) this week and it appears his plan is to lurk around and make life HELL all week.
I do plan to call the Trooper and report xAH to Child Protective Services as documentation but I'm so unsettled I need to wait and call when I am calmer. I think the Trooper was willing to be of help because for once I kept my mouth shut, was calm despite feeling like crying and I let xAH talk and make a fool of himself... Less talking and less defending on my part worked well.
If I call right now I will be a blithering mess.
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I think that is a wise choice. Get yourself together. Make a list of what you want to say. Leave out small things that are not violations, but bad parenting choices. Leave those for when you are interviewed. Telling your child to run away and having his mother there to try and get them to go with her? That is alarming in that what is he trying to do? I know in my discussions with a Trooper, there are things that I did not have trip me off to a big deal that they see in a different light, and that's good.
He will hang himself in all of this eventually. He's trying to wear you down. You are forming boundaries so he is trying to use your children to do it. It's sick and pathetic. Don't break. You can do this. Just keep remembering if he breaks you, the kids ultimately suffer.
I cannot even imagine. I think you need protection for yourself. Do you carry a taser or have protection for yourself? Don't freak, this is something I think all single women should do, not just you.
I also would have some tracking device on your kids besides a cell phone, which he could remove. My mom has put some sort of GPS in my dad's shoes (he has dementia), that might be a good idea. Just a thought.
Sending lots of love and light to you.
He will hang himself in all of this eventually. He's trying to wear you down. You are forming boundaries so he is trying to use your children to do it. It's sick and pathetic. Don't break. You can do this. Just keep remembering if he breaks you, the kids ultimately suffer.
I cannot even imagine. I think you need protection for yourself. Do you carry a taser or have protection for yourself? Don't freak, this is something I think all single women should do, not just you.
I also would have some tracking device on your kids besides a cell phone, which he could remove. My mom has put some sort of GPS in my dad's shoes (he has dementia), that might be a good idea. Just a thought.
Sending lots of love and light to you.
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WTH....I think it IS criminal to leave the girls alone in such a place.
Parental alienation and encouraging kids to run away from home IS abuse...and, child abuse Is criminal.....
I suggest that each of these events...especially, the ones that your daughter reports to you be given, in detail, to the children's therapist.....
I am not a lawyer, of course....but, I do know that a therapist's report has weight in court.....
They eye-witness of policemen does have weight in court, also.....
I still think that not reacting as much as possible (don't let him see you sweat principle).....is the way to go.....
There is a principle of behavior that says, basically.....when you stop responding to another's certain behavior....they will, at first, RATCHET UP the behavior....before, eventually, decelerating the behavior.......
WTH....stay determined, calm and persistent......
Enlist the support of every professional that you can garner....and, document , document, document......
This is really tough.....
dandylion
Parental alienation and encouraging kids to run away from home IS abuse...and, child abuse Is criminal.....
I suggest that each of these events...especially, the ones that your daughter reports to you be given, in detail, to the children's therapist.....
I am not a lawyer, of course....but, I do know that a therapist's report has weight in court.....
They eye-witness of policemen does have weight in court, also.....
I still think that not reacting as much as possible (don't let him see you sweat principle).....is the way to go.....
There is a principle of behavior that says, basically.....when you stop responding to another's certain behavior....they will, at first, RATCHET UP the behavior....before, eventually, decelerating the behavior.......
WTH....stay determined, calm and persistent......
Enlist the support of every professional that you can garner....and, document , document, document......
This is really tough.....
dandylion
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The stronger he senses you are becoming, I suspect the harder he will push. I am an optimist and believe this HAS to come back and bite him in the butt in multiple ways. But whatever happens, the best part is the stronger you get, the more you reinforce these boundaries, the more your girls see an example of what a parent should be. I know you are shaken, and I don't blame you one bit, but I also hope you are proud of yourself, because I am.
Sending you lots of positive vibes and strength this week. Bless that trooper for supporting you.
Sending you lots of positive vibes and strength this week. Bless that trooper for supporting you.
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Yes-couldn't say more than what others have said. Keep dovumenting, talk to a therapist and pursue criminal charges...I second hopefuls advice that you put some sort of tracking device on the kids...that will give you some comfort that at least you know where they are. I'm so sorry he's such a jerk and abusive to his own children to get back at you-I've been there, friend, and it hurts sooooo bad-it's not ok! You're doing great and I hope soon you post something positive about all this-like that he got run over by a bus. 
You are getting stronger and stronger...more hugs your way!
You are getting stronger and stronger...more hugs your way!
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He has started (as of the last two weeks) turning off the girls phone when they are with him so that a) I can not know find them in an emergency and b) they can not call me. He refuses to allow them contact with me when they are with him.
The therapist is told all of this. She has made umpteen million reports to Child Protective Services. xAH is interviewed, warned, given written outlines of appropriate parenting choices etc....
And I am told by them to continue to ensure they are safe and that they do not, as a rule, file on only ONE parent. If there is one parent ensuring their safety, the expectation is that I continue to police their safety.
If I had known his threat to leave them alone, and not gone to the school and he had in fact left them alone, we both could have been liable. Thus, why I showed up. He knew I would. And he was still there and not technically "gone"...
He spends a LOT of energy walking the fine line between overt criminal acts and the gray area.
The therapist will not be a witness in court unless subpeonaed. She will speak to a GAL though and I am seriously considering asking the court to appoint one.
The parenting plan and divorce are final but maybe it is time to look at re-opening it... I'm not sure...
I am just so tired of the girls being hurt by him.
DD10 called her father last night while home with me (therapist has advised her to tell him directly what she thinks rather than asking me to relay it for her).
So she called (on speaker phone) and he told her she was a liar and just like me and he told her he would be calling her teacher and the therapist to report what a "lying brat" she is.
At that point I ended the call.
It is just sheer insanity.
The therapist is told all of this. She has made umpteen million reports to Child Protective Services. xAH is interviewed, warned, given written outlines of appropriate parenting choices etc....
And I am told by them to continue to ensure they are safe and that they do not, as a rule, file on only ONE parent. If there is one parent ensuring their safety, the expectation is that I continue to police their safety.
If I had known his threat to leave them alone, and not gone to the school and he had in fact left them alone, we both could have been liable. Thus, why I showed up. He knew I would. And he was still there and not technically "gone"...
He spends a LOT of energy walking the fine line between overt criminal acts and the gray area.
The therapist will not be a witness in court unless subpeonaed. She will speak to a GAL though and I am seriously considering asking the court to appoint one.
The parenting plan and divorce are final but maybe it is time to look at re-opening it... I'm not sure...
I am just so tired of the girls being hurt by him.
DD10 called her father last night while home with me (therapist has advised her to tell him directly what she thinks rather than asking me to relay it for her).
So she called (on speaker phone) and he told her she was a liar and just like me and he told her he would be calling her teacher and the therapist to report what a "lying brat" she is.
At that point I ended the call.
It is just sheer insanity.
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^ sounds like what my ex told his daughter while we were still married when she started standing up for herself-screamed at her telling her what a horrible girl she was and that she was going to grow up just like mommy. I'm telling you this bc I understand the insanity. I think you just keep pushing ahead. Does your lawyer understand npd? If not, it may be a good idea to look for a lawyer that does-message he if you want more info.
Your children should not be with him, ever. He has no right to be with his kids-and I'm seriously disturbed nobody is stepping in.
Your children should not be with him, ever. He has no right to be with his kids-and I'm seriously disturbed nobody is stepping in.
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WTBH, have you discussed the possibility of recording all telephone calls with your attorney? The laws vary widely from state to state, so you shouldn't do it without first running it by your lawyer. But a therapist, a GAL, and a judge would all like to hear if a parent is telling a child she is a "lying brat."
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I am sorry wtbh, he truly is disgusting to terrorize his own children this way. Why haven't you used a GAL before, just out of curiosity? (I know your state is complicated & you had to tread carefully through your options.)
I also agree with the others that he's going to push harder, expecting to wear you down. He has NO point of reference for you holding your boundaries so ALL he knows is to keep pushing. He likely isn't even considering what may happen as a result.
IMO, with enough rope he WILL hang himself, but you have to be able to stay safe & sane until that time comes. Talking it out here is great. How about journaling it - even if it's just filling pages with fragmented verbal vomit that you immediately throw away, it can be cathartic to get those thoughts out.
You ARE getting stronger, I can "see" it even if you can't (yet). ((((((HUGS)))))
I also agree with the others that he's going to push harder, expecting to wear you down. He has NO point of reference for you holding your boundaries so ALL he knows is to keep pushing. He likely isn't even considering what may happen as a result.
IMO, with enough rope he WILL hang himself, but you have to be able to stay safe & sane until that time comes. Talking it out here is great. How about journaling it - even if it's just filling pages with fragmented verbal vomit that you immediately throw away, it can be cathartic to get those thoughts out.
You ARE getting stronger, I can "see" it even if you can't (yet). ((((((HUGS)))))
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WTH......I had just assumed that you already had a GAL. Yes, by all means, get one....
I understand that the therapist knows what has happened, so far...But, keep the flow of information going....the fact that he is unrelenting is important, in itself....
I think that the fact that he won't let them contact you is very significant!!
You need your own therapist to help you and support you through this!
dandylion
I understand that the therapist knows what has happened, so far...But, keep the flow of information going....the fact that he is unrelenting is important, in itself....
I think that the fact that he won't let them contact you is very significant!!
You need your own therapist to help you and support you through this!
dandylion
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I know in my state my atty said you each have one strike in the appointment of a GAL. So they appoint, and each side can make a strike and the will appoint a different one. Talk to your atty and find out who are the good ones, and how to make sure the one you get is a good one.
Here, they vary. There are a few who are terrible, others who do a really good job.
Just my .02 to add friend.
Here, they vary. There are a few who are terrible, others who do a really good job.
Just my .02 to add friend.
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The GAL is appointed early in the divorce process.
We never had one bc xAH refused to agree and both parties have to agree to do it voluntarily.
And prior to the hearing at which one would have been requested, the parenting plan was finalized, so no, we never had one.
We are through the process of the divorce now and it is over and the parenting plan is final. So I truly do not know the process to get one NOR what the GAL could do.
But I need to find out.
Yes, I can record. I just need to tell xAH I am doing so.
So of course, when I state "this will now be recorded" he stops.
My state SUCKS.
We never had one bc xAH refused to agree and both parties have to agree to do it voluntarily.
And prior to the hearing at which one would have been requested, the parenting plan was finalized, so no, we never had one.
We are through the process of the divorce now and it is over and the parenting plan is final. So I truly do not know the process to get one NOR what the GAL could do.
But I need to find out.
Yes, I can record. I just need to tell xAH I am doing so.
So of course, when I state "this will now be recorded" he stops.
My state SUCKS.
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Perhaps you can state at the very beginning of every call "this call will be recorded in its entirety." Do it every single time, right at the very beginning. Before you know it, it will be a habit for you, and sooner or later, he will drop his guard and make an ass out of himself. Like FS said, just stay consistent and he will end up with plenty of rope to hang himself.
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy
Yes, I can record. I just need to tell xAH I am doing so.
So of course, when I state "this will now be recorded" he stops.
So of course, when I state "this will now be recorded" he stops.
It's ironic that this whole time he's trying to terrorize you he's carrying around & feeding the very demon that will destroy him in the end.
I love W's idea of just stating that you will recording every conversation from here on out, every time. Even if he clams up & it doesn't help "out" him, you won't have to listen to his BS & get triggered.
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WTH.......I have to agree with the others who say that he will eventually hang himself with his o wn rope...
I am reminded of honeypig's favorite saying, in this regard....(she did steal it from me).....
"The sun don't shine on one dog's ass forever"
dandylion
I am reminded of honeypig's favorite saying, in this regard....(she did steal it from me).....
"The sun don't shine on one dog's ass forever"
dandylion
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